Sony VGX-XL3 - Page 16

Ok so last night im going thru my usual nightly routine,trying to prevent my XL3 from giving me a "tuner not found" message next morning. I went to my control panel>add remove programs and noticed that the ATI software was showing up twice. So i uninstalled both ATI programs and reinstalled and now i have the program showing up once. This morning i turned on my TV, no blank picture but i get a "restricted content" message and no channels. After i reboot,i get the channels back and notice a slight stutter in the picture,especially when i turn up or down the volume. This is so frustrating. Im going to give it another try by reinstalling all the updates and see if it works. If not, im going back to component or calling Sony.

SO I got the new OCUR product key. When I entered the key via the Vista Media Center digital cable activation page it says the key is not valid and when entered via "Change product key" in computer properties, it displays the following error;

"The product key you have entered will not work with this edition of Windows Vista. You must either run Windows Vista setup or enter a Windows Vista Home Premium product key."

I don't get it, I just sent the Microsoft engineering guy the errors and the system support page link so perhaps he can look into a solution. Seems like an imminent full system recovery lurking around the corner...geez.




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I hear ya! It's a cornucopia of problems!

gmann11204, what antivirus software do you have installed on your system (see; http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/3/2...wThread.aspx)? Did you do the full system recovery you planned on yesterday yet?






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Tech, please provide more details, many of us have wound up being transferred to India. I got a guy in Redmon who knew exactly what I was talking about but he then sent me to India anyway. At a minimum, what's the e-mail return address, or what did you ask for to get to this department, or for that matter which of the thousands of phone numbers did you start with?

This information could be the fix for people who want to upgrade to Ultimate but risk losing digital cable because their DCT product code becomes invalid. Good work!

Tech,

I dont have any Antivirun program installed. I removed the entire Norton program. I have not done the full recovery yet. I will try it this weekend.

rjeffb, he said not to give direct contact info out as each persons issue will have to go to frontline support first. Actually below is his response when I inquired;

I am researching the issue right now with some other members of my team. I do ask that you NOT share my direct contact information with anyone else. The course of action for these customers will be to contact frontline support with their issues and open a new case. At that time they will received the contact information from the Support Engineer that owns their specific case.



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Fair enough - then how did you initiate the call? One would think that no matter how you contact MS tech support you'd wind up at the right final destination, but several of us have proof that's not so. So: please walk thru how you actually found somebody who knew what you were talking about and at least claimed to be able to help, so others may follow in your wise footsteps.

January 26, 2008

By George...I think I got it. Went to turn on the Panny, switched to HDMI and
much to my surprise the Panny had a video signal. It fools you at first as I get a blank screen when I first turn it on. About 10 seconds later the video shows up. All is well after that. So far So Good.

On another note gmann said:"After i reboot,i get the channels back and notice a slight stutter in the picture,especially when i turn up or down the volume." Well, I'm getting something different but very similar to this.

I noticed that if I'm playing music and I use the visualization option I get this "Grrr noise" in the audio. Turn off the visualization and it goes away. Hmmm...One problem fixed only to create another.

Side Bar:

Wanna have some fun with media center? Record Two and a Half Men. At The end of the show freeze frame Chuck Lorres Card. Just about on every show he has some pretty amusing anecdotes in there.

>I noticed that if I'm playing music and I use the visualization option I get this "Grrr noise" in the audio. Turn off the visualization and it goes away. Hmmm...One problem fixed only to create another.


I get that sound whenever I pause TV, but only on the XL3. I have an identical Logitech surround system hooked up to the XBox, also through SPDIF, and it doesn't occur there. Also, I can't swear to this but I'm pretty sure the system didn't do that when I first bought it, so it must be some audio driver that has been installed since. It's not background noise; you can turn the volume as low as you want while playing something and it's not there, but the moment the audio signal stops it appears. It's actually kinda funny, it sounds like the computer is hungry.

