Aerial Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 20

Hi Aerialsound;
Yes, a Furman IT-Reference, from a few years back. Very nice unit.
I think you should continue to pursue the 7T. It could be the future sound of Aerial while the 9, like I have, is likely the past...but still so sweet!
bp

PS - My wife loves the way the 9's look! I just picked up a pair of woofers (F212's) and she complained the finish was black gloss, not at all like the furniture finish on the santos rosewood Aerials.

I know alot of folks here still love the 9s. I agree the 7T are the way of the future. Who knows maybe 9T is a few years. Wonder how the 7T sales are going? I looked at my current 7b Rosenut finish and they are still amazing to look at. The 7Ts are just gorgeous.

I considered the 9 a lot because I figure for HT, the Sub could be tossed out since the 9 had a lot of bottom end. Its a medium size room but the 9s would be a ble to fill it with bass very easily. Knowing that the low end from the 9 become directional as oppose to the JL Fathom

The Folks at Furman are real knowledgable and although the PS Audio makes fine products, the Furman I think have value at their price point and I can attach all of my mono amps!



BTW: What kind of wiring are you using with your 9? I'm moving from Accoutics Zen Satori to all Cardas Clear cables. More neutral sounding.

I wouldn't confuse the 9's bass with that of a sub. The bass on the 9's is almost full range, and enough for most music. But it's not deep and physical like a sub, and cannot do HT justice. In fact, to have the bass separate is advantageous because I can choose the best location for my subs and I can EQ the subs if I need. I cross off my 9s at 80hz because it is the flattest (using REW), although I have it set up with a "house curve." It sounds far better that using "Direct" mode in my prepro mainly because the speaker positions that are ideal for imaging is not good for bass. My room is 16x26x9.

I must agree that even though the 9's have decent bass, I would NOT throw out the sub. I have never previously been one to X-over full-range towers at 80 Hz, feeling that I paid extra for having the lower end but recently learned after adding a pair of JL Audio F113 subs and crossing the 9's at 80 Hz in my pre-pro actually created a much larger sound stage and substantially lower bass -- also more musical as the bass extends into the lower octaves. It is also a matter of timing the longer wavelengths to arrive at the same time as the mid and high frequency wavelengths and that is what the phase control on the subs is for -- coupling the sound of the subs and 9's together in a seamless fashion. The result was like night vs. day. in total audio quality.

MikeSp

So this raises the question: why buy the 9 over the 7B? I loved the sound of the 7B, but got the 9 because of the bass performance. Now I'm doing a dedicated room that will have SEVEN (yes, really) subwoofers placed for optimal bass evenness. I'm asking myself whether to stay with the 9 or find a nice pair of 7Bs...

To my ears, the 7B had a mellower, sweeter mid. Perhaps I'll try the 9 first and see what I think once the room is finished, but I'm interested in the thoughts of those here!

Just curious about your plans for the 7 subs. Not trying to talk you out of anything--but when Welti/Harman has shown that superb bass uniformity can be achieved with 2-4 subs, what's driving the plan? Where will they go--and how will they be driven?

I started life in my new theater a couple years ago with kit from the previous home, including a pair of 7Bs, a CC3B, and an SW-12. The bass performance was hopeless--severe mode nulling in the money seat. Started reading about the Harman multisub ideas and Sound Field Management (SFM) and the rest is history--and so is the SW-12. It was a great sub but I needed 4, so I sold it and bought a quad pack of Hsu ULS-15s. Smooth bass in every seat, given proper EQ and whatall.

Three Seaton SubMersive HPs for power and LF extension. Four Velodyne SC-IW's to even out the response: three in the ceiling and one on a wall (all of this behind stretched fabric).

The bass stuff is being designed by the acoustic designers using fancy software. I *think* the thing is that the Seatons are huge and can't be placed where they need to go for best uniformity, so they're going where they will fit (with emphasis on the money set), and the Velodynes, which can go almost anywhere behind the fabric, will take care of the smoothness for the remaining seats. I'll be doing a thread in the dedicated theater section as soon as construction actually begins. (We've just wrapped up design.)

