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FAQ: DVD Recorders and the Analog to Digital Transition - Page 4

post #91 of 220
4/15/08 at 1:34pm
Thanks for the tip on the Panasonics.
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post #92 of 220
4/15/08 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm not sure about what you are connecting. I get the DirecTV box for the sat system, but what is this D/A converter? Do you mean for receiving digital OTA broadcasts? If that's the case all current new DVD recorders come with OTA digital tuners so you don't need a converter box. You're asking for model suggestions so I assume you want to buy a new DVDR. So, is that it? You want to hook up for OTA reception also?

Yes, the converter is for OTA digital to analog. I had an itchy trigger finger when I got my converter coupons and committed to a stand-alone converter box before doing sufficient research.

Does the DirecTV DVR permit recording from a source other than the satellite?
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post #93 of 220
5/9/08 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sggoodri View Post

I've been asked by others to re-post my following story to this thread:
____________________________________

I thought I'd briefly share my [edit: mostly - see bottom] successful experience integrating a Zenith DTT900 ATSC converter box with this DVR so that I can record digital TV off an antenna. Bye bye cable!

I chose the Zenith tuner box because I heard that it could be controlled using IR codes for an LG satellite receiver, which the DMR-EH55 knows how to control via an IR blaster. This worked! I configured the DVR setup for Antenna and DirecTV and connected the Zenith as if it were the satellite reciever, on IN3. I connected my antenna to the DVR and connected the RF antenna passthrough from the output of the DVR into the antenna input of the Zenith tuner.

I autoprogrammed the Zenith to find my local channels and went into the settings to disable auto-off. I stuck the IR blaster below its IR port.

The hardest part was configuring the channel numbering scheme. I found that the only workable scheme to make the DVR automatically change channels on the Zenith was to configure the DVR to always use three digits for the channel, and disable four-digit values. I selected 028 when the setup screen asked how the box wants channel numbers like 28 entered. This causes the zenith to treat the third digit as a subchannel number.

Note that the Panasonic sends the channel number out the IR blaster TWICE when it gets ready to record. This caused problems with the Zenith if I didn't use a numbering scheme that included the subchannel; otherwise, the Zenith would switch to the second subchannel number on the second time. For instance sending '4' would go to 4.1 and sending '4' again would go to 4.2; but 041 always went to 4.1 no matter how many times it is sent to the Zenith [edit -see bottom of post].

I spent a lot of time editing the Panasonic's TVGOS channel listings to show just the channels in my area, and selecting IN3 as the source connection. I then programmed the digital channels as follows:

For 4.1, use channel number 41
For 4.2, use channel number 42
For 17.1, use channel number 171
and so forth.

Since I have a wide screen TV, I set up the CECB to output anamorphic wide screen mode for the 16:9 HD stations. This plays back from the DVR as 16:9 full screen on my TV. It's only 480 lines, but it looks good, better than analog cable and way better than an analog antenna.

Edit/Update: I have been having problems with IR blaster control of the Zenith due to the way my Panasonic DMR-EH55 sends the channel command twice. Sometimes it sends the second command so soon after the first that instead of 171 tuning to 17.1 and then 171 tuning again to17.1, the Zenith sees 171171 and interprets this as 17.11 followed by 7.1 !

It looks like the commands are spaced apart better if the DVR is OFF when the recording is scheduled. Most of my shows have been recorded properly while the DVR was off and I wasn't watching, but when a recording started while I was watching another program the tuner control problem surfaced. I cannot find any way to turn off the double-channel-set behavior in the DVR settings, and none of the other numbering schemes I've tried work either. So, the way a DVR attempts to set the channel number remains a challenge for my own integration with a CECB and could certainly affect other people.

UPDATE:
I have verified that the DVR has problems setting the channel when recording a second program immediately after the first due to the double-channel-set problem I described above. I can reliably record one program from any channel, in isolation, when the DVR is off. Multiple programs can be automatically recorded if there is an inactive period behind them, again with the DVR off. It is when the DVR has already tuned to one channel and attempts to change to another to record from it that the problem surfaces.

I wish I could program the DVR to send three digits followed by enter rather than just three digits; this would fix the problem, as would not sending the channel number twice when starting a recording. But I see no way to accomplish either with this model of DVR. Another DVR and another CECB would probably have different interaction characteristics.

I have a Panny 75V and followed your procedures. I must say the results are great. I have the Insignia and everything that you did with the Zenith worked the same for my unit. It sure was a PITA finding my local stations and getting them put in, but it did work. I haven't programed any back to back recordings yet, but I'll let you know if it is any different with the 75V than with your Panny.

