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2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 483

post #14461 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

I have a HLT5089s and a few months ago I noticed a black dot in the upper right corner. I thought something was on the screen, mirror or lens so, I opened the port hole but nothing was there. I figured it was a dead pixel and since I could see it from my seating position, unless I really looked for it, I just let it go. Well, tonight I have noticed 2 new black dots, one in the upper left and the other close to the middle of the screen. I see not white dots at all but, are black dots signs of a bad DLP chip as well? If so, I may need to go ahead and order one to have in case it starts getting worse.

I've never had any other problems with this set, except replacing a bad fan earlier this year, so I don't think I'd qualify under the settlement. This set is actually a replacement I got for my HLP model when a color wheel went bad and the part was on back order for over 3 months, Samsung finally just gave me this one, which I love to this day. These dots are going to start to annoy real soon if it gets worse. I was hoping to drag a couple more years out of this set. Our 7 year old PC is on its last leg and needs to be replaced and I don't think I can afford a new PC an TV in the same year.

Your statement that "so I don't think I'd qualify under the settlement." is upsetting. It means that the window for filing a claim is rapidly closing and you and others do not understand the Settlement Agreement. If you had read my post #14470, four posts above yours, and followed the instructions you would have already filed a claim. If your set's model is covered and it is in the US then you qualify PERIOD.

This thread is too long to summarize the current Settlement situation. If you have a covered TV in the US then you have two choices:

1) Wait for the claim period to expire soon.

2) File a claim now. Don't wait for things to get worse. You have slow turn on symptom now. Under the Settlement terms you don't need a symptom but saying that is good enough to start the process. If you want to check the capacitors on the Sub-Power board it is easy enough. Understand that swollen tops are not required to qualify for replacement. You will read about checking the Sub-Power board when you start reading at post #14303 http://www.avsforum.com/t/827799/2007-samsung-led-owners-thread-hlt-xx87-89s/14300_100#post_23159257 .

Post your experience here to help others. Good Luck!

P.S. You do have a DLP problem but deal with the Settlement claim first. You will learn about DLP replacement while you are reading about the Settlement.
Edited by JRWalker - 6/13/13 at 4:57am
post #14462 of 14848
I wasn't sure I should do any of that because my TV starts up just fine, no slower or faster then the day I got it. Do you suggest calling Samsung or just filling that form out and mailing it in?

All the dates confuse me on the claim form because they are all from 2012 and I suck at reading lawyer speak. Guess I'll just call and see what happens. Wish I knew my serial number so I could call while I'm at work (more free time here with 3 kids at home).
post #14463 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

I wasn't sure I should do any of that because my TV starts up just fine, no slower or faster then the day I got it. Do you suggest calling Samsung or just filling that form out and mailing it in?

All the dates confuse me on the claim form because they are all from 2012 and I suck at reading lawyer speak. Guess I'll just call and see what happens. Wish I knew my serial number so I could call while I'm at work (more free time here with 3 kids at home).

From Samsung Website with my italic:

"Model And Serial Number Location
Your Samsung TV will have your model and serial number located in two places on it.

One place will be on the back of the TV on a large sticker with information on it such as the model number, serial number, AC power consumption, date of manufacture, warnings, and UPC.

The second will be a smaller sticker located on the right side edge (as you face the TV) of the TV and will list the model number, serial number, and version number. Write it all down they will ask for all of it and when and where you bought the set. Guess is good enough on the latter. The model number qualifies you under the settlement.

If you are just looking for the model and serial number we recommend looking on the sticker on the right side edge . This sticker is easier to access, has larger text than the one on the back, and should still be visible even if your TV is wall mounted."

Forget the form it is much easier to call 1- 888-899-7602 . Be sure to have all the information on the side sticker, they will ask for it. Fast and Slow are relative terms when you say slow to turn on they have something to fill in the symptom. If you want to check the Sub-Power board behind the access panel, held on with one screw, on the other side of the TV then swollen capacitor tops would do also. But, capacitors without swollen tops can be bad too. ALL sets covered in the Settlement need to have their capacitors replaced before the claim period expires.
post #14464 of 14848
Guess I'll call this evening and see what happens, will also open the side panel and take a look. I replaced all 3 fans in my TV earlier this year and even had to remove the sub power board but, I didn't pay attention to what the capacitors looked like. Still though, my bigest concern right now is the 3 black dots that have appeared (no white ones yet) and replacing the capacitors will not fix that. At the very least, Samsung may replace those capacitors, then I will replace the DLP chip if the problem worsens and I get a few more years out of this TV. Best case, I get offered a good deal on an out-of-warranty replacement TV now and then have to decide to pay the fee or save money and just replace the DLP chip.