So, you're still using the 7Bs and the CC3B? That's such a great combination. I loved the CC3B, but I went for the CC5 because it just had a bit more... something something.

I only have a single sub JL audio 12 sub for my 14 x 21 room. I live in a row house and don't want to scare my neighbors. It's good to know that a sub or more could benefit the sound quality of my existing 7bs which will be likely replaced with 7t instead of the 9s. Mike Kelly says the 7ts has nice extended bass and extended upper. Although the 9s should have better bass extension purely as a result of the speaker cabinet's size over the 7ts. This becomes a moot point, if I introduce a good quality sub or multiple subs. Although, I think one larger 13 fathom would do it rather than a pair of 12s due to limited floor space.

I have to admit The 7b did blends very well with the cc3 and it's upgrade the cc3b. I moved to the cc5 because of Mike's suggestion. Although, synergy is not as close to the 7b given the difference in drivers when dialogue is panned across the LCR. This rarely happens since dialogue comes from the center on most films. In movies, 70 percent of the dialogue comes from the center. Mike Kelly states that an outstanding center like his cc5 can make left and right channels sound even better in HT.

The clincher for me on the CC5 was a pair of spoken introductions:

Cate Blanchett, in the opening of Fellowship of the Ring. Unlike almost every other center I tried, it wasn't excessively mid-emphasized. This was in common with the CC3B, which was the other one that was stellar on this one.

Morgan Freeman, from the opening to War of the Worlds. Here, the CC5's additional potency really shines -- Freeman's powerful bass voice really comes through.

I don't think either of Aerial's standard center speakers is a perfect blend for the 9 (they're good, but not utterly seamless like CC5 to LR5), so I was totally fine using the CC5 rather than the CC3B. If I had been using the 7B, I might have been tempted by the closer match, but in reality I think the CC5 would still have won out.

By the way, I'm in a detached house and the theater will be partially in-ground. I hope I don't end up scaring the neighbors. :-) My goal is not so much about sheer volume as it is to have the power necessary to play very low frequencies with good control. That, and even response. So, that's what's driving this design. In a few months, we'll see how it turns out!

So you think by going with the 7t an additional sub is more important as oppose to the 9s. Or equally important regardless. Can my neighbors stand it! Or a better question, moving up from a fathom 12 to a 13 better than a pair of 12s.

I don't know. It's so hard to say because it depends upon so many factors -- the room, the available locations for speakers and subs, the degree of treatment, etc, etc.

I originally chose the 9s because, while I had had success with subs for movies, I really preferred to get the bass for my music listening from the speakers themselves. I had had too many subs with too much "boom". Since I'm a bass player, I really wanted to get good, tight bass and the 9s delivered that, although with all the attendant problems of uneven response etc from non-ideal placement. I could get it good at my single seat, but the rest of the room suffered. I didn't like their mids as well on a very limited set of vocals, so if the bass hadn't been a factor, the 7B would have won.

I'm trusting that the Seaton and Velodyne subs won't produce a lot of sloppy, booming bass, especially in a fully-treated room with plenty of DSP muscle employed as well, so it shouldn't be a problem in my new room to use them for music. If that pans out, then I think I could probably switch to the 7Bs and be at least as happy as I am with the 9s now, if not a bit more so with the 7B's sweeter (to me) mids.

On the other hand, maybe by the time the 9s are placed in this fully treated room and any unpleasantness is sorted out in the DSP, I'll find that I like their mids just fine.

By the way, I keep talking about the 7B rather than the 7t because I haven't listened to the 7t. But, I absolutely love the Aerial tweeter that the 9 and 7B share, so I'm partial to that series.

