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Two MS announcements tonite & tomorrow - Page 3  

post #61 of 148
3/28/07 at 7:56am
will people with a 2 year replacement plan at bestbuy be able to go in the store on 4/29/07 and exchange a premium for an elite?

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post #62 of 148
3/28/07 at 8:09am
Quote:


will people with a 2 year replacement plan at bestbuy be able to go in the store on 4/29/07 and exchange a premium for an elite?

No. The Elite is an entirely new model (SKU). It doesn't replace any existing models.

If your Xbox360 Premium goes bad for some reason, you get another Premium.
post #63 of 148
3/28/07 at 8:10am
Why would you be able to do that?

Some of you guys don't know much about marketing. The price points are great--just enough of an upgrade at each level to make a person buying the level below it seriously consider bumping up. That's the idea behind multiple SKUs.
post #64 of 148
3/28/07 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

At this price point, the Xbox360 Elite is clearly targeted at enthusiasts.

I'm hardly a gaming enthusiast, but I agree with what you're saying. I will more than likely get one as a new main system, and move the old one to the bedroom. And, as 5150 mentioned about the price points, for only $80 more than the premium I'll just go ahead and get the Elite. I guess it's nothing more than a new toy to buy, really.
post #65 of 148
3/28/07 at 8:44am
Getting lost in all this Elite bantar (which I love to read!) is the 2nd annoucement! Please post as soon as you hear.
post #66 of 148
3/28/07 at 8:51am
Quote:


Getting lost in all this Elite bantar (which I love to read!) is the 2nd annoucement! Please post as soon as you hear.

That announcement related to the Xbox360 Video Marketplace. More information here.

Snippet below:
Quote:


Running alongside the announcement of the Xbox 360 Elite, Microsoft also revealed the addition of multiple new agreements with A&E Network, ADV Films, National Geographic and TotalVid.com to bring TV series and movies to the U.S. Xbox Live Video Marketplace.

Microsoft is also partnering with Paramount Pictures to offer high definition feature films for download. Available titles will include Braveheart, Team America: World Police, World Trade Center and South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut. Also, for the first time, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment will be releasing its direct-to-video movies exclusively in high definition on Xbox Live simultaneous with their availability on DVD, starting with Sublime and later Babylon 5: The Lost Tales.
post #67 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150 View Post

Hang out with the fanboys, and you're going to get a fanboy perspective.

This is going to appeal to people who feel they need HDMI, and it's going to appeal to people who want to make use of the video service. From before day one, people bitched about the lack of HDMI--people who didn't even need HDMI bitched about it, as stupid as that may be. Now it's there. People complained about the hard drive size, even though most of us are just fine with 20GB. Now there's considerably more.

I really don't know what more MS could have done to satisfy people, and to bring those who are on the fence into a decision to purchase. The talk about the 65nm CPU is just stupid--if MS could make it happen, they would. Maybe some of you just aren't at all familiar with IBM and how they deal with their chip customers. What they do is provide a product design, then make a bunch of promises about improvements. For over a decade Apple was saddled with IBM's promises. The truth may very well be that MS's volume on a custom CPU isn't enough to drive IBM to get it done. It may also be that there just isn't the physical capacity to do it--whether that's an infrastructure issue or a cost issue isn't at all relevant.

Besides, it's not the CPU. Most all of the failures I read about from people who I believe have knowledge to speak to the cause point to inadequate cooling of the memory. But hey, it sure is fun to bitch about the number 90 and 65--even if most people have no idea what they're really talking about when they do it.

MS has done a pretty good job with the 360, and they're being responsive to what potential buyers indicate that they want. MS should be commended for that--and they're a company I usually find considerable fault with.

I don't hang out with fanboys and I am not one, it's just that a lot of people, just like with the revised DS, originally seemed to be interested in this, but from the looks of the thread at Gamingtrend.com, that has been squelched.
post #68 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:16am
here is the official Microsoft announcement

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...t.campSrc=Home
post #69 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I disagree.

Most consumers won't pay $479 for an Xbox360 (or $499 for a PS3).

Mommy isn't going to buy a $479 Xbox360 for 9-year old Freddy. Mommy is going to buy the Xbox360 core she can get on sale for $249. At this price point, the Xbox360 Elite is clearly targeted at enthusiasts. The average customer doesn't even understand the benefits of HDMI.

A significant percentage of those paying $479 for the Xbox360 Elite will be existing owners and hardcore gamers that want to have the latest and greatest. These enthusiasts and hardcore gamers will pay whatever Microsoft asks for the new black design with a 120Gb hard drive and HDMI (to a point).

