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Cheaper Component to S-Video Converter - Page 22

post #631 of 694
Watching the HD feed, you will get a better picture from TCMHD. Recording 4x3 films in SD, you will get a sharper picture from TCM SD.
post #632 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

Watching the HD feed, you will get a better picture from TCMHD. Recording 4x3 films in SD, you will get a sharper picture from TCM SD.

Of course, their primary focus is on older films. I record from them a lot, with the bulk of it running from the silent era through the late 1950s, and most of that is in B&W. I've only seen their SD service. Could it be sharper in some instances ? Sure. But it's usually just fine.

They really have no serious competition as a source for most of these films. As a film buff, one thing that is more likely to bug me is when IMDB shows a running time 5, 9, or 12 minutes longer than the print TCM has . . . when the one they have access to is likely to be among the best available.

Another good channel worthy of your attention is SCIN -- Starz Cinema International.
post #633 of 694
I was wondering does anyone know if converting HDMI down to s-vid either in one or 2 converters would give a better result than down converting component or even just using s-video straight out the source (if available)? I was wondering if if starting with 1080 HDMI first up which is good quality that you may get a better end result? At least if you use good convertes i guess. I am at the point where i am collecting a few different converters, Cant keep putting it off. I think 2013 is the year where everything ends up HDMI only for outputs, at least for brand name stuff. You cant tell me they are not including component outs to save costs. The authorites are telling manufacturers HDMI only!. At least people reading this thread can be prepared.
post #634 of 694
Cyclone82, it has been reported pretty extensively in other threads that the only way to get truly good SD quality from HDMI is to spend a bloody fortune on a combination of HDfury HDMI>Component converter with one of the better Component>S-Video converters: this easily costs $400 or more (US $). Cheaper alternatives just aren't up to it: the quality varies from "not horrible" to "wow, that's bad." Unless you have a specific need for true 16:9 anamorphic, putting up with the letterboxed composite or S-video and just zooming with the TV is actually similar quality and a lot less trouble than most converters.

Since you are in Australia, the analog phase-out may not affect you as much as a North American (and even here, some of the threat is exaggerated). In North America the phase-out is mostly limited to BD players, and of course TVs have already dropped all but one analog connection set. But decoder boxes are expected to maintain analog SD outputs (composite, S-Video) for quite awhile yet (given all the older TVs still in use). We keep hearing rumors that providers will simply switch off decoder box analog component outputs remotely from their head ends, but this hasn't actually happened all that much yet because risk/reward does not favor the cable/satellite provider.

As a hedge against the future, and occasional use now, I purchased two of these popular, inexpensive generic HDMI>S-Video converters from Amazon last year. The quality is acceptable but not great: I mostly use it to obtain a full 16:9 anamorphic signal from my cable box for selected material where the need for true screen-filling 16:9 outweighs my priority for best video quality. (The units also seem to filter CP according to jjeff and others here.) The detail is surprisingly good when setting the source decoder box to 1080, but the color and contrast is a bit murky and this spoils some material. Some of us believe it is a simple IRE mismatch, with the adapter being optimized for PAL and Asian NTSC sources. While technically IRE is not supposed to be an issue with HDMI, converting it to analog may re-introduce the problem. Living in Australia, you should not be affected by this at all, and get much better results than your American friends. This same converter is sold under many different brand names from many sources, you might be able to find an Aus vendor if you don't want to import directly.

Otherwise, start saving now for the HDfury + high-end component converter. You could start with the component>S converter, because that can be used immediately to get a high-quality anamorphic 16:9 signal from your decoder box to your recorder. Later, buy the HDfury to add the option of HDMI if and when it becomes necessary. I've opted not to spend the money myself: personally, I think blowing $400+ on converters just to continue recording in SD is ridiculous. At that point, I'll move to a PC-based HDTV solution (or give up the hobby).
Edited by CitiBear - 12/7/12 at 12:12pm
post #635 of 694
To follow up on the good advise Citibear gave you, converting a good quality HD HDMI or component to S-video will NOT give you a better picture than if your device already had a S-video output. I thought as you did that since HDMI or Component are better than S-video if I could convert that high quality to S-video I'd be the better off, well that is not the case. And if using a cheaper converter(basically anything under $250 USD) it is bound to look much worse, even worse than a native composite source.
Now if you don't already have a S-video source and only have composite then maybe a >$250 USD device may be closer to S-video than composite but truthfully if you already had a good native SD composite source I'd say to just stick with that and call it good.

