Sony VGX-XL3 - Page 104

REPLY: Francis, that's bloody BRILLIANT! Thank you SO MUCH for posting this for us. Now, all we have to do to compare the Sapphire cards side-by-side is "hide" columns. And it appears at first blush that the matrix also includes the HD6670 cards (although I can't tell yet whether it includes the newest Low profile unit).

This was GOLD Francis. I hope you were able to get a Guiness with that burger and cold fries?

Cheers!
Robert.

The 400 W "requirement" doesn't match the actual power consumption.


There's ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL to buy a 4550 card. It's outdated. Period.

The 5450/5550/5570 are OK, but if you care about 3D (and slightly better picture quality) you need a 6xxx series card. From personal experience I know that MSI's low profile 5570 and Sapphire's 6570 Ultimate fits perfectly inside the XL302 and works great with no problems whatsoever.

I've actually managed to catch up with the whole thread now.


If these are "micro stutters" I guess you're experiencing a 24p issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p). If that's the case you need to adjust the refresh rate.


Unless your drive's faulty, BD playback can be enjoyed in it's full glory using the original drive.


Yes, just adjust the refresh rate to 24 Hz.


Not likely. Modern graphics card have built in hardware acceleration for BD playback and that almost completely offloads the CPU.


Hmmm... Like I mentioned to Tony above, the graphics card takes care of all that. This sounds more like your codec's not taking advantage of the GPU's hardware acceleration.

Even with the original E6400 CPU and the 5570 card my CPU load were rarely over 20 % when playing BD's. Actually more like 5-10 %. And if my memory serves me right I didn't have any problems with the original 7600GTL or the 8600GT I later upgraded to either.

Upgrading the CPU typically doesn't help. Have you managed to solve this?

Was switching between eBay, Google and various card sites. Nearly didn't click on the link

I'm nearly certain I will be going for the 5450, not least because it's inxpensive. I'll be using my 301 for netflix, is a higher card going to give me a much better image (never did understand what 3D cards did).

For whomever might be interested, note this upcoming Newegg "Shell Shocker" Deal: Available from 1:00 PM - 2:59 PM Pacific Time today, 01/20/12

SAPPHIRE 100324L Radeon HD 6570 2GB DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card 480 Stream Processing Units
$49.99 After $15 MIR (Reg. $84.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102942




To access the deal you'll need to click this link after 1:00 PM PT: http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellS...m-_-singleitem

Firstly Id like to thank everyone for your replies and welcoming me to your community

@fjk61011

Yeah, Im not sure why they claim it needs a 400watt psu? maybe they are just being over cautious? From feedback it seems works fine in our systems and has very little power consumption. Plus Like relobe said

@REnniga

Lol people have thought I had a liver problem on other forums too lol, I still use the name though (Im 6'4" and 18 stone).

Thanks for your detailed response, I don't fancy hard wiring my dvd drive so think I will stick with 32 bit (plus I think I would lose some keyboard function buttons) I understand that only 3.5gig is usable on a 32 bit system? wasting my other 512mb of ram, that was the only reason I though of upgrading, but hey, I will still have 1.5gig more than stock.

REnniga and relobe are making me wish I had gone for the SAPPHIRE 100324L Radeon HD 6570 2GB DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

Though I guess the Sapphire 11166-02-20R HD 5450 1GB DDR3 PCIE HDMI Graphics Card that I ordered uses less than half the power of the HD6570 (underload) so will hopefully be more compatible and cooler (I guess) Plus at £26.90 its a real bargain (for rip off Britain). I use a usb powered external hard drive with my system too so I am trying to save energy if I can.

My memory came today so now I am just waiting for my hd5450 and I will install them and report back

Oliver

newegg dont ship to Ireland. Besides, I'm banned from buying stuff from the US ever since i bought a 3 foot model of the Starship Enterprise. "You bought what! For how much!"

OK, a new question. Instead of converting all my vinyl LPs to digital, I'm going down a road suggested by Robert.