If you ask me, I think the problem stems from the fact that the HDMI on the nvidia card card is connected to the sound board or module. Doing a visualization "Overloads" the Video board and causes this weird noise. Funny thing though, if I play a slide show during the playback of music it doesn't happen.

If that's true then the next time I get it, I should be able to experimentally eliminate that growling sound - or at least affect it - by changing my video display (image, resolution, unplugging HDMI, or something). I *think* it has happened when stopping a video and returning to the Media Center main screen, which of course does have a type of slow visualization going on. I'll try it and report back.

Another update...

After re-building from factory Install again last week the system (XL302) seemed very unstable (Wireless Card dropping offline amongst other things), so I thought I would try upgrading to Ultimate again. Upgrade went OK, system seemed much more stable - BUT I then discovered that I had lost Blu Ray support again. My suspicion is that I would need to to a factory install, upgrade to Ultimate (before allowing updates to occur - both Sony and Vista), then apply the updates. However, I haven't tested this theory nor am likely to (for a while at least - I think the wife is getting a little frustrated at being forced to watch the TV in the kitchen whilst I continually re-build!)

So, back to a factory install on Saturday. System stable again - but, I am back to the loosing the TV/HDMI connection after a period of "Sleep".

After techieg's suggestion that he had found Nvidia 163.75 good (I too have had severe problems with 169.25 - it knackered my HDMI, certainly at 1080i anyway - I haven't tried at 1080p) I thought I would give it a go. However, I was a little uncertain about using the US driver, as opposed to the one from the UK site. However, it seems there is an equivalent driver on the UK site: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/winvista_x86_163.75.html, so I think I will give it a go.

Techieg, when installing this driver do you (as is always suggested) deliberately remove and delete the old driver or do you just install the new one?

Thanks, Jim

P.S. techieg - how did you manage to find the old drivers in the first place? On the normal web site there is no indication that the old drivers are available so a great bit of detective work!

P.S. I have just read the Release notes for 163.75 and under the fixed issues section it states:

The display is corrupt or there is no display upon resume from sleep mode.
[296199/326914]
This issue is system and monitor specific, and currently affects only a minority of systems. System BIOS updates can correct this issue. Please contact your motherboard or system manufacturer for the latest system BIOS.

and though not specifically identifioed as issues for the 7600GT it also states:

GeForce 7800 GTX: There is no output on the HDTV. [296699]
GeForce 7300 GT: The CRT goes out of sync after resuming from hibernate in Clone
mode (HDTV component+CRT). [285859]

Interesting I thought. I'll let you know how my test of this release works!

I have been kinda busy but I will provide the number as soon as I can backtrack to it shortly.

JST200, you may want to look at the instructions for post system recovery setup at (my fifth post); http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=vgx-xl3

Yes, I do a lot of work related tech research more so when its especially for my tech toys.




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Okay, the number I called Microsoft on is 1-800-936-5700 option 0 (when you call the toll free number it will say fee-based support, pushing 0 gets you to a rep who you can talk through your issues and get transfered to where you need to be). Just make sure you stress that you are not looking for "support" but a new Digital Cable Support Product Key and that you can apply it yourself.

So, on my quest for the "Super Duper XL3 Plus", I moved the current OCUR tuner motherboard USB connection from USB3 to USB5 which is directly under the tuner, this was successful. Now USB3 is vacant and in a more suitable position for an extra tuner. Since it was impossible for me to find a 4-pin to 4-Pin y-adapter to split the OCUR tuner power source for two OCUR tuners, I successfully "manufactured" my own which connects to the power source for the current OCUR tuner on one end and splits into two power connections at the other end for two OCUR tuners. Tests on both connections worked flawlessly, an image is available at the attachments below (it is currently installed on the current OCUR tuner but one connector is currently vacant, anxiously awaiting the additional OCUR tuner, and yes, I sanded and finished the wood floors myself). Note: Even though the connectors each have four pins, only 3pins/wires are actually used per connector.

