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Sharp XV-Z12000MK2 - Page 2

post #31 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawise View Post

Anyone have comments on the Z12000MK2 in comparison with the Samsung H710? I currently have the H710 and am very happy with picture quality, but long-term reliability is a concern. I am considering the Z12000MK2 as a backup/alternate. I've read the pro reviews, and the projectors sound comparable in terms of picture quality -- but I've not aware of any direct side-by-side comparison. Any personal experiences on how the two compare?

My general rule is that if you are happy with your projector, don't buy a new one. The reason for this is that there will be a cheaper, better projector available in the future when you actually do want to upgrade. Wait until your H710 dies and then buy a new projector.
post #32 of 2535
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Ron,
Congratulation! I just replaced the CRT in my home. The 12K is the closest you will get to that level of quality for the price.


I find a lot of this discussion funny. Not long ago before all the 1080P PJs started appearing we would have people debating is it worth the extra $ to get the Marantz (VP12S4) over the Sharp 12K. On the lower priced pieces the same discussion exists, is the Infocus worth the extra $ over an Optoma/Benq/Mits etc.

I can't remember hearing is the Sharp 12K worth the extra $ over a Mits3100. These are in different leagues. It is like considering getting an Accord/ Camry over a Lexus/ Mercedes/ BMW for the same price.

The 12K is not perfect and has its shortcomings which have been discussed - Physical size, fan noise, and not very bright. But, if these aren't an issue for you then it is a no brainer at this price. None of the other PJs near this price point touch this for PQ.

Hope this helps.

Bob

The only way size and fan noise wouldn't matter is if the PJ was mounted well behind the seating position, which many can't do. All things being equal a large PJ would be expected to either be bright OR quiet, and hopefully both. To have a physically imposing PJ be both loud and not very bright seems a bit strange in this day and age! Since the Mits HC3000 has been said to rival DC3 PJs in terms of PQ, is much smaller, and much quieter, why again would the Sharp be the better choice? I have a converted living room that is my HT, and this behemoth would be mounted 1 foot behind my seated position, clearly visible when entering the house. It's gonna be a tough sell for WAF, I need to know that the PQ is worth the battle!
post #33 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

The only way size and fan noise wouldn't matter is if the PJ was mounted well behind the seating position, which many can't do. All things being equal a large PJ would be expected to either be bright OR quiet, and hopefully both. To have a physically imposing PJ be both loud and not very bright seems a bit strange in this day and age! Since the Mits HC3000 has been said to rival DC3 PJs in terms of PQ, is much smaller, and much quieter, why again would the Sharp be the better choice? I have a converted living room that is my HT, and this behemoth would be mounted 1 foot behind my seated position, clearly visible when entering the house. It's gonna be a tough sell for WAF, I need to know that the PQ is worth the battle!

Here is another review by Cine4Home. Pick your translator.

http://cine4home.de/tests/projektore...harpZ12000.htm

I will try to address your concerns.

First, the HC3000 is not the equal of the 12k in PQ. It is really that simply. If you want better PQ go with the Sharp. If you are willing to sacrifice PQ for smaller size or less noise, go with the Mitsu.

It is not fair to label the 12k as "not bright." It is not as bright with the Iris closed. If you want it brighter, open the iris. It is simple as that. I run it that way myself when I am watching sports and don't want to be in a dark room. The HC3000 has no iris to close. Isn't it nice to have the option?

As for fan noise and size, pick your poison. Have you seen the dimensions of a Ruby, Pearl, Z20000 or RS1? Big projectors tend to be better. I can understand why you don't want to hear the fan. If you think it will bother you that much, don't get this projector. The projector is about 2 to 2 1/2 feet from my head. I hear it when it starts up. I have never been distracted by it during a movie. This is not a guarantee because it might bother you. Just my experience.

