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Two MS announcements tonite & tomorrow - Page 2  

post #31 of 148
I think the "elite" should have came after the problems of 90nm chips have been fixed..This is just going to create more problems and them addressing the issue of it by saying "here is a new console that will still fail like the rest of them, but who cares take it anyways" isnt the types of revisions that should be made.
post #32 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Were customers clammoring for this though? I don't recall any outcry for a revised 360. Sure people wanted HDMI and a larger HDD, but neither requires a revision like this.


many users complained about white sticking out like a sore thumb in their home theater setups (though just as many liked the white)

many users complained about lack of hdmi

many users complained about lack of a larger hard drive.


these concerns were all answered, be it in a single bundle, but they were still answered, i dont see what your point is?

i dont care for the black, i dont NEED hdmi (VGA thank you) and i dont need a bigger drive, but i'm not complaining by ANY means. MS is listening to the fans, and i dont think they are ripping off anyone at that price point. a hard drive alone at the 179 mark is high, but it's not like you HAVE to own or buy one, i'd say the market for the larger drive is fairly small.



Quote:
Originally Posted by spinksjinx View Post

I think the "elite" should have came after the problems of 90nm chips have been fixed..This is just going to create more problems and them addressing the issue of it by saying "here is a new console that will still fail like the rest of them, but who cares take it anyways" isnt the types of revisions that should be made.

and while i agree that the problems should be addressed and the elite should include the 65nm processor, i will also say that I BELIEVE that NO more consoles should be put out with these problems or the 90nm chip, but that surely isnt going to happen.

almost any problem you can pick out about the elite you can also pick about the core/premium, so MS definitely has some issues to work out, but please, put the elite complaints to rest already.
post #33 of 148
Tell that to the number of gullible people that I read on various boards today. You would have thought this thing was more advanced. A lot of current owners DO seem interested, which is why I made the comment above.

You do realize there was a lot of interest from current owners don't you?
post #34 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd View Post

many users complained about white sticking out like a sore thumb in their home theater setups (though just as many liked the white)

many users complained about lack of hdmi

many users complained about lack of a larger hard drive.


these concerns were all answered, be it in a single bundle, but they were still answered, i dont see what your point is?

i dont care for the black, i dont NEED hdmi (VGA thank you) and i dont need a bigger drive, but i'm not complaining by ANY means. MS is listening to the fans, and i dont think they are ripping off anyone at that price point. a hard drive alone at the 179 mark is high, but it's not like you HAVE to own or buy one, i'd say the market for the larger drive is fairly small.

My "point" is that 2 of the 3 "problems" could have been remedied with retail accessory releases, NOT a new SKU. I would like the larger HDD, but that price, eek.

Just throwing my 2 cents in guys, no need to tear into me. I'm a fan, I'm on your side here.
post #35 of 148
i wasnt tearing into you, and those 2 out of 3 problems ARE rectified with retail accessories (though the black case is aftermarket)

so considering that, how does the elite affect us? it doesnt. at least not negatively.

new fresh ideas + new sku = new sales.... sales are always good, bigger platform fanbase = more/better games

i dont like the elite, and i'm not buying one, but i think it's a good thing both for microsoft and for us as gamers.
post #36 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd View Post

i wasnt tearing into you, and those 2 out of 3 problems ARE rectified with retail accessories (though the black case is aftermarket)

so considering that, how does the elite affect us? it doesnt.

Right, but how many new buyers is THIS gonna atract? I would imagine the 360 already has done well with this SKU's demographic. It just seems a bit, well, early, to be releasing this.
post #37 of 148
Why now for this? Why release this Elite now? What is their marketing/branding strategy for releasing a new Sku in April of 07? Was the demand becoming so big for this type of sku that it couldn't wait any longer? Just curious what you guys think.
post #38 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outlaw Torn View Post

Why now for this? Why release this Elite now? What is their marketing/branding strategy for releasing a new Sku in April of 07? Was the demand becoming so big for this type of sku that it couldn't wait any longer? Just curious what you guys think.


they fake the "leak" of the elite rumor, huge interest is sparked, sku is a go.

honestly i have no idea.
post #39 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

"Elite" moniker notwithstanding, the PS3 still holds the hardware advantage. You still get HDMI, a BR player and the ability to swap a hard disk of your choice for not so much more money. I am not sure adding a 120GB HDD would cost $180 to bring a BR equipped PS3 on par with a HD-DVD bundled XB360Elite.

About $90 for a bare 120gb/5400rpm notebook drive.

We could play the "add up the bill of materials to make them equal and see which costs more" or focus on why most of us buy consoles - which would be to play games.

360 1, PS3 0
post #40 of 148
what if the Elite is refurbed models with a bigger hdd... that would be way too hilarious.
post #41 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150 View Post

Well, duh. Those of us that already own the system aren't their target market.