Next, I ordered a 1GB RAM, which I should receive soon. I have also ordered the "US TUNER USB HARNESS" (part number 196523011), which I was told by the Sony Parts rep that it is the wire that connects from the OCUR tuner to the USB connection on the motherboard. This is the only other part left for me to get...I will have to receive it first to confirm that it is the right part before I proceed to ordering the additional OCUR tuner since everything else is set and good to go.

Already got 300 CDs into the media library and still got a box of CDs to do.

Anyone seen this; http://www.alienware.com/product_det...w.aspx#pdp-nav (I just wish it had dual cablecard slots)?



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Hey guys,
I just recently discovered this thread and WoW....you guys did so much research and never gave up on your VAIOs..... keep on going, trying to beef up your system and make it do what it intended to do originally. Techieg, you remind me so much of myself in terms of trying to squeeze more power and efficiency out of your VAIO XL3. Your experiences brought back memories back when VAIOs had analog TV Tuners and Giga Pocket software and I was in the midst of helping folks at VAIO Village site to figure out their problems...I had to experiment with getting TV Tuners from Sony Parts center and tried to keep my VAIOs (I have several models MXS20, W20, V520G, VA10G and XL2) up to date as they cranked out those new models every 3 months. A few threads ago you mentioned about Sony parts pricing.... let me tell ya....I have dealt and bought a number of parts for Sony products I own and their pricing never ceased to amaze me....it's like someone there said "OK....let's charge $$$$ for this board and this much for that" as logically it does not make any sense as you mentioned before. I remember I needed to get a simple screw and Sony parts quoted me a whopping $27.96 for just one little screw, that anyone can pick it up from a hardware store for 0.003 cents....
Anyways, I wanted to suggest you guys since you mess so much with your VAIOs to get a Service Manual for your model, that way you get all the schematics (work flow on disassembling and installing hardware, etc), exploded views and all parts and their corresponding numbers. You can purchase one at Sony Parts Center or sometimes buy it from eBay sellers who specialize in selling those.
Keep us updated on your dual OCUR tuner adventure (I still can't believe you pulled the trigger and spent almost a grand on that piece of hardware).
I just wish Sony released a VAIO X here in the US that was released a few years ago in Japan that had 7 tuners built-in....just imagine this power house with nowaday specs.......
L8er!
Stan

vaiofreak, Considering that I only paid a total of $1850 for my XL3 (thanx to eBay, another brand new one just ended for about $1900 and one is currently going for $2000; item # 230216625267) compared to about $3300 that it goes for, I can't feel too bad beefing it up with some extra dough to get it where I want it to be.

The XL3 manual on the Sony website is incomplete, they deliberately removed chapter 3 which deals with modifying your system, who needs it anyway, its no different from a regular PC on the inside with a tuner, the only the difference being the cablelabs BIOS to watch out for when making changes. Worst scenario you send it in for them to re-flash it, so modifying it should not be an issue for anyone, plus there is this thread for people to read and know the ins and outs of the system.

Yup, Sony parts pricing are just senselessly expensive and they deliberately try not to make any info on the parts available to the public at all except their in-house part numbers so that you cannot search for and buy similar parts cheaper elsewhere. And when speaking with their parts reps they tell you they can't give you the part number or else you will have to pay a parts research fee (wow). They don't know that there is a way to get those part numbers on their website even though they are just in-house part numbers. I have and am still trying to "infiltrate" other OEMs such as Dell and HP to see if they will sell the tuner at a much cheaper price than Sony does.




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Better yet...Has anyone seen this? https://www.s1digital.com/ProductDet...ctCode=MCPETGB

I was forewarned about the vaio. Now I know better. Vaio xl3 meet Ebay.