AFA the disappearing analog connections on modern TVs, it's real and even worse than Citibear said. I've seen several name brand HDTVs COMPLETELY omit analog inputs, ONLY hdmi and USB. A popular trend with TVs that have component is to share one of the component inputs with composite(so if your using composite you cannot use component and visa verse) which I don't care for but to totally omit analog is just plane stupid IMO. S-video is DEAD! No modern TV has this input and IMO this is a shame also but I guess just us DVDR people bother with S-video since for the vast majority of DVDs this is the best input we can use.

I also purchased one of the cheap HDMI to S-video converters, I don't use it now(because of the iffy video quality) but one day I guess I might be forced to use it.
Oh and Citibear, converting BOTH component and HDMI to composite/S-video has the potential for black level issues in N. America. This is because even though we use +7.5 IRE for SD we also use 0 IRE for both component and HDMI. If the converter doesn't take this into account and raise the black level(something I think the cheap converters don't do) we will get a muddy picture.
Edited by jjeff - 12/7/12 at 11:51am
post #636 of 694
jjeff, even though the quality leaves something to be desired, I find I'm using my (our?) cheap HDMI>S-Video converter a lot more often lately. My favorite classic movie cable channel TCM inexplicably began "windowboxing" EVERYTHING a couple months ago, and its infuriating. I don't mind zooming standard 4:3 letterboxed widescreen with my TV, but TCM is being completely ridiculous with thick black borders around everything, including old 4:3 black & white movies from 70 years ago. The image is reduced to a postage stamp on CRT 4:3 televisions, and zooming on an HDTV magnifies more crud than necessary. My cheap HDMI>S-Video adapter strips the stupid windowboxing and gives me a normal 4:3 or 16:9 signal, although it still requires futzing with the aspect controls on HDTVs and looks squeezed on 4:3 TVs. The HDMI converter does deepen the black level quite a bit, reducing details in dark scenes, OTOH it also cleans up and clarifies the blacks and whites, to a more pure neutral tone, so its a draw with old B&W. Color material varies from nice to murky.

I don't know what TCM could possibly be thinking with this crazy windowboxing.mad.gif
Their own forum is full of unhappy subscribers: I'm surprised some of the more addicted TCM fans here, like DigaDo, haven't created sticky threads to complain about it (unless I overlooked them).
Edited by CitiBear - 12/7/12 at 12:30pm
post #637 of 694
I agree with you that using a converter box like ours, while it does degrade the picture a bit, is still better than the postage stamp effect. If I were forced to record from such a source on a regular basis I'd probably break down and spend the >$250 and get a quality converter. As it is my Tivo(where I do the vast majority of my TV recording) has a very nice full screen S-video output.
Maybe our resident TCM recorder(bet he's recording TCM as I type wink.gif) will comment on whats going on with TCM in regards to the postage stamp effect.
post #638 of 694
Yeah it is pretty annoying that good TV's dont have s-video anymore. If you hunt around you can find some prosumer type broadcast HD monitors that have s-video though but not TV's.
What i have been looking for is a component to s-video converter on the same level as the HDfury but not sure if any exist.