Thanks for all your work!
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post #94 of 220
6/23/08 at 1:02am
How to put the video into my personal website

I have a video which is converted into flv and swf formats. I did it with a software called Flash Video MX Pro. The software is great. I added many special effects with it. But how can I share my video with my friends. Someone told me that I could upload it to my personal website. Can anyone kindly enough to tell me how to put it into my personal website? And will the special effects influnce the quality? Thank you.
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post #95 of 220
7/27/08 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk54911 View Post

Why can't they just make a box that will convert the digital signal to analog, then the DVR/VCR can tune in the station it's set to record just like the good old days?

My thought exactly. If the new TVs are capable of doing it, why not have a stand alone device to do the same thing.

I really hope there is such a device that is programmable (so I can still use my DVR) that comes out soon.

B.
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post #96 of 220
7/29/08 at 1:58pm
I've read through this entire thread, and must admit I am still confused.

1. NTSC tuners - are you saying that even with cable one will need a converter box, analog to digital?

2. Someone said Panasonic said using a converter on each unit will allow it to work normally -- is that why the ones sold in Canada right now (and I think the new non-HD Pannies) come with an IR blaster?

3. I have an eH50 which I love, and wanted to buy one of the horribly overpriced eh55s before they are gone, but not if they won't work after cable goes digital.
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post #97 of 220
7/29/08 at 6:31pm
Thread Starter 
As long as you're still using analog cable, your DVD recorder should continue to work the same way it does now, except for the TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) feature if it has one (like the analog Panasonics have).

When your cable company moves the channels that you watch, to digital, then you'll need whatever digital cable box they provide. The digital-to-analog converters that people are talking about so much now are only for over-the-air signals from an antenna.
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post #98 of 220
8/22/08 at 12:19am
I'm not sure where to post this question but here it goes.
I have the Sony RDRHX780 and I'm wondering If I record the Olympic closing ceremonies in "HQ" which could be around 3-4 hours like the opening ceremony. I'm recording it to the Hard Disk Drive first. Can I dub all 3-4 hours of it to a DVD+R DL after? Would the player reconvert the recorded source to fit the 8.5GBs or would I be forced to make/dub multiple DVD+R DL disc. I know that using HQ mode would probably record the event well over 10GBs. I'm just wondering if it would actually reconvert it and fit it to the dual layer DVD.

Thanks,

P.S. If you guys need more clarification just ask (hope I wasn't too confusing)
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post #99 of 220
8/23/08 at 4:33pm
It would be best to record at a speed that will fit on a DL disc. Otherwise, you will have to do a real-time dub to disc, at a slightly reduced quality from recording at the correct speed in the HDD. That is because the DVDR will have to decode, then encode again, to change the speed, to fit all on a single DL disc. You could break the 4 HQ hour recording into separate titles, and record it to 4 discs, in HQ, at high-speed.
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post #100 of 220
8/24/08 at 12:49am
Hmm alright I'll change the settings then.

Thanks for replying!!!
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post #101 of 220
8/29/08 at 11:01pm
I want to know the way to rip convert DVD to ipod, ipod video converter(Windows/Mac).Can you help me?
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post #102 of 220
8/30/08 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by broook View Post

I want to know the way to rip convert DVD to ipod, ipod video converter(Windows/Mac).Can you help me?

I'll give you the easy way. Google DVD Fab Decrypter, download it any buy it. That will rip any commercial DVD you can buy and seems to be updated everytime Sony or Disney releases a new copy protection scheme. Also buy the mobile player add-in. Then you have a complete package that will rip the DVD and convert it to iPod format (as well as a few others) for downloading to your iPod.

If you want something free you will have to rumage through the videohelp.com tools and put together a selection of them to do what you want. That takes time and knowledge and a willingness to work with hacker tools.
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post #103 of 220
9/24/08 at 11:46am
How many hours does a DVD-R hold without visible degradation (as compared to live DTV)?
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post #104 of 220
9/24/08 at 12:31pm
If you're a stickler like me, I'd say no more than 2.
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post #105 of 220
9/24/08 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

How many hours does a DVD-R hold without visible degradation (as compared to live DTV)?

Depends on what you play it on. A Panasonic LP mode (4hr) recorded disk will probably look as good as XP mode (1hr) if played on a 19" CRT. On my 50" Plasma, the minimum I use is SP mode (2hr), however I can see a slight difference when recording football between SP an XP. Enough of a difference that I record all my sports in XP mode now.
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post #106 of 220
9/24/08 at 4:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

How many hours does a DVD-R hold without visible degradation (as compared to live DTV)?

You can see comparison images for different recording lengths from a Panasonic DMR-EH75V here.
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post #107 of 220
9/24/08 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

How many hours does a DVD-R hold without visible degradation (as compared to live DTV)?

Kelson's quite right about screen size. The other big factor is what sort of content? Does it have a lot of fast movement? Is it in color? Those are more demanding than B&W, or animation. I have a 56" 720p DLP. I find that I can stretch recording an old B&W film to say 130m or even 140m, without much, if any, degradation. Animation can be stretched too, but rarely needs to be.

