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2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 261

post #7801 of 14462
11/12/07 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannondale0815 View Post

I guess I'm just very picky. The bars are quite dark for me as well during the daytime. But in a completely dark room, with the TV set being the only source of light, they don't look that dark anymore.

I have the same problem and my brightness is set to 40. Maybe I should look into setting Black Level but I don't want to get it to dark that I lose the details.

I'll look into maybe raising my brightness back up to around 45 and playing with the Black Level tonight.
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post #7802 of 14462
11/12/07 at 7:53am
Just a quick update on my set - I'm calling today to arrange a return and exchange. The buzz is extremely annoying on my set, and I definitely can't live with it long term. I realize I am risking getting a host of other issues, but somehow I have high hopes of getting a set with no worse halo than I have now, and better geometry Wishful thinking I know, but can't be negative about these things.

I did take a slew of photos, only to find out that my digicam is so bad at taking dark room shots that they don't do the screen any justice. Suffice it to say that aside from a few minor issues (and the buzz), the picture has wowed everyone who has seen it on a wide variety of HD content. SD content is a bit underwhelming (before anyone jumps on me, all my SD sources are scaled via either a Reon chip (Samsung BD-1200) or an Anchor Bay Chip (Yamaha RXV1800), but its hard to expect SD to look great at that size/seating distance. I will say that VHS looks better than on any other big screen TV I've seen, have not viewed DVD on a big screen prior to this so can't compare that.

Finally, I've found that a bias light does this set a lot of favours when it comes to black levels, and makes it possible to view it in a dark room for long periods of time. I recommend anyone having black level problems give that a try.
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post #7803 of 14462
11/12/07 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobich1 View Post

I just bought the 6187s last night at Sears for 1549.99. I thought at that price, this was a great buy. Is the LED in this DLP not as bright as non LED sets? I can put up with that if it means never having to change the bulb...

I found the LED DLP (xx87/89s series) to be on par with a arc-bulb based DLP. The previous model 5679W (first LED DLP) was not as bright.

Yes that is a terrific buy, congratulations!
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post #7804 of 14462
11/12/07 at 9:36am
Hello all. Can anyone confirm whether the analog PIP on the 89s will work with a standard DirecTV satellite receiver? I intend to hook up D*'s HD-DVR via HDMI, but would love to be able to use hook up a standard receiver to the subscreen via the analog (coaxial) input. (I love watching two NFL games side by side on the Sunday Ticket, and don't want to be stuck watching whatever is being shown locally OTA on the subscreen).

I can't seem to find a straight answer to this question. A couple posters in this thread suggest that this can be done. But, I've also seen a couple posts which say just the opposite.

Please help! Because if I can't use the PIP this way, I will probably opt for the cheaper 87s model.

Thanks in advance.
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post #7805 of 14462
11/12/07 at 9:46am
I am close to purchasing a HLT-6189 and have been looking at the HLT-6187 at a few different stores. One item I have noticed had to do with the Green color being far to bright and incorrect when ever viewing scenes from baseball and golf which had a lawn in the background. The greens are just not realistic and I was wondering if this is a setup issue or a problem with the TV. I noticed this on several different Samsungs at different locations but never on other brands.
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post #7806 of 14462
11/12/07 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBP3483 View Post

Just got my HLT6187S and applied the Avical settings.

"Just Scan" does not appear as an active pick (there but not selectable). Is that because I don't have an HD source yet (coming in a week or so)? Does anyone know a way to select this without that?

Other than that and a slight greenish cast, I am very pleased with the unit and with big river, so far. A couple of other initial issues were traced to marginal component color cables, which I corrected.

Any recommended solutions for the greenish cast?

Thanks!

the just scan setting is only available with 1080i/p sources...
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post #7807 of 14462
11/12/07 at 9:57am
Anyone care to comment how well the 6187S calibrates? Will it have good gray scale and good deep blacks? I am coming from a RPTV CRT Hiatachi that calibrates beautifully so deciding between DLP and Plasma I want best possible calibration and accuracy.
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post #7808 of 14462
11/12/07 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

I am close to purchasing a HLT-6189 and have been looking at the HLT-6187 at a few different stores. One item I have noticed had to do with the Green color being far to bright and incorrect when ever viewing scenes from baseball and golf which had a lawn in the background. The greens are just not realistic and I was wondering if this is a setup issue or a problem with the TV. I noticed this on several different Samsungs at different locations but never on other brands.