I know there are several of these mentioned earlier. Heres a good deal on a used one. I think the same seller had/has a number of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Research-VHD-180-Professional-Quality-PC-HDTV-to-TV-Scan-Converter-/200860694159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec43af68f

These retail from around $400-$500 generally depending on brand and is probably as much as i would one to spend on a single unit. Will aim to get one after christmas probably.
Quote:
the only way to get truly good SD quality from HDMI is to spend a bloody fortune on a combination of HDfury HDMI>Component converter with one of the better Component>S-Video converters

Yep thats what i am planning. I am trying a ViewHD HDMI to component converter first though as i had read a lot of good reviews on those and seen comparisons to the HDfury and it looks fairly decent to me, even if it ends up as a back up to a HDfury i will no doubt get.. Just been waiting on the seller to send me the invoice for one. He does not list them on ebay and you got to ask. Authorites probably told him to remove it. Its also been pulled from Amazon however another similar device has popped up.

The analoge phase out here is not as bad as you guys got it yet but its comming. Component and s-video outs are just about gone as are inputs on quality devices. Scart/RGB is pretty much dead too not that it was all that common here. You pretty much get HDMI and a composte connection. Composite will probably go eventually i think.

I was looking at grabbing one of these while they were around
http://www.amazon.com/LKV381-1080P-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B009AQK25I/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1354891147&sr=8-9&keywords=hdmi%3ES-video

They seem everywhere but i believe there is a new version that shuts down if CP is detected as Lenkeng are now a HDCP adopter so i have not been sure on whoe selling the versions that are ok with HDCP still. I have seen some with different lables on the black box.

This one has vents
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LKV381A-HDMI-to-AV-Composite-S-video-Audio-Adapter-Connector-NTSC-Video-Cable-/400329057148?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item5d3578a37c

Do these get hot?

Another few i found

http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-av-converter-47628

http://dx.com/p/1080p-hdmi-v1-2a-to-component-ypbpr-vga-spidf-l-r-audio-converter-100-240v-ac-37081

http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-composite-s-video-converter-80407?rt=1&p=2&m=2&r=3&k=1&t=1&s=47628&u=80407

Who knows if they deal with HDCP or not. I am not really keen on buying one unless i knew it was un affected by HDCP
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/7/12 at 4:13pm
post #639 of 694
I have not noticed that the Lenkengs get anything more than warm and your second from the end link is basically the one I have. Your post is the first I've seen of the one with a vent but my guess is the quality is similar to all Lenkengs. That Hall Research converter looks nice and I'd guess it's top quality, although for the price I'd really expect it to be good. Altona(I think thats right) and similar Audio Authority also makes a nice units and have a Au type of case but again are over $200 USD.
We never had SCART connectors in N. America and like you said HDMI and the lowly composite(which like you said will probably go away at some point) are the prominent input/outputs left.

Personally I'd like to purchase a new larger LED TV(52-55") but lack of inputs has me looking for a second hand similar sized LCD which has all the inputs I desire. My current Sony LCD has 2 composite, 1 S-video, 2 component and 4 HDMI inputs, I use them ALL and would have to use switchers if I had any less. Things like my VCR and digital converter boxes only have composite or S-video outputs, a few of my DVDRs top out at component while my BD, DVD and a couple DVDRs have HDMI outs. Oh my TV also has a VGA computer input which is also being used biggrin.gif
post #640 of 694
Earlier in the year when i discovered the Hall Research type converters i found maybe 5 or 6 different brands that put their name on them. They originate from Cypress/CYP Taiwan. They seem to be the manufacturer. They seem to be the best available in that price range. I bought a Sima CCR-8??? (one with remote) colour corrector used a few months back and also found a new one branded CYP in germany (very hard to buy new now) and they are pretty much identical and made by the same company.I just bought 2 to see for myself. All those american brands just specify different colour cases. The current Hall component converters probably look the nicest i think compared to the cream coloured CYP ones. Prices vary greatly though.