Another important factor is if it is letter boxed in 4x3, and will be zoomed to fill the screen. This will be more demanding of PQ, and better be recorded at SP, or better.
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post #108 of 220
9/25/08 at 8:44am
8 hours is not bad, and comparable to the ~11 hours I get from Super VHS. If I used a dual-layer DVD-R, can that be extended to 16 hours?
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post #109 of 220
9/25/08 at 4:16pm
The 8hr speed is really just good for something like a talk show where you don't care at all about PQ.
Video tape was more forgiving for longer recording times than DVDs. I would occasionally use SLP on video tape but that would be very rarely on DVDs. BTW you wouldn't get 16hrs on a DL disc. A DL disc isn't quite 2x a SL disc.
For long events a DVDR w/hdd, like the Philips 3576 is really the way to go. You can use a good speed like SP and still get lots and lots of hours on the HDD.
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post #110 of 220
9/29/08 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

BTW you wouldn't get 16hrs on a DL disc. A DL disc isn't quite 2x a SL disc.

True. A dual-layer would actually be 14 hours.

So far I haven't seen any DVD-recorders that can handle dual-layer discs. Do they exist?

I've recorded some stuff using my Panasonic DVR's superslow mode, and it definitely looks like crap. It's okay as long as you're watching a show like Law & Order where everybody stands-around, but if there's action it quickly devolves to pixelation. I imagine EP/8 hour mode on a DVD-R would have the same flaw.

I used to have a Digital VHS recorder, and I loved its Low Speed Times 10 (LS10) mode. It could capture approximately 35 hours on a single 3.5 hour S-VHS tape, and still look as good as over-the-air standard definition ATSC. But alas D-VHS never gained any traction (mainly because nobody wants to pay $2000 for a HD-capable VCR - the manufacturers were too greedy). The reason it could squeeze so much video is because a tape holds approximately 50 gigabytes of data! That's equivalent to a Bluray disc.
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post #111 of 220
9/29/08 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

True. A dual-layer would actually be 14 hours.

So far I haven't seen any DVD-recorders that can handle dual-layer discs. Do they exist?

Yes Panasonic DVDRs from '06 and on have supported dual layer discs. Note some of the ES machines with HDDs made you first record to the HDD and then high speed copy to a dual layer disc and the other ES machines of '06 required you to close the first layer before recording to the second so it wasn't to handy for one long recording. With the introduction of the EZ series they handled DL discs much better. Not very many standalone DVDR brands support writing to DL discs though.
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post #112 of 220
9/29/08 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

So far I haven't seen any DVD-recorders that can handle dual-layer discs. Do they exist?

Pioneers do an excellent job burning DVD+R DL discs. I have been using Verbatims and don't recall ever ending up with a coaster on a Pio 640 or Pio 650. No problem playing them back on various brands of DVD players.
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post #113 of 220
9/29/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tac7 View Post

Pioneers do an excellent job burning DVD+R DL discs. I have been using Verbatims and don't recall ever ending up with a coaster on a Pio 640 or Pio 650. No problem playing them back on various brands of DVD players.

I second that remark!
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post #114 of 220
10/4/08 at 7:29am
Hi everyone.... I just discovered this site, and BOY!!! do I have questions. I'm sure that my questions have been answered somewhere, but there is so much reading in here that it is becoming too overwhelming for me.

That being said, let me start by introducing myself, and then get to my questions. My name is Steven. I live in Forest Hills, (Queens) NY. I do not own or subscribe to any Cable or Satellite TV services. I just have standard TVs on which I pull in whatever stations come in on the airwaves for free. Also, I still use VCRs. I am now discovering that besides having to prepare for the new DTV signal (to take effect in February of 2009), I will also have to get myself new Recorder devices (so that I can do Timer Recordings of my favorite programs when I am away from home).

I am finding out (from the different manufacturers) that they don't currently have (or make) a VCR that will be able to do Timer Recording of programs. I also am being told that even if I get a Digital Converter box for my VCR, it will NOT be able to do Timer Recording... It will only be able to record from whatever station the box is on. I have never recorded in DVD/DVR format, so I am really very ignorant when it comes to this. There are so many different formats out there (DVR, DVR-, DVR+, DVRW, DV-RW, etc...), and they say that some of these are not comaptable on other players, that I'm not sure what I would need to look for. Also, I would definitely need a disc that I could record over (constantly, as I tape a daily Soap Opera, which I do not need to keep once I've watched it). Any advice would be appreciated (along with specific Makes and Model numbers)....