How do you plan to mount your projector?
post #34 of 2535
By all accounts, the Mits is a good pj for the price and a bit cheaper than the 12k. The difference may be significant for some and not for others. For my ceiling, the offset was the killer. The 12k has a lot of flexibility.

Perhaps a small point for waf, but the 12k has a cover for the cables and power cord.

Then again, it's not a small for my waf!

Ron
post #35 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Here is another review by Cine4Home. Pick your translator.

http://cine4home.de/tests/projektore...harpZ12000.htm

I will try to address your concerns.

First, the HC3000 is not the equal of the 12k in PQ. It is really that simply. If you want better PQ go with the Sharp. If you are willing to sacrifice PQ for smaller size or less noise, go with the Mitsu.

It is not fair to label the 12k as "not bright." It is not as bright with the Iris closed. If you want it brighter, open the iris. It is simple as that. I run it that way myself when I am watching sports and don't want to be in a dark room. The HC3000 has no iris to close. Isn't it nice to have the option?

As for fan noise and size, pick your poison. Have you seen the dimensions of a Ruby, Pearl, Z20000 or RS1? Big projectors tend to be better. I can understand why you don't want to hear the fan. If you think it will bother you that much, don't get this projector. The projector is about 2 to 2 1/2 feet from my head. I hear it when it starts up. I have never been distracted by it during a movie. This is not a guarantee because it might bother you. Just my experience.

How do you plan to mount your projector?

Is that cine4home review on the older model or on the MK2 version?
post #36 of 2535
There is only a very minor difference betwen the MK I and MK II versions of this projector. The MK I uses the Mustang chip. The MK2 uses a DC3 chip. The MK2 is reportedly slightly brighter than the MK I. Hence there is a slight difference in spec. The MK I is spec'd at 900 lumens. The MK2 is spec'd at 1000. How can anyone notice the difference? Otherwise, they are identical.
post #37 of 2535
I have a Z12k (not the MK2) and I'm pretty happy with it though I think about upgrading mainly for HDMI and 1080p support. I know I have a great pj though and don't really need to upgrade.
post #38 of 2535
A lot of the bigger PJs aren't that bright but are bigger in size such as the Marantz. They are built for the long term reliability and the light engine with larger lens takes more room. I've seen both the Mits and 12K and the 12K is the winner for PQ. If you can't live with its shortcomings then trade off for a PJ with lesser PQ at this price point. Life can be about compromises and tradeoffs. The only problem is we want it all! Believe me I understand that concept all too well.

There are options for making it quieter such as a hush box or building it into a soffit/tray on the back wall if the noise bothers you. A hush box would be huge and might not meet the WAF but a tray/soffit is usually quite acceptable. Just some food for thought.

Rawise,

The 12K is an upgrade from the 710. The 12K you will notice deeper blacks (the 710 doesn't have great blacks in comparison), shadow detail is similar with the 12K doing slightly better than the 710 but the difference won't be night and day. The 710 is brighter and has better accuracy out of the box without calibration. I agree with Lawguy don't buy it as a backup and I'd probably wait for a 1080P to upgrade. With projector prices dropping everyday you'll soon be getting 1080P PJs when you open a checking account.

Hope this helps.

Bob
post #39 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

A lot of the bigger PJs aren't that bright but are bigger in size such as the Marantz. They are built for the long term reliability and the light engine with larger lens takes more room. I've seen both the Mits and 12K and the 12K is the winner for PQ. If you can't live with its shortcomings then trade off for a PJ with lesser PQ at this price point. Life can be about compromises and tradeoffs. The only problem is we want it all! Believe me I understand that concept all too well.

There are options for making it quieter such as a hush box or building it into a soffit/tray on the back wall if the noise bothers you. A hush box would be huge and might not meet the WAF but a tray/soffit is usually quite acceptable. Just some food for thought.

