or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Dual Format Players › BD-UP5000 Universal Player from Samsung [pre release]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

BD-UP5000 Universal Player from Samsung [pre release] - Page 2  

post #31 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

How?

I think it makes the war irrelevant.

Not to detract from what could be a great player, but I have to agree with the earlier post.

It keeps the war going instead of allowing a natural winner to emerge. Instead of two options, consumers have 3, the combo option most likely being the most expensive, meaning more waiting for prices to fall and slower adoption of an HD optical format. And the less players that sell, the less the price can come down on them since production will be kept lower. So it's more wait, wait, wait for the do-everything player that's actually affordable. People will be torn between cheap players that can play only one of two formats and an expensive player that can play both.

Knowing one format will likely die anyway, they'll continue to sit it out so they can save money down the road. All this becomes too much to bother with for the average consumer to deal with, and they're more bound just to stick by their trusty DVDs until all the dust settles. Not everyone is as passionate about this stuff as we are, and that's what hurts the growh of HD. KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. Combo units make a complicated mess even more complicated. They are great for the avid videophile perhaps, but won't help mass market penetration.

Just my POV. If it's true that retailers hate a format war and start offering more Blu-ray and less HD-DVD, then the combo units will eventually prove unncecessary. I don't know how many J6Ps know that HD-DVD has less studio support, but retailers may start "telling" them by just pulling HD-DVD in favor of the ever-increasing Blu-ray sales.
post #32 of 2339
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Hmm... that is interesting, though I'm not so sure they aren't talking about a PC drive.

The written article speaks about a player, and shows a photo of it.
post #33 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

Not to detract from what could be a great player, but I have to agree with the earlier post.

It keeps the war going instead of allowing a natural winner to emerge. Instead of two options, consumers have 3, the combo option most likely being the most expensive, meaning more waiting for prices to fall and slower adoption of an HD optical format. And the less players that sell, the less the price can come down on them since production will be kept lower. So it's more wait, wait, wait for the do-everything player that's actually affordable. People will be torn between cheap players that can play only one of two formats and an expensive player that can play both.

Knowing one format will likely die anyway, they'll continue to sit it out so they can save money down the road. All this becomes too much to bother with for the average consumer to deal with, and they're more bound just to stick by their trusty DVDs until all the dust settles. Not everyone is as passionate about this stuff as we are, and that's what hurts the growh of HD. KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. Combo units make a complicated mess even more complicated. They are great for the avid videophile perhaps, but won't help mass market penetration.

Just my POV. If it's true that retailers hate a format war and start offering more Blu-ray and less HD-DVD, then the combo units will eventually prove unncecessary. I don't know how many J6Ps know that HD-DVD has less studio support, but retailers may start "telling" them by just pulling HD-DVD in favor of the ever-increasing Blu-ray sales.

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.
post #34 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Why would Samsung try to venture where LG has failed, and do so when it appears they are on the winning side.

LG, a 2nd-tier CE manufacturer, released a lackluster, not fully HD DVD compliant player for $1200 list. It sold about like might be expected, when one could just buy two better-brand units and be neutral for less. The people who would care most about the elegance of having one player aren't going to want LG.

Samsung, OTOH, got hung out to dry by the BDA last year and took a reputation beating as a result. Now, companies aren't known for emotional reactions, but it would be a fair hedge move on their part to see if they can clean up in the niche market and recoup some brand cachet by having something much better than the LG for say $800 list.

Plus they've been talking about doing this forever.
post #35 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

The written article speaks about a player, and shows a photo of it.

It would be awesome if you could scan (or take a snap of) that photo and post it. You can upload to the forum directly or host it and hotlink someplace like imageshack.

What do you say?
post #36 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Well, then that is mass confusion all together. Why would Samsung try to venture where LG has failed, and do so when it appears they are on the winning side. Not to mention they are just releasing their second gen BD player. Sometimes it just so impossible to get into the head of an exec


I heard that the LG unit is selling like "hotcakes." Why do you say "failed?"
post #37 of 2339
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore View Post

It would be awesome if you could scan (or take a snap of) that photo and post it. You can upload to the forum directly or host it and hotlink someplace like imageshack.

What do you say?

Here it is.
post #38 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

Here it is.

Unfortunately thats an image of the BD-P1200.
post #39 of 2339
Yeah, but who knows how different it would look? Maybe they made a mistake or someone at Samsung told them it was going to be pretty much the same box, so they just used an old photo. The guy is apparently holding up the head of the combo player on the right. This doesn't smell like the usual hoax/vaporware thing to me.

robena: thanks for the scan! Very interesting. This summer will be crazy.
post #40 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.


