does universal have any incentive to drop exclusivity? - Page 2

It is a double edged sword. Without competition definitely we would not have had a $399 CE player by now. And the magical $199 price point would have been much farther away.

BD+ is only a watermarking technology. It does not prevent copying, it only identifies the source. Which would only be used to stop the big pirating shops, it does nothing to prevent the casual copier.

[quote=JBlacklow]Not only that, on the HD DVD side the interactivity prevents the disc from playing. On Blu-ray (except for "Descent"), you can still do everything else.[quote]

What? All HD DVD players support the interactivity, it's in the minimum spec, unlike Blu Ray.

You're confusing BD+ with ROM Mark.

You're misinterpreting me (or I wasn't clear enough). If the discs with problems all have the interactivity function, and presumably that's the problem, then you can't play the disc. With the exception of "The Descent", any Blu-ray player can play a PiP or BD-J disc, just without the PiP or BD-J function.

This has been addressed many, many times, yet some people still seem to have reading comprehension issues. KING KONG WAS NEVER INCLUDED in sales figures -- IT WAS GIVEN AWAY FREE INSIDE THE ADD-ON! THE SAME WITH THE FREE MOVIES WITH THE HARDWARE PURCHASE THROUGH A REBATE - these discs never affected sales data for HD-DVD, unlike the BOGO and 50%-off sales run by Sony & Fox! This has been rehashed to death on this forum, try doing a search. The new deal at CC this week (and apparently BB next week) where you can receive 4 free discs instantly WILL COUNT IN SOFTWARE SALES! This is the first time retailers have participated in any sale on HD-DVD software that will actually affect disc sale figures. Got it now?


...and what about the threads in the BD section claiming all the problems reading/playing The Descent in various players? Or the freezing of the PS3 which appears pretty common? Or the Chicken Little BD-J game that apparently doesn't work for some players? Are these people all simply imbeciles who don't know how to use their respective players? There are some glitches on both formats with certain players & discs, so don't try to sugarcoat it on the BD side.


Again, at least HD-DVD offers the interactivity. Blu-Ray has pushed back the timeline for BD-J AGAIN to the end of October! This is 15 months after the launch of the format!! Yet this is acceptable?!?


As you liked to point out about HD-DVD, there are other players besides the PS3! What about the poor saps that forked over $1000 - $1500 for a high-end stand-alone from Sony, Panasonic, Samsung or Pioneer, only to be told that it won't support all the future features of the format?

You don't know that for certain. We don't know what contraints, if any, are holding back HD optical. Is it the format war? Is it a lack of content (less than 300 unique titles across both formats)? Is it the price of hardware/software? Is it a lack of hi-def TV's in the large majority of homes?

I'm sure a format war plays some part, but I think it is often overstated. A friend of mine just bought a HD-DVD player, and the "war" was of some concern to them, but not major. They just wanted something to show off their off-brand, Christmas cheapo hi-def TV, as cheaply as possible. One of their questions for me was "What is upconversion?" Their previous DVD player didn't even have progressive output...

And many features wouldn't be available for either format. It's reduced the format/player improvement cycle time substantially.

So you're saying sales shouldn't be counted as sales? That the 20% off on Fox and Sony titles--yes, 20%, because if you weren't so blinded by your narrow view, you would have noted 50% included the format war-wide 30% off--don't count? And this begs the question, what good does getting rid of 1 or 3 or 5 titles do for HD DVD? Toshiba eats the cost, they piss off retailers who are losing revenue, and they have no sales to encourage retailers and studios, let alone consumers, to buy their product.

Again, 1 disc, which we haven't heard about for weeks. This is the second or third batch of HD DVDs from 2 separate studios that won't even play.

Another lie. Fixed in firmware and barely even mentioned anywhere anymore.

Let me repeat: at least they can watch the movie and extras. The problems with HD DVDs don't let you do anything. That is, if the drive can actually read the disc.

For the third time: at least they can watch the movie and extras. The problems with HD DVDs don't let you do anything. It says something about your priorities when you consider it more acceptable for a disc to not even work, then it is for interactivity that hardly anyone outside of AVS cares about.

