Panasonic DW10000U 3Chip DLP 1080p 10,000 lumen $74,999 MSRP

5000:1 is with a DI engaged.

10,000 Lumens!?!

Your going to have to wear sunscreen!

Cliff

Yes, right now the HT 5000 has the best native on / off of the three chips.

Art

Anyone buying this panasonic for ht needs their heads examined.

If they requested one, would you put it in?

My integrity is not for sale at any price. The same would apply for the SIM2 . I have a very finite universe of projectors that portray a photorealistic image. These unfiltered UHP units are generally a nightmare that is compounded by the 3 chip dlp's 8 to 10 bit innate expansion circuitry.

Peter

The Sim HT5000 has the cleanest image over any 720 3 chip I have seen to date. As clean as lcos. I was really surprised. Typical DLP brings out the nasties in bad source and in the past I always had to throttle back on the brightness with 3 chip DLP because you could see all the crap even with a good source.
I do not know if what I am seeing with the Sim is proprietary to them or all 1080 3 chips will benefit the same from the new processing but it looks really good. I have yet to see any others to compare.

I agree ! After the posts regarding DLP exacarbating source flaws, full field artifacting and dark scene dithering visibility I was ready. Instead I saw a very ,very clean ,sharp, and bright image.

Art

That is the Gennum chip's credit. But you have not seen the Barco 1080p unit.

The Titan will have much better color. How clean the signal of the Titan? I don't know, DPI use these D-trovision DVI matrix switcher distributors at the shows that have some noise creeping into the signals upon close inspection.


(Art I have been thinking for weeks on how to articulate my objections on the HT5000 to you), here it goes inside my response to Alan:

I assure you the Barco FLM HD14- 18 (Gennum) are WAAAY cleaner than the HT 5000 which I have now seen 6 times and it has that ugly green edgelets on "on-screen object fine contrast transitions". Like if the blue and red drives were cutting off on very bright high contrast highlightes, like rims and flares, subtitles etc.. This problem apparently only surfaces on dynamic content not on gray scale/color uniformity step patterns. So even if the signal to noise ratio is very high, it is not from a chromacity accuracy standpoint. Noise vs. color distortion why trade off when you do not need to compromise?

That is a huge problem for me. Why would I make it up if I did not see it? You know my loyalty is to reality recreation. And that is where Barco is 10 years ahead.

The FLM- HD 18's image is the world reference for 1080p chip, now the ante has been upped siginificantly with the Digital Cinema DP1500,with TIp7 auto calibration to rec's 709 +601 with presets, with custom aperture plates, 2k of high fill factor panels, multiple lamp options, Dual link 12 bit video upconversion with HDCP, super servo lens memories with presets, the list goes on and on, all for under $100k.

I am sorry but "that" to me is the "high end". The rest are toys, and the ht5000 is just one big underperforming expensive toy to me. BUT THE pANASONIC TAKES THE CAKE AS THE ANTITHESIS of good 3 chip colorimetry with multiple uhp lamps exacerbating their collective anomalies to achieve "negative synergy". If SIM2 can be accused of malpractise based on their suggestion that their unit has reference color performance, Panasonic takes the cake for Thievery with this unit.

I find the picture with my dVision 1080p projector to be very clean also, with decent dvd transfers. Team America looked really good on my Optoma H79 720p machine for instance, but looks downright almost HD like with the dVision!!

Craig

Glad to hear this. It sounds like 1080 DLP has some benefits outside of just the additional resolution

Peter,
I've never known for you not to say what you think so I can depend on you giving your honest impressions.

I just don't understand the one thing and that is the green coloration you saw. I spent three whole days with it, I watched quite a bit of black and white material also, since I do love old films. The gray scale was just gorgeous top to bottom and trust me, I was heavily studying edges since that's where the action is , good and bad with resolution processing, CA ,and panel alignment.

If I saw a unit that was different ,then this could explain it, but I've never seen a three panel device with lack of fringing as good as the unit I saw. The gray scale was so good on this unit, in fact ,that I had a let down later with my CRTs. There was no colored anything even on SD DVD,and any HD source we fed it. We watched a middle weight fight on HBO HD, tons of HDDVD, HD TIVo,and cable HD and it all looked spectacular. I'm not questioning you just giving my impressions from about 15 hours of critical viewing.

There are only two complaints I had. The first is I had hoped for more than 1000 ANSI lumens after calibration and reds were not the color reds looked on even their C3X IMO (which I loved).

I do understand your quest.

Art

A clearer cleaner picture is the first thing I noticed on the very first 1080p DLP I saw too - the Optoma HD81. In the case of the dVision it could also be the inclusion of a good scaler / VP with the machine.

Art I believe you that grey scale tracking was extraordinary on PATTERNS all of these latest projectors show that off Marantz Included. But because program dynamics vary when I look at edgelets of high contrast objects that should exhibit a shinning silver color they take on a tinge of green, this has been the SIM2 "signature" look since the appaling CX3.