You can adjust the gamma intensity and also reset my color control effecting pink, green, blue, back to factory settings in the detail settings within picture control. So you certainly reduce the green intensity to your liking. Samsung menu interface is fairly straight forward.
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post #7809 of 14462
11/12/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

You can adjust the gamma intensity for each of the primary colors (red, green, blue) and also reset my color control effecting pink, green, blue, back to factory settings in the detail settings within picture control. So you certainly reduce the green intensity to your liking. Samsung menu interface is fairly straight forward.

Thanks...Thought it was a minor issue but having only seen this on the Samsung LED model and not other brands, I was a little concerned. The moment I switched channels away from the Golf scenes, the picture looked great and better then other brands in the same room.
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post #7810 of 14462
11/12/07 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Believe it or not you can also encounter green push issues with the Sony SXRD based displays.

I'm sure you can John, but I have not. Also you are WRONG about the HDMI being the culprit. I had the problem via HDMI, componet, composite, svid, and coax to the roof antenna. In addition I had it on HD Satelite, OTA Antenna, and 2 seperate SD DVD players. (on two, count them 2 sets!)

BTW none of the settings made any difference. Also I forgo the light engine replacement so I cannot spek to its effectiveness.

Did you have the green push problem and sucessfully fix it? Did anybody?

I'm not here to push the Sony, just to see how these issues all come out in the end. I feel quite invested by now after all my trials and tribulations.
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post #7811 of 14462
11/12/07 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by doudis2 View Post

I'm sure you can John, but I have not. Also you are WRONG about the HDMI being the culprit. I had the problem via HDMI, componet, composite, svid, and coax to the roof antenna. In addition I had it on HD Satelite, OTA Antenna, and 2 seperate SD DVD players. (on two, count them 2 sets!)

BTW none of the settings made any difference. Also I forgo the light engine replacement so I cannot spek to its effectiveness.

Did you have the green push problem and sucessfully fix it? Did anybody?

I'm not here to push the Sony, just to see how these issues all come out in the end. I feel quite invested by now after all my trials and tribulations.

I said it "can be caused" by colorspace issues between display and DVD player via HDMI in some setups as a comment to other party. Just something to be aware of, not necessary in everyone's experience.

But since you brought it up did you try resetting the my color space colors back to factory settings or vary the primary color gamma within detail settings to counter the green push before exchanging displays?

I know what you mean when you have been through more then want to experience.

I think the key question here is how well does Samsung test various displays in factory before fielding them? One would think that if a display showed a hue that was shifted to green that would be corrected at the factory before shipping.
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post #7812 of 14462
11/12/07 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

I said it "can be caused" by colorspace issues between display and DVD player via HDMI in some setups as a comment to other party. Just something to be aware of, not necessary in everyone's experience.

But since you brought it up did you try resetting the my color space colors back to factory settings or vary the primary color gamma within detail settings to counter the green push before exchanging displays?

I know what you mean when you have been through more then want to experience.

I think the key question here is how well does Samsung test various displays in factory before fielding them? One would think that if a display showed a hue that was shifted to green that would be corrected at the factory before shipping.


Your last question is a very good one.

Yes I did try resetting all values to factory defaults only in the regular menus (i do not venture in to maint menu land). Plus the tech came out and did a bunch of stuff in the maintenance menu. I think the problem is the LED drivers being wacked some way or another. Can't say for sure.

Actually I was hoping it was just somekind of miss cal. out of the factory, but the tech wanted to replace the light engine. Therfore I difer to the experts

All and all it is just 1 gen growing pains. Sammy will get the bugger in the end.
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post #7813 of 14462
11/12/07 at 12:46pm
I found I had a greenish display (HL-T5687) in reviewing some shows I had recorded (Dish VIP722) but found this mostly to be the Journeyman problem. I might have to look a the detailed color adjustments for this often rather dark in the night scenes program. So some green may just be the broadcast. Love it otherwise.
-Ken
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post #7814 of 14462
11/12/07 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

You can adjust the gamma intensity for each of the primary colors (red, green, blue) ...

I've looked for these settings and cannot find them. Can you describe EXACTLY how to access these settings?
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post #7815 of 14462
11/12/07 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor View Post

I've looked for these settings and cannot find them. Can you describe EXACTLY how to access these settings?

Reference xx89s manual: In the users manual see page 29. You are on Picture Control portion of menu, on the list of settings you will see a detail settings. Entering detail settings shows all the following.

