2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 101

Go with ABT and price match(good for up to 30 days after you place your order). They offer an optional 4 year General Electric warranty also for 5 years total coverage. A rep at General Electric explained to me that these sets do not need bulb replacement, which is good... because they don't offer it :P Reading their terms bulbs are defined as "consumer replaceable consumable products" or something of the like.

Anyways, that's what I picked up. Good luck with your purchase

Thats the thing, The last one I had didnt have it- so I definitly wont be having one that does lol, and the two sets at the Future Shop i buy at dont have them. Also From 8 Feet away on a pure white screen If I look for it- sometimes i will see them darkening the picture, which sucks. Otherwise I could care less...
But I know for a fact that the 3 other sets Ive been in contact with dont have them, and others here i guess dont either- I can understand some people can just live with it, but having a set that didnt, and now with one that does, after purchasing it a day later; doesnt make me feel "satisfied with the product" which should be Samsung's Goal.


I dont think anyone should ever pay over 3,000 CDN and be ok with an "ok" product. You know?

Well My HLT-6187 arrived yesterday and I could not be happier with my purchase. I have not had alot of time to play with it but I am getting my dish upgraded to HD today.

Thank you! I knew I wasn't nuts, that is exactly how I feel. Samsung said it was a flaw, I chose the best rated service techs to fix the set, they seem great and have worked with me, sent pictures in, called me, explained the situation. I hope to have a good experience as well.

I know this "problem" isn't a huge deal, but when you spend this much money and Samsung said it is a flaw and are willing to fix it, then by george, I'm taking advantage of it.

I knew this couldn't be fresnel or moire, so it had to be something else, and it was.

The Samsung DLP's come with a 12 month warranty and Samsung extends the warranty by three months when you register it. In my opinion if the TV is working at the 15 month point then you can probably count on it going at least a couple more years without problem. Environment and usage will also effect the TV's lifetime. Will the TV be on for most the day or just nighttime viewing etc. In the final analysis we're all rolling the dice. If by the time you're ready for a new TV your Samsung is still working or if it fails when you're ready for a new one then the extended warranty was a waste of money ... and if it goes out after 15 months and one day then the extended warranty was money well spent. I opted for no extended warranty. I think that money is better used for the inevitable next TV.

How would I confirm this?
When I hit info on the tv it states 1,920x1,080...I have named the input(HDMI/DVI) PC...perhaps this is the reason?

Regards,

LIP

fish1050

This is very interesting. I had tried researching "Gamma" but as per your suggestion I had much better luck Googling "Gamma Correction". Originally I tried adjusting the Gamma during calibration but from your explanation and from what I've read on the Web I think a better method would be to set the Gamma and then do a DVE Calibration. Then move Gamma again and repeat the calibration. The one part of DVE calibration I have not quite been able to nail is the Tint adjustment using the red and green filters. Looks like I'm going to spend some more quality time staring at Reverse Gray Ramps, DVD Pluge and Color Bars .

My present Sony LCD RP set has had to have its light engine replaced twice in 3 years due to degradation of the image (green and pink clouds). The $200 UHP lamp has been replaced twice. All of this occurred after the Sony warranty expired. Lucky for me, I purchased a 3 yr. EW ($375) from CC which has covered all of these costs (would have been over $2000). I normally don't get the extend warranties but this time I did. Since these new Sammy sets seem to have problems with geometry and color fringes on bright white objects, I won't be getting one, but if I did you can bet I would get a 4 or 5 Yr. Extended Warranty.

Just scan only appears as an option for 1080.
Also if you name your input as PC, you then only have options for wide pc, wide tv, 4:3.

The Wide PC seems to work best with PC, it also gives you the option to move the picture up/down and left/right to center as well as enlarge/reduce the image to make it fit perfectly (well as close as you can) with no overscan.

