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How do you get 1:1 pixel mapping on a 50" DLP?

post #1 of 21
4/17/07 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 
I've tried changing resolutions and moving the tv settings from 4:3 to 16:9 but nothing looks good on the set.

I've got a samsung HLR5067W. I'd dreamed of surfing the net on my new htpc, but the text is so blurry , its giving me headaches.

Anyone have tips or know of some guide online?
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post #2 of 21
4/17/07 at 10:05pm
You can't get there from here. At least not in any way that I can think of. The best PQ I got was using HDMI with my Sammy 61" DLP. Slight overscan at the bottom, but other than that, pretty solid picture. John
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post #3 of 21
4/18/07 at 6:48am
You need to go to the Display Devices > Rear Projection Units forum and look for the thread that deals w/ Samsung HLRxxx sets. Search for "service menu."

Basically, Samsung sets have a "digital overscan" enabled by default. To get 1:1 pixel mapping, you need to disable this digital overscan using the service menu. On some Sammy's, the digital overscan will get re-enabled once you leave the service menu, depending on the firmware...not sure about your set though.
I've heard that this year's HLTxxx set do not give you the option to disable this digital overscan in the service menu...bad news for people looking to use them as a monitor.

Obviously, you'll also want to use 1280x720 as your desktop resolution, as that is the resolution of your display. The image will still be cropped a little, as there is a natural overscan built into the set as well...this cannot be disabled. However you can use the "overscan correction" features of your video cards drivers to compensate for this (unless you are using an Nvida 88xx, in which case this feature is broken).

Confused yet?
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post #4 of 21
4/18/07 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

You need to go to the Display Devices > Rear Projection Units forum and look for the thread that deals w/ Samsung HLRxxx sets. Search for "service menu."

Basically, Samsung sets have a "digital overscan" enabled by default. To get 1:1 pixel mapping, you need to disable this digital overscan using the service menu. On some Sammy's, the digital overscan will get re-enabled once you leave the service menu, depending on the firmware...not sure about your set though.
I've heard that this year's HLTxxx set do not give you the option to disable this digital overscan in the service menu...bad news for people looking to use them as a monitor.

Obviously, you'll also want to use 1280x720 as your desktop resolution, as that is the resolution of your display. The image will still be cropped a little, as there is a natural overscan built into the set as well...this cannot be disabled. However you can use the "overscan correction" features of your video cards drivers to compensate for this (unless you are using an Nvida 88xx, in which case this feature is broken).

Confused yet?

You are correct.

I have overscan thru HDMI too on my 67" DLP Sammy and there is "almost" nothing that can be done.

The closest option is to invite a professional calibrator.

They can reduce overscan to the bare minimum with their magic tricks.

Service costs $400-$500.
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post #5 of 21
4/18/07 at 7:35am
Switch to the VGA interface which does not overscan its iinputs. Samsung units do an excellent job of handling VGA inputs from PC in fact there is a whole chapter in your Samsung users manual on PCs. You can can get true 1:1 Pixel mapping without any loss of resolution and might not even notice a slight degradation of video color due to the use of analog video.
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post #6 of 21
4/18/07 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Switch to the VGA interface which does not overscan its iinputs. Samsung units do an excellent job of handling VGA inputs from PC in fact there is a whole chapter in your Samsung users manual on PCs. You can can get true 1:1 Pixel mapping without any loss of resolution and might not even notice a slight degradation of video color due to the use of analog video.

True, but I want my HDMI, I paid for it
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post #7 of 21
4/18/07 at 7:57am
A friend just purchased a Samsung HLS-5088. There were several issues regarding overscan that had to be resolved.

First, his Nvidia 7800GS wanted to send a 1080i signal instead of a 1080p signal. It was very blury at 1080i. Once I got it switched to 1080p, the image became clearer.

Second, I turned on Cleartype in the appearance-effects section of the display properties (in Windows XP). This cleared up the text even more.

Third, I turned DNIe and overscan off in the service menu. With overscan on, there was about 5% overscan. With it off, there was still about 1-2% overscan with more horizontal overscan than vertical.

