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Sharp XV-Z12000MK2 - Page 3

post #61 of 2535
Is it possible that a lens offset was introduced in the Mark II that did not exist in the Mark I? In other words are some people relating experiences with one versus the other and hence the inconsistency? It doesn't seem likely that Sharp would change the offset -- but if not, what gives?

I am still considering buying this projector and would need to extend my ceiling mount down to have the lens fall within the bounds of the screen if there is no offset. If there is an offset, I could install it straightaway with my current setup (center of lens about 4 inches above the top of screen).
post #62 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Lawguy,

I would love for it to work the way you are saying yours does, that is what I need too.

But the manual says the opposite, Page E-31.

Read the distance from the Lens Center to the Lower Edge of the screen.

The upper limit is 0... meaning edge aligned. The lower limit is a negative number. Down lower on the page it explains. "Values with a minus sign indicate the distance of the lens center below the bottom of the screen."

Do you have the 12000 or the 20000? The lens shift works opposite in the 20000. Actually... on re-reading the manual the manual only says XV-Z12000.... it does not say Mk II. Could that have been changed?

Shawn

I see that chart in my manual. I remember seeing that before I got my projector and was worried about it but it has nothing to do with lens shift. That chart is for screen size and projector distance. It is not meant to comment on vertical lens shift. Trust me.
post #63 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawise View Post

Is it possible that a lens offset was introduced in the Mark II that did not exist in the Mark I? In other words are some people relating experiences with one versus the other and hence the inconsistency? It doesn't seem likely that Sharp would change the offset -- but if not, what gives?

I am still considering buying this projector and would need to extend my ceiling mount down to have the lens fall within the bounds of the screen if there is no offset. If there is an offset, I could install it straightaway with my current setup (center of lens about 4 inches above the top of screen).

If it works the way the manual says, you should have no problem. The disparity here is that the manual says the lens has to be outside the screen area, but lawguy has his on the inside, and pennstater says his works as the manual implies. I was/am considering this PJ, but this point is critical for me.
post #64 of 2535
From Greg Rogers' review:

Quote:


Optimally, the center of the projector lens should be level with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or at the bottom of the screen when table mounted. But the lens shift function will allow the projector to be positioned at any height between the top and bottom of the screen. The projector can be tilted if it must be located above or below the screen, but this will cause the picture to keystone. Digital Keystone Correction and an accompanying vertical size adjustment can be used to restore the image to a perfect rectangle. But the digital keystone correction produces moiré patterns on closely spaced vertical lines, so it should be avoided if possible.

It's not an issue guys. Don't worry about it.
post #65 of 2535
See, now that is what I would have expected (and desire).... why is penn's different (or seemingly so)?
post #66 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawise View Post

Is it possible that a lens offset was introduced in the Mark II that did not exist in the Mark I? In other words are some people relating experiences with one versus the other and hence the inconsistency? It doesn't seem likely that Sharp would change the offset -- but if not, what gives?

I am still considering buying this projector and would need to extend my ceiling mount down to have the lens fall within the bounds of the screen if there is no offset. If there is an offset, I could install it straightaway with my current setup (center of lens about 4 inches above the top of screen).

The unit i just received has the Mark II label on it. If I were to invert it and ceiling mount the lens shift would allow the top of the image to start any where from the middle of the lens down up to one entire screen height. But, I cannot get the lens shift to work the other way. Maybe my unit is defective.
post #67 of 2535
I did a search and found a similar discussion here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827963

If seems that at least some owners have the same limited lens shift function that does not allow placement of the center of the lens within the image.

When someone else sets one up please let me know if indeed my lens shift should work in both directions.
post #68 of 2535
"That chart is for screen size and projector distance. It is not meant to comment on vertical lens shift.

Sure it is. If it was just screen size there would be no reference to the limits of min/max screen height relative to the lens at the various throws. The same page in the 20000 manual further expands on the lens shift with diagrams showing the various offset abilities.

Shawn
post #69 of 2535
"From Greg Rogers' review:"

Isn't that from the review of the XV-Z20000?

The lens shift on the XV-Z20000 is opposite of what the XV-Z12000 has. Read both manuals.

Shawn
post #70 of 2535
Double checked and that is from the review of the 12000. Here is hoping that is accurate as that is what I need for lens shift to work with the HP. My unit is supposed to be arriving tomorrow so I will know for sure then.

Shawn
post #71 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

I did a search and found a similar discussion here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827963

If seems that at least some owners have the same limited lens shift function that does not allow placement of the center of the lens within the image.