Please e-mail me at cueball070358@aol.com
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post #115 of 220
10/4/08 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cueball703 View Post

I am finding out (from the different manufacturers) that they don't currently have (or make) a VCR that will be able to do Timer Recording of programs. I also am being told that even if I get a Digital Converter box for my VCR, it will NOT be able to do Timer Recording... It will only be able to record from whatever station the box is on.

There are 2 converter boxes that have programable timers, the DTVPal and the Zinwell ZAT. Of the 2, the Zinwell is favored. It has more timer slots and the clock can be set manually. With a gov't coupon this is the cheapest way out. But you will have to set the timer on the converter as well as the timer on the recorder for each show you want to record. Doable but not convenient.

The other choice available is a new DVD recorder with hard disk. This will allow you to record many many hours of high-quality video for timeshifted playback without ever having to worry about changing a tape. Your options here are the Philips 3576 or the Magnavox 2160. Both are under $300. Check the main sticky thread on them for more info.
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post #116 of 220
10/4/08 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Of the 2, the Zinwell is favored.

To say the least - that is, if you want timers that actually work.
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post #117 of 220
10/4/08 at 10:02pm
Kelson's right, get the Philips DVDR with HDD. It has a built ATSC tuner, that will tune the digital broadcasts. You won't need a separate converter box with it. It will need either S-Video, or composite video, and R/L audio inputs on your TV for you to see its picture, and hear it. It won't pass its signal through a coax/antenna input into the TV.
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post #118 of 220
10/18/08 at 11:51am
As a zombie rising from the grave to munch on your brains, it may be that TVGOS will remain somewhat undead even after analog is killed off.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14891000

Here's the direct link to the TVGOS website (now owned by our friends at Macrovision™®ⓒ):
http://www.macrovision.com/dtv/10053.htm
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post #119 of 220
11/9/08 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

There are 2 converter boxes that have programable timers, the DTVPal and the Zinwell ZAT. Of the 2, the Zinwell is favored. It has more timer slots and the clock can be set manually.

THANK YOU, Kelson. I was about to purchase a box with a timer, a DTVPal, since they are available locally. But I want to be able to set the clock, without depending on the EPG. So thanks for the tip on the Zinwell 970A.

Actually, there is a third box with a timer listed on the wikipedia.org "Comparison of CECB units", a Maxmedia Lutro. But some of the nice to know nitty-gritty on these units is hard to come by.

Richard
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post #120 of 220
11/27/08 at 6:54pm
I've got a Panny EH55 and a Panny E75 (number's close, but not right. Anyway, the one with the 80G hard drive and the VHS). I'm this close to buying a Philips with another 160 HDD (been "this close" for some time now, I know, but there's a tipping point, as follows)

My Panny TV has died and as I always expected it to be my last analog model, the time has arrived for HDTV in the form of a widescreen LCD. I could ask for advice on that and, if offered, I'll gladly read same, but best hurry 'cuz tomorrow's Black Friday and I've been dark for over two weeks.

But I'm not trying to wander off topic here. I've read through much of this topic, and want clarification in one spot as to what I face.

Do I understand that each TV (or DVR, which is of course nothing more than a TV without viewing capability and with recording capability) must have its own STB to receive OTA signals. That's two boxes right there (three if I get the Philips) and four if I want to watch OTA though the TV alone. Correct?

Do I understand also that with these wonderful boxes I will be able to record only the channel on which the box is set and no other channel until I manually change the box? Is timer recording even possible? Can I at least record more than one program on the same channel?

Much has been said to the effect that this only affects OTA, that cable users will be unaffected. But if, er, when, the cable company dispense with analog programming, won't they require that I buy one of their boxes? How many inputs will these have?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is how much value my Panny's will have in the future. They're still working great, though I haven't used them since my TV bombed. If I get the Philips, I know it'll have an ATSC tuner, so let's say that becomes my primary recorder. What role for the others?

I realize that if you subscribe to digital programming you get the provider's DVR, but one of the reasons I've always hated that is that you lose the wonderful feature of high speed dubbing off the HDD. Add to that the growing propensity of providers to mark things "copy once" and I'll go that route only when forced. (I did read somewhere on this forum that you can dub to an external recorder with HDD and from there high speed dub to a DVD, and that's good, but it still requires one real time dub and I had enough of those in VHS days).

I mind the expense of all this, but mostly I object to any and all rewiring I'm gonna have have to do over and above putting in the new TV. I fear that it won't be done in the best way to preserve my equipment and options, but rather the simplest way in order to receive a picture. This is because I'm in a wheelchair and I probably won;t be able to reach all that I need to do. And, if I have to decide whether to enable multiple STB's, each on of those takes up space.

It's a nightmare, the implications of which I know Congress did not consider when mandating it upon us. Sorta like the recent sting of bailouts, but again, I won't get off topic.

PatH
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AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › FAQ: DVD Recorders and the Analog to Digital Transition