While i think of it jjeff, i found an old thread on here where you were looking for a device that could change/set black level IRE for your international panny. I did find something the otherday but should have payed more attention because now i can not remember what it was or where it was. As soon as i saw it i thought of you though. Been trying to find it for the past hour or so. I had a feeling it was in one of the Atlona/AVT type component to s-vid convertors but it wasn't when i looked in some manuals.
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/7/12 at 6:54pm
post #641 of 694
jjeff, did you try the Shinybow converter on page 18? I am very close to pulling the trigger on one. i found out the scart one is PAL only and the non scart is NTSC only. Was going to buy one now actually but throught i would just check to see if anyone tried one yet? I dont get the upscaling part either. It surely must be a mistake. I found some spec sheets on them. One thing i like is how all the connections are at the back.
post #642 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

jjeff, did you try the Shinybow converter on page 18?
No I did not although I seem to remember another AVS member did(maybe Kjbawc??) and I seem to recall he was very satisfied with it. It looks like the same quality design(Au case with small fins on the side) that people have been very happy with.
At one point I was actively looking for a high quality component to S-video converter to replace my Sima(as a CP remover) that lightens blacks(otherwise I'm very satisfied with it) but at some point I decided I didn't really need a replacement and now use my PC more for backing up DVDs. For some things I still like to selectively copy parts and I find it much easier use my DVDRs, in this case if my source is CP'd I just live with the slight lightning of the blacks.
post #643 of 694
I have my way to convert the TCM HD window boxed 4:3 image to full frame, but the method is time consuming and requires the Fairuse Wizard program. That program can convert a DVDR recording of a video into the XviD format. You can use Fairuse Wizard to crop the borders of the image and to edit out video at the start and end points of the recording. I only used Fairuse Wizard once on a recording I made from TCM shown in the window boxed format. For some reason, Time Warner automatically set my cable box to only receive HD channels, and so I recorded "The Keyhole" from the TCM HD channel before I found out from a CSR how to revert my box to its former setting. I did not notice an appreciable difference between the XviD encode I made from TCM HD and a previous XviD file I had of this movie, made years earlier from a recording made from an TCM SD airing of "the Keyhole." Still, if you want a full frame video copy of a window boxed TCM HD airing of an SD movie, using Fairuse Wizard is one time consuming way to go. I stick to recording stuff from TCM's SD cable channel so I don't have to crop the window boxed black area if I use Fairuse Wizard to make an XviD file of a recording on my Magnavox.
post #644 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrytwo View Post

I stick to recording stuff from TCM's SD cable channel so I don't have to crop the window boxed area

It isn't as easy as that for some of us, gerrytwo: you were lucky that Time Warner helped you somehow override the output circuit in your decoder box. This "windowbox" frustration is very specific to TCM: some other channels do it but only occasionally and usually by accident. The issue with TCM is they changed their entire feed to windowboxing on BOTH the standard def channel and the "hi def" channel, so (in NYC, anyway) we lost the option of using the SD channel as an alternative. The TCM windowboxing is so persistent it often kicks in even when viewing the channel directly over HDMI from decoder box to TV. What really baffles me is how my TVs can't always shake the windowboxing, via analog or HDMI connection, but my little HDMI>S-Video converter strips it out automatically.

Whatever, I'm just glad I'd already recorded nearly everything in their rotation before they started the windowboxing.tongue.gif
post #645 of 694
I will see if i can find any reviews/comments on the Shinybow converters on here.

Nope, does not look like anyone here has bought one, well at least not commented on it.

So i ordered one. Free shipping but i had to pay tax to get it shipped to my friend in CA but i will save $ in the end as he has a couple MCM filters and a few other things to send me anyway which will still be cheaper than what HDwise wanted to charge for shipping direct to me.

https://www.hdwise.com/product.php?productid=906&cat=0&page=1
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/8/12 at 10:42pm
post #646 of 694
Possibly the reason why I do not have forced window boxing on TCM is that I use an S-video cables from the cable box to the Magnavox recorder and thence to the back of my Panasonic plasma TV (a three year old TV that still has an S-video input. I had problems when I used to have a Panasonic EH-67 HD DVD recorder which had all sorts of HDCP problems when there was an HDMI cable in any of the three HDMI inputs of the Panasonic TV. The EH-67 bit the dust after a power surge fried something in the unit, so I don't have any more handshake problems related to that DVD recorder. Even now, I usually only use one of the TV's HDMI inputs for my Western Digital media player or Philips blu-ray player ( a $70 sales priced unit at Amazon that works good enough, even if some Amazon reviewers blasted its bad remote control).
post #647 of 694
Damn, HDwise just refinded me. No reason give (yet) but i bet its because they dont have it in stock. That is the number 1 thing that pisses me off with online shops. they either list stuff they dont have or when it becomes discontinued they never remove it from their site. Even worse when sites specifically say 'item IS in stock' and they don't have it.