People seem to forget that Microsoft currently loses money on every Xbox360 sale. Microsoft lost $1.26 billion on the Xbox360 in FY 2006. But that's the way the console market works -- you lose money on the console sale, but make it back with the games. But Microsoft doesn't make that money back if existing Xbox360 owners replace their box with the Elite version. Hence, they've got to price it in a way that better reflects their cost.

Once all the "hardcore" Xbox360 fans have got their new Elite, Microsoft can reduce the price to a level that makes it an option for everyone else. Expect that to happen for the Christmas selling season when they make the move to 65nm silicon (~October).

Finally someone gets it.
post #70 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150 View Post

Why would you be able to do that?

Some of you guys don't know much about marketing. The price points are great--just enough of an upgrade at each level to make a person buying the level below it seriously consider bumping up. That's the idea behind multiple SKUs.

Right. IMO, the problem is that is also brings the PS3 into play as well. For an extra $20 consumers can add a brand new HD disc drive as well.

Its a lot easier to justify not getting the PS3 when its a $100 more than the premium, but now that its possible to get a PS3 for only $20 more than a high-end 360 that decision is a lot tougher.
post #71 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Finally someone gets it.


true but Microsoft is already making a profit on the xbox 360's....

further more, i might get the elite but i am in no rush to.....
post #72 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post

It is a good thing they have not stop making the Core or the Premium then. While I do not necessarily believe the report that said Microsoft was making $75.00 a console now I do not believe they are loosing as much money on the current Xbox360 as they were in the beginning.

The R&D was paid for long ago we're nearly two years later and R&D returns are generally 6 months - there's nothing new of significant costs added to the Elite and the box runs the old formula of disposal razors and inkjets anyways. Those losses are not permanent factors once R&D is paid and Microsoft is a Cash Cow anyways so no tears for Microsoft is needed here - they are masters at making money! We heard these same lame arguments when Xbox was originated and here we are what 6 years later or longer and someone thinks they are losing money permanently?

No Way! Need we mention the Game Licensing - the LIVE Fee's, the Accessories and add-ons et al and future media streaming of HD Fee Based Content.
post #73 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboss View Post

Right. IMO, the problem is that is also brings the PS3 into play as well. For an extra $20 consumers can add a brand new HD disc drive as well.

But they also lose 100GB of hard drive space, an HDMI cable, an HD component cable, Live, Marketplace, soon to be IPTV, and all the games the the XBox 360 has.
post #74 of 148
3/28/07 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

The R&D was paid for long ago we're nearly two years later and R&D returns are generally 6 months - there's nothing new of significant costs added to the Elite and the box runs the old formula of disposal razors and inkjets anyways.

Actually, a new HANA digital video scaler chip needed to be designed and fabbed for the HDMI output. So there was significant work to make this new model.
post #75 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAVEN56706 View Post

true but Microsoft is already making a profit on the xbox 360's....

Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

The R&D was paid for long ago we're nearly two years later and R&D returns are generally 6 months - there's nothing new of significant costs added to the Elite and the box runs the old formula of disposal razors and inkjets anyways.

The $126 loss per Xbox360 Premium console sale, reported last fall, excluded R&D costs. The $126 loss per sale was based on the component costs.

As I noted in my previous post, the Microsoft's entertainment devision -- which receives all revenues from Xbox360 sales, accessories, game licensing, and Live subscriptions -- lost $1.26 billion in FY 2006. Those numbers are a bit inflated, because it includes $100 million spent on marketing for the Xbox360 launch.

In the most recent quarter, Microsoft's entertainment division -- which receives all revenues from Xbox360 sales, accessories, game licensing, and Live subscriptions -- lost $289 million. In its earnings conference, Microsoft said it hadn't been able to reduce Xbox360 costs as fast as it had hoped, but they expect to break even in 2007, thanks to reduced component pricing, increased licensing revenues, and new revenue sources (Video Marketplace).
post #76 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

As I noted in my previous post, the Microsoft's entertainment devision -- which receives all revenues from Xbox360 sales, accessories, game licensing, and Live subscriptions -- lost $1.26 billion in FY 2006. Those numbers are a bit inflated, because it includes $100 million spent on marketing for the Xbox360 launch.

In the most recent quarter, Microsoft's entertainment division -- which receives all revenues from Xbox360 sales, accessories, game licensing, and Live subscriptions -- lost $289 million. In its earnings conference, Microsoft said it hadn't been able to reduce Xbox360 costs as fast as it had hoped, but they expect to break even in 2007, thanks to reduced component pricing, increased licensing revenues, and new revenue sources (Video Marketplace).

Don't forget that the entertainment division includes the Zune, which isn't exactly making money hand over fist, either.
post #77 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post

Don't forget that the entertainment division includes the Zune, which isn't exactly making money hand over fist, either.

