Philips DVDR3575H/37 160G HDD DVD Recorder w/ ATSC tuner - Page 86  

wabjxo - I agree totally with everything you just said.

Well, I didn't expect the downconverted HD stuff to look as good as it would from a separate HD tuner's downconverted signal - I just expected a bit more (certainly not an opinion for anyone to get infuriated over.) I find the Philips (and Maggie's) tuners to be a LOT softer. I usually have the sharpness level on my display set at around 0 of -15 to +15 (midway point), give or take a notch, with the HD tuners (even when watching 480i). But with the Philips (and the Maggie) I have to turn it up to at least +9 or +11.

I fully expected that the amount of detail definitely wouldn't compare.

Also, when I hooked the Maggie up to my BIL's 480p Panny plasma, I expected better, since the display had less "work" to do. But it still really wasn't as good as I had hoped.

I suppose it could just be my particular unit, but the Maggie had almost the exact, same picture quality. Actually, I think that the Maggie was ever-so-slightly sharper.

And I do recall one or two other people around here saying that they found the picture to be particularly soft. too. Also, it's true what a couple of people have said that the picture is a bit "darker". But that isn't really a problem for me personally. Maybe it's just the component output I'm using.

My 3575's tuner was also a little "soft" until I spent a couple of houre or so setting my TV's Picture (PQ) settiungs...but then, I've got many years of experience in tweaking digital stills and tape captures for publication.

All TV input settings are important, but brightness and contrast are the two most important settings, and it takes patience to get the combo "just right."

You can't set up a TV that is showing a movie or anything that changes scenes quickly. I always use QVC cuz it has studio lighting, mostly static shots, and TEXT ALWAYS ON SCREEN, which is the most "telling" feature (besides eyes) of a good PQ.

In my other life, I sharpened pics using mainly brightness and contrast with a combo of levels that were almost universally repeatable, at least as a starting point. I used Sharpness control just a "touch" cuz just a little too much makes pics look really bad, and always as the last step.

I ended up with digital AV cables (composite) as best for MY 3575/TV combo (47" 1080P LCD), with HDMI and Component only slightly better on commercial DVDs, which are the only things we all have that are produced with and deliver Component Video in its "original" form to your TV (i.e., not separated out from our single-wire composite signals).

Well, see, I can't adjust the contrast or brightness, or even the color too much, because the analog set I've got it on doesn't allow for separate input settings (I've got E* SD going to it also, and that's the main viewing source - and it tends to be a bit washed out, so the settings I have it on probably do make the Philips picture a little more saturated). If I'd have kept it on the Pio plasma, I would've done that. Actually I did do a good amount of tweaking when I first had it on the Pio, but I really didn't keep it on there too long - a few days maybe.

I've also only tried it with a component hookup to the analog set, so I admit I haven't tried s-video or composite. I didn't with the Pio, either - only HDMI, which I didn't like at all, using every which resolution output possible - and component. I much preferred component at 480i. Same thing for the analog set - 480i. The progressive setting even softens the picture more. In fact, it looks downright bad with it on - on either set. Makes the picture "fuzzier". None of my other three recorder's progressive output really make the picture look worse like that. I'd definitely suggest leaving that off. It seems to me that just about ANY display's scaler would do a better job.

Maybe I will give s-video and composite a try when I get the time (and feel like messing with pulling it out).

I've tried the exact same things here with the same results.

I think you should try the composite connection, except use Digital AV cables...great construction and really makes a diff. here compared to the old VCR-type Y/W/R cables. ($18 at Wal-Mart, mine are RCA brand, can't vouch for the same cables there by Philips).

WTH are you referring to?...I wasn't replying to you! I was responding to Voyager6!

Did you miss his name in my "infuriated" post, or are you guilty by association?

Thanks, Chuck! I've got another interesting story to relate sometime...when and if needed!

I think we had best keep this to displaying digital signals on a digital set, otherwise we are in the apples and oranges world.