When someone else sets one up please let me know if indeed my lens shift should work in both directions.

Everyone in that thread appears to be speaking hypothetically as opposed to from experience.

Another reviewer confirms my experience:

Click

Quote:


The lens shift adjustment on the XV-Z12000 allows the projector to be positioned anywhere from the bottom to the top of the screen. Ideally, we prefer not to use the keystone correction (due to image degradations), so we placed the projector to produce a perfectly rectangular image.

Can you confirm that you are, in fact, using the lens shift dial located on the top of the projector?
post #72 of 2535
Yes the lens shift dial moves easily only in the up direction. I did not attempt to force it past resistance in the down direction. I will gently try this evening. Thanks for the help.
post #73 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

Yes the lens shift dial moves easily only in the up direction. I did not attempt to force it past resistance in the down direction. I will gently try this evening. Thanks for the help.

Hopefully it is just a bit stuck. I am sure that you removed the two foam pads surrounding the lens?
post #74 of 2535
Removed the ONE i saw with the big tag on top of the lens. I did not see one on the bottom. Of course that would explain it not rotating down. I'm anxious to get home and check. Much prefer not to ceiling mount. Many thanks.
post #75 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

Yes the lens shift dial moves easily only in the up direction. I did not attempt to force it past resistance in the down direction. I will gently try this evening. Thanks for the help.

Aloha pennstater,

I am ready to buy this now as well, but I am very curious what you find out about how the lens shift works. If it has the limitations some are saying here, it might be a problem for my tricky room set-up. Look forward to hearing what you find.

Thanks,

bdbaba
post #76 of 2535
Did some more searching. The XV-Z9000 manual is interesting. It has pretty much the same chart as the Z12000, (same wording, same numbers) but on the next page it has diagrams that show the lens shift. It shows it as Lawguy describes, shifting within the screens edges.

So here is hoping the "Values with a minus sign indicate the distance of the lens center below the bottom of the screen."

is just incredibly poorly worded and you are supposed to apply the negative number against that statement. In other words -3' below the bottom of the screen.... or in other words 3 feet above the bottom of the screen.

The wording in the X20000 manual is far more clear and has diagrams to back it up.

Lens shift like that would be much easier for me to deal with and would complement the HP screen... fingers crossed.

Lawguy... any recommendations on initial settings for the best out of the box color accuracy?

Thanks,

Shawn
post #77 of 2535
Shawn,

I have done a lot of tinkering, but my favorite settings are: high contrast, economy lamp, color temp at 6500k, standard picture, and dynamic contrast. Sometimes I prefer the natural picture setting.

I don't think that colors are dialed in precisely at 6500k but they are very close. Images just are incredibly three dimensional and lifelike. After coming from an LCD projector, as I did, that I thought had pretty good blacks, it was very surprising to see the vastly superior blacks that the 12k is capable of. It is best seen rather than described.

The onboard scaler is also excellent and underrated. It does a great job of taking 4:3 material and converting it to 16:9. I also have my cable box set to pass through because the 12k does a much better job of scaling than the cable box does. Make sure you do this.

There is an old Z12000 calibration thread that has been archived. I tried the settings that were recommended there but I went back to the standard ones because they looked better in my opinion.

The HP screen is a great pairing with this PJ, let me know how it all turns out.

Steve
post #78 of 2535
Steve,

Thanks, I'll give them a whirl. BTW, if you check out the WSR of the XV-Z10000 it specifically mentions that the instruction manual is wrong about how the lens shift works.... so horray there! Thanks for setting me straight on that, that is good news.

"After coming from an LCD projector, as I did, that I thought had pretty good blacks, it was very surprising to see the vastly superior blacks that the 12k is capable of. It is best seen rather than described."

I had a filtered AE900 before this and JVC G10 before that. So I would expect the black level to improve quite a bit and the ANSI contrast on this is far better. This has ANSI contrast close to what the on/off contrast of the G10 was!

My big concern is simply that it is a DLP. With older slower color wheel units I have viewing problems (carsick/headaches) watching them but I have never spent much time with a 5x 7 segment unit. So it will be interesting to see how that turns out. My other concern is SDE, my front row on 2.35ar material is at just about 1x screen width. And noise as the thing will be very close overhead for the second row. If it ends up a keeper I might go hushbox as I did with the G10.

"The onboard scaler is also excellent and underrated."

Sounds like it from the reviews, but I have a Lumagen which I need for the constant height screen I run.