● Black Adjust: Off/Low/Medium/High
You can directly select the black level on the screen to adjust the screen depth.
● Dynamic Contrast: Off/Low/Medium/High
You can adjust the screen contrast so that the optimal contrast is provided.
● Gamma: -3 ~ +3
You can adjust the Primary Color (Red, Green Blue) Intensity.
Press the ◄ or ► button until you reach the optimal setting.
● White Balance: -10 ~ +10
You can adjust the color temperature for more natural picture colors.
Press the ◄ or ► button until you reach the optimal setting.
● My Color Control: Pink/Green/Blue/Reset
This setting can be adjusted to suit your personal preferences.
Select the Pink, Green or Blue by pressing the ▲ or ▼ button, then press the ENTER button.
Press the ◄ or ► button until you reach the optimal setting.
Reset: The previously adjusted colors will be reset to the factory defaults.
● Edge Enhancement: Off/On
You can emphasize object boundaries.
● xvYCC: Off/On
Setting the xvYCC mode to On increases detail and color space when watching movies from an external device (ie. DVD player)
connected to the HDMI or Component IN jacks. You must set the Picture Mode to Movie to enjoy this feature.
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post #7816 of 14462
11/12/07 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannondale0815 View Post

I guess I'm just very picky. The bars are quite dark for me as well during the daytime. But in a completely dark room, with the TV set being the only source of light, they don't look that dark anymore.

I tried vieing in a completely dark room and the TV can be so bright that it overwhelms the dark/black bars. Something to try is to find something showing that has black in it or is darker. Then see whether the black in the picture is darker than the bars. I tried that and the bars were just as dark as the picture.

Bob
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post #7817 of 14462
11/12/07 at 4:03pm
'Setting the xvYCC mode to On increases detail and color space when watching movies from an external device (ie. DVD player)
connected to the HDMI or Component IN jacks. You must set the Picture Mode to Movie to enjoy this feature.


Is this 'xvYCC' feature only on the 89 series? I have never seen it on my 61-87.

TIA
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post #7818 of 14462
11/12/07 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by doudis2 View Post

I would check their website for a return policy to see if it is in conflict to what the rep told you. If it is then contact the store manager. I would not doubt the rep is just trying to preserve his commission. If you contact the service guys they will just try to fix the lemon; well at least that's my take on it.

Best of Luck!

I think you're right about that. Contacted Service department and they said they have to have a repair guy come out to check it and make sure it's a factory default... yeah right like it's my fault, lol. So they repair guy called and said it won't be till the end of next week when he can make it out.

So I called the Store manager. He seemed like he wanted to work with me until he said he had to call samsung and see if they would ship one out to my house, and exchange it for the new one. He told me he'd call me back in an hour and never did and didn't take my call at the store.

something fishy is going on here. I'm taking the set back tomorrow regardless or their exchange policy, and I'm bringing people with me. They're going to exchange it rather they like it or not or I'm going to get a refund.
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post #7819 of 14462
11/12/07 at 5:48pm
Hey guys, lurking for a while. Thought I would share on the green push. I had a green push that bugged the hell out of me. I had just replaced my STB through Charter to get HDTV. I checked all the connections and thought I fixed t, but it came back. I checked all over the web, including this site and found nothing except calibration posts.

Well, I took a stab in the dark and took my box down to Charter and asked for a new one. They gave me a NEW one, and I took it home and BAM! no green push. If all else fails, give it a try.
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post #7820 of 14462
11/12/07 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaizer2000 View Post

the screen is not glued to the frame. The screen sits in the frame. There are 4 metal bars that slide and lock into place which keeps the screen in place.

If you don't have any other problems with the TV a tech should easily be able to make sure the bars are seated and locked into place correctly.

I'd be concerned if you replaced it and got one with the halo/prism problem or geometry issues. Most of the scareen issues (smudges, specs..etc) have easily been replaced by tech replacing the screen.

Best Buy has sent two replacement TV's to the house in the past week and I checked both on the truck for screen movement problems before they were unloaded. Both had the same problem and were sent back. I called Samsung service and I've got them coming to fix the screen in a few days as BB does not want to deal with it anymore as they swear this is normal. What jerks...
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post #7821 of 14462
11/12/07 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannondale0815 View Post

Can a fellow owner verify this for me on her/his set?