Oh, one other thing. Just because you go from one sub to two (or seven!) doesn't necessarily mean that the bass gets louder and irritates your neighbors more. Ideally, they all play more quietly, but the response is even in the room and you have an enormous amount of power headroom, either for very low bass or for high dynamic range transients that should make certain movies and music pretty exciting. :-)

Hi Aerialsound;
I will be confirming later today but from an intial conversation, without details, the 50,000 foot observation was that the 7T is selling very well.
While the 9 has very solid low end down into the lower 30hz region I would think the Fathom will still be needed to complete the total HT experience. My Fathoms, not the 9's, shake the house.
Funny you should ask about interconnects. I am trying out a new option and started with speaker cables last night. It is too soon to draw a final conclusion but so far I like what I hear.
btw, great listening to La Boheme with my wife last night.
bp

They are purrty nice lookin and I know they sound great. I wish I had seen your ad before I go the 8's.

Hot damn that's pretty. I like my Santos Rosewood 9s, but I think the 7B in cherry is just gorgeous.

Yep, the cherry 7B's definitely have a classy and classic look to them. And they sound pretty terrific, as well.

It's just that I have finally found the perfectly disappearing loudspeakers that my ears have yearned for. As soon as I get a few thousand more Pepsi cans saved up for my dream speakers (), the 7B's will go back on the market.

Understood. What signals will be driving the various subs?


Makes sense. Glad you have a team on the case. Keith Yates has shown me how his fluid dynamics analysis software evaluates all the possible sub locations across the seats to find the optimal use of subs. Pretty amazing process.


Something great to watch on the new fall schedule!


Yup, all coming up on their 10-year birthday and still going strong. They sound better in my new theater than the previous family room, and are also benefiting from all new electronics and room EQ. I simply cannot find fault with them.

And they are?

Something a little like these....

Looks like ribbon tweeters. How many Pepsi cans is it going to cost? And what is it you like VS the 7B's. Good luck w/the purchase. Hope, for you, it comes sooner than later.

Look like ribbons to me.

Pretty much as I said, when I auditioned these, they truly disappeared. They left me with the music and only the music. It was a very intimate audio experience that I had never had before. Ditto for my wife. It was simply us and the artists playing and singing. The room, the speakers, and all the drive equipment vanished. These speakers ruined me for ALL other speakers.

That said, I'll likely never be able to afford them. (For those of you that are counting, that's 200,000 Pepsi cans to save up...just for the Salk SoundScape10...pictured are the 12's.)

I searched long and hard before the 7B's won my heart. As fine as they are, they have never done that for me. I'm always (and with other speakers have always been) aware that I'm listening to loudspeakers. While I really enjoy the Aerials which are VERY smooth and musical and lovely, I wish for a more distinct, open and airy top end than Aerials produce. In the hf's, the Salks produce the sparkle I want in music, and equally the air between the notes, and there is no hint of sibilance or congestion. (As I dawder through my autumn years, I NEED high frequency clarity! ) One gets the sense that the tweeter could go on forever. (The RAAL tweeter is quite remarkable.) Easy and unlimited. From zero to infinity, you seem to hear it all in the smoothest of ways. Designers Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy hit a homerun with this SoundScape.

I have not auditioned the 7T's, and from the one brief review I've seen, they have headed in the Salk's direction. But they are the same price as the SS10's. And as I've said, I'm ruined....

Having run a few large, reasonably successful GTG comparos and written internet reviews in the past, I'd personally love to blind A/B the 7T's against the SS10's. I have serious doubts that Aerial and SalkSound are going to each ship a set to me for my personal playground. But what a nice dream.................

They look nice. Although I been an aerial guy and hard for me to change.

I feel the same way. I've never heard Salks but looking at the response on line it seems as if they've hit a homerun. And it's always great to see a homegrown company make good. I'm curious about a few things however. How would you describe the top end. What speakers would it be similar to? Also as you know Areials are real power hogs how do these compare? Again good luck and start saving those pepsi cans.