We're not playing in the format war to start with.

It's the studios that play in it. We're hapless victims of it. Now I know for the sorry lot that were drawn into the hype that the comeback kid by Toshiba was going to sieze the day and outdo the Champion out of the gate and win it that quick, so those people desperately want their investment into HD DVD, sizable for some (including me), to be worthwhile, I think you are not reading what was posted.

Universal players add a third option to a marketplace that already has too many options. General consumers don't go into a market that seems frought with uncertainty. Right now, they are holding back on BD and HD DVD to a large extent BECAUSE of that uncertainty. Throw in an expensive player that says it plays both, but not officially on one just confuses them. They say, "Why are there two standards? One of them is bound to go away."

They wait even longer.

One format wins though and the uncertainty vanishes. Universal could end this now and return certainty to the marketplace. Sure, the very small minority of consumers that have already invested in HD DVD would lose out on new discs, but they would go ahead and invest in BD now rather than wait, which would give Blu-ray that much needed push to finally come that much closer to mainstream.

As it is, consumers aren't jumping in because they're not sure what's going to play out. Dual format players don't fix this problem, they make it worse by throwing out lots of different options to confuse and delay.

Why do you think Samsung dropped the idea of a dual format player last year?

And do you really think the STUDIOS want to produce both formats? It costs them extra money to make discs on both formats because a small market is made smaller by being divided in half with different encodes (by the studios who care enough to do it), different cases, different SKU's.

Then the retailers care because they have to create shelving space for two different versions of the same movie in high definition because of dual format players extending the war.

So we aren't playing in it, but we are certainly going to be hurt by it in the longterm when high def disc prices don't drop below that 20 mark they're at now due to economies of scale not favoring a two format market.

And do consumers really want to pay more for a player that plays both? Or worse have to buy two players just to get all the movies they want?

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.

The war needs to end. Universal needs to end it now. Just like has been said, even if Universal went neutral, your discs you've already bought would not stop working.
post #41 of 2339
Yep - always knew that the Samsung was coming. Nice to see it at last.

EDIT - a translation has clarified my concern, so I've updated the post.

Making 1080p only on BD would be a HUGE mistake and would anger many of those potential customers they are looking for. PARTICULARLY when one realizes that having TWO separate players could be a cheaper and better option, if this info is correct.

(It appears that the BD-UP5000 will do 1080p output for both HD DVD and Bluray. However, what is not know for sure is whether 1080p24 will be the same for both. This affects ardly anyone, tho, as most users will use 1080p60 output in their setups.

BTW - Are there any Broadcom-based dual format players in the pipeline??
post #42 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisko197 View Post

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.

Hmmm, lets see, WHO broke away from the DVD forum on this issue? That's right Sony. They had yet another chance to create a new, proprietary format.
post #43 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by robena View Post

The BR players that output 1080p/24 do so by bypassing any processing, which is easy since movies are encoded at 1080p/24.

HD-DVD uses 1080i/60 flags, so it's less easy. There is no standardized way yet to output 1080p/24. Toshiba will probably go to the 1080p/24 -> 1080i/60 -> 1080p/24 route to do it.

Samsung, apparently, did not feel like adding a de-interlacer to their player.

You can bypass the processing for the HD DVD 1080p output as well. The presence of 60i flags in the 1080p stream does not make one require a deinterlacer. The Samsung dual format player should be able to support the same output for both formats - no excuse not to.

The failure of Samsung to deliver this feature on this player would likely be entirely the fault of the chipset provider being unable or unwilling to make it work for both.

Broadcom indicated a willingness and desire to make the most of both formats. The more dual format players the better, IMO.

If the Samsung TRULY does not output 1080p for HD DVD, then their player will be wiped out by the first competitior that comes to market with a player that DOES. It would be extremely foolish for them to launch like that, IMO.

If this is really true of the Samsung, and 1080p is crippled
post #44 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore View Post

LG, a 2nd-tier CE manufacturer, released a lackluster, not fully HD DVD compliant player for $1200 list. It sold about like might be expected, when one could just buy two better-brand units and be neutral for less. The people who would care most about the elegance of having one player aren't going to want LG.

Samsung, OTOH, got hung out to dry by the BDA last year and took a reputation beating as a result. Now, companies aren't known for emotional reactions, but it would be a fair hedge move on their part to see if they can clean up in the niche market and recoup some brand cachet by having something much better than the LG for say $800 list.

Plus they've been talking about doing this forever.

You don't really know much about LG, do you?
post #45 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

The failure of Samsung to deliver this feature on this player would likely be entirely the fault of the chipset provider being unable or unwilling to make it work for both.