In the mean time, there is analogue line in and line out on my xl301. I want to play vinyl LPs through these but there doesn't seem to be a way to output on the line out

REPLY: Questions, Francis:
1) Does your turntable have pre-amp?
2) What are you wanting to 'output' to from the composite L/R outputs; your HDTV or your Receiver/Home Audio system?

This article discusses the pre-amp issues for turntables. Although you aren't now contemplating 'ripping' (converting) the majority of your analog vinyl to digital, if your collection is large there will undoubtedly be some which you will have difficulty finding in .MP3 format, and will need to either rip, or keep waiting and searching for someone to rip and post in .MP3. Or purchase and download from iTunes or other provider; a last resort for me for things I already purchased and own on vinyl or cassette tape.
Rip Your Records: http://www.pcworld.com/article/11781...r_records.html


REPLY: Wow, that's harsh! And wifely retribution is often served cold!
If you're talking about the original NCC-1701 then I think the prohibition is clearly a case of cruel and unusual punishment. I mean what self-respecting Trekker hasn't wanted to possess that?
However that said, if you bought the NCC-1701-A model, or later, then the punishment imposed by your better half fits the "crime" (poor judgment), and is an appropriate lesson for you; teaching you that taste matters, and bad taste has consequences!

Cheers!
Robert.

PS. Trivial side note: My third year of college I attended a lecture presented on campus by pre-CGI special effects wizards and cinematographers Linwood Dunn and Douglas Trumbull. The real star of that evening however was the original 11-foot long principal photography model of the NCC-1701 "Enterprise" mounted on stage behind the lectern! (it's now in the Smithsonian).
I think my presence at that lecture has established my 'nerd' street creds for life.
Restoration photos: http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=8672

[i][color="Blue"]REPLY: Wow, that's harsh! And wifely retribution is often served cold!
If you're talking about the original NCC-1701 then I think the prohibition is clearly a case of cruel and unusual punishment. I mean what self-respecting Trekker hasn't wanted to possess that?
However that said, if you bought the NCC-1701-A model, or later, then the punishment imposed by your better half fits the "crime" (poor judgment), and is an appropriate lesson for you; teaching you that taste matters, and bad taste has consequences!

Cheers!
Robert.


It's the

"N C C 1 7 O 1, no bloody A B C or D"

The line in and line out are on a little 2"x 4" card which has also component sockets, it's not marked but I'm guessing its component out. So the line out is probably associated with them.

My TV is in the living room and my audio stuff is in the dining room. As the xl301 is now in the living room, I have a bit of thinking to do.

I have two turntables. One has an inbuilt pre-amp. I was looking to upgrade turntable and a separate pre-amp, finances are an issue at the moment.

I've copied one LP to the xl301 via the line in and SonicStage. SonicStage outputs via HDMI to an Onkyo A/V Reciever.

The manual for the xl301 says Line out is for audio devices. I'll do a little checking tomorrow

Cheers!
Robert.

PS. Anyone wishing to read more about the use of virtual RAM Disk / RAM Drive, this .PDF of the Dataram RamDisk User Manual offers a good explanation. Those of you whom own one of the VGX-XL* systems with the Intel ICH8DH Chipset (XL3, XL301, XL302, etc.) and are running 32-bit Windows 7 or Windows Vista, can install the 8GB of RAM supported by your Intel Chipset and designate the 4GB block of surplus installed memory as your RAM Disk (RAM Drive). In my thinking, given the aditional obstacles (issues) encountered upgrading these systems to 64-bit, virtual RAM Disk / RAM Drive is a good way to capture most of the primary advantage of 64-bit, but staying in the 32-bit environment for which these systems were designed. [Note: The utility which I use, "Dataram RAMDisk" is freeware (up to 4GB disk size). Disks larger than 4GB require registration and a license which can be purchased for $14.99 USD. Registration and license are not required for RAM disks size up to 4 GB.]

If anyone decides to give it a try (and you happen to already have four 2GB RAM dimms you can stick in your machine), run a boot time test on your system before, and after creating your RAM Disk, and share the results with us. According to the available literature a virtual RAM Drive swap/page file is about 50 times faster than a HDD!

http://memory.dataram.com/__document..._Manual_35.pdf

Looks like our wait for a return of HDD affordability is going to require patience ...