You could say that maybe the contrast was raised (by whomever set them up)past calibration point for show conditions, but well... you can do that with xenon and it looks silver not greenish silver, mind you these are dynamic content contrast transition edgelets of on scren objects(ie reflective stainless steel objects out in the sun).

I think we SHOULD BE ABLE to crank up the contrast a bit if as expert viewers we want to detach the foreground from the background further than from that afforded by the CORRECT calibration point, specially when there is no loss of apparent resolution involved and a highly beneficial immediacy effect.

I say yest to calibration with the most expensive photometers, photresearch/TIP7 being the ultimate in desirablility, but in the end a trained eye has to do the final dialing in. But it is indispensible to start with 12 bit accurate calibration, of which non cinema dlp projectors are totally lacking.

Wouldnt it be interesting if the 3 chip advantages could be ported to truly hi end single chip DLPs to give the advantages of both. There are many engineers (including Sim and DP) who think that single chip DLP taken to its extreme may yet yield the best possible image.

When i last spoke to Sim regarding my HT5000 one of the engineers stated that they may not look at LEDs but they are already toying with the idea of 3 beam laser systems with the possibility of " infinite CR and any magnitude of lumens" with the advantage of " self correcting CM with 100% accuracy" sounds interesting

Thusfar to me, talking to SIM is like talking to Forrest Gump. No clue.

How are they going to increase the color depth on a single chip? Digital Cinema Projectors now portray 35 trillion colors, the best single chippers right now are still limited to 16 million. The delta is mindboggling.

Hehehe

Largely academic at this point, the lamps are probably $everalK

Its the laser comments that interest me. Its the first ive heard from any of the manufacturers.

Peter

I did consider the Ruby to be an excellent PJ but I recently saw a C3x... well... after that Ruby is now in my view a very good PJ good but not that spectacular anymore. I was a semi-pro photographer in my college days and I (still) have a good appreciation for accurate color reproduction. The C3X reminded me of the prints made from a positive process e.g Kodachrome emulsion to Cibachrome paper... Realistic and vibrant, versus Negative to Negative paper adequate to very good but always lacking that realism that only slides seem to provide... to these days. So I am investigating the High End in PJ but, but, but you are not helping with your overstatements:

I have not seen the HT5000. The way you portray it however is that it is a totally flawed PJ , from all accounts it is not, far from it and could be described as one of the best out there, regardless of price... From my reading Art Sonneborn who by all accounts has one of the top five best video set-ups in the whole AVS forum would be quite satisfied with this PJ and so is Alan G and others... So refrain to portray this PJ as unwatchable same with Sim.. You are a veteran of this industry and fully know that Sim Engineers and no clue do not belong in the same sentence. Keep the overstatements to a minimum it will make your points stand out better.

The reason of this long post is because I (and probably some others) have come to rely on advice from people on this forum to form my opinion and purchase decisions. I got the Ruby after Tryg enthusiastic reports and have not regretted it. We are not all in the USA and finding honest anf often unbiased reports on great gears, be they Audio or video (I have much more access to great Audio than video) is difficult. This forum is arguably one of the few where the level in things video and (once in a while Audio) is so high.

I also think that to call the C3X apalling is rather far from the truth.

Photography and projection video are quite different, you could know a lot about one and be a newbie on the other.

When it comes to servers I listened to your point in the other thread and stepped out, now here you are in my turf. The HT 5000 and cx3 are a crime to videography for their implementation of the uhp bulb to suit their whim. I do not believe that Alan and Art have seen the Barco 1080p unit. If they saw it and then went back and forth to the SIM2 indubitably they would see a HUGE COLOR DIFFERENCE. Because one color is organic and the other abrasive.

Achieving the state of the art with 3 chip dlp is my central preocupation. I believe so strongly against the sim2 because it has an obvious flaw. You can get the world's ultimate projector for 20% more than the cost of the HT5000 (with lens and slider). Looking at SIMHT5000's image I see the green problem. What the hell do you want me to do? My overstatements are actually understatements, I could use a lot stronger words. O SIM2 HT5000 how thou I despise thee? Let me count the ways...

You bought the pearl NOT LISTENING TO MY RECOMMENDATIONs, I was totally against it (smudgevision). The JVC is the first dila that I consider Videophile grade (after the QXIA), very transparent.

When it comes to 3dlp, specially after I have travelled thousands of miles over and over at my cost and expense to give a projector a fair shot to display what it's got, after that if the projector continues to escalete it's unpleasantness after repeated viewings, I shall be vocal. It is my civic duty as a VIDEOPHILE. Even if Alan were to marry the daughter of the owner of SIM2 I would still voice my concern over what they are doing (or not doing-filtering the light at the source like DPI).