To bring up one of your favorites (except this time they're true), what about the threads about the various HD DVD players with numerous problems that are still getting posts to this day? What about Amir telling us "not to complain" when charging an extra $80-$180 for an iteration of the 360 that he continually told us not to worry about, that can't do lossless? Wait, isn't TrueHD decoding mandatory? Then how does the 360 get certification?

I don't see a revolution brewing. I don't even see more than one or two popular threads from actual BD owners (unlike fearmongerers like yourself) that complain. Because at least they can still watch their movies.

Absolutely. It has really accelerated the whole price/feature/performance timeline. Ofcourse now we have the headache for a format war ... with people sitting on the sidelines watching.

Yes we do. Retailers, studios, analysts, magazines, newspapers, and so on. They've all mentioned that the format war is the biggest issue.

If it's "overstated" by almost everybody but you, does that mean everybody must be wrong? Please.

So you are saying that none of those other reasons are a factor? Right...

It is overstated here, and yes by analysts, magazines etc. as well where every news tidbit, sales figure and release is held under a microscrope. Both formats are so far off from being meaningfully adopted it is barely worth the discussion let alone arguing about.

The term war is an overstatement.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about with those ramblings. Sony & Fox had a 50%-off sale on a whopping 49 titles on amazon for a couple of weeks, during which BD sales skyrocketed on the site. Discs that retailed for $39.00 were sold for $19.99 before the 10% discount that also applied to those that were eligible. Sony discs were as little as $14.99 before the discount! Yet you somehow feel this wasn't a major sale?!?


And again, there are threads on both forums discussing problems with different discs all the time. Most are simply defective discs in isolated cases, or problems with specific players with specific firmware versions. COM AND Good Shepherd play fine on my A1 AND on my new A2! I understand certain 360 add-ons experience problems which is unfortunate, but they are not the majority. And I'm sure a firmware fix will fix the issue. It's tiresome reading about mudslinging towards a format from people who don't even OWN one, as if you have any credibility to discuss it. You can't base the format on a handful of players that have issues. When I did the same regarding BD discs (based on BD user complaints), you go on the defensive.


And for the second time I will tell you -- ALL DISCS YOU MENTIONED PLAY FINE FOR ME! Would you like a photo of all 3 films running on either of my players for confirmation? These 2 discs had issues in a small # of players -- who knows what firmware they are running? It states right inside the package of the new discs that they have features that require the most updated firmware versions. Why are my priorites messed up when the movies all play fine? As do the extras.


I don't own a 360, so I have no way to comment on it's performance. I do know, however, that it is a mere $199 to purchase and is pretty much a bargain for what it accomplishes. Anyone buying the 360 add-on should know it doesn't decode lossless audio, so why is this an issue in your eyes? I just got an A2 for $329 WITH 4 free movies and another 5 coming from Toshiba! I am fully aware it won't output 1080p like the A20, but what do I care? It's a steal at that price and a great value.


I find it very hypocritical for you to call me a fearmongerer when YOU have been doing the very thing in regards to HD-DVD! You brush off all the format's shortcomings and crippled features yet attack HD-DVD for (2) discs that don't play on a few players!

People would be sitting on the sideline right now no matter what. You guys are kidding yourself if you think that the general public is even remotely interested in a HD format. I work for a major studio and there is no interest among the employees at all in these formats. The studio supports Blu-ray, but while the studio store has hundreds of DVDs(and a few PSP movies) there are no Blu-ray disks for sale there. If people that work in the industry have little to no interest, it certainly means that the general public has no interest at this time. In a couple of years things will be different after the players get a whole lot cheaper.

MR I saw says 15% people may be interested (once it gets to good price levels). My comment was regarding even affluent HT enthusiasts who can easily afford the money but are in wait & watch mode. Ofcourse this is a tiny percentage ...


This is interesting info. Thanks.

In MS - the employee store stocks HD DVD add-on player and sells well. Infact the first time they were stocked they sold out in minutes (I subscribe to mails that get sent out when a new item comes in and when it gets sold out).

The MS store has some steals, especially on MS software. Access is definately one perk of MS.

Good to know, thanks

I am as grateful as anyone else for the quality-improvements thanks to the format war, but do you think adoption of high def discs will rise faster with just one format from here on in?

Or do you think the war can wring out still more goodies for consumers, which would probably be lost if one format won tomorrow?

thanks