DenCollins, I won't say the XL3 has issues, its just a matter of end user abilities neither is it a Vista issues but a Cablelabs DRM issue. Outside the digital functionality of the system everything works fine as a PC should. So far I don't have any issues with mine besides the OEM Cablelabs SMBIOS DRM issue I had. I know for a fact that any media center PC out there will have the same set of issues as long as they implement the same Cablelab DRM specs and implementation, its generally not for the faint of heart. The same issues the XL3 has/had is the same the Dell XPS 410/420 and the HP 8100y has/had and have been dealing with so its all across the board and nothing should make anyone think "VAIO XL3" is the problem, and these are the OEMs that you can rely on to have Nvidia, ATI or other system parts manufacturer (or their in-house OEM developers) whip up updates & patches, and go to any length, etc to resolve any issues affecting their users' systems. I thought you guys read issues Dell users are/were also having as the XL3 users are; http://www.dellcommunity.com/support...cending&page=9, http://www.dellcommunity.com/support...ending&page=12, they too may as well say, oh its the Dell 410/420 issues I was forewarned about and move to the XL3 or HP 8100y only to find the same issues. Smaller OEMs like S1Digital and Niveus surely have the same issues but are less able to help you, instead they provide links to TheGreenButton, AVSForums, and Microsoft Media Center pages while you can only submit a ticket and wait endlessly as they do the same online research you are doing and probably posting to the same forums (and you may even be answering their questions on the forums too). When you think about the common factor; Cablelabs SMBIOS DRM issues. If anyone thinks they will have it easy or easier with other brands of media center with OCUR/cablelabs its time to think again, it just does not yet work as smooth as your regular provider STB that sits there without it bothering you or vice versa, also being that it is pretty new and in its infancy, several years and improvements from now will produce more stable media center systems that any family (and not just tech junkies) can more easily purchase and use.

The S1Digital media center looks good for the price with dual OCUR tuners (based on my configuration; Black, Ultimate, Quad Core CPU, Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive, and WiFi Card, did not upgrade the HDD or HDMI cable since I can put my current ones in there...and still comes in at $2499.00). Not bad at all. But S1DIgital's support page is not as intuitive as Sony's...no updates or original software downloads, extensive FAQs, robust support you can "always" reach, and no way you can really help yourself, which makes you helpless in the event of issues you may be having because all you can do is contact them or submit a ticket and just wait. While you can do this with OEMs like Sony, Dell, and HP, you can also use good support resources on their websites. This is where the difference also lies in dealing with an OEM with adequate resources to satisfy issues and one that may not be able to. I need to see the forums for OEMs like S1Digital and Niveus to read about the issues their users are having and how they may be feeling more helpless for the lack of a good OEM support page. This is not to say don't purchase S1Digital, Niveus, etc media center systems or that they are not good, all I am saying is don't expect anything less than is already known issues (and perhaps to expect less in support options).


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techieg,

Setting aside the problems with the tuner/firmware upgrades and etc. My biggest gripe with this unit is the video card. Sony integrated the audio into this card so it could run through the HDMI interface. I beginning to think that this was a big mistake. If you look at Nvidia's site you won't find a driver that specifically supports the 7600GTL. You might find drivers for a 7600GT But nothing what so ever for 7600GTL. Sony on the other hand doesn't upgrade their driver packages, let alone firmware on a timely basis. When I first got this machine, I upgraded my tuners firmware LONG before that update was posted on Sony's Site. Now, you mentioned that this rig was not "For the faint at heart" I understand that. I knew i was going to encounter a few problems, but nothing as consistent and reoccurring as this. It's not like I'm a novice or anything. I started this "Hobby" with WMC 2004 and a Dell Dimension 4100. I went on to build a few others later. The only reason I jumped onto the Vaio bandwagon is because I wanted Cablecard
capability. Looking back, I should have researched my choices more wisely.

DenCollins, if I may ask, if given the option which system would you have gone for if not the XL3?