Now i will try and get the PAL/scart version locally and see what happens. I bet i get the same thing. I wonder if these products even eventuated. I know Greaser said he was on the wish list for ages and nothing ever even came of that.

Looks like they never had it as the page is gone now. Or maybe once they did have it because it was reduced to $134 when i bought it and was marked down. That begs the question who bought one? Surely someone on here did. If not that probably means they never had the product at all in the first place!!! and is a good advertisment for people to stay away from a company like that who is not even honest up front from the start.
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/9/12 at 2:32am
post #648 of 694
A lot to respond to here!

I do NOT have a Shiny Bow converter. I have an Atlona, an Audio Authority, and two Lenkengs, one direct from Lenkeng, and one from MonoPrice.

Cyclone 82, My advice it to record SD material from a SD channel, over S-Video, without using a converter. Only use a converter to make anamorphic recordings of wide screen material on HD channels. Personally, I find my anamorphic recordings to be sharper than letter-boxed SD recordings zoomed.

As to the TCM problem - my experience is different than Citibear's. I have TCMHD and TCMSD, from Comcast. On TCMSD, watching 4x3 films, there is sometimes a thin black "picturebox" around the 4x3 frame during the opening credits only. As soon as the credits are done, the picture fills the 4x3 frame. This is done to make sure that the credits are not cropped.

Watching wide screen material on TCMHD, there is indeed a thin black picturebox around almost all films, regardless of aspect ratio, with one exception. That exception is the rare occasion when 1.66:1 films are truly presented in their OAR. There are narrow black bars on the sides, but none on top and bottom. I would point out that on the rare occasions when 1.85:1 films are presented in their true OAR, instead of the more common 1.78:1, aka 16x9, there is a slightly wider bar on the top and bottom, as one would expect. Of course there are quite noticeably wider top and bottom bars with 2.35:1 films. 16x9 films have a uniform width of thin black bars on all four sides. I actually don't mind this too much, since I know it means I am seeing all of the image. If one has the Audio Authority, or the Atlona converter, there is an overscan/underscan switch, so one can eliminate the thin bars easily. Or, if your display overscans, or a channel frames things too tight, and so some of the image, perhaps containing subtitles, is cropped, you can set for underscan, and see everything there is to see.
post #649 of 694
2 suppliers of the SB-3681p got back to me today both said dont have them/cant get them. I ordered it from another site. They came back to me and said no stock but can be ordered but will be 4 month lead time! Will still see if i can find one easiler/quicker but if not i might order it and wait. I am not in a big rush for it but its nice to not have to wait for electronic gadgets/toys for that long when you just want to get them asap and try them out.

Heres another one i would like to try but its just too expensive right now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KRAMER-VP-701XL-COMPUTER-GRAPHICS-VIDEO-HDTV-SCAN-CONVERTER-/130816615591?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e754724a7
Would need a componet to PC terminal cable though
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/10/12 at 2:39am
post #650 of 694
kjbawc, it does seem there is some variance in the TCM "windowbox issue" between different cable systems, and satellite handles it somewhat different from cable. Its a mess.

I understand what you mean by the "mild" borders you're seeing: these are what I'd consider within normal spec. A thin black window frame around the opening credits of a 1930s 4:3 movie makes sense, and appropriate mild "letterboxing" on the top/bottom of widescreen films that are wider format than 16:9 is appropriate. This was the norm for TCM over many years, nobody has a problem with that. The issue that some of us are seeing is a recent development on several delivery systems: previously, TCM had no consistent HD channel feed, then suddenly "TCM-HD" became available. On Time Warner Cable and some other franchises, the recent emergence of "TCM-HD" has resulted in a a complete screwup of the older standard def TCM channel.