I did go back and read everything starting from your link, thanks to everyone providing information about the settlement. Haven't looked at this thread for months and would have never know. Would have sucked to have a capacitor problem down the road, come here and realize I was to late because the settlement had expired.
post #14465 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Would have sucked to have a capacitor problem down the road, come here and realize I was to late because the settlement had expired.

Very true. That is exactly why I will unsubscribe from this thread when the claim submission period expires. When you file your claim, please ask what the last date that Samsung will accept claims under the Settlement Agreement. That would be good information to post here.
post #14466 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Guess I'll call this evening and see what happens, will also open the side panel and take a look. I replaced all 3 fans in my TV earlier this year and even had to remove the sub power board but, I didn't pay attention to what the capacitors looked like. Still though, my bigest concern right now is the 3 black dots that have appeared (no white ones yet) and replacing the capacitors will not fix that. At the very least, Samsung may replace those capacitors, then I will replace the DLP chip if the problem worsens and I get a few more years out of this TV. Best case, I get offered a good deal on an out-of-warranty replacement TV now and then have to decide to pay the fee or save money and just replace the DLP chip.

I did go back and read everything starting from your link, thanks to everyone providing information about the settlement. Haven't looked at this thread for months and would have never know. Would have sucked to have a capacitor problem down the road, come here and realize I was to late because the settlement had expired.

Your DLP chip will most likely go downhill fast. Once the dots come, they usually multiply very rapidly. The fix is fairly easy and worth the cost. As for pursuing the capacitor settlement, that's a separate decision you have to make if your current capacitors are fine.
post #14467 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post



I strongly disagree with Justlou. All of the sets covered by the Settlement Agreement were built with defective capacitors. It is not a matter of if they will fail but when you will realize that they are failing. File a claim now and have them replaced before it is too late. Why spend money on a DLP chip when you may not be keeping the set?

Speaking for myself, since my caps are fine I won't be dealing with Samsung. Only a tiny percentage of owners are having cap issues, and most will never see the issue before their set reaches the end of its life.. If the time ever comes where they need to be replaced, I'll do it myself. I've recapped radios from the 1930's. Recapping the TV will take me about 30 minutes, and only cost a few $'s. JMO, YMMV.
post #14468 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

These caps have cost electronic manufacturers more than a billion dollars. See previous post for some costs by manufacturer. Please site your source for "Only a tiny percentage of owners are having cap issues". I would not argue with the statement "Only a few percentage of owners realize that they have a capacitor problem."

You have posted about bad previous experience with Samsung that keeps your from dealing with them again. The only way to determine if a capacitor is good is to remove it from the circuit and test it. No visual inspection can determine if caps are good.

My advice costs owners nothing but their time. Yours is a gamble with the odds against the owners.

Having the work done after the Settlement expires with cost hundreds of dollars. What will you charge and how far will you travel to fix the sets of those who follow your advice?

I still have no idea what your problem is, or what advice you're even talking about. When did I ever tell/recommend to anyone that they don't get their caps changed?? I said two things. #1, if you don't have any issues then you have to decide whether you want to pursue the cap settlement or not. And #2, I'm not getting mine changed.
Edited by justlou - 6/13/13 at 1:38pm
post #14469 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Please site your source for "Only a tiny percentage of owners are having cap issues".

Samsung's statement: "Based on the most current data available, we can confirm that only a small percentage-approximately 1%- of all TVs sold in the US during those three years could exhibit the faulty-capacitor problem. Although the problem affects a relatively small percentage of TVs, Samsung has decided to extend the warranty for 18 months on this part in more than 7.5 million customers' TVs in order to ensure that any customer who has the problem will continue to receive a free-of-charge repair. '
post #14470 of 14848
One last question, can a tech come out and refuse to do the repair because he sees on signs of damage and the TV is functioning properly?
post #14471 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Justlou,

You posts muddy the water. Everyone with a set covered by the Settlement was built with bad capacitors that should be replaced and Samsung will do it without cost to the owner. Why would anyone not have that done, except if they have a problem dealing with Samsung? How can anyone know when their capacitors will fail because even visual inspection is not conclusive?

