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Buttkicker Amp with subwoofer and LFE?

post #1 of 19
3/29/07 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Hi,
My friend and I are building a couple of sonotube subs with RL-P15s in them. My friend wants to power his with the Buttkicker amp. He's found one for sale with an LFE (shaker) and he wants to use it and the subwoofer at the same time hooked up to the amp. Impedance is fine as both are 4 ohms so he'll wire them in parallel to get a 2 ohm load. My concern is that the levels of the two might not line up well as I'm not sure how sensitive the LFE will be. I'm concerned that the shaker could be really "loud" or really "quiet" compared with the sub. Obviously it has no real volume, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Has anyone hooked them up like this? My friend's on a tight budget so it would be a waste to get the LFE and then have it no function optimally.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 19
3/29/07 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

Hi,
My friend and I are building a couple of sonotube subs with RL-P15s in them. My friend wants to power his with the Buttkicker amp. He's found one for sale with an LFE (shaker) and he wants to use it and the subwoofer at the same time hooked up to the amp. Impedence is fine as both are 4 ohms so he'll wire them in parallel to get a 2 ohm load. My concern is that the levels of the two might not line up well as I'm not sure how sensitive the LFE will be. I'm concerned that the shaker could be really "loud" or really "quiet" compared with the sub. Obviously it has no real volume, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Has anyone hooked them up like this? My friend's on a tight budget so it would be a waste to get the LFE and then have it no function optimally.

Thanks!


I tried that approach with Aura shakers as an experiemnt and it worked well. However, that was some happenstance that it did. The only way to know is to try it!
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post #3 of 19
3/29/07 at 3:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I tried that approach with Aura shakers as an experiemnt and it worked well. However, that was some happenstance that it did. The only way to know is to try it!

I was hoping some else had tried it so that he doesn't have to on his dollar. Thanks for the info.
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post #4 of 19
3/29/07 at 4:28pm
I use the buttkicker amp to power 2 4 ohm subs and a second BK amp to power 2 shakers. The biggest problem I see with powering both a sub and shaker with one amp, is that you only have one level, and the level that you want to set the subwoofer at is very likely to be different than the buttkicker level. In my system the shakers are set much lower than the subs.
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post #5 of 19
3/29/07 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I use the buttkicker amp to power 2 4 ohm subs and a second BK amp to power 2 shakers. The biggest problem I see with powering both a sub and shaker with one amp, is that you only have one level, and the level that you want to set the subwoofer at is very likely to be different than the buttkicker level. In my system the shakers are set much lower than the subs.

That's the problem I was thinking of. If the required levels are quite different then that can be a problem. Ideally a different amp for each is obviously optimal, but I'm wondering if one amp for both is at least close as far as levels go.
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post #6 of 19
3/29/07 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

That's the problem I was thinking of. If the required levels are quite different then that can be a problem. Ideally a different amp for each is obviously optimal, but I'm wondering if one amp for both is at least close as far as levels go.

That's why a said happenstance. There are too many variables there to even really guess.

It depends on how the shakers are mounted, the efficiency of the sub, how things are EQed (if at all), gain required for callibrated sub, etc. etc.
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post #7 of 19
3/29/07 at 7:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

That's why a said happenstance. There are too many variables there to even really guess.

It depends on how the shakers are mounted, the efficiency of the sub, how things are EQed (if at all), gain required for callibrated sub, etc. etc.

Well, I'm just wondering if they are at all close. The Buttkicker website lists 400 W min/1500 W max for the shaker. I'm not really familiar with a minimum power which has led me to believe that it requires a lot of power to get moving.
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post #8 of 19
3/29/07 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

Well, I'm just wondering if they are at all close. The Buttkicker website lists 400 W min/1500 W max for the shaker. I'm not really familiar with a minimum power which has led me to believe that it requires a lot of power to get moving.

They are power hungry, that is true.

There is a HUGE range you are dealing with there. It is literally almost impossible to tell unless you try it yourself. Even if someone else tried it, the odds of them having he same sub in the same room size callibrated to the same level with shakers mounted in the same place on the same chairs that likes the same amount of shaking is about nil....see what I mean here?

That is kind of like saying, if I mount the same brake pads on my car that you are using, will my car have the same stopping distance as yours? You are talking about how many variables here, driver, tires, weight, reaction time, surface conditions, etc., etc.
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post #9 of 19
3/29/07 at 8:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

They are power hungry, that is true.

There is a HUGE range you are dealing with there. It is literally almost impossible to tell unless you try it yourself. Even if someone else tried it, the odds of them having he same sub in the same room size callibrated to the same level with shakers mounted in the same place on the same chairs that likes the same amount of shaking is about nil....see what I mean here?

That is kind of like saying, if I mount the same brake pads on my car that you are using, will my car have the same stopping distance as yours? You are talking about how many variables here, driver, tires, weight, reaction time, surface conditions, etc., etc.