DVD recorders and VCRs rely on composite or S-Video output from the decoder box. Most cable channels have similar standard-def framing output on the analog taps for both their HD and SD versions: 4:3 material is presented as 4:3, and widescreen material is presented letterboxed in a 4:3 frame. Put another way, on an older CRT 4:3 television you would see 4:3 material fill the screen as usual, or widescreen material would show with letterbox borders top and bottom only. Modern 16:9 flat TVs would display 4:3 material as full 4:3 in the middle of the screen with black borders on the sides generated by the HDTV itself, while widescreen would show in the 4:3 space with letterbox borders top/bottom and black side borders generated by the TV itself. All that is common standard display behavior for any plasma or LCD television when connected to standard-def 4:3 or letterboxed 4:3 signals.

Where TCM has recently gone mad is the complete reformatting of its signal as 4:3 nested within 4:3, reducing the active image area by 30%. So now, old 4:3 movies appear with a huge black border on all four sides, and widescreen movies and specials appear as shrunken slits letterboxed within the newly-windowboxed 4:3 frame. When viewed on a CRT 4:3 TV, the image is reduced to unwatchable size, and on modern 16:9 TVs the set itself adds the usual automatic pillars on the sides. If you use the TV zoom to magnify the old 4:3 movies, they will appear as they should (filling the 4:3 space on a 16:9 display) but you also magnify noise and artifacts that were never seen when TCM had a proper 4:3 SD signal, and zooming results on TCM widescreen programming varies almost minute to minute. This screwed-up framing and inconsistent image size has ruined the analog output of both the existing SD channel and the newer "HD" channel, at least using TWC New York, and I've seen similar complaints from viewers in other parts of the country. The issue is consistent across my Panasonic, Samsung and Sony LCDs and both Samsung and Scientific Atlanta decoder boxes, as well as friends I've checked with.

When using the HDMI output of the decoder box to feed the TV directly, the framing accuracy improves to about 50/50: sometimes it looks like it should, often it doesn't (the most glaring example being all the Robert Osbourne and Ben Mankiewicz host segments reduced to nested letterbox within 4:3, even over true HDTV connections). Yet strangely, using an HDMI>S-Video converter patched into the DVD recorder removes all these spurious black borders and returns everything to near-normal (DVD recordings play as traditional full 4:3 or letterboxed 4:3 by setting TV display to "16:9," but look squeezed on a CRT 4:3 television). IOW, it is no longer possible to make recordings from TCM that look "normal" on both a 4:3 CRT TV and an LCD/Plasma HDTV.

Bizarre. And *really* annoying. mad.gif Although it did prompt me to thoroughly test the generic HDMI>S-Video converter I'd previously only used sporadically. Now, I keep it handy for frequent use, and I've grown accustomed to its effect on black level. Its amazing how quickly one learns to accept black level inaccuracies when the alternative is watching an 18" diagonal image on your 32" TV.
Edited by CitiBear - 12/10/12 at 5:25pm
post #651 of 694
My opinion only but I believe the TCM problem CitiBear is experiencing is caused by his local cable provider and not by TCM. I believe it might have something to do with AFD.

A couple of links for AFD

AFD from PBS in PDF format

AFD from wiki

With my cable tier I only get TCM-SD and it always looks proper on my cable fed. I think I know of a similar problem CitiBear is talking about as rarely I see the problem with other channels for instance commercials on CNN-HD. But in my case for SD recording my Motorola STB can kinda fix the problem by getting rid of the dead space – via the SD outputs it center-cuts, not zooms so no additional artifacts are introduced. If it’s a 4.3 show it will look 4:3. If it’s a 16.9 show it will look like LB 16:9.
post #652 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

My opinion only but I believe the TCM problem CitiBear is experiencing is caused by his local cable provider and not by TCM...

