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Help me with Acoustical Treatments please

post #1 of 18
4/2/07 at 9:19am
Thread Starter 
The room size is 12x13, here are pictures of the setup:


- front wall


- right wall


- back wall


- left wall



- first reflection points (according to the app found in this forum)

as you can see, its a small setup. I do get a lot of ringing at times. There's also no room for bass traps in corners. I've been looking at GIK/realtraps for the treatments but i need some help/advice as to where to put the treatments (i guess it will mainly be for the first reflection points). I will also be getting new blinds for my room (i dunno if there are any blinds that will help w/ the back wall or what).

edit: my room has a semi thick carpet and the bed is a huge king size termpurpedic celebrity. Speakers are RC-Mini's and sub is the s8.3.
edit2: i've also ordered the Lovan M2 Center Channel Stand, which will raise the center channel so it will be right below the TV.

thank you
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post #2 of 18
4/2/07 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

I've been looking at GIK/realtraps for the treatments but i need some help/advice as to where to put the treatments (i guess it will mainly be for the first reflection points).

All rooms need first reflection treatment as well as bass trapping. Especially a nearly square room like yours. There's a huge amount of advice on exactly what you're asking in the How To section of the RealTraps site. The Placing RealTraps page in particular explains what you need and where to put it. Of course, you're welcome to email me personally too.

--Ethan
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post #3 of 18
4/2/07 at 8:19pm
You can place bass traps (GIK, ATS or RealTraps) in the corners between the walls and the ceiling. This will give the room a "coved" look, and will still be effective for sound treatment.

You can also get 2" panels, mount them at 2" stand-off from the wall, on areas that are currently undecorated -- you could place 3 2' wide by 4' tall such panels, possibly in three different colors (white/gray/black, say) on each of the right/left walls. You could also put panels from the windows out towards the walls on the back wall. (IMO, dampening the back wall is always a good idea).

The main question is how much money you want to spend, and what aesthetic constraints you have. Going mostly gray, with a few red panels for accent would probably look crisp in that room, IMO.
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post #4 of 18
4/3/07 at 12:24pm
Thread Starter 
the concern is not the money, but aesthetic concerns...this room is looking less and less like a bedroom everyday heh, and 2'x4'x4" hung flat on walls or positioned at wall/ceiling corners takes away from the already limited real estate of the room....i don't want it to look overbearing, but I don't think I'll have any other choice if I decide to do this. I can either cut back on the number of panels, maybe get smaller sized panels (1'x3'x4" or something), or think of a creative way to make it look like art/decoration.

suggestions welcome

thanks
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post #5 of 18
4/4/07 at 4:09am
Out of curiosity, what is that software you are referring to?
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post #6 of 18
4/4/07 at 5:24am
The easiest way to find the first reflections(for the main seat) is to:

Take a lamp and take the light shade off
Place lamp bulb aat ~ear height in min listening seat and turn it on.
Take a compact or other small mirror and move it along the wall until the light is reflecting on the tweeter of one of the speakers. Do the same for the other drivers.
Repeat for the other speakers.
Center treatments across the markings you made for each first reflection.

I would start by doing only the front left/right reflections. These are the most critical. The center is hard to do as it requires a treatment in the middle of the floor. A rug will suffice.

You may find that this fixes most of the ringing.
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post #7 of 18
4/4/07 at 11:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh74 View Post

Out of curiosity, what is that software you are referring to?

here you go: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822273

poormanq45,
thanks for your input, yeh the high notes seems to be coming at me twice :/
i'm most likely gonna start w/ few panels as i don't want to overwhelm the room (2x4 is no joke for my small room!) lol
as for the center, i dont think thats a prob b/c i have heavy carpet and a huge bed in front to absorb.
I'll prob start w/ the first refelction points, maybe on the back wall too, and well, i'll think about some wall/ceiling corner points since they will be angled, it'll take up too much space.
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post #8 of 18
4/4/07 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

here you go: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822273

poormanq45,
thanks for your input, yeh the high notes seems to be coming at me twice :/
i'm most likely gonna start w/ few panels as i don't want to overwhelm the room (2x4 is no joke for my small room!) lol
as for the center, i dont think thats a prob b/c i have heavy carpet and a huge bed in front to absorb.
I'll prob start w/ the first refelction points, maybe on the back wall too, and well, i'll think about some wall/ceiling corner points since they will be angled, it'll take up too much space.

Yeah that software is great to find first reflections.

Don't go overboard putting up absorbtion around the room because it could lead to a dead sound.

Something to consider, is using diffusion also. It can be as simple as a large bookshelf filled with plenty of different sized books to provide a way for the sound to bounce off and go off in random directons. The basic idea is to make your front wall as dead as possible, as well as catching all your first reflections with absorbtion. Diffusion can help you on your sides and rears with your surround speakers becoming more diffuse because of the diffusion.