I agree that the best signal is the 480i from the Phillips to the digital set. I tried a variety of inputs and settled on component in at 480i and let my 42" vizio 1080p do the conversion.

I checked the price of the sony you used for a source, and that is way beyond my budget. Plus, most of us are talking about recording the HD digital channels we get on "analog" cable. For that, I am in complete agreement with wabjxo. The difference between the Phillips up-converted (by the Vizio) and the HD signal directly to the Vizio is apparent for me at 8', but when I move out to 12-15' it is too close to call, at least with my 20-20 eyesight.

I am not sure why you bothered to buy a recorder with a digital tuner when you seem to already have two digital tuners and the Sony with a hard drive. I guess to reduce a step.

There are so many variables when you try to compare one person's experience with another's. Your set up is different than mine and a Plasma may display differently and also up-covert differently. The tests of my Vizio on PC World put it just below the two top plasmas and was the best LCD set. It was also noted for exceptional SD quality. So it may handle the Phillips input much different than someone else's.

Add to that the varying quality of the cable analog input. Fox SD football on either of my recorders or Vizio is terrible. But the CBS channel, which I can also get in HD is perfect. Our cable companies signal my have more to do with differences than the Phillips or TV set.

I have found that the recording quality of the Phillips with a separate input is usually better than through the tuner. But then, I control the quality of the signal, not the cable company. My guess is that those who have a good cable box on digital will get good results. But then they are not using the tuner.

So the Phillips. for me, is a great buy. It does what I want and does it well for less than $300.

The pack date is Sept 2007
The Manf date on the unit is Aug 2007

It picked up on all my analog channels but, I don't get anything above channel 24 since the cable company put a trap on the line up at the pole.

You've got the latest units... I saw some Sept units at my local Wal-Mart...gone in an hour!

So you must have a "limited" cable package and, with the trap, you prob. can't get any digital channels?

I am still waiting for my second "rapid replacement" unit from Philips. The first replacement did not fix the QAM channels that dissappears. I was told the second unit would ship the first week of Nov. Now I am told its sometime in Dec. I purchased this thing in May and cant believe they cant get their act together. Another 6 months and my warranty will be over.

How long does it take to burn a 2 hour Standard Quality HDD recording to a DVD+R? What's the fastest mode for that?

Maybe I should say "How can I get it to burn the DVD+R in minimum time?"

DVDR3575 Basic Steps for Dubbing to DVD

1. Insert a blank disc and let it load up.

2. Go to Setup > Dubbing and press OK. ("Dubbing" will become active once the blank DVD has loaded.)

3. With HDD > DVD highlighted, press OK.

4. With Add highlighted, press OK.

5. In title list, select each title to be dubbed w/arrow keys and press OK for 1st title, then Add again and repeat process till all desired titles are in dub list.

6. Back in dub menu, arrow down to Dubbing Start and press OK. Menu changes to a list of rec. modes available for that title.

7a. If HIGH is highlighted (in white), press OK. Dubbing will start at High-speed (HS), and will take up to 30 min. depending on the file size (MB). [Use arrow keys to select another rec. mode if desired for a special purpose, e.g., to reduce total file size so you can add more titles later, before finalizing?]

NOTE: Use "High" whenever possible. It's a lossless transfer and it takes less space on a disc.

See this post for more info. 7b. If TOTAL file size of all titles added is more than disc capacity (4424 MB), the next available rec. mode will be auto-highlighted. Press OK and dub will start in real-time (RT), which will take as long as the title runs in hours:minutes. [Use arrow keys to select another rec. mode if desired for a special purpose, e.g., to reduce total file size so you can add more titles later, before finalizing?]

8. To start dubbing, press OK on highlighted "Yes" in the Start Dubbing? dialog. To change your mind, arrow down to "No" and press OK. [One reason to change your mind might be if you decide to edit titles down to lower total file size so the title(s) can be HS-dubbed instead of RT-dubbed?]

