Cheaper Component to S-Video Converter - Page 20

I use the MP component to S Video ever since the DirecTV boxes blocked the standard def outputs when set to HD: I use the output to feed a Channel Plus S vid modulator to distribute video throughout the house

The quality of the video through the converter is not as good as the S Video I used to get direct from the box.

I tried several brands and did not see an appreciable difference in any of them

Geez, i hope Dish doesn't start doing that.That'd be a real poke in the eye!!

That's kind of what I noticed too when comparing the converters S-video out to a non converted S-video output. Of course it's better than the alternative in your case
When you said you tried several different brands, did you try any that were a fair amount more expensive($200-$300) or do you think they were all Lenkeng clones? Note due to similar design and features some are speculating most of the sub $100 converters are all made by Lenkeng and just rebranded for specific resellers.
Lastly does your DirecTV box output HDMI and component at the same time? and I take it when you set it to SD it disables HDMI and component or do they output 480i?

I've said all the following before, but to refresh memories...

I have two Lenkeng component>S-Video converters, one purchased directly from China, and one from MP.

I have an Audio Authority component>S-Video converter.

I have an Atlona component>S-Video converter.

None of these units are perfect. They all cause a little shift from blue to green. None of them make as dark a black as one would want.

I have had good luck, and been reasonably satisfied with the Lenkeng units. As Mark says, their picture is not quite as good as S-Video direct from my DVRs. But, they are consistent, and I have not had some of the problems with them that I have had with the more expensive units. And, producing an anamorphic picture is a definite plus.

The Audio Authority and Atlona units look identical, except for the the font of the labels on the switches, etc. Both have performed pretty much the same. They do have a brighter, sharper picture than the Lenkengs. But, both also tend to over-darken dark scenes, especially in B&W, but also in color. Both can have problems correctly framing LB pictures from SD sources, such as the Sundance Channel, Flix, and FMC. You have to trick it, by switching directly from a SD channel with a full-frame picture, to the one you want to record. I seem to have a special problem with them, using TCMHD. TCMHD puts a thin black border on all sides of a WS picture. When I start playing such a picture, it will be correctly centered. Then, sometime, from 1 - ~15 minutes, the picture will shift to the right, so there is no thin black border on the right, and a double wide one on the left.

But, my main problem with both units is that there is an occasional horizontal shear, maybe once or twice in a film, or maybe not at all, lasting from a second or two, to a minute or so. What seems to happen is that below this shear line, the previous frame is displayed. So, this is only really visible when there is movement, or at a scene change. If you pause a recording of the problem at a scene change, you will see part of the last frame of one scene, and part of the first frame of the other. This can happen on any channel. This happens to me when I am recording something I am playing back on the DVR, I can replay the same scene with the sheer, and the second time it won't be there. Weird, isn't it?

I found a fair bit of discussion on the ViewHD on AVS when i did a google search. Lots of links lead here. Yes it works if you have HDMI with CP.

It looks very similar in functions to HDfury 2 or 3. My money is that some of these manufacturers back in Taiwan or what ever are reverse engineering competitors products and making them slightly different. I would not be surprised if HDfury has a considerable mark up which they can do because of their high profile and marketing (fancy website, claiming they are best, good reputation etc) if you have a high end product that works and works well you can do that. There is a big price difference between the fury and the viewhd but electronics wise i bet they coas t about the same to make, but HDfury has the name and better marketing and perhaps there is a little better which allows them to boost the price.


You dont need to necessarily spend $300 plus on a component to s-vid converter. You can get an Ambery one for around $190, which i honestly believe is just the same as the brands out their (Atlona, CYP, Avtool, Audio authority etc) which all most likely originate from the same factory In Taiwan. Greaser uses a Atlona brand of this box with his HDfury.

I have not seen many other quite good under $200 component to s-vid converters except for some from Shinybow in $150-$180 region but i honestly dont know what they are like but i would think they are a step up from the chinese stuff.