With my cable tier I only get TCM-SD and it always looks proper on my cable fed. I think I know of a similar problem CitiBear is talking about as rarely I see the problem with other channels for instance commercials on CNN-HD. But in my case for SD recording my Motorola STB can kinda fix the problem by getting rid of the dead space – via the SD outputs it center-cuts, not zooms so no additional artifacts are introduced. If it’s a 4.3 show it will look 4:3. If it’s a 16.9 show it will look like LB 16:9.

This is also my experience. There are other problems when one receives both TCM SD and TCM HD through Comcast. Several times since December 2009 (when Comcast added TCM HD) I've gone back to recording from TCM SD for this very reason. But I soon abandon TCM SD and return to TCM HD as Comcast adds a pop up to the SD feed (at the beginning of each scheduled programming block) advising that TCM HD may be viewed on 784. This intrudes into long running movies or shorts that run too close to the scheduled beginning of the next programming block. There are also pop-ups announcing phone calls to the Comcast telephone. We've made several unsucessful attempts to defeat these pop-ups. Not good.
post #653 of 694
CitiBear, I think it must be your provider, perhaps just what Supereye says. I watch TCMHD over HDMI, component, and component converted to S-Video. The only thing you describe that I've seen is the nested letterbox for the host segments on TCMHD. When I watch 4x3 stuff on TCM, I do so from TCMSD. That is because I am recording it to make DVDs, and I want to use as many pixels as possible. If I record 4x3 from TCMHD, I have to stretch it to get the OAR right.

DigaDo, I'm not getting that pop-up, but I did get it years ago. I only have Comcast cable, not phone, or internet. I don't know if that is the difference, or if I found something in the DVR menus to turn it off.
post #654 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

When I watch 4x3 stuff on TCM, I do so from TCMSD. That is because I am recording it to make DVDs, and I want to use as many pixels as possible.

Several of you have made this point, so in case I was not clear earlier: the option of "just go back to TCM-SD for 4:3 material" doesn't solve the problem in the NY service area. I only became aware of the issue when it manifested on TCM-SD, as I had no idea a new TCM-HD channel had been added. When I checked the SD channel against the HD channel, I discovered the feed was identical: output of either channel over analog composite or S-Video has been compromised by redundant windowboxing. HDMI output is somewhat better, but still not nearly as consistent as it was a few months ago.

My apologies for nearly hijacking this thread: my intent was to give an example of when using a flawed low-end HDMI>S-Video converter can be a better choice than a component>S-Video converter.
post #655 of 694
Sorry for the slight hi-jack but just to clear.

1) I know what DigaDo & kjbawc are stating – I don’t have TCM-HD but most of the channels I have in HD and SD work like what you two are stating and can be fixed by tuning in the SD channel.

But…

2) I also think I know what CitiBear is experiencing where the SD version won’t be without the postage stamping. When I (rarely) experience this I can tune the “HD version” of the channel and my Motorola STB will center-cut the postage stamp area out in SD. This will only work with the HD version of the channel – and only down-converted to SD via S-Vid or composite. It is not zooming anything as the HD signal is being down-converted to SD and is still using 720x480 without the postage stamp. Tuning the SD version will stay postage stamped. Tuning the HD version and watching in HD will be zoomed and result in lost pixels.
This will only work with the HD version of the channel – and only down-converted to SD via S-Vid or composite

I’m not sure if I’m explaining this right (grammar)redface.gif

Sorry for the Hi-Jack.redface.gif

More info on AFD:)
PDF Links.

AFD from gearhead technologies

AFD from ABC TV link 1

AFD from ABC TV link 2

AFD from ATSC.org see page 25
post #656 of 694
I know this is not a HDMI area but we have discussed HDMI to component convertors many times in this thread too and some were mentioned earlier on.