Bottom line is: If your set is covered by the settlement then you have a capacitor problem. You are either aware of now or will be in the future. Have them replaced for free now or pay later.

P.S. The operative word in the Samsung quote is "exhibit".

There is nothing wrong with your advice. It's sound. But again, speaking only for myself, if there is only a 1% chance my TV will "exhibit" an issue which hasn't occurred in almost 6 years and 15,000 hours of usage, I'm not going to worry about it.

BTW, for future reference for anyone that doesn't get their TV fixed by Samsung before the suit ends and has a problem, this site sells a self repair kit for $20. Samsung TV Repair Kit
post #14472 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

One last question, can a tech come out and refuse to do the repair because he sees on signs of damage and the TV is functioning properly?

No, but tell them "sometimes the TV takes a long time to come on" so they don't jerk you around. Trust me, some of these repair shops will go out of their way to not have to fix it.
post #14473 of 14848
Well, blow me down! Got home from work, opened the side panel and this is what I saw (I removed to cable to see the capacitors better):



Needless to say, I'm definitely calling now, all five are damaged on the sub power board and even show signs of leaking.

Thanks again to everyone with all the info in this thread. I would have never checked and just chalked it up to the TV being at the end of its life.
post #14474 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Well, blow me down! Got home from work, opened the side panel and this is what I saw (I removed to cable to see the capacitors better):

Needless to say, I'm definitely calling now, all five are damaged on the sub power board and even show signs of leaking.

Thanks again to everyone with all the info in this thread. I would have never checked and just chalked it up to the TV being at the end of its life.

I'm not surprised. Your TV did not exhibit a problem but like cancer it has been growing inside your TV.

P.S. There are 6 caps on the Sub-Power board see http://www.avsforum.com/t/827799/2007-samsung-led-owners-thread-hlt-xx87-89s/14400_100#post_23261181 for all the bad caps in your TV. Justlou's link says the total is 19 caps in the TV.
Edited by JRWalker - 6/13/13 at 3:24pm
post #14475 of 14848
The sixth one looked fine

Just got of the phone with SEA and I don't know if it is there typical spiel but, she made a point that they would only replace the capacitors on both boards and nothing else. Maybe stock isn't a problem anymore or maybe that is what they always say. I did have to agree that if the tech determines that my TV's problems are not related to the capacitor issue that I would be responsible for the repair cost. I should get a call from the tech in 1 or 2 business days.

She also said that the settlement claim ends on Sept. 2, 2013.
post #14476 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post


P.S. There are 6 caps on the Sub-Power board see http://www.avsforum.com/t/827799/2007-samsung-led-owners-thread-hlt-xx87-89s/14400_100#post_23261181 for all the bad caps in your TV. Justlou's link says the total is 19 caps in the TV.

There could be less than 19 caps depending on the model. They sell that repair kit to work with many different Samsung models.
post #14477 of 14848
I called Samsung yesterday and they set up a service call for next Wednesday. They told me that the tech would replace the capacitors and if the power board was bad - they would replace that as well. She read the terms of the capacitor settlement stating that they would only cover the two boards and had me agree to that.

Fast forward to today - I came home and the picture was gone (I've been leaving it on 24/7 so I wouldn't have to re-start it). Sound was still on. Tried re-starting it with no luck. I'm curious what the tech will tell me if he shows up Wednesday.

I pulled the cover off and found couple swollen capacitors.



I don't have the funds for a new set this weekend, so I engineered out of necessity and taped some poster board to the screen and used the 720P DLP projector from my office for a temporary set-up! The black levels are horrible, but since I only have one TV in my house it will do for a little while smile.gif





I may have to go to a craft store to get a larger 'screen' to hold me over until Wednesday
post #14478 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepinmaxx View Post

I called Samsung yesterday and they set up a service call for next Wednesday. They told me that the tech would replace the capacitors and if the power board was bad - they would replace that as well. She read the terms of the capacitor settlement stating that they would only cover the two boards and had me agree to that.