Rawise,

The 12K is an upgrade from the 710. The 12K you will notice deeper blacks (the 710 doesn't have great blacks in comparison), shadow detail is similar with the 12K doing slightly better than the 710 but the difference won't be night and day. The 710 is brighter and has better accuracy out of the box without calibration. I agree with Lawguy don't buy it as a backup and I'd probably wait for a 1080P to upgrade. With projector prices dropping everyday you'll soon be getting 1080P PJs when you open a checking account.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Aloha Bob,

Thanks for all the great info. At the current price I am very close to buying one of these and selling my Panny AE900. I figure since the PJ will sit 7 feet behind and above my seating area the noise level might not matter--my XVZ3k sat right next to my head and I just could not take the noise of the fan.

One thing I saw is that the bulb is only rated to 2000 hours. Is this in eco mode? Seems so low.

Also, I have seen some say that the Sharp wartanty on this PJ is for two years. On the Sharp site it says one year. Do you know which it is?

I have also heard that Sharp even covers the bulb? Is that true? Nice if it is.

Thanks so much once again.

bdbaba
post #40 of 2535
bdbaba,

This is a big upgrade over the 900. It won't be as loud as a Sharp 3K right over your head but certainly louder than the 900.

Sharp's warranty is 1 year and 90 days on the bulb. The place selling this unit extends the warranty to 2 years and also has a 90 day return policy. I can't tell you how Sharp's service is because we have yet to have a failure with a Sharp PJ. Knock on wood.

2000 hours is correct irregardless of which mode it is in. Trust me at 2000 hours you will want a new bulb. You could probably reset it and run it in bright mode for a while but some of the higher end PJs have lower hour ratings because they know the color shifts of the bulbs as they start to decrease in brightness. Runco, Marantz, JVC, Sony Qualias are good examples. I know someone that put 4400 hours on an Infocus 777 which is only rated for 1500 hours. I personally would replace it at the recommended time and keep the old lamp for an emergency backup.

Hope this helps.

Bob
post #41 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

bdbaba,

This is a big upgrade over the 900. It won't be as loud as a Sharp 3K right over your head but certainly louder than the 900.

Sharp's warranty is 1 year and 90 days on the bulb. The place selling this unit extends the warranty to 2 years and also has a 90 day return policy. I can't tell you how Sharp's service is because we have yet to have a failure with a Sharp PJ. Knock on wood.

2000 hours is correct irregardless of which mode it is in. Trust me at 2000 hours you will want a new bulb. You could probably reset it and run it in bright mode for a while but some of the higher end PJs have lower hour ratings because they know the color shifts of the bulbs as they start to decrease in brightness. Runco, Marantz, JVC, Sony Qualias are good examples. I know someone that put 4400 hours on an Infocus 777 which is only rated for 1500 hours. I personally would replace it at the recommended time and keep the old lamp for an emergency backup.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Mahalo nui loa for all the info Bob! Very, very helpful. Have a great night.

bdbaba
post #42 of 2535
Does anyone know how many lumens the sharp puts out at 65k in high contrast mode, and if there are any overscan issues?

Oh, and any idea on bulb cost for this unit?
post #43 of 2535
According to Greg Roger's review of the Mark I, "After re-calibrating the 6500K color temperature, the projector produced 862 lumens, which is equivalent to 39.4 fL from the same screen. In the Low Power lamp mode, the brightness was reduced to 29.4 FL." That is on a 85" screen. You can figure out from there what would happen on your size screen.

There are no overscan issues with this projector. If you feed it a 720p source you have the option of displaying it pixel for pixel. Other sources scale unremarkably (meaning good). It does the best smart stretch of 4:3 material to 16:9 that I have seen absent an outboard processor.

Retail bulb costs are around $500 but you can reliably import them from Japan for $350.
post #44 of 2535
Those numbers are very different than what Ultimate AV came up with the MarkII version:
Eco / IRIS / CR / Lumens (note, converted from fL to lumens on their 80" 1.3 gain Studiotech and at D65)

Off / Med / 2400 / 231
On / Med / 2400 / 185
Off / High / 3660 / 212
On / High / 4272 / 164
Off / Low / 1233 / 522

So with it in its brightest mode = lamp on high and Iris open up it has at best 522 lumens....
post #45 of 2535
Does anyone know if this is available in the store from this retailer or only online?
post #46 of 2535
That's quite a discrepancy in brightness. I wonder if both of those reviews were done with new bulbs.