I concur. If you do not already own an Xbox 360, this is a great deal.
post #42 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmatter View Post

We could play the "add up the bill of materials to make them equal and see which costs more" or focus on why most of us buy consoles - which would be to play games.



not to mention a larger game library, access to arcade/movie/tv, etc.


also i know plenty of people that spent 60-100 bucks for a $10 cable just because it was branded by sony or monster. i'd say a very small percentage of ps3 owners shop at monoprice. (suckers!)
post #43 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Tell that to the number of gullible people that I read on various boards today. You would have thought this thing was more advanced. A lot of current owners DO seem interested, which is why I made the comment above.

You do realize there was a lot of interest from current owners don't you?

Hang out with the fanboys, and you're going to get a fanboy perspective.

This is going to appeal to people who feel they need HDMI, and it's going to appeal to people who want to make use of the video service. From before day one, people bitched about the lack of HDMI--people who didn't even need HDMI bitched about it, as stupid as that may be. Now it's there. People complained about the hard drive size, even though most of us are just fine with 20GB. Now there's considerably more.

I really don't know what more MS could have done to satisfy people, and to bring those who are on the fence into a decision to purchase. The talk about the 65nm CPU is just stupid--if MS could make it happen, they would. Maybe some of you just aren't at all familiar with IBM and how they deal with their chip customers. What they do is provide a product design, then make a bunch of promises about improvements. For over a decade Apple was saddled with IBM's promises. The truth may very well be that MS's volume on a custom CPU isn't enough to drive IBM to get it done. It may also be that there just isn't the physical capacity to do it--whether that's an infrastructure issue or a cost issue isn't at all relevant.

Besides, it's not the CPU. Most all of the failures I read about from people who I believe have knowledge to speak to the cause point to inadequate cooling of the memory. But hey, it sure is fun to bitch about the number 90 and 65--even if most people have no idea what they're really talking about when they do it.

MS has done a pretty good job with the 360, and they're being responsive to what potential buyers indicate that they want. MS should be commended for that--and they're a company I usually find considerable fault with.
post #44 of 148
holy ****

5150 and i agree on something.
post #45 of 148
Only thing I would want it for is the HDMI. VGA is occupied by my PC and I really don't like the colors with the VGA. I know it's sharper, but color is off putting for me. Oh well, not going to plop down so much for a new machine. Wish I held out though. 80 bucks more for bigger hard drive and HDMI is worth it.
post #46 of 148
I wish it was not the 90 chip
post #47 of 148
I already paid $500 for my xbox 360. $400 in December 2005 when I purchased it and another $100 15 months later in March of 2007 when it bricked on me---and hey, I didn't even get a 120GB HDD or HDMI. Boo.
post #48 of 148
Does anyone know if they are offering a trade in option for current 360's?
post #49 of 148
For me this new x box doesnt excite me, I dont use the HDD for much other than demos and game saves so a 20 GB is plenty big enough. My lcd tv does 1080p through component and both my HDMI ports on my tv are being used, soooo this new model is useless for me. I'm sure some peeps will like it but at a cost increase I'm not sure it was the smartest move for them to make.
post #50 of 148
2 questions come to mind for me.

1) Can we buy the HDMI cable separate to use with our current 360?
2) The 1up article says DVD upconvert out of the box. Is that because of the HDMI cable? If so I'll stick with what I have and just buy the cable. Unless the changed the port on the back so current owners can't use the cable.
post #51 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaner1 View Post

2 questions come to mind for me.

1) Can we buy the HDMI cable separate to use with our current 360?
2) The 1up article says DVD upconvert out of the box. Is that because of the HDMI cable? If so I'll stick with what I have and just buy the cable. Unless the changed the port on the back so current owners can't use the cable.

1. No, it is a male to male HDMI cable, it doesn't have an adapter on one end like the current component/composite and VGA cables.

2. Yes, but if you want to get that with your current 360 you have to use VGA for DVDs. If your TV supports it, you can upconvert games to 1080p through component.
post #52 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty144 View Post

Does anyone know if they are offering a trade in option for current 360's?

They damn well should, but I highly doubt it! You know ol' Bill wouldn't do anything like that for his loyal customers
post #53 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyblazes View Post

1. No, it is a male to male HDMI cable, it doesn't have an adapter on one end like the current component/composite and VGA cables.

2. Yes, but if you want to get that with your current 360 you have to use VGA for DVDs. If your TV supports it, you can upconvert games to 1080p through component.

Thanks Blaze. What a let down, I was hoping to just score the cable but figured it wouldn't be that easy.
post #54 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Tell that to the number of gullible people that I read on various boards today. You would have thought this thing was more advanced. A lot of current owners DO seem interested, which is why I made the comment above.

You do realize there was a lot of interest from current owners don't you?

WHY?

Why would current owners be looking at the same system? Its the same machine with a HDMI output and larger HD. Its like buying a tiny PS2 when you already own the larger PS2, and being pissed that its still "JUST" a PS2.......

You can buy the premium, or you can spend an extra $80 bucks and get an extra 100gb on your hard drive and an HDMI output. THATS IT.

Hard for me to fathom why people are crying and/or angry about this announcement. Their add-on hard drive is overpriced...a 120gb seagate drive is less than $90 bucks at NewEgg...but their 20gb drive at $100 was a far worse raping than this drive is. If anything, this is a step in a better direction.