I kinda feel that for better quality it would be better to go HDMI to comp in one box and comp to s-vid in another, also for the fact that i have not come across many if any HDMI to s-vid boxes that will allow HDCP signals and also have good pic quality.

kjbawk,if i would have seen what you describe, with my Atlona unit,ie;green shift,off centered pic. i would have 'lost it', thrown a fit and got rid of the thing! However,i have noticed,as you say,a horizontal split in the pic.,it doesn't happen often and is short lived,so it doesn't really annoy me.You may feel diff.

Yes,you do have to "trick it" into displaying a 4x3 pic.correctly.I described that in some of my earlier posts where i said i use 'Fox News HD' as my reference channel.Otherwise i haven't had much difficulty showing any other aspect ratio correctly except 2:35:1 which can be problematic at times but not always.I guess it depends whether the converter is having a 'good day'or not!

You're also right about the converter making dark scenes darker.I don't particularly like it but i consider it small price to pay for an otherwise good converter.I thought i could help it by changing the "color scale"(0-255 vs.16-235) setting in my AVR but it didn't change anything.Oh well.

The green shift is slight, mostly only noticeable when I use my PIP to display the source, and the converter output, side by side, with a blue field displayed.

I only get the off center picture on TCMHD, and I don't lose any of the image, it's just that their narrow black bar is all on the left. I don't like it, but I can live with it.

I'm glad to hear that someone else has seen that horizontal shift! If there isn't much movement, I might not even notice it. But. when someone is moving across the screen, and it is happening, their body is split in half, and offset. That bothers me very much!. I have become adept at finding breaks, where I can rerecord a partial film, and stitch it together with the first one I recorded, and get a single film, without any major splits.

I think they were all knockoffs of the same thing as mentioned

DirecTV boxes put up a splashscreen over the picture on the composite & S vid output whenever the box is set for higher than 480i: both HDMI & component outs work for HD.

I think they will have to to comply with legal requirements

I bet all those Chinese/Taiwanese engineers are sitting back in their chairs reading this laughing as we all try and work out what converters are originals, what converters are copies of others or are made by another company.

I think i was reading on the Lenkeng site that even they had problems with some guy counterfieting their stuff.

Early on in this thread someone from Lenkeng did post on here from memory. I hate it how its seems with most of these converters there always seems to be one tiny fault, even with the better expensive. Surely these days they can make a converter and it only would require changing the value of a resistor or cap or something.

They might already have!

In that link I gave earlier. there's a note on the $26 MCM CP stripper for VHS on how Tomwil found a pot inside that allowed him to get a better pic and copy ALL his commercial DVDs. Without manipulating that pot, I was able to copy all VHS but only MOST of my toughest comm. DVDs.

See Tomwil's posts #15 & 20 here.

I've always wondered if these other converter can also be "manipulated" to do better things?

A note in the Atlona AT Comp-500 owners manual:"When input source is not displaying "full screen"(ie;letterbox,pillerbox image)then the output display may come out w/incorrect size or positioning of images.Input source must be set to full screen first before powering on converter".

I guess i didn't see the incorrect positioning you report kjbawk because when i first got my converter i read the "note" and acted accordingly by first inputting a full screen image,and have been doing so ever since(tho' i do know it happens). I use Fox News HD for my reference channel cuz it gives the full screen necessary to fulfill that need.The converter only needs a few seconds to 'lock on' to the image,then when i change channels to TCMHD the aspect ratio(usually 4x3)comes out normally as do other aspect ratios.2:35:1 CAN cause trouble at times,(stretching),it can be cured,but i don't worry about it much cuz i rarely record movies filmed in that AR.In fact,once the unit is fed the "full screen image"just one time at the beginning,i can then record from diff.channels in sequence,each showing a diff.AR and the image will show normally.I commonly do this when i have multiple movies to record from diff.channels,usually unmanned timed recordings while i'm at work.
You can google Atlona AT Comp-500 and it will lead to the Atlona website where you can view a PDF copy of the owners manual and read everything for yourself. This is a good converter that has excellent PQ(far,far superior to the Lenkeng) as long as the source has excellent PQ.I have never seen the green shift you see,my eyes are sensitive to that sort of stuff,and if i saw it i'd have gone thru the roof!!
I have seen it while recording OTA(w/o the converter)on certain "Perry Mason"eps.that i have recorded.I v'e also seen a blue shift,but as i said that was during OTA recordings w/o the converter.