Agreed. The Toshibas are already down into the low $300 range - CC has the A2 shown for $399 with a $50 rebate, and I've seen the A20 at just over $400. By the time this universal player will be released, you can bet the A2 will be gone and replaced by the A20 at the lower price point.

It's also pretty safe to say that there will be lower-priced players in both BD and HD DVD by the summer. I'd bet it will be easily possible to have two players with 1080p/24 capability for $800 or less before the Samsung would be released.

So.....why would it be a good deal without 1080p/24 for both formats?
post #46 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Buying a "Universal" player prolongs the format war...so DON'T!

No it doesn't. It makes it irrelevant. Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

EDIT:

Rutgar beat me to it.
post #47 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

You don't really know much about LG, do you?

Facts: 1. LG is second fiddle to Samsung, both in market share and quality. 2. It is possible to buy an HD DVD player and a BD player for less than the BH100.

Or was it something else I said? What do you disagree with? Enlighten me.
post #48 of 2339
You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.
post #49 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.

I agree. One of the best Hi-Def tuners I ever owned was an LG. I only got rid of it to get a HD DVR. And LG didn't make one of those.
post #50 of 2339
1080/24p is not technically part of the HD DVD spec. Not having something not in the spec is hardly something to criticize.

If this player is real (I think it is), and does everything claimed by the OP, and does it for under a grand, that would be a big deal.
post #51 of 2339
I guess I interpreted the info differently than some of you guys. I interpreted that 1080p will be supported on both formats. But 24fps only on BD. Based on the differences between the formats presented in some of the posts, I figured 1080p/60 would be the only HD-DVD output, as opposed to 60 and 24 support for BD.

I would seriously doubt there would be no 1080p whatsoever for HD-DVD.
post #52 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.

It was my mistake to put that as a "fact" above, since it is indeed just my opinion. And I don't think LG is bad at all, in fact, I defended them here against some negative comments and the link to the "Goldstar" brand a couple of months ago, which was very unfair. Second in quality to Samsung is still really good, but yes, it is an opinion.
post #53 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

Ask JSP what he thinks of that "war."

OK, so you are not old enough to remember the DVD and Divx War.
Divx machines also played regular DVDs.
And the rest, as they say, is history.

Eventually, Circuit City took a 100 million dollar write off on that clusterf*ck.
I wonder who ultimately paid for that?
post #54 of 2339
Translation of the piece:

Quote:


Blu-ray and HD DVD: Samsung too!

During an exclusive event Samsung invited us to late February, it unveiled the future hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player which will launch in July: the BD-UP5000.

Cosmetically it is very similar to the BD-P1200, the single-format Blu-ray player which will come out in April in the US.

This "Duo HD Player", as the CE maker calls it, will be 100 percent operational as regards interactivity, both on Blu-ray (BD-J) as on HD DVD (HDi).

It will have an HDMI 1.3 output and it will support all the new audio formats.

It will also be possible to setup the HDMI output at 1080/24p, but only for Blu-ray.

"It's because this option is not standardised on HD DVD yet", was the explanation.

For DVD upscaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p), Samsung has chosen DCDi processing (as opposed to HQV on the BD-P1200) for "cost reasons".

No final price has been disclosed, but Samsung is looking at a 10 percent price differential over the single-format Blu-ray players.

In other news, the European launch of the BD-P1200 has been delayed without a date.

[caption: Dr. Shin, the father of the BD-UP5000, holds the 3-laser-diode drive specially designed for this player.]
post #55 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore View Post

Facts: 1. LG is second fiddle to Samsung, both in market share and quality. ...snip...


Not in the Majap world (Major Appliances).
post #56 of 2339
Man, how many Sammys will that be now?
post #57 of 2339
so this confirms another exclusive BD CE going neutral!! and yupe HD DVD will be dead by year end

how come i have a feeling that this wont be the only standalone player capable of playing HD DVD from Samsung? ... another player that plays HD DVD only maybe
post #58 of 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurboZX View Post

Don't these dual format players cost significantly more than single format players? If so, I wouldn't waste my money since HDDVD is probably going to be dead by the end of the year anyways.

Troll.
post #59 of 2339
I'd like to see official word from Samsung about this but I expected them to announce one of these a few months ago.

I forsee in about 2 years from now almost every single player available will be dual format and cost $200.

(Except of course the PS3 which will only play half the movies and still cost about $400)
post #60 of 2339
Am I alone to believe that these first generation so-called uniplayers will be bug ridden and extremely expensive?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dual Format Players
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Dual Format Players › BD-UP5000 Universal Player from Samsung [pre release]