9. When dubbing is done, a message at bottom of screen advises you to Finalize for playing in other machines. For that, go to Disc Edit menu, select Finalize and follow prompts. Takes ~2 minutes to Finalize 2-hrs of SP video...the less video on the disc, the longer Finalizing will take, so fill-er-up if you can!

If the recording will fit on a 4.7 Gbyte DVD as-is, then the High Speed Dub option will be available. High Speed takes about 30 minutes to write a full DVD (technically 4x speed in common terminology), so you can figure it out proportionately from there if your recording size is different. 2 hours at SP is a full DVD, so it will take about 30 minutes. 1 hour at SP will take about 15 minutes, 1 hour at HQ will take about 30 minutes etc.

wabjxo,

Thanks for your link to dubbing which explained the video length and recording mode speed quite well. One minor question: for the data space listed for a particular video clip that is to be burnt onto the DVD, does that take into account the data use for finalizing the DVD? Or does the listed DVD data space take into account the DVD finalizing data use. In that way, I can figure out exactly whether I went overboard with the video clips if the sum of data for the video is kept just under the DVD data capacity.

I would hate to have the machine automatically down shift the mode one notch to a lower quality. From your discussion, High speed dubb seems to be the way to go, using less data that the slow dubb , ugh.( I was stuck with that when I burnt the first DVD!)

Thanks! I was hoping it to be faster than that but I guess I have to live with it. My computer has spoiled me as it takes about 7 minutes to burn a full DVD.

BTW, I like the synopsis. I may print that out and keep it near the machine for reference!

The 3575 does take longer than Panny or Pioneer DVDRs. I was spoiled by my Pio 531 and 640, which take ~10 min. from start to finalized for a 2-hr video using HS dub. I don't do a lot of DVDs anymore, but even when I do, I just have more time to do something else (my "glass is half-full").

Never suggested anyone get the Sony - just referred to it as one of the sources I used. I realize the price it's going for. In fact I've never suggested it for a tuner (even though it is a fantastic one). I DID suggest the Samsung tuner, though, which retails for $180.00 but can be found cheaper. And ONLY if picture quality was the most important priority.

And yes, I basically wanted to try the Philips for the all-in-one capabilities, mainly for Digital OTA and E* SD on an analog set in another room. The person who mainly watches that TV really isn't techie enough to deal with multiple units. So it wasn't so much for me.

I don't want to use it on my Pio for my E* SD, because I'm using the Panny EH75V for that, along with the Sony for OTA. With the Panny, all you have to do is set the recordings from the E* guide, and the recorder starts and stops on time by itself, and also titles the recordings - can't beat that.

Actually, I envy you. You do have a good setup, especially with a couple of solid digital tuners. It is interesting how digital tuners are very different in the way they work and how well they pick up channels, even with the same manufacturer. The Phillips is excellent for me since it brings in several additional channels that my TV does not. But a friend's Phillips TV brings in even more channels on the same cable system.

So a good tuner makes a great difference in quality of viewing, but it does require some limitations in how you view when the tuner is not in the source but has to be fed the signal. Wonder how long before we get to a stable digital tuner.

For other MPEG2-interested people like me, I just saw something that MIGHT help explain how the 3575 makes such a good recording.

I've been doing some editing and frame-advancing a lot lately, even trying to see if I could tell where a key-frame (I-frame) was in the MPEG2 encoding. Once before, it seemed I could notice a distinct diff. in the frames to ID the I-, P- and B-frames.

I just did this frame-advance quality search on a title recorded in 2-hr-SP mode and am pretty convinced the 3575 uses the following MPEG2 pattern for its Group of Pictures (GOP), compared to two "typical" patterns in the literature (there are many):

3575 = IPPBPPBPPBPPBPP (some of the P's could even be I's, hard to tell?)
Typ1 = IPBBPBBPBBPBBPB
Typ2 = IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB

The point being that, if what I see is true (fat chance!), the 3575 uses more P frames, which are just a little better than B frames (both still highly compressed compared to an I-frame).