I got myself a ViewHD VHD-H2YVs today and thought i would tell you about it. Cost was around $97 inc shipping to Aus. I just wanted to try one of these first before going to a HDfury or Moome.
I will admit i am not an expert when it comes to picking video faults and video quality but i believe i know when i see something garbage or unacceptable and i dont think this is in that category. The video output is entirely acceptable and watcable and i cant really complain about it.
I hooked it up to a cheap Pioneer DV3022 DVD player which i got recently and put in a good quality commercial DVD and ran it upscaled to 1080p 60hz through the converter to the TV. I was surprised that my TV accepted 1080p on its input via component. The video passed through fine. I noticed the DVD had no CSS so i guess i should try one with it and see what that does. I have not got any component to s-video converters yet so i cant see how recording to DVDR will go yet. Because i dont have any HDMI splitters or other cables yet i cant check the output from this converter side by side against native HDMI or component out from the DVD player to see how much of an effect this converter has on the video. I could only switch things manually and try and remember what the paused picture looks like compared to the video bypassing the converter. So just using that method which was not very accurate i probably could say i could notice a slight difference but probably no worse than native component. I am unable to test the ViewHD out with any Blu Ray stuff yet to see how it handles HDCP but it should be fine.

Also there is no picture shift like this one from Mono price and some others

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011410&p_id=8125&seq=1&format=4#feedback

The quality of the unit is quite acceptaple with metal case. Connectors are probably on the cheap side like they usually are on these devices. They give you a 3.5mm to 2 RCA lead for the audio out (if you dont use optical) an the cable is thicker than what you normally expect to get with cables like these which are made from really thin wire. These look like it might have some shielding.
Not much more to say about it . but maybe i would add some rubber feet.

Only bad point for me is that it has no power on off switch. I could probably add a toggle switch or inline switch if i want to but for now i will leave it as i have easy access to a switch on my power board..

I would recommend this to anyone who wants a HDMI to component converter and wants one a bit better than the common Lenkeng ones which i believe are HDCP compliant now anyway, but does not want to spend as much as HDfury and the Moome.

I will probably get one of the cheaper Atlona comp500 component to s-video converters next and try it with that.
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/22/12 at 12:04am
post #657 of 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I got myself a ViewHD VHD-H2YVs today.....
.....I will probably get one of the cheaper Atlona AT Comp500 component to s-video converters next and try it with that.

I've read a lot of positive user reviews about that model of the ViewHD.That and the Atlona AT Comp 500 should make a good combo. You should get very good PQ. I do with my FuryHD + Atlona. smile.gif No citibear my FuryHD hasn't "decomposed" yet. tongue.gif

Been recording off the internet lately(i dropped my sat.sub.) with my Roku 2XS player,and it is a real good cat5>composite video converter.It has a 3.5mm to 3 RCA lead(RWY) and the cable is real thick,and of course it also has a HDMI output.Plenty of HD sources on the net(plenty of decent SD sources too),more than most people would guess.But it also gives the "no record"message when CP is encountered, frown.gif but i don't let THAT stand in my way wink.gif.
Edited by greaser - 12/22/12 at 8:08am
post #658 of 694
Available here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ViewHD-Two-Input-HDMI-to-RGB-Component-YPbPr-VGA-2x1-Switch-Converter-/271122934802?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item3f202fac12

Review on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlg1LkSx1y8

They are also working on new website still and i asked them for any component to s-video converters to fill the gap between the $30-$50 Lenkeng/Monoprice ones and the $200-$500 Cypress/AVT/ATLONA/Ambery/HALL Research ones
Edited by Cyclone82 - 12/24/12 at 3:12am
post #659 of 694
I recently tried the Monoprice Component-to-s-video converter to handle the signal between my STB and Magnavox 533. I was disappointed with the results. The picture was actually worse than what I could get with the Composite input. I fiddled with some settings on the STB and TV but nothing really helped much. I went back to my Composite input and returned the unit to Monoprice for a refund. I don't mean to say that the converter isn't any good - only that it didn't seem to work in my situation. Working with Monoprice though was very easy, and I plan to patronize them again.
post #660 of 694
^^^what was the purpose of getting the converter, was it because your STB letterboxes everything out if it's composite output? If your STB already has a wide screen output over composite I totally agree with your assessment that using such a converter will NOT improve your picture. If OTH your STB only outputs letterboxed WS from it's composite output are you saying even that is better than the MP converter? Just trying to get an idea of what you are comparing the picture quality to.
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