Floodwaters Are Gone, but Supply Chain Issues Linger
New York Times - Jan. 20, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/21/bu...date&emc=aua22

"Before the floods, Thailand produced about 40 percent to 45 percent of the world's hard disk drives, the invaluable and ubiquitous storage devices of the digital age. It is now becoming clear that it will be months significantly longer than initially expected before production of hard drives returns to antediluvian (pre-flood) levels."

Cheers!
Robert.

Ok guys and gals, I have a straitforward part philosophical/part technical question for any of you whom might have an opinion to offer; or can clarify my thinking. The answer may not be as straitforward, but I'm bumping up against the question:

a) We have been discussing on this thread over the past couple of weeks video/graphics card replacement options
b) We have learned that the actual power draw of some of these cards is much lower than previously thought (an assumption largely based upon the manufacturer's specified minimum power supply wattage),
c) The RADEON HD5400 series DDR3 memory low profile cards (fan-less and fan-cooled) AND the RADEON HD6600 series GDDR5 memory low profile cards will work in our XL systems
d) The HD5400 series cards have a Core Clock speed: 650MHz; Stream Processors: 80 Stream Processing Units; Effective Memory Clock: 1600MHz; 64-bit memory interface; OpenGL 3.2
e) The newHD6600 series cards have a Core Clock speed: 800MHz; Stream Processors: 480 Stream Processing Units; Effective Memory Clock: 1000MHz (4.0Gbps); 128-bit memory interface; OpenGL 4.1

Given that there currently appears to be only a $30-$40 (US) average difference in cost between the two series cards, and ...
given that there appears to be a huge performance difference between the two series cards in the areas we want to go with these cards (smooth DVD and Blu-ray and HDTV video rendering), then the question is ...
"how does it make sense to go with a new purchase of a HD5400 series card vs. going with a HD6600 series card"?

Is it just the relatively small cost difference? (a very small difference when evaluating as a cost:benefit ratio for a HTPC)
If not just cost, then what else am I missing, or not considering? (If it's something obvious I'm going to feel really stupid).

Cheers!
Robert.

Hi all..
sorry been awol in a while but had RL issues to deal with and hadn't progressed at all with my 302..
However I now am the proud owner of the X6800 processor and difference is amazing...
I now have no micro stutter at all and cpu frequancy usage has fallen from between 90-100% to 65-88%
as for running a GPU with fan, I TRULY CANNOT HEAR IT... even with the lid off it is not audible over the cooling fans
It seems to me that although the GPU relieves the cpu of alot of its work, it in someway causes the cpu to also have to work faster.. but use less cpu.
unsure of why or how but cpu usage was before only running at 30% ish but the frequency was the issue now the frequency usage has fallen dramatically and cpu usage is still only about 30%

Hi paden,

You have been mentioned in dispatches in your absence. Which x6800 do you have?

The x6600 I'm looking at in my nifty chart that I discovered shows the cards to be dual slot. They wont fit in my xl301

I've been thinking, not neccessarly a good thing. Anyway, I've found a setting which sends signal via my Line-out to my A/V Reciever whick outputs in stereo to my speakers

Success. It seems that the xl301 passes the Line-in signal to the line out. I can play my LPs through the xl301. Also, I can transfer the LPs to digital files with SonicStage.

Woohoo!

Well hey there relobe, speaking of posters who drift in and out, good to see you're still around.

I have to admit that if I was in the market for a new card I'd be awful tempted to try a 6XXX. But somebody just mentioned something worth remembering: the 7600GTL had a passive water-cooling heatsink attached to it and you will NOT be reusing that on any ATI card because the goddamned alignment pins are different between ATI and NVidia (sounds like a need for IEEE or somebody to publish an indusry standard). So the fan issue is actually quite acute. I appreciate that there may be and in fact perhap definitely ARE card fans that are inaudible but my experience thus far has been uniformly negative and that the manufacturers lie like a rug when it comes to this. So for me I stick to genuinely fanless cards. That being said, if you show me a card (like the 5450) that has LESS power draw than the tried-and-true 4550 then I don't see how that's not a winner. AVOID NON-HDMI CARDS LIKE THE PLAGUE, even if you don't currently have an HDMI monitor a) you will eventually and b) a non-HDMI card may befuddle Windows 7's HDCP scheme including .wtv playback (and possibly even ALL .263 playback, you Brits and Irishmen whose ordinary TV may rely on it) and possibly even streaming protected video e.g. Netflix. Not saying it would, just that it's yet another layer of complication if your card does not have that HDMI port on it.