Thanks
-J

I have the same issue, though i haven't seen too many others report this. I've had a tech out twice to look at it, the first time he laughed and said "yeah, these sets are a compromise". I played with the settings for a few days, thinking i could lessen the effect, no luck. The second time time he came out, he said he would have to chat with Samsung and see if they had any way to fix it. "There's no setting to adjust that" were his exact words. He didn't even mention the iris, even though i know that doesn't work (the setting won't stick, and it's not a perfect solution anyway). That reminds me that he never called me back. >=\\

To clarify, areas that have ZERO content on screen are NEVER black. The brightness control has NO effect on this illumination. It looks to me like there's permanent light leakage, or scatter somewhere, so that entire screen is dimly lit all the time (like an LCD). In a bright room, it's not too noticeable, but it's impossible to ignore at night (or even with my shades fully closed). Movies like Underworld, Dark City, Sin City, and Event Horizon really don't look their best in a dim room on this set.
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post #7822 of 14462
11/12/07 at 9:26pm
I have a problem with my HLT 5067S and I am wondering if anybody knows a solution. Everytime I configure my picture options to the settings I like, my configuration will reset after about 20 minutes, or if I turn off the TV it will reset on start-up.



When it resets, the screen goes black and it takes about 5 seconds before whatever I am watching or playing comes back on the screen, as it was before I changed the settings.



The odd thing is, it only resets my picture settings. The setting for start-up melody and the light below the power button stay as I set them...

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #7823 of 14462
11/12/07 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy61LED View Post

'Setting the xvYCC mode to On increases detail and color space when watching movies from an external device (ie. DVD player)
connected to the HDMI or Component IN jacks. You must set the Picture Mode to Movie to enjoy this feature.


Is this 'xvYCC' feature only on the 89 series? I have never seen it on my 61-87.

TIA

Your right this feature is not part of the detailed menu for xx87s series. Compared xx87s user manual to xx89s user manual.
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post #7824 of 14462
11/13/07 at 3:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurepiano View Post

I have a problem with my HLT 5067S and I am wondering if anybody knows a solution. Everytime I configure my picture options to the settings I like, my configuration will reset after about 20 minutes, or if I turn off the TV it will reset on start-up.

You are in shop mode, which is used in stores to restore the over-bright dynamic mode in order to stand out.

IIRC the fix is to hold the menu (?) button for 10 seconds or more. There should be an indicator. If I'm wrong then search for "shop mode". You should not have to put up with that.

If you got a direct shipment from Samsung you should not be in this mode. I think.
-Ken
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post #7825 of 14462
11/13/07 at 4:06am
Thanks again....................
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post #7826 of 14462
11/13/07 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarflives View Post

To clarify, areas that have ZERO content on screen are NEVER black.

You will never get pure black from a DLP based TV (unless the entire picture is black, in which case, theoretically, the LEDs could all be turned off).

In order to display the light areas of the image, the bulb or LEDs need to be on. Light is reflected off of the DLP chip's micromirrors, which swing rapidly back and forth either reflecting the light through a lens assembly and onto the screen or internally to an absorption area in the TV. However, the areas around the micromirrors, such as the hinges and gaps, are not totally unreflective (nothing can absorb all light). The light that you are seeing is this minimal reflection, and possibly other stray light reflections within the set.

TI tries to reduce stray reflection off the DLP chip. They call this "DarkChip" technology. However, it can't be eliminated entirely. This is just the nature of a DLP TV.

The effect can be reduced even more using "dynamic contrast" in which the intensity of the LEDs themselves can be reduced if there is no area of the image that is at full brightness. But as soon as there is a high intensity area in the image, however small, the LEDs have to be turned up and stray reflections light up the black areas to some extent.
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post #7827 of 14462
11/13/07 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Exactly!!!

What gets me is their silence. I contacted Samsung tech support with all the HDCP information about the beginning of August, giving them time to research and resolve the surround sound blocking problem. My first post to the forum was Aug 24th. In three months since then they have NEVER given me a substantive reply. I have only received one "thanks for your suggestion" email from them. It seems unavoidable to conclude that Samsung is hiding something. Bet you will never hear from the Samsung rep on the CC forum http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/gener...2-3ca8bab763c9.

I am going to collect all this info and send it to an AV / Home Theater magazine editor. This might make an interesting story for publication about incomplete implementation of HDMI by Samsung.

Just went to the Samsung FAQ http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/...ARS_ID=5333943 and marked it Very Poor and sent the following comment:


Provided my email address but don't expect to get a reply from Samsung.

JR,

I'm really glad you are holding Samsung's feet to the fire on this optical issue. I ran headlong into the problem just last night, and I'm stunned they'd basically defraud customers like this. Even if the manual didn't explicitly say that HDMI -> Optical pass-through would work, what reasonable person would expect the latest digital HDTVs with the newest cabling technology would deliberately defeat a 5.1 home theater receiver? Argh!

I also made my displeasure known at their FAQ feedback site. Thanks for the link.