The Mercury is a much better projector (on component ).


My eyes don't lie, to me. I have been seeing this green crap since 2004 when the first CX3 came out. I complained loudly. They had a chance of fixing it. They did not. It's criminal, some Air Force should carpet bomb that factory and stop the crimes against humanity . They should be tried in LaHage. You get the point? how violently my eyes reject that image? Let me stop.

Anyone with money thats spends 70 grand on a HT5000 setup knowing dammed well it will NEVER EVER CALIBRATE is a__________. When for 20% more they could have the NIRVANA of projectors whose next generation operational suite defines how Home Theaters will look 5-10 years from now. It's sheer lunacy.

Peter,
I've been called many things but this is the first time I've been called a__________.

Art

Art did Ken tell you that I am conspiring to get you to pass as Ken's assistant to to co-participate in an actual TIP7 calibration of a fully choked DP1500? Ask him. You will be calling all the SIM2 owners ____________ afterwards too. I'll PM you the details as the time draws close.

Peter you are so full of ______ that it borders on the absurd.

Why the hate on for SIM, did they refuse to extend credit to you?

YOUR SLANDEROUS POSTS CONTINUE TO CHARACTERIZE ME as something I am not, I DEMAnd you put me on Ignore as I will not take your personal attacks that ELEVATE MY BLOOD PRESSURE. I am reporting this to the moderator.

How I buy and even if I use credit is not relevant to the discussion. MY MOTIVATIONS ARE PURELY DRIVEN BY MY QUEST FOR PERFECTION AND I DO NOT COMPROMISE ANY AREA OF MY DESIGNS.Not that is is any of your business but I have not requested credit for anything in 15 years. Credit can be the Kiss of death for a small custom installation company, specially in periods of technological contraction like the last 10 years of the dark ages in projection systems. This dark age is ending now with the 1080p dlp's (and the hd sources), this will be a period of technological expansion, I intend to ride it catering on a one to one basis with Videophiles that are captains of Industry, or just plain Videophiles, but credit should never be used, the client has to capitalize their individual ventures with me.

re sim2
I have been to their office to see the cx-3 and it had the green tint and I complained.

Then I saw HOW DIGITAL PROJECTION deals with their lamp filtering and I took to DPI's approach. But they are now an underdog and the CX-3 sold like IPOD's. That really pissed me off. Because it hurts the cause of Videophilia.

But I am a very forgiving guy so I gave SIM2 all the chances to redeem themselves of the Green thing, and they commented in this forum how it would not suffer from the green thing for X, Y,Z reasons.

I was looking forward to a properly functioning 50-65k projector that I could use in my upcoming Saturn Moons. Then by golly THEY DID IT AGAIN. And I am not going to bite my tongue. This subject is too dear to my heart.

In any event we are wandering OFF TOPIC and in this case you should see the beef I have got with Panasonic over what they are doing with this projector.

Panasonic 3 chip dlp's UHP original green tint is what drove me to Digital Projection's lamp filtering solution and alerted me to this troublesome condition.

IOW the original panasonic was the great green monster. Well every time their engineers add another lamp the problem on non calibratability increases exponentially, now they got 4 lamps, screw that.

Hi

Peter after this post , I will most likely give up..

I never said the Sim HT 5000 was perfect or that the CX3 had no green tint.. In my visioning of the C3x, I did not notice it and I am not certain Art or Alan noticed it either... While the sample size is small.. You are the only one who seem to be complaining about it.. Let us agree for the sake of argument that your eyes and training allow you to notice what others similarly experienced people's are not able to... That is OK. My problem is that if one were to rely on your posts, one would conclude that the Sim units are absolutely unwatchable... I have repeated on this board my lack of exposure to the high end video and am not even caring to dispute your opinions.. you should know that by now... I simply did not see any GREEN monster in the CX3.... it might have been there and upon careful visioning and explaining I might see it but you seem to be in the minority as many have not reported it to be so bad or even noticeable all Alan? Art. Mathias, others? Fill in... I need to learn and my exposure to the CX3 was a real eye opener...
Anyhow you are free to express your opinion in any way you choose within the guidelines of this forum... I will ignore the overstatements from that point on.... and try to read through your posts if I deem the ratio of information to Bovine manure.... er.... ___________ , adequate

We can find things wrong with all A/V components if we dig hard enough regardless of cost. Most products do so many things right it outweighs its negatives including the components Peter has selected for his ideal system.
No one filters UHP as Digital Projection does so all other UHP DLP manufactures should be on Peters **** list as Sim so Im going to take the fact that Peter is singling out Sim to be a good sign. Sim somewhere along the line grabbed his attention.
If Sim ever filters their bulb could it be possible it makes Peters recommend product list

After much pondering i have deleted this post.

WHat the heck is the point.

Peter, just keep on rambling. I hope that folks are smart enough to filter.