True, but the last quarter didn't include any Zune revenues.
post #78 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:46am
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23840

Possible Blu Ray drive for the 360 elite.
post #79 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback HDTV View Post

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23840

Possible Blu Ray drive for the 360 elite.

Ok, I know that most analysts are idiots, but that guy should get an award.
post #80 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

That announcement related to the Xbox360 Video Marketplace. More information here.

Snippet below:

That's not the second big announcement. They add partners left and right, two of which from that list have already been on the Marketplace (Warner and Paramount).

Yesterday was the Elite.

Today is...?
post #81 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post

Ok, I know that most analysts are idiots, but that guy should get an award.

For being the biggest idiot?

Man, I can't wait for 1080p television broadcasts over the next few years.
post #82 of 148
3/28/07 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post

But they also lose 100GB of hard drive space, an HDMI cable, an HD component cable, Live, Marketplace, soon to be IPTV, and all the games the the XBox 360 has.

$479.00 Elite for gaming + $199.00 HD player for movies + $70 Live subsciption for online = $749.00

$499.00 PS3 for gaming + $80.00 200GB Ext. HDD (buy.com) + $6 6ft HDMI (monoprice.com) + $0 Blu-ray player for movies + $0 Online Access = $586.00

thats as close to an apples to apples comparison as this will get. If the soft advantages of Live and Marketplace are worth $163.00 up front then you have an even race.
post #83 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:01am
ZUNE was EXPENSIVE
post #84 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post

For being the biggest idiot?

Man, I can't wait for 1080p television broadcasts over the next few years.

YES! Guess that wasn't clear.

Obviously people care about HD and you couldn't get HD out of an old XBox 360 because it didn't have HDMI, so sony rules.
post #85 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by todrigo View Post

$479.00 Elite for gaming + $199.00 HD player for movies + $70 Live subsciption for online = $749.00

$499.00 PS3 for gaming + $80.00 200GB Ext. HDD (buy.com) + $6 6ft HDMI (monoprice.com) + $0 Blu-ray player for movies + $0 Online Access = $586.00

thats as close to an apples to apples comparison as this will get. If the soft advantages of Live and Marketplace are worth $163.00 up front then you have an even race.

You can just stop right here...

$479.00

vs

$499.00

One you have a choice to add on.

The other, you don't.

I'd gladly pay for the Live service instead of settling for Sony's attempt at online gaming/marketplace.

Honestly, companies aside, I'm glad Microsoft didn't include a HD-DVD drive (or any Hi-Def player) as we don't know what's going to shake down. I'd laugh if Blu-Ray failed and all those PS3's become obsolete. HD-DVD could fail too, but at least my console would still work.
post #86 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:16am
Anyone paying $70 for 12-monh Live access, is overpaying. Period.
post #87 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post

But they also lose 100GB of hard drive space, an HDMI cable, an HD component cable, Live, Marketplace, soon to be IPTV, and all the games the the XBox 360 has.

IMO, the only thing you mentioned that the PS3 is sure not to have, besides the HDMI and component cables, which is inconsequential IMO since you can get an HDMI cable for $5 at Monoprice, is the 100GB of extra hard drive space. I think when given the choice people would prefer to pick-up the hi-def disc drive rather than an extra 100GB of space. The hi-def drive is a more marketable piece of hardware.
post #88 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by todrigo View Post

$479.00 Elite for gaming + $199.00 HD player for movies + $70 Live subsciption for online = $749.00

$499.00 PS3 for gaming + $80.00 200GB Ext. HDD (buy.com) + $6 6ft HDMI (monoprice.com) + $0 Blu-ray player for movies + $0 Online Access = $586.00

thats as close to an apples to apples comparison as this will get. If the soft advantages of Live and Marketplace are worth $163.00 up front then you have an even race.

Not everyone wants a HD disc player in their gaming console. I don't (just like I don't want or need wireless). I'll put one in my Media PC once the drives drop in price enough.

Live is $40 to $50 for 13 months. I don't know where $70 came from. Circuit City puts the 13 month cards on sale for $40 often.

And, frankly, you will have a hard time finding a 20GB PS3. Sony loses more money on each 20GB PS3 than they do on each 60GB PS3, so they make more 60GB versions.
post #89 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius74 View Post

Anyone paying $70 for 12-monh Live access, is overpaying. Period.

I thought I was the only one who noticed. $70 for live? Gimme a break.
post #90 of 148
3/28/07 at 11:38am
The most dramatic announcement Microsoft could make, imo, is a dual-tuner CableCard add-on (based on ATI OCUR) for the Xbox360 Elite.

That would allow the Xbox360 Elite to function as a full-fledged DVR for any cable provider.
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