AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Unlocking true bass through sealed enclosures
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Unlocking true bass through sealed enclosures

post #1 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Add what ever you want.Take shots,poke fun, but in the end keep it light!

Steve, you gotta get a life
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Add what ever you want.Take shots,poke fun, but in the end keep it light!

Steve, you gotta get a life

QFT!

for a split second there I was actually thinking about porting my IB....then I remembered why I actually built the IB...
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
......or I gotta get a life for tellin' you to get one
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:42pm
Why is everyone ripping on Steve all of a sudden?
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:45pm
Pent up holiday energy.

Too much candy and eggs.

Steve "opened the port (al)"

And it's nothing compared to the SVS HSU JL etc hustling over on the commercial sub threads.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 69
4/9/07 at 5:57pm
Quote:


And it's nothing compared to the SVS HSU JL etc hustling over on the commercial sub threads.

Q4T

I've been considering an IB, but I also like the idea of a line array of four sealed Rythmik audio 12" drivers.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 69
4/9/07 at 6:12pm
geesuz....you mofo's are ruthless!!!
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 69
4/9/07 at 6:13pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86DEKFissl4
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 69
4/9/07 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Why is everyone ripping on Steve all of a sudden?

Perhaps it is the memory of his discussions about his "invention" of a new driver alignment - the infamous LLT. People gave him a hard time because the idea that a large EBS alignment had never been proposed before is slightly funny. The basic science/theory of the Hemholtz resonator has been around for over 70 years. This new "alignment" called the Super Large Low Tune (or porting an IB) is bound to arose the same discussions as before.
JP
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 69
4/10/07 at 12:27am
Did Steve actually say he "invented" the term "LLT"?

I may have missed that...can you direct me to some of that in writing, please?

Steve is more like....hmmm....I'd say, "the first, slow clapper guy" for the LLT alignment. And when he started to clap, it gave other mortals the courage to clap along. Now many other people adopt the big frigin' box concept and make the "LLT" less rare.

I'll be next in line.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 69
4/10/07 at 12:37am
I was thinking about this a few years ago. Yeah I think the clapping thing is pretty much on. It's just no-one really ever said much. It is kinda funny.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 69
4/10/07 at 3:00am
Thread Starter 
LLT is just a choked off IB...nuf said
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 69
4/10/07 at 5:18am
Leave it to KG to come up with the best response! 'Unlocking true bass through sealed enclosures '. I was listening to music last night coming through my IB and thinking about where I started with a tube sub (actually that is the most recent in a long line) and all the arguments that the punch of an EBS alignment gives you. Overall I am listening to more realistically reproduced low frequency sound from my IB than from any other form of bass reproduction I have heard. I am no expert, and will not engage in the technobabble, but musical instruments in the region reproduced sound real, sound effects that are made up for movies containing low frequencies sound closer to what they are imitating in real life. I hooked up my tube sub just for grins and the difference is astonishing. The tube sub screams 'I am a good reproduction', the IB just doesn't scream, it's real.

Footnote - OTOH, I am really, really curious to hear bosso's creation someday.

Chuck
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 69
4/10/07 at 5:39am
The old LLT was called and equalized bass reflex.
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 69
4/10/07 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

The old LLT was called and equalized bass reflex.

Reply
Reply
post #16 of 69
4/10/07 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasw98 View Post

Leave it to KG to come up with the best response! 'Unlocking true bass through sealed enclosures '. I was listening to music last night coming through my IB and thinking about where I started with a tube sub (actually that is the most recent in a long line) and all the arguments that the punch of an EBS alignment gives you. Overall I am listening to more realistically reproduced low frequency sound from my IB than from any other form of bass reproduction I have heard. I am no expert, and will not engage in the technobabble, but musical instruments in the region reproduced sound real, sound effects that are made up for movies containing low frequencies sound closer to what they are imitating in real life. I hooked up my tube sub just for grins and the difference is astonishing. The tube sub screams 'I am a good reproduction', the IB just doesn't scream, it's real.

Footnote - OTOH, I am really, really curious to hear bosso's creation someday.

Chuck

This post is spot on, IMHO.

The vast majority of listeners definitely lack a mental database of hearing accurate bass. Most think it's too low in level and too thin.

In a case study, the average Q preferred by listeners in the study was .65. Present them with a .45 or .5 Q and you instantly fall into the minority of average preference.

This comes from the smiley curve, house curve, running the sub hot, whatever you wanna call it, it's been around since the woofer was invented.

Adding to the comet's tail is akin to raising the system Q and when the sub is running 6dB hot, there's no longer a way to compare that to anything for accuracy's sake.

Chas, my DIY hero How's that SS fiters/phase box coming?

Bosso
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 69
4/10/07 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

This post is spot on, IMHO.
Chas, my DIY hero How's that SS fiters/phase box coming?

Bosso

Thanks boss! I am just waiting for the final screening and drilling of the circuit boards to be ready and then to be manufactured so we can offer them. I have 2 of them built and running at home.