But the most important thing you can do is catch the first reflections from your L/C/R speakers on the walls, ceiling, and floor.
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post #9 of 18
4/4/07 at 5:46pm
Ideas about making treatment look like art:
Auralex Gallery
ATS Acoustics Designer Fabric Treatments
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post #10 of 18
4/4/07 at 7:23pm
Some general acoustic treatment should show some good results in your room. One thing is for sure, the mirrored closet and dresser as well as the window are not helping with the strength of your reflections.
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post #11 of 18
4/5/07 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
hmm....the audio tile is very interesting: http://www.auralex.com/partscience/a...oTile__Gallery

what application can that be use in? as in, would it work for my room? What is "broadband" absorption?

i'm actually emailing back and forth with both Ethan and Bryan and they both have helped out a lot. I'm probably going to go w/ 4 panels for each wall-ceiling corners and 2 panels for my first reflection points...just gonna decide btwn realtraps and gik (any user input?)...but this audiotile looks very intersting!
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post #12 of 18
4/5/07 at 8:04pm
Quote:


what application can that be use in? as in, would it work for my room? What is "broadband" absorption?

Yes, it can be used in your room. "Broadband" means that it absorbs across the frequency spectrum (bass, mid and treble). The audio tile isn't thick enough to do much bass management, but your bed probably helps with that :-) The audio tile will likely get rid of the worst slap echo.

The GIK, ATS or RealTrap panels absorb better than the AudioTile, but are bigger.
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post #13 of 18
4/6/07 at 4:42am
Just understand that the audiotile isn't going to be remotely close to broadband.

Bryan
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post #14 of 18
4/6/07 at 7:17am
I don't think your speaker placement is optimal. Before you start investing in acoustic treatments you might want to consider moving your front 2 speakers off the walls and on stands.
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post #15 of 18
4/6/07 at 7:55pm
Quote:


Before you start investing in acoustic treatments you might want to consider moving your front 2 speakers off the walls and on stands.

In a small room, that's not going to help a lot. If the speaker fronts are 1 foot from the front wall, you'll get (quarter wavelength) the first null at 250 Hz. If the speaker fronts are at 1 feet out, the null will move down to 125. In my opinion, he'd be better off treating the wall behind the speaker, to avoid the reflective cancellation. Although that should ideally be a 4" pad, not the audiotile.
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post #16 of 18
4/6/07 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwatte View Post

In a small room, that's not going to help a lot. If the speaker fronts are 1 foot from the front wall, you'll get (quarter wavelength) the first null at 250 Hz. If the speaker fronts are at 1 feet out, the null will move down to 125. In my opinion, he'd be better off treating the wall behind the speaker, to avoid the reflective cancellation. Although that should ideally be a 4" pad, not the audiotile.

But <><'s Energy RC minis speakers are direct radiators designed for best response on axis. Placed in the upper coners as they are, are no where near or close to on axis relative to the listening position. All the sound reaching the listening position is reflective with this placement. Kind of defeating the purpose of "direct radiators, " no?
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post #17 of 18
4/7/07 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprung2 View Post

I don't think your speaker placement is optimal. Before you start investing in acoustic treatments you might want to consider moving your front 2 speakers off the walls and on stands.

well, i dont really have room to put them anywhere else and no place for stands and I really didn't think of reflection, optimal placement till after i already ran the wires and installed them....i just wanted them a lil outta the way so i thought the wall corners would be a good place...

i've decided on the 6 panels as i posted above (4 for wall-ceiling corners, 2 first reflection points and thinking of white panels all the way around as it will blend in better) and see how that works out for my room. I don't know if I need to place anything directly around the wall near the speaker for reflection or if anything will help that either.

Also, I believe the window on my left wall will come in the way (i haven't really checked, just goin by the screen shot of the program i used above) of my first reflection point and I do not want to put a panel on a stand. So, as i'm in the process of buying new blinds as well, i was wondering if there are such things as acoustical blinds? If not, which type of blinds would be the least reflective? Would it benefit if I put a 2'x2' panel behind the blinds (i'm gussing no)? Suggestions are welcome!

And lastly, before purchasing, I just have to decide between Realtraps and GIK. First I was leaning towards GIK b/c of price, but since panels and speakers all have a very very long life span, i'm ignoring the price difference and going for which will benefit me most, as the panels/speakers will be reused when i move. I've asked both Ethan and Bryan to send me close up shots of their panels so i can get a look at its finish/build. Also, will ones panel have a better affect in my room than another? Suggestions/input welcome here as well.

Thanks for your help
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post #18 of 18
4/7/07 at 11:27am
I believe the panels are quite comparable, if you get the same thickness and size. It sounds like going by build quality is the right choice for you.

For blinds, a thicker wood blind is likely to serve as a diffuser, and will reflect the diffused sound in a direction other than straight. They look good, too :-) If they are half open, then putting a panel behind them will give you extra absorbtion, especially in the bass register.
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