Regardless, I think I'll probably wait a bit, since 1080p units seem like they're starting to drop to more reasonable levels. I also don't want to give up the brightness of my dt-500, although the z12000 would have worked better in my room. I'm surprised at how much brighter the dt-500 is.
post #47 of 2535
I couldn't resist. After 4 years of bliss with my Piano Plus/Bravo D1/Carada B/W I had to go for it. I want to thank BobL for that original recommendation. What a marvelous 4 years it was! As I age I'm finding that waiting for gratification is more fun than early adoption.

Once again, thanks Bob!!
post #48 of 2535
Set this up yesterday. Unit is on a 22" high table top projecting onto a 92" wide high power screen. Feed is component from HD cable box and HD DVD - DVI from HTPC. With the iris open, unit is about as bright as the Infocus SP7200 (bulb had about 1,000 hrs) it replaces. But even with the iris full open the contrast far exceeds the 7200. Where this projector really "shines" is with the iris closed and the room totally darkened. The depth of image yeilded a life like picture that quickly made me forget the bright image I had favored from the 7200 and the Sanyo PLV70 that will now be retired. The fan is not as intrusive as the 7200's though certainly noticeable during quiet sceens. With the long throw and added flexibility of lens shift I will probably ceiling mount and accept the fall off in brightness on the high power screen. There are certainly better projectors out there, but I doubt there is a better value. Oh, changed the color temp to 6500K and knocked down the color saturation to about -5. I am completely satisfied.
post #49 of 2535
My 12k Mark II arrives tomorrow. I currently using HDMI cable with my Panny AX100, but since this PJ does not have a HDMI input I will need an adaptor.

Does anyone know if the unit comes with a HDMI to DVI adapter in the box?
post #50 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

My projector is set up about a foot behind the seating area and 18 inches above.

Does this mean the bottom of your screen is 18" above the seating areas as well? I am trying to make sure I understand the lens shift range as explained in the manual. The way they have it outlined in the manual (as mentioned in a previous post) seems like a severe limitation of a feature that should allow for alot of flexibility.

IOW, if I read the manual correctly, the lens must be outside of the perimeter of the projected image regardless of the lens shift. Is this correct?

RG
post #51 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Guynn View Post

Does this mean the bottom of your screen is 18" above the seating areas as well? I am trying to make sure I understand the lens shift range as explained in the manual. The way they have it outlined in the manual (as mentioned in a previous post) seems like a severe limitation of a feature that should allow for alot of flexibility.

IOW, if I read the manual correctly, the lens must be outside of the perimeter of the projected image regardless of the lens shift. Is this correct?

RG

No. Not true at all.

My projector is well within the area of the screen.

The projector must be centeredhorizontally, but you have a lot of freedom to move it vertically: ceiling, shelf, or table or anywhere in between should be no problem.
post #52 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

Where this projector really "shines" is with the iris closed and the room totally darkened. The depth of image yeilded a life like picture that quickly made me forget the bright image I had favored from the 7200 and the Sanyo PLV70 that will now be retired.

Agreed. This is where this projector really shines and what still wows me about it.
post #53 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by erniec View Post

My 12k Mark II arrives tomorrow. I currently using HDMI cable with my Panny AX100, but since this PJ does not have a HDMI input I will need an adaptor.

Does anyone know if the unit comes with a HDMI to DVI adapter in the box?

Mine had a short hdmi to dvi adapter cable in the box.
post #54 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Guynn View Post

Does this mean the bottom of your screen is 18" above the seating areas as well? I am trying to make sure I understand the lens shift range as explained in the manual. The way they have it outlined in the manual (as mentioned in a previous post) seems like a severe limitation of a feature that should allow for alot of flexibility.