Previously, I wondered if Philips had developed a "different" algorithm for its encoding that helped with PQ, and this might be one of the differences?

Someone with an MPEG2 computer-editing program (and a neutral agenda) could verify this...or not?

An interesting subject?

Yes, it's what I call basic basic which they still charge $13/mo; but living in a hilly area, it beats the few stations I used to get with a rooftop antenna.

hm... I've been thinking to get this one and I'm also on Comcast basic ($13/mo) package. But I'm using Comcast cable Internet as well. Would I have the same problem? I thought with the Internet service, they can't do the "trap". Can they?

They can still trap out analog with internet so you might still be able to get the digital qams

I went with cable initially for just the internet service. They said I had to get the minimum basic TV with it. So, my internet works with the trap.

Also, I tried an analog/digital scan on my 3575. It took over 10 minutes and got stuck on digital channel 116.
I finally hit 'Setup' to exit it. After all that, it gave me a broadcast on channel 70-something which turned out to be a ghost of channel 20.
I guess their trap works well.

Speaking of digital channels, my new LCD TV "lost" touch with its digital channels again (went blue-screen) after I had disconnected the incoming cable to move an amp.-splitter.

The interesting thing is, when I went to rescan channels in the TV, I Canceled it about half-way thru the digital channels (forget the reason) and expected to have only a few or none in memory cuz of that.

Voila! All digital channels back strong again!

So...at least in my TV, I don't have to rescan completely...just "threaten" it with a scan if it doesn't behave!

Wonder if this would work on my TV by just starting the scan and canceling during the analog portion, AND if this same mid-scan Cancel would work on the 3575 (if you can't get tuning back by toggling the DTV/TV button, like I can)? In fact, maybe a scan "threat" (start-cancel) would get a 3575 to behave for those who can't get digital tuning back again with the DTV/TV-button toggle???

Inquiring minds want to know.

Note: All this is with my basic analog cable (digital channels/tiers not a normal part of my service).

Scanning digital channels does take longer (and they don't show on-screen like analog channels do) cuz it takes up to 10 sec each channel (more info to try to get).

Does the digital "ghost" you receive look better/sharper than its analog counterpart?

Note: This "scanning" refers to initial or repeat auto-channel-scan to find the channels you receive.

"Surfing" digital channels after they're scanned in takes 2-3 sec first time thru, then 1-2 sec after that.

Hi,

Saturday moring I started up my trusty 3575 DVR (April pack date and firmware NOT updated). It immediately put me into setup mode (Language, Time, etc.). Strange I thought. I went to watch a program I recorded the night before. There was audio but only static for video. I stopped that show and went to one recorded a couple nights before. No problem with it.

There were no power problems the night before as the VCR plugged into the same wall socket was telling time (and it's a blinking 12 o'clock model). Also the UPS on my computer didn't log anything like a spike or outage.

Charter cable has been messing with things lately (including raising prices again), so I wouldn't be too surprised with the audio but no video EXCEPT for the setup coming on at the same time. Could the cable company do something to cause this?

No, the ghost was very fuzzy; the original is clear.

It's likely your problem is just a "language" one. If you haven't selected an OSD language, it will show the original setup menu, which starts with OSD Language. (People don't always see the original startup menu with the 1st step being Language.)

You can set ALL Languages in your setup menu to English and see if that helps. As a "fail-safe" at least re-select English everywhere even if they're already on English. A Fail-Safe-Safer would be to choose "Reset All" in the Setup menu and enter your custom settings again, esp. the Languages.

I've seen the same "ghostly" channel when my cableco trapped the Extended Basic tier from my service...got Fox News for awhile pretty well, then they "fixed" that later for me, so now, nothing!