If you set you input to Tv or another source yet have the computer displayed, the just scan option doesn't seem to do anything so the Wide PC option is the best as far as i can tell

Do you have a STB, or a DVD player that can do 1080i into a HDMI connection?

i would return it if its a local purchase. I reported my problme 3 weeks after getting it and decided to let sammy try to fix it. They fixe the smudge problem but the new screen has the circular patterns Prjo has reported. I know have lint throught the tv cause the tech place the front panel on the floor. Prjo seemed to have "good" tech. Mine shrugged off most of the stuff i pointed out and didn't take any action to get pictures to send to samsung even though I took them for him. I called samsung back and complained that i have already missed a few hours from work to allow the tech to do some work. There also are now other problems and asked them to replace the TV which they said no. If i had returned the TV the seller would have returned the TV to sammy anyways so what would be the difference to them replacing the TV now. I do not have confidence in the tech and I honestly do not want to be monkeying around with the Tv and tech for month before they replace. Tier 1 and Tier 2 support at sammy was fine but still did not want to replace the TV. They said I had to give them an opportunity to fix the tv and its my fault that I choose to let the tech try to fix and and now I am past the 30 day return policy. I plan on calling to speak to a manager next week at Sammy as it was after hours when I called.

I personally believe I gave the tech a change to fix it and they put a defective screen in, i also think the tech did a half-a$$ job compared to the one the other person had who layed down a mat to do the work. Hopefully i won;t be stuck having to get tech to try and fix this for months without success before sammy will replace it. Unfornatly m area only has 1 service rep who is like 5minutes from me else i would get someone else.

Anyone who has a defective one i would suggest returning it if your within the 30 day return period.

another rookie queston 16/9 vs 'just scan' setting on the 87s.... whats the diff and which is better typically only diff to my rook eye is that the just scan mode on my dvd connected via hdmi has larger black bars on the top and bottom than the normal 16/9 mode

thanks

the 16x9 mode has a bit of overscan. So the picture if off the edge a little and you won't see the edges.

The just scan mode reduces it so the entire (or most) of the image is on the screen.

The just scan mode would have a little bit more black bars because the overal limage is a bit smaller than the 16x9 mode.

The following outlines using an undocumented feature of our 2007 Samsung HDTV's. I include this information knowing that most advanced Forum members have already intuitively found how to use this. Therefore, this information is for beginners and newbie's who use their sets to receive Over-The-Air Digital TV broadcasts using an Antenna. Most Cable and Dish subscribers already have an on-screen "Electronic Program Guide" (EPG) which is generally superior to this built-in feature.

My HL-T5689S Owner's Manual very briefly (inadequately) mentions this feature:


Here's how to access and use this feature:

1) You must first tune to each digital channel you want program guide info on. I suggest setting up your "Favorite Channels" (FAV.CH on remote) so they include only OTA DTV channels that you regularly watch. Then surf through all these channels to auto-download the program info.

2) Press the CHLIST button. A list of "Added Channels" will appear. This may contain Analog (Air) channels and less important DTV channels. If you set up "Favorite Channels" for all your priority DTV channels, press the << button, then the Down button and select "Favorite" if you wish to filter out your less important channels.

3) Here's an example of my CHLIST filtered by my Favorites:

2-1 KASA-DT [Fox] no info
4-1 KOBDT1 [NBC] French Open
5-1 KNME-HD [PBS] Nova
7-1 KOAT-DT [ABC] WNBA Basketball
13-1 KRQE-DT [CBS] PGA Golf
19-1 KWBQ-HD [CW] no info

4) Move the cursor up or down through this list and then press >> [Next Program] to select the current program. Press INFO for a pop-up window text description of this program. [I see two defects when I display this window: 1) Word wrap breaks words into pieces. 2) lengthy text is truncated at the end. These defects do not occur during normal channel viewing when INFO is pressed.]

5) Here's an example of current and future programs and times for the selected channel:

2007/6/2
1:00 pm Women's Golf
3:00 pm Country Roads
3:30 pm Mercury Media
4:00 pm Where on Earth is Carmen San..
4:30 pm NBC News
5:00 pm Stanley Cup Finals

6) Future Programming Info (scheduling) is displayed down from the current program line item. This lists date, times and program titles. Cursor up or down, then press INFO for a text description of this future program. [I see another defect here. The times for all programs are 1 hour before the actual current time. My TV's clock is set correctly and I have experimented with DST:On/Off and Manual/Auto Time].

This built-in OTA Program Guide is fairly crude and lacks the depth of info provided with TV GUIDE On Screen, TitanTV QuickGuide and Cable or Dish EPG's. Nevertheless, it is free, often contains useful info, and is integrated into the navigation of your TV.