Regarding RAM drives, we've talked this through endlessly, but when the rubber hits the road: has anybody here actually set up a working RAM drive on an XL? I know perfecty well that it SHOULD work but the XL is just such a quirky animal that I wonder if anyone has actually done it.

Regarding microstutter: Remember how earlier versions of Windows would default to 800x600 if anything out of the ordinary happened? Well, has anybody besides me noticed that Windows 7 seems to want to change to 24Hz without warning? Starting Total Media? 24 Hz. Switching between HDMI and DVI (using Windows + P)? 24 Hz. Instant microstutter. I cannot find a way of simply eliminating 24Hz as an option Windows 7 is permitted to use - there is no situation I would ever want to operate at that refresh rate - but the search continues.

Oh, and at the final cost of over 300 lost movies, I finally activated Windows 7, made my reference backup, and am reformatting my old SSD to use in a non-XL3 machine. Which reminds me, have you motherboard bandits (I'm looking at you, Ren) confirmed that changing the motherboard and therefore the BIOS, on which the All-in-Wonder card bases its functionality (not sure about the HomeRun etc) will definitely NOT cause your tuner to stop working?

HERE'S A GREAT TIP! (U.S. only)

When I installed Windows 7, I was asked for my DCT activation code. Way way back in the beginning of this thread I explained that even when upgrading from Vista Home to Vista Ultimate via the ever-present "Upgrade Anywhere" feature, my DCT bombed out by rejecting the Sony-supplied activation code, and my tuner stopped working 30 days later. Well, the same thing happened when I installed Windows 7 from scratch...and my existing Tuner Activation code did not work.

Did anyone else have this issue? What did you do about it?

Anyway, I found that there is a secret "skeleton code" that supposedly works for ANY ATI tuner - and at least for me, it did!

I cannot take credit for this, but I am also not going to link to or cite where I got this info from in case AMD/ATI decide they don't like this information being pubic for whatever reason. I therefore recommend that you copy this information right now. The universal DCT activation code is:

263DJ-2Y9YT-6X9G6-W28DB-697TF

Actually, perhaps my cloak-and-dagger approach is unwarranted; I just googled that string and found a number of sites referencing it. Good tip anyhow!

Now the challenge is to transfer VHS tape from a VCR. Problem isthere are only scart sockets on the VCR. I'm nearly certain I have a scart to s-video adapter somewhere.

REPLY: Francis, you're looking at the wrong HD6600 series card. The HD6600 series card we've been discussing is the newest SAPPHIRE 100326LP Radeon HD6670 1GB 128-bit, GDDR5, PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready, Low Profile Video Card.
It is single-slot and ducted-fan cooled (it pulls 'directed' cooling air across the heat-sink through a duct cowling, to reduce fan turbulance noise). User reviews on the web say that it's virtually silent.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...n=&lid=1&leg=0
These cards have so far been listed as low as $79 (US) after rebate in the past two months.

And there's also the fin & tube radiator passively cooled SAPPHIRE Ultimate HD 6570 1GB DDR3 which 'relobe' is running in his XL302 with a low-profile bracket, which he just reminded us fits perfectly (despite appearances in the photos): http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...n=&lid=1&leg=0

Both cards, the DDR3 HD6570 and the GDDR5 HD6670, have 480 stream processors. 480 vs. only 80 stream processors in the HD5450 card is hard to ignore, unless I'm missing something about the elements of what yields smooth video/graphics rendering?