Finally, I used Nvidia's overscan adjustment to reduce the picture slightly. It still sends a 1080p signal, but the actual visible resolution is reduced slightly to fit the screen. It is a resolution within a resolution.

Because the horizontal overscan is greater than the vertical, the image still doesn't fill the screen perfectly. However, it is extremely sharp. In the video diplays forum there are instructions for using Powerstrip to create the proper resolution within a resolution for the Samsung TV's. I plan to try that next. You may want to try those directions.
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post #8 of 21
4/18/07 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

A friend just purchased a Samsung HLS-5088. There were several issues regarding overscan that had to be resolved.

First, his Nvidia 7800GS wanted to send a 1080i signal instead of a 1080p signal. It was very blury at 1080i. Once I got it switched to 1080p, the image became clearer.

Second, I turned on Cleartype in the appearance-effects section of the display properties (in Windows XP). This cleared up the text even more.

Third, I turned DNIe and overscan off in the service menu. With overscan on, there was about 5% overscan. With it off, there was still about 1-2% overscan with more horizontal overscan than vertical.

Finally, I used Nvidia's overscan adjustment to reduce the picture slightly. It still sends a 1080p signal, but the actual visible resolution is reduced slightly to fit the screen. It is a resolution within a resolution.

Because the horizontal overscan is greater than the vertical, the image still doesn't fill the screen perfectly. However, it is extremely sharp. In the video diplays forum there are instructions for using Powerstrip to create the proper resolution within a resolution for the Samsung TV's. I plan to try that next. You may want to try those directions.

desertdome,

Let us know about your Powerstrip finding.
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post #9 of 21
4/18/07 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

A friend just purchased a Samsung HLS-5088. There were several issues regarding overscan that had to be resolved.

First, his Nvidia 7800GS wanted to send a 1080i signal instead of a 1080p signal. It was very blury at 1080i. Once I got it switched to 1080p, the image became clearer.

Second, I turned on Cleartype in the appearance-effects section of the display properties (in Windows XP). This cleared up the text even more.

Third, I turned DNIe and overscan off in the service menu. With overscan on, there was about 5% overscan. With it off, there was still about 1-2% overscan with more horizontal overscan than vertical.

Finally, I used Nvidia's overscan adjustment to reduce the picture slightly. It still sends a 1080p signal, but the actual visible resolution is reduced slightly to fit the screen. It is a resolution within a resolution.

Because the horizontal overscan is greater than the vertical, the image still doesn't fill the screen perfectly. However, it is extremely sharp. In the video diplays forum there are instructions for using Powerstrip to create the proper resolution within a resolution for the Samsung TV's. I plan to try that next. You may want to try those directions.

That's another good point desertdome, DNIe needs to be disabled as well to get the best image.

As far as the horizontal/vertical overscan goes, there "shouldn't" be any more horizontally than there is vertically. It's likely that the image is just shifted more to one side than the other...it usually is out of the box. There are adjustments in the service menu that can be used to center the image. If this isn't the case for you, then that's a new one.

FWIW...I have an HLS5088, which I had calibrated by Elaib at Avical, and it's the best display device I've ever had. No complaints.
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post #10 of 21
4/18/07 at 1:50pm
From what I've read at the Rear projection forum, HLS-xx88 sets let you permanently disable the overscan, HLS-xx87 sets do not (the overscan setting is reset after a power cycle).

I'm not sure if it's been determined yet how the new sets (HLT) behave.

Ozy
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post #11 of 21
4/18/07 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
If i go into the service menu to disable overscan and DNIe, will that affect the pq when using sources? or is they a way I can set profiles.

Edit: I got into the service menu but dont see "overscan" as an option. Where can I switch it off?

I currently have a Hi-Def xbox cable connected through VGA. Would adding a switch make me lose pq to either a newly connected pc or xbox?
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post #12 of 21
4/18/07 at 4:37pm
I would check over in the rear projection forum for more detailed information about the service menu.

In general, disabling overscan should do nothing but improve the quality of your picture, no matter what sources you are using.

Adding a switch should do nothing for DVI/HDMI picture quality, and likely close to nothing to VGA quality.