That might have been me complaining about the issue. Yes, DirecTV has made changes to its software that prevents HD and SD outputs from rendering the GUI simultaneously. I am NOT using a converter box however. It is very important to me to record the closed captioning--the imbedded closed captioning-- and none of the converter boxes I tested will pass the CC info onto the composite/S-Video stream. Yes, the CC info is in the component stream because my television, using a component input, will display it just fine, so it HAS to be there.

This was my experience too. I have since abandoned the idea of using a converter as the quality was inferior to the boxes' own SD output, and the CC issue I mentioned above.

It is a result of how DirecTV is processing their new HD GUI, and has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with rules or regulations, so I really don't expect it to happen to Dish, or any other provider.

I tried more than one of the cheap ones, like the Monoprice one, and some much more expensive ones in the >$300 range. The more expensive ones had many more features, (overscan image size, image placement, color & brightness controls (in the really expensive one anyway)) but overall, the picture quality was no better with the really expensive ones than with the inexpensive ones (the wife preferred the inexpensive ones to the more expensive ones) so I just packed them all back up, sent them back, and went to converting the output of the box from HD to SD when I make a recording. It's a hassle, but I get the CC info, and the picture quality is superior. If I could find a converter that did what I want, I'd be using it--believe me!

When I set my HR21s and HR22s to HD, the SD outputs are active and putting out 480i, but there is no guide information ever displayed on screen. When you press a button that would call up any page of the guide, you get this hideous screen with a message telling you that the television you are watching is not HD, or at least the cabling is not. I KNOW that--I don't need to be continuously told that--but there is no way to disable ot inhibit this irritating NAG screen! When I use the "cancel button" which is a workaround that DirecTV gave us to change screen resolution from HD to SD and back, the machine converts the HD outputs to 480p, and the SD outputs (of course) stay at 480i. All outputs on my DirecTV HRxx DVRs are simultaneously active all the time. It was great before the HD GUI, now it's much less than great. Complaints have been made, but DirecTV has responded iwth a replay something like, only a VERY small number of customers use HD and SD soutputs simultaneously, so it isn;t worth their time to change the current programming.

^^^ Luke where'd you find converters with features like image size, image color,image placement,and color and brightness controls in the~$300.00-$400.00 range??(my guess since you said >$300.00 range).My Atlona has over/underscan,andNTSC/PAL switches,but i only paid $207.00+5.00 shipping.I looked at a LOT,and i mean a LOT of converters before i bought the Atlona,and the converters i saw that had the features you mention seem IIRC, to start at ~$600.00 and up.I saw some really nice converters(Component>s vid.) in the $800.00-$2000.00 range,but who can afford those!!! Some of those converters had functions that i'm totally unfamiliar with and whose names i cannot remember anymore.Real Fancy stuff!!!
Now i'm not trying to start an argument or anything,far from it but,i have a hard time believing that out of all those converters that you tried,you couldn't find one that couldn't Significantly outdo a Lenkeng in PQ,then i'm Really glad i bought an Atlona,because its PQ blows the Lenkeng right out of the water.

They are out there

but about $420 seems the cheapest with those features before going bargain hunting. I have mentioned them several times in my last posts in recent weeks in this thread. I will find some part numbers later but off the top of my head Cypress CH380 or CH380A is one of them and then theres all the re brands of that unit. Some currently on US ebay.