ADDITIONAL TECHNICAL INFO & REFERENCES:

As the advanced users in this Forum know, this Program Guide is not just a Samsung feature, but is part of the ATSC Digital TV standard. Program Guide Info is mandated by the US FCC (not sure how this works for our friends in Canada). It is called PSIP:

The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP)
is the protocol used in the ATSC digital television standard for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast transport stream of a TV station. ... PSIP defines virtual channels and content ratings, as well as program guides with titles and descriptions to be decoded and displayed by the ATSC tuner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSIP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_channel

Roadmap to the DTV Program and System Information Protocol
The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the glue that holds the digital television (DTV) signal together. PSIP is an important standard of the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC), implementation of which is required by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for broadcasters in the U.S...
http://www.psip.org/

What is PSIP and why is it important to the DTV system?
The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) Standard, document A/65, is a collection of tables designed to operate within every transport stream for terrestrial broadcast of digital television...
http://www.atsc.org/faq/faq_psip.html

According to recent posts in the AVS Forum I have learned that the FCC is expanding the PSIP specification and more extensive programming and scheduling info will be mandated. See the following post:

New DTV documents up on FCC site:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...g#post10593599

The following copy from another AVS post lists common info found in PSIP data:

Avio

OK, I've been a big fan of DLP and had been banking on buying the HL-T6189. Sooo, today, the wife and I popped into Tweeters to have a look. It was right between a Sony XBR2 and a 50" Pioneer 720 Plasma. At first the HLT didn't look as good as the XBR but then I had the sales guy change the mode from Dynamic to Movie - nice! Now it was better than the Sony. However, the plasma looked sharper. They were broadcasting FOX HD Sports (Yankees v Red Sox). So I asked him to switch to HD Discovery. HDD was obviously a better broadcast as the HLT and plasma now looked closer but still, from a sharpness perspective, the plasma looked just a bit cleaner. From these 3 sets we were standing about 10 feet away. We walked around the store a bit felt this differential was consistent with all the plasmas. I don't think it was a cabling issue as they had some pretty heavy duty cables running to all the sets and of the 3 the Pioneer was the furthest one out. I felt the same when we walked next door to Bestbuy and looked at the plasmas and HL-T6187.

My question then is whether the HLT can be made a bit sharper through calibration such that it rivals the plasma?

I think Plasma is better as well. I however bought a HL-T6189.

Why? #1 I have kids who play Wii and PS2, and we will no doubt be adding a xbox, PC and/or PS3. The "anti burn in" on plazma is not 100% from what I have read.

I think in an adult house with no need to play video games or use a PC, plazma is the way to go.

David Abrams offers some tips in this calibration thread.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=1&pp=30

vcor,

Thanks for your input.

Fast54t

Funny I think the exact opposite, My HPR-4272 Plasma broke down 3 weeks ago and Samsung sent the Replacement last week HPT-4254. The New one is definitely nicer than the older one, but for gaming, and HD DVD's I think the LED DLP was nicer in terms of PQ for sure. Why I dont know, but it definitly popped more to me.

I ordered my 6187 from ABT electronics on Tuesday and the set arrived Friday afternoon with no damage.ABT price matched CC sale price(2300) w/ free shipping without blinking an eye.No way did the the ABT sale rep have time to check before giving me the price match.They probably have a preset range they are allowed to sell the set at.I probably could have got it cheaper if I wasn't so honest. They used Pilotair for transport and all arrived well.Viewing OTA HD signal looks GREAT!Viewing a regular DVD thru component looks great as well.Viewing SD composite is better than I thought it would be(very acceptable).I have no popping sounds,green push, smudges,swirls, or PS buzzing.So far I'm VERY HAPPY with my set.

Gtunney, I'm no expert here compared to these guys but your comparison is a little off. lol. First unless things are really bad, any smaller sized set will look better. You could look at an LCD and see the same thing. Next, you compared a 720 to a 1080? Its odd since a 1080 would be sharper but Fox broadcasts at 720 so there wasn't any scaling in that example. You switched to Discovery but at that point I think it was more about your eyes not adjusting or something. lol. Lastly, I'm willing to bet you didn't confirm or change any of the picture settings and took it for granted that the sets were properly set when they almost never are. Nothing with you but I'd take some of this into consideration the next time you make a comparison. Even better change the settings to what people here have listed so it will be even better than OTB. That would be something.