Now I have to figure out what to do. Live without 5.1 hoping Samsung will fix the problem; buy a bunch of optical cables and learn to love switching inputs on both the TV and the receiver; or look into a new receiver with HDMI inputs and an HDMI or DVI output (assuming the receiver isn't similarly hobbled).

It sounds like "Talk like a pirate day" in my house today. Argh!!!
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post #7828 of 14462
11/13/07 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Televisionary View Post

[...] buy a bunch of optical cables and learn to love switching inputs on both the TV and the receiver [...]

Or get a universal, intelligent remote, such as a Harmony, which will do all the switching for you when you change activities.

You would still have to buy a bunch of optical cables, though.
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post #7829 of 14462
11/13/07 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannondale0815 View Post

I need a little bit of advise or "handholding" if you will. My HL-T6187S is pretty much near perfect. Great geometry, no detectable green push, only a slight halo (intend on getting that fixed once the 'black ring fix' has proven itself).

But: I noticed that I am susceptible to the rainbow effect. Even though it's supposed to be minimized in this set, I can still inadvertently see it in dark, high contrast scenes.

Looking for advise on how other people would deal with this. Can one get used to it and is having a perfect geometry worth more than not seeing any RBE?

Thanks
-J

Well, I am devastated. My set is pretty much perfect, except for a slight halo (as described above), but I just cannot get over the RBE. It has started to really bother me, and I see it everywhere now. I cannot even concentrate on a show anymore, as all I am trying to constantly do is looking for the RBE, which, in my case, is mostly expressed in the red color shifting when i quickly move my eyes from one object on the screen to a different one.

I unfortunately have no choice but to return my near perfect set. Very sad, but a set with a three-chip design will be the only way to go for me. So I'll probably go for an A3000 instead, just have to find a really good deal in my area (NYC / NJ area -- suggestions via PM welcome).
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post #7830 of 14462
11/13/07 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Update Sept 28, 2007: It seems that Samsung has gotten the message that the HDCP License does not require blocking Digital Audio Output. Their story now is that the hardware will not support Digital Audio Output from HDMI sources. I have heard with my own ears proof that this is a lie. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7140 for details.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Original Post:

My only disappointment with my HTL 5689S is that Samsung has chosen to block the Digital Audio Output (Optical) for audio from HDMI sources. I say chosen because the HDCP License Agreement ( http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_...st_21_2005.pdf ) says:

3.3.2.3 IEC60958 Audio Content may be passed:

3.3.2.3.2 To IEC-60958 or IEC 61937 where SCMS information is properly set and transmitted as Copy-never.

To comply with the HDCP License Agreement, Samsung can set the channel status bit 2 in the S/PDIF control word to zero, for Digital Audio Output (Optical) output. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF .

Samsung's unfortunate choice means no surround sound from HDMI sources. This could be easily addressed with a firmware update. I hope that those of you considering a xx87 or xx89 will send a Samsung Product Information Question of when surround sound from HDMI sources will be available and those with these models will express your desire for a firmware update to allow surround sound from HDMI sources by sending a Complaint with form http://ars.samsung.com/customer/form...=1&PROD_ID=153 . Tell them that you know that they can legally do it, so they should do it now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


P.S. The above form does not have current DLP models in the model selection list. Select any model in the list then mention your model in the subject and body of the form. I have sent a website feedback about this form error (It has been more than a month and no fix yet).

Here's what I wrote on their complaint form:

================
Title: HL-T5087S Digital Audio Passthrough & fraudulent marketing

To Whom It May Concern:

I have spent the last day trying to connect my HL-T5087S to my 5.1 audio system. I was stunned to learn that my new Samsung does not pass digital audio from HDMI inputs to the optical output, even though the manual says it will.

I understand that the product FAQ on this subject has been changed. It originally said the issue was not a hardware issue, but a legal one. Now the FAQ says, misleadingly, that it just isn't possible. However, other Txx87S and Txx89S owners have found evidence this is untrue. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11963502 for details.

I also understand that this software design decision was based on a misunderstanding of the new digital copyright laws. The HDCP License Agreement ( http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_...st_21_2005.pdf ) says:

3.3.2.3 IEC60958 Audio Content may be passed:

3.3.2.3.2 To IEC-60958 or IEC 61937 where SCMS information is properly set and transmitted as Copy-never.

To comply with the HDCP License Agreement, Samsung can set the channel status bit 2 in the S/PDIF control word to zero, for Digital Audio Output (Optical) output. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF .

Samsung's unfortunate choice means no surround sound from HDMI sources. This could be easily addressed with a firmware update. I encourage Samsung USA to deliver what customers have paid for.
==============
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