Come next September, I will be passing through your neck of the woods and may have to invite myself to stop by your place and hear your creation (hint, hint??)
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 69
4/10/07 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Chas, my DIY hero How's that SS fiters/phase box coming?

I'm glad you asked....

I think ol' Chuck is tired of me harrassing him for it
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 69
4/10/07 at 7:52am
Will d,

You must be a yungun.

Ported, vented, etc. used to be called bass reflex.

Then about the time T and S were messing about with the small signal parameters, some clown figured out you could tune a large box low and boost the low frequencies if your drivers could stand it. Called it an equalized reflex.

So being the experimenter I am, I put a low tuned port into my Altec boxes (11 cubic feet) tuned to 15 hz with a 12 db boost at 15 hz. Worked great. Two 16 ohm drivers in parallel with an 811b horn. Schweet and a loaf along 120 db with an SAE 90 watt receiver.

So now it is an LLT or EBS or any number of acronymal descriptions of an equalized reflex.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 69
4/10/07 at 7:55am
Well, Jerry, my 4 A7's only needed 30 watts of Marantz power to loaf along and fill the living room! Plus it was a convenient place to put plants on!
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 69
4/10/07 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

Will d,

You must be a yungun.

Ported, vented, etc. used to be called bass reflex.

Then about the time T and S were messing about with the small signal parameters, some clown figured out you could tune a large box low and boost the low frequencies if your drivers could stand it. Called it an equalized reflex.

So being the experimenter I am, I put a low tuned port into my Altec boxes (11 cubic feet) tuned to 15 hz with a 12 db boost at 15 hz. Worked great. Two 16 ohm drivers in parallel with an 811b horn. Schweet and a loaf along 120 db with an SAE 90 watt receiver.

So now it is an LLT or EBS or any number of acronymal descriptions of an equalized reflex.

I may be young, but I have never once seen it referred to as "equalized bass reflex". Yes I have heard of "bass reflex", a long time ago actually, but still your post was perplexing. Now if that term means literally a bass-reflex sub that has been equalized, then it obviously makes perfect sense.

Now Extended Bass Shelf...that I know of (hell, I have one).
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 69
4/10/07 at 10:36am
Maybe I can find my old speaker book tonight and copy the page(s). This is circa late 70's terminology. I did my conversion of the Altecs in 1981.

I forgot, Google is my friend.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2973

What Google had listed for that reference

Equalized bass reflex-systems are of course possible, but compared to feedback systems them do not decrease distortion and are sensiti_'eto variations in ...


Not much new under the sun.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 69
4/10/07 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

Maybe I can find my old speaker book tonight and copy the page(s). This is circa late 70's terminology. I did my conversion of the Altecs in 1981.

I forgot, Google is my friend.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2973

Yeah. that was one of three or four links on Google I could find.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 69
4/10/07 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

Not much new under the sun.

Anyone paying attention to Tom Vodhanels' early experiments detailed on HTF knows about his 36" tube subs with 10" and 12" ports
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 69
4/10/07 at 11:03am
For those who missed it a while back.

LLT = EBS with Steve's specific ruleset.

When someone wants to build a subwoofer, instead of saying make an EBS with
x,y,z, a, b, c parameters, etc.................. it was just easier to coin the term LLT
to expedite forum discussion.

What is LLT? a link was provided to explain the ruleset instead of reposting
the same data 100 times a day and clogging threads.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 69
4/10/07 at 11:59am
Right, LLT takes an EBS alignment and adds some specific requirements...I honestly don't feel that Steve tries to take all credit for being the "creator" of this alignment. A part of me totally understands how it is to enjoy something you've built to the point where you want others to also experience the same level of enjoyment.

I enjoy my sealed subs, and when space allows for ported i'll give that a try. Why can't we all just get along
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 69
4/10/07 at 12:09pm
STFU rob!

instead of playing mr. nice guy, why dont you post some more updates/pics of the 15" trio....hope you just didn't drop it there and let them collect dust now!
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 69
4/10/07 at 12:54pm
Quote:


A part of me totally understands how it is to enjoy something you've built to the point where you want others to also experience the same level of enjoyment.

Ah geez....ask my friends.

"GODDAMNIT, SCOTT!!! I don't have $300 to spend on a subwoofer!"

"...alright, then don't bitch about your toy sub all the time." *rolls eyes*

:P
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 69
4/10/07 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

STFU rob!

instead of playing mr. nice guy, why dont you post some more updates/pics of the 15" trio....hope you just didn't drop it there and let them collect dust now!

Haha the Tumult is officially no longer in the roundup because of an unfortunate event (Nephew literally stood directly on the dustcap) So its officially down to the Ava and TC-3k until further notice.

The ECM8000 is on the way for more accurate measurements More on that later.
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 69
4/10/07 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Add what ever you want.Take shots,poke fun, but in the end keep it light!

Steve, you gotta get a life

...too funny.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Unlocking true bass through sealed enclosures