Thanks. I've been hunting for my big set for 4 years now and have been in this forum for 3 years. You aren't telling me anything I don't know. No, I did not spend time adjusting the sets and that is why I asked if further calibration (simple user adjustments included) would sharpen things up. Yes, I was surprised that a 720 set would look better even considering it was a smaller screen but some have argued here in the AVS forums that from 10 feet or more that 1080 does not buy you much more at longer viewing distances. And I did look at larger plasmas and some 1080 plasmas, too. That's why I'm asking if in fact head to head whether in the end a good plasma will provide a sharper/cleaner image versus the HLT series. Maybe David Abrams can weigh in from his calibration experience but I don't want to put him in a position of promoting one techology over another.

Believe me, I've seen plenty of disappointing plasma displays in the past and always felt DLP had the edge. It was just very impressed by the newer plasmas. Plus, even the best plasma I saw on display had a fairly reflective screen which neither I nor my wife are fans of. And of course, even the Panny 58" 1080 plasma is $2000 more than the 6189 - that's a huge difference.

Yay! Enjoy, enjoy!!

Avio - the >> Next program button is not on the xx87 remote. Is this a feature only on XX89's?

Gtunney, I follow you, I just wanted to point that stuff out. I find people throw everything out the window when one set catches their eye in a store. lol. I think plasma is sharper/clearer/brighter especially the high end ones. It goes back to knowing the differences between them and what is important to you.

The >> button is just the RIGHT ARROW button in the Circle on your remote.

The Circle contains:

LEFT <<
RIGHT >>
UP ^
DOWN

with ENTER in the center.

Avio

I connected my MacBook to the HL-T6187S with a DVI to HDMI cable. I have the MacBook set to 1920 x 1080 resolution, overscan is unchecked, and the TV is set to Just Scan. There are about 2 inches of black on the sides and 1 inch on the top and bottom. How do I fill the screen?

PapaBliss

Who would have thought a simple one line reply would lead to a morning long journey through pages and pages of the AVS forum including a couple of archived threads. Thanks for reading my post and pointing me to the Display Calibration thread. The old saying "The more you know the more you know you don't know" comes to mind. And knowing so little I certainly didn't know proportionately more. I have the DIY gene so this is not a totally new experience for me .

PC 0% Overscan Tutorial

Read Me: By default, when you connect your PC input there will be several inches of underscan. Following these simple steps should fill the picture on your HLTxxxx from a PC input with minimal picture loss. This method has only been tested by me with VGA input, feel free to give feedback on how this works with DVI/HDMI input.

Note: This does NOT fix bowing or pincushion only over/underscan of the picture.

Do these steps in order:

1) Go to Menu > Setup > PC.
2) Highlight "Auto Adjustment" and press "Enter". This will scan your signal and set your 'Image Lock': 'Coarse' and 'Fine' adjustments automatically. To put it bluntly, it will make sure that all of your PC image is showing.
3) Press the "P-Size" button on your remote.
4) Increase the size of the image several times, attempting to get the vertical length of the display perfectly set.
5) Move the image around and left align & vertically center it.
6) Repeat 4 and 5 until you have the vertical width (top to bottom) of the screen near perfect, and the left side aligned perfectly with the chassis.
7) Go to Menu > Setup > PC again.
8) Go to Image Lock > Coarse. The Coarse setting widens the right side of the picture by 1 pixel increments. This will allow you to adjust only the horizontal length of the screen so that it's perfectly set with the chassis. Adjust the "Coarse" setting until it is satisfactory and you should be done.

Feedback, comments, and questions welcome. I did this about a month ago and I'm explaining it from memory so I hope I didn't skip anything.

This is exactly what I need. I will use this procedure soon and let you know if any additions or corrections are necessary.

I've connected my laptop using the Monoprice "Super VGA HD15 M/M 25ft cable w/ Stereo Audio and Tripple shielded" and it's working fine.

I'm looking forward to getting rid of that pesky Overscan.

Thanks. Avio