Fast forward to today - I came home and the picture was gone (I've been leaving it on 24/7 so I wouldn't have to re-start it). Sound was still on. Tried re-starting it with no luck. I'm curious what the tech will tell me if he shows up Wednesday.

I pulled the cover off and found couple swollen capacitors.

Holy cow. You'll want to vacuum all that dust out before you get it fixed. Otherwise you'll be replacing the red LED soon too! ...Good luck Wednesday.
post #14479 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by justlou View Post

Samsung's statement: "Based on the most current data available, we can confirm that only a small percentage-approximately 1%- of all TVs sold in the US during those three years could exhibit the faulty-capacitor problem. Although the problem affects a relatively small percentage of TVs, Samsung has decided to extend the warranty for 18 months on this part in more than 7.5 million customers' TVs in order to ensure that any customer who has the problem will continue to receive a free-of-charge repair. '

this sounds like something they are allowed to claim, based on the settlement, to cover their ass

i'm leaving town next week, but when i get back i will be calling to set up an appointment
post #14480 of 14848
Just set up my appointment for next Friday.
Haven't really had symptons, but knowing those caps could go out at any time, it seeemed best to get them taken care of.
I enjoy the set a whole lot and don't really have any complaints, so if I can extend its usefulness that much longer, the better.
I'll report back on how it goes.

CFC
post #14481 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFC View Post

Just set up my appointment for next Friday.
Haven't really had symptons, but knowing those caps could go out at any time, it seeemed best to get them taken care of.
I enjoy the set a whole lot and don't really have any complaints, so if I can extend its usefulness that much longer, the better.
I'll report back on how it goes.

CFC

Good decision. It is what a "reasonable man" would do. There are two additional reasons for replacing the caps besides those mentioned recently.

1) Failing caps can damage down stream components.

2) When a cap pops, if the electrolyte drips on the circuit board (as it could in the Power Board but not the Sub-Power board) it can cause an electrical fire on the circuit board. See second picture with caption “Results of fire on a printed circuit board, caused by leaked electrolyte which short-circuited conductors carrying power” here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

Either of the above would cause circuit board damage that can not be fixed by replacing capacitors and there are no replacement boards available.

Circuit boards are intentionally made of a material that is not combustible. It is impossible for a fire on a circuit board to ignite the circuit board. The electrolyte used in capacitors is combustible. However, the quantity of electrolyte in small and only a portion of it is ejected when a cap pops. If the electrolyte burns it produces smoke and flames but the flames produced during the very short burning time have no chance of beginning to even melt the TV’s plastic case above the power board and there is not near the required heat produced to cause the plastic to reach its kindling temperature.

Years ago I had a Dell motherboard with some of the same bad caps used by Samsung. One night I was defragging the computer’s hard drive when a cap popped. We were in bed when the smoke set off one of our smoke detectors. It scared the kids and caused a bad smell in the room for quite a while even after I moved the computer outside. Dell replaced my computer as it did for others. The damage to the motherboard looked only a little worse than the linked picture above. Nothing worse would happen in a TV.

My point, that some may have been missed in the first version of this post, is that damage to a TV circuit board is possible. It can even happen during a cap replacement by an Authorized Samsung tech or DIYer. The difference is that if a DIYer damages an irreplaceable board then the TV is junk.

Update:
Bold added for future readers and those upset by my use of the word fire in the first version of this post. Nothing has been removed from this post.
Edited by JRWalker - 6/20/13 at 1:50pm
post #14482 of 14848
The sky is falling.
post #14483 of 14848
The service company wants some details about my symptoms and since I don't really have any symptoms, I don't know what to tell them. I told her that it is slow to start-up at times but she asked how long and I didn't know what to say. I told her that after researching the problem I opened the side panel and have 5 busted capacitors and some are starting to leak. I guess that satisfied her because she stopped pressing for more details but, in case the tech ask on Wednesday, how long has some of your sets taken to come on. Mine takes about 15-20 seconds and it kind of flashes and buzzes 3 times before displaying an image. It has always done this from day one as far as I can remember so, I don't think it is out of the ordinary. I just don't want the tech to get here and see the TV working and not actually try and replace the capacitors or boards.
Edited by rolltide1017 - 6/14/13 at 11:24am
post #14484 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

The service company is wants some details about my symptoms and since I don't really have any symptoms, I don't know what to tell them. I told her that it is slow to start-up at times but she asked how long and I didn't know what to say. I told her that after researching the problem I opened the side panel and have 5 busted capacitors and some are starting to leak. I guess that satisfied her because she stopped pressing for more details but, in case the tech ask on Wednesday, how long has some of your set taken to come on. Mine takes about 15-20 seconds and it kind of flashes and buzzes 3 times before displaying an image. It has always done this from day one as far as I can remember so I don't think it is out of the ordinary. I just don't want the tech to get here and see the TV working and not actually try and replace the capacitors or boards.