Ozy
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post #13 of 21
4/18/07 at 4:53pm
Thread Starter 
I tried to set it up over VGA to compare pq etc.. but I keep getting "Not Supported Mode"

I set the reso way down at 800x600. Is there some weird reason why it wont work.
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post #14 of 21
4/18/07 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeakerbox View Post

I tried to set it up over VGA to compare pq etc.. but I keep getting "Not Supported Mode"

I set the reso way down at 800x600. Is there some weird reason why it wont work.

It is your video card / driver not sending correct info to the monitor.


I compared VGA and HDMI and found HDMI better. Of course is just my subjective opinion.

I calibrated both VGA and HDMI with Digital Video Essentials.
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post #15 of 21
4/19/07 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
The picture I can get now is with DVI, when I go into the nvida control panel it wont let me select any other output than through DVI, even though via is hooked up as well.
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post #16 of 21
4/22/07 at 12:47pm
Thread Starter 
bump for some help.
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post #17 of 21
4/22/07 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeakerbox View Post

The picture I can get now is with DVI, when I go into the nvida control panel it wont let me select any other output than through DVI, even though via is hooked up as well.

Either VGA out on your card is broken, VGA cable loose or VGA cable bad.

Also, does your TV actually support 800x600? try 1280x720. If it supports 720p, it should be fine.
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post #18 of 21
4/24/07 at 4:23pm
Most VGA cables have only 15 pins with one pin missing. You need to make sure you have a 16 pin cable to get the full 1920 x 1080 resolution. It should display all standard resolutions up to there just fine but it may stretch them. make sure your refresh rate is set low enough, try 60Hz for testing. If it doesn't quite fill the entire screen you can hit the P. Size button on your remote and go to the third option I believe and increase the size of the image. The largest resolution I get get to work without going to 1920 x 1080 and still having correct aspect ration is something like 136? x 768 or something like that.

I have also read that if you have a harmony remote you can get the code to disable overscan from the remote. I believe it was a post from Eliab on the displays forum. The problem is that you need to access the service menu to change the setting but when you turn off the set it resets. By using the code through the remote it doesn't go into the service menu and you can have it work without it reseting it. I believe you could get the code to program your harmony remote by PMing Eliab.

This is all from memory so I hope everything is acurate.
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post #19 of 21
4/24/07 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthwhit View Post

Most VGA cables have only 15 pins with one pin missing. You need to make sure you have a 16 pin cable to get the full 1920 x 1080 resolution.

this statement is a real news for me.

any links to prove this statement?
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post #20 of 21
4/24/07 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthwhit View Post


I have also read that if you have a harmony remote you can get the code to disable overscan from the remote. I believe it was a post from Eliab on the displays forum. The problem is that you need to access the service menu to change the setting but when you turn off the set it resets. By using the code through the remote it doesn't go into the service menu and you can have it work without it reseting it. I believe you could get the code to program your harmony remote by PMing Eliab.

This is all from memory so I hope everything is acurate.

This is correct, except that I don't think anyone is going to be able to get the codes by PMing Eliab. From what I understand, he doesn't participate at AVS anymore due to all the misinformation, arguing, and flaming that goes on in the threads related to calibration of display devices.

I think one would either have to hire Eliab to calibrate their display (which IMO is essential to getting the most out of it, particularly w/ Samsung DLP's), or perhaps petition one of the other users that have had their display calibrated and had their remote programmed with the correct codes. Maybe send them your learning remote and have them put the codes in. Obviously the Eliab route is easier, but more costly (but very much worth the expense).
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post #21 of 21
4/26/07 at 10:30am
The proof I have is with my television. I have the 5687 and am using an ati 1900gt I can have the resolution set for 1080P and use the 15 pin cable the image is sqeezed in be horizontal black bars on both sides while filling the vertical space. I change cables to a 16 pin vga cable without restarting or changing settings in any way and the image fills the screen. I have tested with multiple 15 pin cables with the same results. The vga is going through a dvi adapter on the pc side. This is with a fresh install of XPpro and using most recednt catalyst drivers. Same results when using powerstrip. That's the best I can give you for proof at the moment.
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