Don't get me wrong...I like the Aerials very, very much. I just found the SoundScapes to COMPLETELY disappear when I auditioned them. If you haven't heard a pair of speakers do that, it's difficult to describe "how they sound". They simply don't sound like any kind of speaker. One just hears the music.

The SS12's top end goes on openly, transparently, effortlessly, and seemingly endlessly. The RAAL tweeters and their implementation in the SS's are pretty amazing. (This is the one major area in which the 7B's could not compete for my ears.)

The Salks have those passive 10" or 12" subs, depending on the model, so they're not the easiest load to drive...perhaps little more than the 7B's. But I haven't researched that comparison. We drove them with a Van Alstine 120 wpc Insight amp, and later, a Modwright 150. No problems. I forget what the impedence curves look like for the Aerials and the Salks.

The SoundScapes are superior to every other speaker I've auditioned or heard, so I can't really compare them to any.

I have only heard the AA 9's, as well as my 7B's. It's possible the 20T's or 7T's can keep up with the standard set (for me) by the SoundScapes. Not having auditioned them, I just don't know.

Isn't it wonderful to have such good choices as Aerials and Salks available to us?!

For anyone interested, here are a couple of photos of the equipment we had at our 2009 Oregon Coast GTG, Salk SS12's included.....(mostly before the gang arrived...~50 people).....

Wow all that in your home. Very impressive. How was the gear aquired, dealers, owners or companies? I noticed some tubes. I just picked up a Primaluna Dialogue 3 w/HT bypass and I love the result I'm getting w/my Aerial 6's. I rolled in 4 Military grade NOS 6189 RCA Black plate 12AU7WA's all matched from 1962, just took everything to a higher level. Next time you have one of those shindigs see if you can score some Primaluna gear. Should match up well w/the Salks. By the way A+ for the catering.

Thanks for the kind words. And yeah, the chow was excellent! It was wall to wall people and gear that day! It was purposed as the Great Northwest GTG...but we had as many people from out of state as we did from Oregon and Washington.

My best buddy, BelowAverageJoe on AVS, housed the event in his new home here in our little coastal town of Lincoln City, Oregon. I was the principle organizer, but had a tremendous amount of help from Majorloser (who flew out from Florida for the event).

We had gear ALL over the place. The photos don't do it all justice and those I posted are an incomplete record. Most of it was sent by the manufacturers upon our request. (That was our 2nd annual event.) Once a few sponsors were lined up, many more came to us volunteering to send their gear. Some of the loudspeakers were brought by attendees. The gig turned out very much like a mini-convention. The list of sponsors was as impressive as their generous loan of equipment. (Believe it or not, one of our chief concerns was whether or not we had enough insurance to cover any losses should the house have burned down in the middle of the night. )

That little blue tubed amp was sent by RBH/EMP, who also sent a really cool and unusual one-of-a-kind speaker pair, some other gear, AND their principle speaker designer. Dan Wright sent the Modwright gear, and we used Jim Salk's Van Alstine AVAHifi gear. SVS sent tons of stuff, including a snazzy, new at the time, ASEQ1, and that full 5.2 setup you see in the livingroom photo. Skiing Ninja, Salk, SVS, Aperion...too many to list actually...and even the City of Lincoln City all donated great swag, as well as sponsoring their fine gear. Local Oregon company, Aperion, was represented here in force. Jim and Mary Salk drove out here immediately after RMAF with all their gear. That's a LONG drive from Michigan!

The house wasn't quite finished being built when we had the event. Headachesville! But a few great people like Mary Salk and our wives just dug in and helped get everything cleaned up and in place.

Thanks for the tip on the Primaluna gear.

Hi JustMike;
I was reading your post about the CC5 not being a seamless match to the 9's and was curious why that is the case? The 9's and CC5 share, along with the LR5's, share the same tweeter and mid. Why wouldn't they provide a good blend together?
bp

That's the first time I heard that the c5 is not as seemless with the 9s.