Their techs can be real a-holes, but I doubt after seeing what your caps look like they can deny your repair. ...Then again, I had a broken HDMI input, and their tech tried to claim I somehow broke it.
post #14485 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

The service company wants some details about my symptoms and since I don't really have any symptoms, I don't know what to tell them. I told her that it is slow to start-up at times but she asked how long and I didn't know what to say. I told her that after researching the problem I opened the side panel and have 5 busted capacitors and some are starting to leak. I guess that satisfied her because she stopped pressing for more details but, in case the tech ask on Wednesday, how long has some of your sets taken to come on. Mine takes about 15-20 seconds and it kind of flashes and buzzes 3 times before displaying an image. It has always done this from day one as far as I can remember so, I don't think it is out of the ordinary. I just don't want the tech to get here and see the TV working and not actually try and replace the capacitors or boards.

It varied based on how long the set was off. If the TV was on recently it came on right away. If off for a long time had to power off and on to get a picture. Sometimes had to unplug set and wait an hour before it would work. Intermittent problems are like that. BTW: No symptoms are required under the Settlement Agreement to have ALL caps replaced. They are pushing the line on breaching the letter and spirit of the agreement.

Note that it is unlikely that the tech understands the Settlement Agreement. If he gives you any grief call the Settlement Agreement phone number and let the Samsung reps explain it to him. Samsung is the one paying for the service call so he will comply.
Edited by JRWalker - 6/14/13 at 1:08pm
post #14486 of 14848
lou you are quite a pessimist.
jr is right, caps failing is bad. it can seriously ruin your day. and for the record, the dust inside my computer could catch on fire too, so just saying it can happen doesn't say much.

at the end of the day, there's 3 options:
1. call SEA and have them fix the caps pre-emptively. as has been said before, you do NOT need to exhibit signs of cap failure for someone to come out. SEA will only do the sub and main board caps. if a tech refuses to do it, SEA -- generally -- will put up a small fight, then when you call them on it, will discipline the tech and apologize for the mistake. there is no charge to you. there is no risk to you. BUT, you can only do this for another 4 months or so.
2. wait until the caps go and you actually have a problem. If it is before -- I THINK -- Nov 1, have SEA do it (see #1). BUT if it's past 11/1, you're on your own and YOU eat the cost ($200-300), do it yourself ($20?), or see 3.
3. the problem is so bad it ruins your boards (which could happen) and you HAVE to junk it. there are no replacement boards made, period
post #14487 of 14848
Quote:
Originally Posted by yudkib View Post

lou you are quite a pessimist.

I'm the "pessimist"? confused.gif

I'm not the one laying out the doomsday scenarios of TV's catching fire due to not getting your caps changed, or blowing up your TV from cleaning out the dust yourself. Which until I suggested it, was the most recommended form of preventive maintenance in this forum. But now all of a sudden it's very dangerous, and requires a technician. Do you see where this is going?
Edited by justlou - 6/14/13 at 2:00pm
post #14488 of 14848
Got a call back from the service shop, informing me that in order to replace all the caps, they'd need to order a replacement board, which is no longer available. Appointment is canceled for now.
They're contacting Samsung, and will get back to me based on what they're told.
From reading the thread, I should expect that they'll offer some money if I want to get rid of the set? or offer replacement devices at "reduced" costs?
I suppose I could decline either option and just keep the set as well.

I'll wait to find out how it goes

CFC
post #14489 of 14848
techs CANNOT deny a repair. they bill SEA for it but leave so they don't have to do any work. SEA takes this seriously and if you're being taken advantage of they want to know.
post #14490 of 14848
FYI, when I had my issues, SEA agreed to let me keep the set and give me the $300 if a tech came and took the service tag. worth considering for all you non-believers.
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