I thought your audio/video issues were resolved per your previous post about installing the Nvidia 163.75 driver. Sony has no choice but to incorporate audio and video into the HDMI video card because that is the HDMI standard, otherwise it is not HDMI because the HDMI is an open standard (non-proprietary standard) that dictates that "it carries both audio and video" in one cable/connector, this means that ay OEM can use it in their systems but they must channel audio and video through it as specified in the HDMI open-standard specifications which is certainly tied into its original patents (so, again, its not a SOny issue or fault). This is where everything is going since it is not only used to more easily provide HD content but also is easier for regular consumers to deal with since all they need is to connect a single cable for both audio and video unlike the more confusing component standard with several connectors even though they may be color coded. The XL3 also provided the option to do audio separately via S/PDIF and RCA/component audio outs, have you tried them? This is a big step for PCs considering the fact that other OEMs for the most part have not really entered HDMI instead they do DVI-D and that standard does not carry audio at all and some implementations may not guarantee HD1080 of any kind, you then only have the option to use their RCA /component audio out ports and S/PDIF if you are lucky (while the XL3 gives you more options). So in other words the XL3 has much more audio options; HDMI, S/PDIF, and RCA/component audio out, which in my opinion is more to choose from than any other out there. What you need to do is choose whichever audio out is best for you and disable the other one so that it only goes through your selected choice. You really may not have to disable any one audio output source for the other because if you look in the audio properties you will see that by default all audio ports are in "Working" mode at the same time, so if you plug your RCA/component audio out into your TV or A/V system you should have no problem with audio. I only use HDMI for both audio and video without a single issue.

I started hobbying and tinkering way before high school only to find out shortly after that I could have a career in IT and A/V components, I thought ...sweet, and went into it, so research and problem resolution is my life and I am glad it helps in the usage of my tech stuff and being able to provide insights for others. I had researched all available options before settling for the XL3 as the best in every area when I bought it (form factor, internal parts implementation, support, etc, even its price was subject to research...LO really L). I just think it might be even better if the XL3 component out provided HD 1080p because my Sony 46XBR4 TV component inputs do.

So what system would have been your choice instead of the XL3 (so we can see the array of pros and cons that system may have compared with the XL3)?



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Just to let you know that manual that you mention is not the same one I was talking about which is called Service Manual, SMs are not usually available to general public as it lists all the parts numbers (that Sony Parts wants a fee for) and schematics. I have one for XL2 that I bought, so if you wanna see what I am talking about PM me.
You sure did get a great deal on your XL3! I hate to see how prices go down on eBay on things like that, as in prolly in a year you will be able to pick one those Digital Living systems for less than a grand (hey for parts!).
Stan

techieg,

If I had to do it all over again, I think I would of opted for an SDigital. Why? Separate Video and Sound Cards. Dual Tuners. Windows Ultimate. The funny thing is, When I was considering this purchase I chose looks over functionality. (Well, sort of.) The thing that put me off about the Sdigital was the fact that it had all of those fans on the back of the case. The last WMC I built had a Silvertone Case and even with the so-called "Silent Power Supply" let me tell you it sounded like a jet. That bugged the heck out me.

But...on the other hand I had very few problems with it. I was recording HD content via my firewire ports with tim moores firestb until comast decided to update the firmware on my motorola dct6200 box. SD recordings just don't look to good on a 50" Plasma.
So with that I decided to pull the trigger and buy the Sony. But I have to tell you...This Vaio has been a thorn in my side from day one.

As for the 168.73 driver...it worked for about 4-5 days. Then out of the blue the sound stops working. So I update the sigma tel drivers..it works. Turn off the Panny..and it's back to square one. No video signal!

In conclusion...I can't help but think if the video and sound board were two separate components I wouldn't be having all of these problems. But then, I could always just switch back to component video and do away with the HDMI altogether. But by doing so..."I've lost the fight".