But I've read so many 'They should make the system $200, so I can afford one!" or "The Sony is still better cuz you get a BD drive, and that RULEZZ" crap here and on other forums it makes me wonder if people are just so desperate to have a new Console already they now have to fight about hardware revisions.
:P
post #55 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outlaw Torn View Post

Why now for this? Why release this Elite now? What is their marketing/branding strategy for releasing a new Sku in April of 07? Was the demand becoming so big for this type of sku that it couldn't wait any longer? Just curious what you guys think.

Because there is a price drop coming in the Fall of 07.

And the 65nm chips are probably coming mid-year. I wouldn't expect this to be a huge thing, though. No changes should be visible to the average consumer.

This way they keep the buzz going all year on the hardware side of things.

There was essentially a price drop over the holiday '06 season with all of those $50, $100 and $200 (thanks Microcenter!) off deals. They will do the same thing this year, but the drop will be permanent and on all SKUs, which should hit PS3 sales pretty well.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see HDMI come to all the 360 SKUs in April '08. You heard it hear first.
post #56 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty144 View Post

Does anyone know if they are offering a trade in option for current 360's?

No why would they...Revisions are made all the time...This is no different than Sony slimming down the ps2 and adding networking capabilities built in...Their are pros and cons of buying early or buying late...Revisions happen.
post #57 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150 View Post

I really don't know what more MS could have done to satisfy people, and to bring those who are on the fence into a decision to purchase. The talk about the 65nm CPU is just stupid--if MS could make it happen, they would. Maybe some of you just aren't at all familiar with IBM and how they deal with their chip customers. What they do is provide a product design, then make a bunch of promises about improvements. For over a decade Apple was saddled with IBM's promises. The truth may very well be that MS's volume on a custom CPU isn't enough to drive IBM to get it done. It may also be that there just isn't the physical capacity to do it--whether that's an infrastructure issue or a cost issue isn't at all relevant.

Besides, it's not the CPU. Most all of the failures I read about from people who I believe have knowledge to speak to the cause point to inadequate cooling of the memory. But hey, it sure is fun to bitch about the number 90 and 65--even if most people have no idea what they're really talking about when they do it.

Well said. Some on this forum act as though Microsoft had a choice between the 90nm and 65nm chips. They didn't. The 65nm doesn't exist yet in production silicon. It's still sampling, and months away from volume production.

It seems some would rather Microsoft wait until ~October when they can mass produce units using the cooler / cheaper 65nm silicon. Perhaps at the one year anniversary, Microsoft will drop the price on the Xbox360 lineup and incorporate the new chips. However, like 5150 says, I wouldn't expect that to eliminate the failures, most of which relate to the memory.
post #58 of 148
This deal is aimed at people looking at the Xbox 360 for the first time or someone looking to get a second Xbox360 for their 1080p tv. It does not have to appeal to existing users.
post #59 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

This deal is aimed at people looking at the Xbox 360 for the first time or someone looking to get a second Xbox360 for their 1080p tv. It does not have to appeal to existing users.

I disagree.

Most consumers won't pay $479 for an Xbox360 (or $499 for a PS3).

Mommy isn't going to buy a $479 Xbox360 for 9-year old Freddy. Mommy is going to buy the Xbox360 core she can get on sale for $249. At this price point, the Xbox360 Elite is clearly targeted at enthusiasts. The average customer doesn't even understand the benefits of HDMI.

A significant percentage of those paying $479 for the Xbox360 Elite will be existing owners and hardcore gamers that want to have the latest and greatest. These enthusiasts and hardcore gamers will pay whatever Microsoft asks for the new black design with a 120Gb hard drive and HDMI (to a point).

People seem to forget that Microsoft currently loses money on every Xbox360 sale. Microsoft lost $1.26 billion on the Xbox360 in FY 2006. But that's the way the console market works -- you lose money on the console sale, but make it back with the games. But Microsoft doesn't make that money back if existing Xbox360 owners replace their box with the Elite version. Hence, they've got to price it in a way that better reflects their cost.
Quote:


Building loads of Xbox 360s at an estimated $125 loss each puts a bit of a dent in a company's financials. Lazard Capital Markets analysts Colin Sebastian reminds us that once a really significant installed base is established for the Xbox 360, it's all about software sales.

Once all the "hardcore" Xbox360 fans have got their new Elite, Microsoft can reduce the price to a level that makes it an option for everyone else. Expect that to happen for the Christmas selling season when they make the move to 65nm silicon (~October).
post #60 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I disagree.

Most consumers won't pay $479 for an Xbox360 (or $499 for a PS3).




People seem to forget that Microsoft currently loses money on every Xbox360 sale. Microsoft lost $1.26 billion on the Xbox360 in FY 2006.

It is a good thing they have not stop making the Core or the Premium then. While I do not necessarily believe the report that said Microsoft was making $75.00 a console now I do not believe they are loosing as much money on the current Xbox360 as they were in the beginning.
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