But I do take Jeff's point (especially given that both you and I Jeff are both using SSD (silent) boot drives and Samsung SpinPoint (nearly silent) storage drives. Silence is real easy to get used to!
Noise concern would tilt one toward the passively cooled HD6570. For me, given the reviews noting that the HD6670 is 'virtually silent', I like the greater effective memory speed of the HD6670 with GDDR5. And I also like the fact that the HD6670 GDDR5 seems to be cheaper!

So Jeff, am I correct from reading your comments that it is primarily noise concern that would be the greater argument for you to choose the HD5450 DDR3 over the HD6670 GDDR5 card?

Cheers!
Robert.

>it is primarily noise concern that would be the greater argument for you to choose the HD5450 DDR3 over the HD6670 GDDR5 card?

Well, that plus the fact that there's enough cumulative experience posted here now to consider the 5450 in the "tried and true" category. Since without a new motherboard (yeah I know, I know) there are other bottlenecks in the XLX, trying to convert an XL into some sort of speed demon might not be the best bang for the buckeuropound. I was more interested in what other funky things the 66XX might do that, rather than outright speed, might better support the XL's primary multimedia mission - being able to select one big monitor across multiple screens being one example. Otherwise, I am not sure what exactly 1 gig or more of RAM and a theoretical ten-fold speed increase really provides you.

I actually can hear the XL3's power supply fan quite clearly - I have a very quiet house in a very quiet neighborhood and, as Ren says, silent SSDs and very quiet media drives that are either spun down when not actually recording/playing or off in the basement at the end of a long eSATA cable. Silence is golden - except when my audio drivers get confused while I'm trying to watch a movie!

Cheers!
Robert

REPLY: Well, once again Jeff you make cogent and reasonable arguments (sheesh, I really hate that in a person). Must be the engineer in you? As for me, my architect (aka: artistic dreamer) sensibility suggests an alternative (outside of the box) scenario for my decision. Since Francis and Oliver are about to try the new DDR3 version of the HD5450 card, and Paul ('paden') is already using the HD6570 1GB w/fan, and 'relobe' is using the HD6570 Ultimate with passive cooling ... we have or soon will have ample feedback on all of those. So, ... I guess we're full circle on this discussion, just waiting for me to break new trail and try the HD6670 GDDR5 in my XL2 (and yes, if my system still works and doesn't immolate both itself and me, ... I'll post my feedback).

In case I have confused, I have been only talking about video/graphics card options for our factory XL2, XL3, XL301 & 302 systems. The hair-brained "XL4" project will not need a video/graphics card The ASUS motherboard architecture, w/ integrated graphics, i7 processor and 16GB DDR3 RAM should take care of the video/graphics task in spades (probably even handle my most intensive "Windows Solitaire Xtreme gaming"! )

Cheers!
Robert.



PS. Could one of you whom already has the cover off of your XL3, XL301 or XL302 do me a big favor. Could one of you please write down and post here in the thread the Sony P/N and the Sony/ASUS motherboard model numbers?
[The XL1 and XL2 systems motherboard is: Sony P/N 1 789 455 11
The Sony/ASUStek model number is: P5LP-MB Rev.2.01]

it si the CPU i am talking of when i say i have upgraded to a X6800..
I am running a saphire 6570 1gb.. started with the 2gb but the stutter wasn't a micro stutter but a major stutter. the intervals between the stutter was much longer but the stutter was more a freeze frame than a stutter
But having installed this faster CPU it seems to have cleared it up(at the moment) so lets hope hey,just need to watch a dozen more films to be 100% sure

I also live out in the country in an old farm house and was concerned with the noise,as you say now i have SSD i can hear the fan for the PSU but will say i truly can not hear the fan for the 6570 at all unless the lid is off and i boost fan up over 65%.. but whilst on auto fan speed i have never seen it run at over 15% and running at 43 deg celcius..

OK, that makes sense

REPLY: Sounds like some of you guys need a good blow job. The PSU often gets overlooked for housekeeping when we are tinkering inside our systems, because it's not easy to get to. But a good compressed air dusting can work wonders reducing the air turbulence noise of a filthy, dust-bunny laden and crud-filled PSU.

Cheers!
Robert.