I am going to look back at what Kramer and Tvone offers now because i have found a place in Australia that sells those brands several hundred dollars cheaper than in USA..... amazing.

Well, you got me there. The one in particular with all those features was loaned to me by a friend in the video business, so it was a professional model. I don't even know the price of that one, but it had a really objectionable picture quality on my HD televison. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you could very clearly see the grouped SD scan lines that made the picture look jagged and blocky--espically printing. I did not see this picture flaw with any of the others. It was also much larger than the others, so there was a lot going on in there. And before you ask, I don't remember a make or model. I knew it was way out of my price range, so I never paid attention. Probably as you say, in the $800-$2000 range.

The ~$300 converters I got from B&H. They each had one or combinations of position adjustment (small adjustment) and over/under scan picture size features. Do a search, they have a bunch in many price ranges. they all work, but none of them actually looked better than the DirecTV receiver's own SD output. Many of them were more expensive than the HR2x receiver I was connecting them to, so it would actually have been cheaper to get an additional receiver and run one SD only while the other was HD only than get a converter that was over $300.

I let my wife look at the pictures and judge what she thought looked best to her. She had no idea what the source was, and the HR2x won every head to head comparison. I had to conceed the issue and return the equipment.

I think iv'e pretty well learned that when it comes to this kind of converter,it's best to buy 'new',because used 'bargains' oft times come with a hidden price,ie;they're somebody else's throw away headache,they have problems that the seller will not disclose,especially on ebay.I won't buy from ebay.

Ofcourse, i agree, i am not talking about used ones. You can buy them new on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VGA-Componen...item1c04a3c2d7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AVT-3190-HDT...item2c6433adb1

Both these sites have websites aswell where you can buy them from

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Researc...item3373e52e83

same as above but $100 more


REVIEW on the Hall Research version

http://www.madisontech.com.au/downlo...rt-vhd-180.pdf


AVT version for $420
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Converter.html


under $200
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1080i-HD-Com...item2c6228e061

this only has VGA input but notice how the photo shows a Cypress unit but the description says Atlona, Why because they are the same and come from Cypress originally. Atlona no longer sells the component version like the AVT brand though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATLONA-VGA-P...item3cbaac3de7

I looked at many like the ones you have posted links for, and I even tried a couple from B&H, but they are much more than I was willing to pay and they all had some artificat I wasn't happy with.

Since the thread title is "Cheaper Component to S-Video Converter" these are rather off-topic. ~$200 to $450 is not cheaper. In this case, you don't always get value for your money as you point out, many identical units are sold for vastly different prices. For general purpose work, the Monorpice one at ~$45 worked just about as well as the ~$400 ones.

Shrug.

I have 3 questions...

This converter has been bought by some and discussed...
HDMI to Composite /S-Video Converter

1.) Is the S-VIDEO picture quality from the converter at least better than a composite connection?

2.) How does the S-VIDEO picture quality from the converter compare to a "real or actual" S-VIDEO output to S-VIDEO input connection?

On Amazon, many complain that the converter runs hot and/or has a high failure rate... a failure rate which may be tied to the heat it generates...

3.) Has anyone performed mods to the casing of the converter... such as removing the top/bottom of the casing and drilling holes in the casing itself to help dissipate the heat the converter generates?

All answers welcome and thanks in advance for the info...

IMO No. If you have access to a direct WS composite connection that will be better than the HDMI to S-video converter output. That said if your composite connection is letterboxed I'd take the converted output. Personally I couldn't tell much of a difference between the converters composite and S-video output(even though I normally much prefer S-video to composite).

See above, I didn't notice much of a difference between the converters composite and S-video output. Neither output compared to a direct composite or S-video output.