Hi all
Just like to say thanks for all the time spent posting information on this forum.
I have just purchased a XL302 and have read nearly every post to see what has to modified to these machines to get them running correctly.
Fingers crossed mine is OK?
will post the results once all set up.

Regards James

The S1Digital was the brand I was trying to remember in post 326, they sold either rebranded or knockoffs of the Niveus (identical cabinets). The Alienware referenced here is cheap because it apparently doesn't do digital cable (check that cutsheet carefully...they never mention CableCard or digital cable, only digital TV = HD ASTC).

I disagree with Tech on one point: Niveus is famous for incredible, concierge-style service. I doubt their customers have nearly as many problems the moment they turn on their machines because, relying on a much smaller base of much more discerning clients, they couldn't afford otherwise. Niveus didn't require its customers to figure out how to do 1080p, their machine did it out of the box.

S1 I have no knowledge of, but I think if I had to do it over now I would give them a serious look. After all, HushPC, a company virtually unknown in the U.S., has been the best PC I have ever owned; not because of its incredible web site, because it was a very well-made, thoroughly tested, and thought-through design.

S1Digital is a completely independent company from Niveus and don't share or rebrand anything. Their products are not rebranded or knockoffs. Niveus does their own custom cases (no fans, passive cooling for everything), while S1Digital uses OEM cases from the major HTPC case makers.

Chris

rjeffb and ChrisL01, s1Digital, Niveus, etc all use media center chassis from the same pool of manufacturers and then slap on their own logos (you and I can do it too), here are a few of them; http://www.avadirect.com/Parts/Compu...Center_Chassis and http://www.antec.com/us/pro_en_Veris.php, this usually is a tower PC with a front cover that makes it look sideways similar to an A/V component. Sony is the only one I know that custom-builds their own media center chassis (and now perhaps Alienware too with their Hangar18 system), Dell and HP still use their tower form factor which I cannot even dream of fitting into my living aesthetics at all, makes me wonder how people do it.

rjeff, you mentioned 1080p on Niveus, Sony may have a different OEM level agreement than Niveus does hence they may not be allowed to to hack your registry in order to give you and I 1080p in Vista Home Premium because I am quite sure they would love to boast HD 1080p capabilities off the bat on the XL3 with a huge sticker. I am quite sure Niveus got the hack from forums anyway. We all tend to look at things at face value when there is certainly more then meets the eye behind the scenes workings we may not understand. Yous should be used to price drops on tech stuff by now, I usually don;t get them until much later even though I do feel like getting them on release date...I just gotta save some dough.

vaiofreak, ok I understand what manual you mean and here is one for the XL3 for $25.

DenCollins, so far Sony is the only one with one os the most quiet media centers because they implement liquid-cooled system in it instead of fans. Everything else we have been discussing so far all have noisy fans in them except the XL3. And having another system or building yours still does not guarantee that you will get the best HDMI audio/video output as others in ohter forums have experienced themselves (take this situation for example; http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...=en-us&m=1&p=1). Bottomline is that HDMI in PCs are still are little troublesome because they have inconsistent issues hence making it hard to troubleshoot since the issues are not uniformly replicated across the board with all users' systems. As for your issue, you can do HDMI video and component or S/PDIF audio. Did you say you have it connected straight to the TV or via an A/V component?




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I'm not sure if you have ever seen a Niveus PC, but can you point out where I can buy one of their passively cooled cases?
http://niveusmedia.com/products/mediacenters.htm

Nivues has some cool, it's not some regular Silverstone or Antec case. As I said, S1Digital just uses standard cases. Alienware's Hanger 18 is based off of a standard case/platform too, I just can't remember it off the top of my head. Large OEMs like HP have already been down the custom HTPC market and realized the mass market doesn't want a PC in their living room.


1080p output can be done without "hacks" on most hardware, including Nivues. When the OS and driver install are done right, it's very easy to get 1080p out of a PC.

Chris