Yes, but if someone has tried it and could say what sub they used and gave some other information it would be reasonable. For instance, I can say that this is a SoundSplinter RL-P 15 in a 260 L sonotube tuned to 14 Hz, and I could give the specs of the room.

In the car analogy, if the cars were similar enough and we disregard the driver (as you would in any car component test) you could get a general idea.

Regardless, I'm looking for a general idea. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
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post #10 of 19
3/30/07 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

Yes, but if someone has tried it and could say what sub they used and gave some other information it would be reasonable. For instance, I can say that this is a SoundSplinter RL-P 15 in a 260 L sonotube tuned to 14 Hz, and I could give the specs of the room.

In the car analogy, if the cars were similar enough and we disregard the driver (as you would in any car component test) you could get a general idea.

Regardless, I'm looking for a general idea. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

There is no big deal at all, you are simply asking something that there is no right answer for. It will funtion, but it could be way too weak or way too strong, nobody could possibly know for sure.
I am just trying to help here and shed some light on this for you based on my experiences and those of others. I am not trying to offend you and am sorry if I did. My situation worked temporarily, but eventually I wanted more shaking and different crossover point which requires another dedicated amp.

Like with the car analogy, with the furniture type/size/construction and shaker mounting locations, we have different size rotors, tires, different surface conditions, as well as different measurement devices.

Even if you have identical subwoofers, how the shakers are mounted and to what type of furniture greatly affects how well and efficiently they shake. Each type of chair has different springs/wires/frames that make up the suspension for the seating position and different attachment scenarios within. I mounted my shakers in one location and things were barely perceptible, moving it 6 inches further up the frame shook violently causing me to have to turn down the gain. Eveyone's threshold for how much shaking they want, like , or need is different as well.

The bottom line is, like it or not, there simply is no way to tell unless you try it. It will definitely work to some degree, there is no question there, but you won't know if it works to your satisfaction without conducting the experiment. In addition, the system may change at some point down the road anyway making the levels totally different.

Good luck, I hope it works and all will be well....
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post #11 of 19
3/30/07 at 9:33am
Yeesh...you can't please everyone these days I guess..
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post #12 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:05am
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Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Yeesh...you can't please everyone these days I guess..

Nope!
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post #13 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Yeesh...you can't please everyone these days I guess..

When could you?
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post #14 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

There is no big deal at all, you are simply asking something that there is no right answer for. It will funtion, but it could be way too weak or way too strong, nobody could possibly know for sure.
I am just trying to help here and shed some light on this for you based on my experiences and those of others. I am not trying to offend you and am sorry if I did. My situation worked temporarily, but eventually I wanted more shaking and different crossover point which requires another dedicated amp.

Like with the car analogy, with the furniture type/size/construction and shaker mounting locations, we have different size rotors, tires, different surface conditions, as well as different measurement devices.

Even if you have identical subwoofers, how the shakers are mounted and to what type of furniture greatly affects how well and efficiently they shake. Each type of chair has different springs/wires/frames that make up the suspension for the seating position and different attachment scenarios within. I mounted my shakers in one location and things were barely perceptible, moving it 6 inches further up the frame shook violently causing me to have to turn down the gain. Eveyone's threshold for how much shaking they want, like , or need is different as well.

The bottom line is, like it or not, there simply is no way to tell unless you try it. It will definitely work to some degree, there is no question there, but you won't know if it works to your satisfaction without conducting the experiment. In addition, the system may change at some point down the road anyway making the levels totally different.

Good luck, I hope it works and all will be well....

Ok, thanks for that info, i didn't know that they were so sensitive to the type of chair or location on them.
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post #15 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

Ok, thanks for that info, i didn't know that they were so sensitive to the type of chair or location on them.

No problem, I hope it works out satisfactorily for him. I have a feeling (no pun intended) that he will have to seperate them out though. Either way, there is some fun to be had in just trying it...
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post #16 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
I'll probably recommend that he don't get the LFE if it is such a big unknown. He may want to experiment though.
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post #17 of 19
3/30/07 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

I'll probably recommend that he don't get the LFE if it is such a big unknown. He may want to experiment though.

I am not sure if maybe he could use some type of attenuator, like those found in a wall mounted volume control or something. Something like that might be a way to effectivle turn down the signal to the shaker, of course that is only if it is too high and not too low.
In the end though, after all the hassles it is probably just easier to score a used BKA from ebay for $150 or thereabouts and be done with it.
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post #18 of 19
3/30/07 at 3:02pm
I don't think they make attenuators that can handle that kind of power. I looked forever to find some that would handle 200 watts and finally found some from Phoenix Gold
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post #19 of 19
3/30/07 at 3:55pm
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Originally Posted by graniteguy View Post

I don't think they make attenuators that can handle that kind of power. I looked forever to find some that would handle 200 watts and finally found some from Phoenix Gold

Ya, I was afraid of that. I had not seen any in some time, let alone read the specs. I just I would throw that out there as a remote possibility....bummer.
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