I believe Wajo said removing the ends of his converter made it run cooler, while it does run a little warm I'm not too worried since I unplug it when not in use, I don't think it runs much warmer than my Sima which is several years old and still keeps going.
As much as I may sound negative about this device I still think it beats letterboxed composite or S-video, I just wish it looked closer to a direct wide screen composite or S-video. Because of this for simple CP removal I'm continuing to use my Sima but for letterboxed output I'm using my HDMI to S-video converter. I've kind of summized to get much better quality one would need to spend drastically more money and possibly go with two devices. One to convert from HDMI to component and another to go from component to S-video, something I'm not really willing to do.
Monoprice now sells a HDMI to S-video converter, I'd assume it's the same as your Amazon link but $6 more + shipping.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Here's my help file with some info on the converters.

Your observations are completely understandable and not surprising. I think the problem with any of these ultra-cheap HDMI --> analog converters is going to be the quality of the DAC. You are going from digital to analog output. To do that in a quality way requires a quality DAC -- ask any audio enthusiast. Quality DAC's are not cheap and so no one should expect a quality DAC in a $30 converter -- especially if it is chinese design. They are what they are: functional (for now) but lacking in performance. There might be a positive way to look at this -- if the quality of the picture from the converter is below that of direct composite, people may find that recording in 4hr mode vs. 2hr mode doesn't make much difference in PQ of the final output and you can pack a higher amount of lower quality video on a disk.

I can understand that but why do cheaper component to S-video converters also lack sharpness/quality? Isn't component analog and therefor wouldn't require a DAC?

...Thinking this through maybe the key for component to S-video quality lies in changing the resolution from HD to SD? Maybe they use a ADC(if their is such a thing) to go from analog component to digital, change the resolution digitally and then a DTA to convert from the digital back to analog S-video/composite? If this is the case then maybe a component to S-converter that only accepted 480i component input may provide a better S-video output? The one problem with that(and why I believe most modern converters allow all resolution inputs) is many devices will not output 480i component(my camera is such a device) only 480p and above? Some good points to ponder for those who have access to 480i component.....I believe Nextoo's original component-to-S-video Apple converter was just such a device(only allowed 480i component input) and I don't remember Nextoo complaining about PQ. Of course since component is 0 IRE and S-video/composite is 7.5 IRE the designers would have had to take that into account also(otherwise the picture would be too dark).
Lots of things to go wrong with such converters and if someone wasn't paying attention or price was the only concern I can see how the picture quality could suffer

I totally agree with the above.



I don’t agree with that. In fact from my observations in many cases when you start off with a low quality source (as in using a cheap HDMI to analog gizmo) it is even more important to use a high bit-rate as a low bit-rate will exaggerate all the flaws in the signal.


There is a lot of converting going on going from analog three-channel component to analog two-channel S-Video. I’m guessing that it may be cheaper for the converter to be designed to go analog-component to digital-component to analog-s-video. I can’t say for sure – just guessing.

Thanks for all your info and opinion jjeff... it's greatly appreciated.

I think I'll hold off for now... and keep trying to convince DISH NETWORK to find and send me a VIP222 to replace my new VIP222K receiver...

The VIP222 has S-Video output, whereas the VIP222K does not... but, according to them, the VIP222 is not manufactured anymore...

Heck, I'd take a used unit if they could find me one...

Upgrade to a 722(k)? Guess you don't want a DVR?

heh...

I already own 3 DVR type devices... a Maggie 515 + V2160A, and a Panny EZ-27... so I don't really need a receiver with a built-in one...

Plus, they cost more a month with the DVR fee...

I already gave DISH NETWORK my first born son...
Don't want to give them my right arm too...



or do I?...

I have the 722K and think recording from the composite output looks pretty good. My friend thinks viewing the composite on his 60" HDTV also looks pretty good.

I use my dual-tuner 722 to time-shift, auto-search and record content based on title/description, and then transfer the DVR recordings I want to keep thru S-video or composite to my Mags for DVD archiving. So I see the $6/month as well worth it. Just giving my perspective.