Thanks,

Shawn
post #79 of 2535
Funny about that review because I didn't notice it when I looked!

If SDE was acceptable on you the AE900, it will be much improved on the 12k.

You will have to judge the noise for yourself. to me it is not so loud that I would consider a hushbox. You may disagree. I've got tons of fans in all kinds of components so this one did not put it over the edge.

I may be very lucky or have bad eyes, but I have have noticed no dlp-related issues like RBE or eye fatigue. I even watched Sin City because people swear that you cannot watch that movee and not see rainbows. None for me. I'm not complaining.

Good luck and post what you see.

Steve
post #80 of 2535
Steve,

"If SDE was acceptable on you the AE900, it will be much improved on the 12k."

It was but just. I could just see it in my front row on white text and such. If the 12k is better then the AE900 that should be OK.

"I've got tons of fans in all kinds of components so this one did not put it over the edge. "

So do I, but for that reason none of them are in my theater.


I'll let you know how it goes after I get some time with it. If it does not whip the Hitachi Home-1 I have been temporarily using (sold the AE900 a few months ago expecting to get the RS-1 in Feb.) something is seriously wrong.

Thanks,

Shawn
post #81 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Funny about that review because I didn't notice it when I looked!

If SDE was acceptable on you the AE900, it will be much improved on the 12k.

You will have to judge the noise for yourself. to me it is not so loud that I would consider a hushbox. You may disagree. I've got tons of fans in all kinds of components so this one did not put it over the edge.

I may be very lucky or have bad eyes, but I have have noticed no dlp-related issues like RBE or eye fatigue. I even watched Sin City because people swear that you cannot watch that movee and not see rainbows. None for me. I'm not complaining.

Good luck and post what you see.

Steve

Aloha Lawguy,

You have a PM!

Thanks,

bdbaba
post #82 of 2535
Lawguy,

Do you have the original Z12000 or the Mark II version that came with the DC3 chip?

Moe
post #83 of 2535
I don't have this projector, but the way I interpret the manual, and the way I've always understood this lens shift to work (9k, 10k, and 12k) is that the pj can be placed anywhere within the thrown picture. That is, it can be level with the top, level with the bottom, and anywhere in between. I have the XV-Z200 and the shift works in the same way. In the manual, the first offset number(Z1) is "0" because the lens is even with the bottom edge of the screen. The second number(Z2) is negative because the bottom of the screen is that much lower then the lens. Pennstater, if what you are saying is correct, and you really can not adjust your image so the pj can be anywhere within the projected image perimeter, than I'd say you have a defective unit.

Rob
post #84 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipplemeyer View Post

Lawguy,

Do you have the original Z12000 or the Mark II version that came with the DC3 chip?

Moe

I have a MKI.

Truth is there really is only a small difference. TI changed the DC2+ process to make the dimple hinge slightly less apparent. This results in slightly better contrast and slightly better light output. Hence there is a slight spec change. I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Other than the chip, the projectors are identical.

Pennstater will assuredly post later about whether he left in the second foam insert and whether he can now use lens shift properly.
post #85 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Hopefully it is just a bit stuck. I am sure that you removed the two foam pads surrounding the lens?

That's it. Did not see the bottom one last night. Shifts up and down. Perfect for shelf placement at about 42 inches. Can't say thanks enough.
post #86 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

That's it. Did not see the bottom one last night. Shifts up and down. Perfect for shelf placement at about 42 inches. Can't say thanks enough.

Great! That makes things sooo much easier......

Shawn
post #87 of 2535
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Great! That makes things sooo much easier......

Shawn

That was fun!
post #88 of 2535
To the few who seem to have this pj already, how is the image sharpness on this model? Would you say that it is sharper and more detailed than its little brother the Sharp Z3000? I'm curious because one of the primary things I want to upgrade is the image sharpness.

Moe
post #89 of 2535
Pulled the trigger this morning. Mine is on the way. Much Mahalo for all the great info. Steve, you are the MAN!

Aloha!

bdbaba
post #90 of 2535
Seeing the XV-Z9000 manual along with the above conversation confirming the lens shift made me pull the trigger as well. I don't think another similarly priced/featured pj with lens shift that can take advantage of the HP will come around anytime soon.

BTW, here's a really great post on the gain vs. angle of the HP: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post5862849

Since I'm going to be using this 50/50 with lights vs. blacked out, 2x+ the ftL in high brightness mode will be nice.
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