IOW, if I read the manual correctly, the lens must be outside of the perimeter of the projected image regardless of the lens shift. Is this correct?

RG

That is what I found. Sitting on a table without lens shift the bottom of the image is even with the middle of the lens. Lens shift is only in the up direction. Conversely inverted from the ceiling the top will be in line with the middle of the lens and shift will only be down. The lens center cannot be within the image. This does somewhat compromise shelf placement behind my seating area. That's why I'll go with ceiling mount.
post #55 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

That is what I found. Sitting on a table without lens shift the bottom of the image is even with the middle of the lens. Lens shift is only in the up direction. Conversely inverted from the ceiling the top will be in line with the middle of the lens and shift will only be down. The lens center cannot be within the image. This does somewhat compromise shelf placement behind my seating area. That's why I'll go with ceiling mount.

Mine is shelf mounted about 5 feet off the gound. I could raise it a bit more if I were inclined but after that, I would have to flip the projector over as if I were ceiling mounting it.
post #56 of 2535
"My projector is well within the area of the screen. "

Is your projector level?

According to the manual for a table top projector the Sharp will only do edge aligned to the bottom of the screen then the lens shift can move the image up from there. It can not move it down.

So unless your unit is very odd if you are projecting from within the screen is with an unlevel projector which would in turn require digital keystone correction. Digital keystone correction is best avoided if possible as you loose resolution in doing that.

I have a Sharp on the way too and this is one issue I need to deal with. I have a HP screen and for optimal gain need the projector within the screen boundries which the Sharp can not do per the manual. So I need to see which is the better trade off... edge aligned (ceiling mount) and loss of gain or get the unit within the screen for more gain but needing digital keystone correction. I also use a HE anamorphic lens so I can try and see if I can do an optical keystone correction based on the tilt of the lens itself.

Shawn
post #57 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Mine is shelf mounted about 5 feet off the gound. I could raise it a bit more if I were inclined but after that, I would have to flip the projector over as if I were ceiling mounting it.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'd prefer to take full advantage of the high power screen by setting it on a 42" high table behind my seating area and projecting to my pull up screen that begins 24" from the floor. Without keystone, I can't get the unit to do this. I would end up with the bottom of the image about 45" off the floor. But how did you do it on a 5 Foot shelf?
post #58 of 2535
Shawn

Where in the manual are you looking?

I assure you that my projector is indeed shelf mounted about 5 feet off the ground and perfectly level. There is a lens shift dial on the top of the projector that allows me to lower the image so that it fills the screen properly. No keystoning is involved. Again, If I raise my projector much further, I would have to flip the projector and invert the image and then raise the image until it fills the screen properly.
post #59 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

Maybe I'm missing something. I'd prefer to take full advantage of the high power screen by setting it on a 42" high table behind my seating area and projecting to my pull up screen that begins 24" from the floor. Without keystone, I can't get the unit to do this. I would end up with the bottom of the image about 45" off the floor. But how did you do it on a 5 Foot shelf?

I think that you are missing something. You should have no problem placing your projector 42" off the ground and on to a screen that is 24" off the floor. Are you sure that you are using the lens shift? My setup is very similar and I have no problem.
post #60 of 2535
Lawguy,

I would love for it to work the way you are saying yours does, that is what I need too.

But the manual says the opposite, Page E-31.

Read the distance from the Lens Center to the Lower Edge of the screen.

The upper limit is 0... meaning edge aligned. The lower limit is a negative number. Down lower on the page it explains. "Values with a minus sign indicate the distance of the lens center below the bottom of the screen."

Do you have the 12000 or the 20000? The lens shift works opposite in the 20000. Actually... on re-reading the manual the manual only says XV-Z12000.... it does not say Mk II. Could that have been changed?

Shawn
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