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Minimalist Approach to Screen Wall - Page 8

post #211 of 382
I love this thread!!!!
post #212 of 382
Is there any reason to have the vertical posts the same distance as the width of the screen? Is it just to avoid blocking the speakers or does the screen get attached to these?
post #213 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Is there any reason to have the vertical posts the same distance as the width of the screen? Is it just to avoid blocking the speakers or does the screen get attached to these?

There is. Assuming you are using friction fit (Which is how we did it), you usually hang the screen from the horizontal bar. From there is just hangs, but it will swing and doesn't literally hang in a perfect up and down position since the majority of the weight is below the hanging point. Thus it has a tendency to hang slightly inverted inwards. The horizontal bars allow for the side/vertical portions of the frame to rest on and make the entire frame flush.

Also, you usually want to make the vertical beams only cover half of the vertical edges of the frame. This allows half of the vertical beams to be available for the side panels to have something to push against. Think of how all of the extra panels will connect... what will they connect to? In a way it's a way to have borders for all 4 additional panels around the screen to have edges to rest against.
post #214 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

There is. Assuming you are using friction fit (Which is how we did it), you usually hang the screen from the horizontal bar. From there is just hangs, but it will swing and doesn't literally hang in a perfect up and down position since the majority of the weight is below the hanging point. Thus it has a tendency to hang slightly inverted inwards. The horizontal bars allow for the side/vertical portions of the frame to rest on and make the entire frame flush.
Friction fitting aside, if I built the vertical posts closer to the middle (actually about 4-5 feet between them) the screen could still be attached to prevent the inward inversion. My last theater actually had those "z" cleats at the top and bottom to keep the screen attached.

Basically, I'm trying to avoid building a 130" cross-beam, , if possible.
post #215 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

I'm assuming since we are talking about black velvet, you are referring to panels on your screen wall and not panels covering side or rear surrounds. Is that correct? .

Yes.. I am talking about for the fabric that will be on the screen wall it self. Either way it seems like not a good idea. I will have to research the GOM. Thanks for the info!
post #216 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by AT1AW View Post

Yes.. I am talking about for the fabric that will be on the screen wall it self. Either way it seems like not a good idea. I will have to research the GOM. Thanks for the info!

Any fabric is fine in front of subwoofers - but not in front of full range speakers, where you'll want something acoustically transparent. Maybe that was was already clear, but just in case.
post #217 of 382
I looked high and low through these forums to find a black material that wasn't GOM to use around my Seymour XD screen for my false wall. I don't recall the product, but it was found at a local fabric store. It is super thin and airy. Looks like velvet of sorts on the outside, but I wasn't fully convinced until I had a local guy with some nice AV monitoring and calibration equipment do a favor and just measure the difference of sound with a full range speaker with and without the fabric in front of it. His equipment is pretty high quality, and it DID detect differences, but very minimally. He was impressed that it did so well for a cheaper material. I didn' think it was THAT cheap until I used a Jo Ann Fabrics 50% off coupon, then it got "cheap".

I really wish I remember what the stuff was. It has some stretch to it, but not like spandex (which wouldn't be as transparent either). All I had was the "blow test" where you see how easily air blows through it. It was easier to blow through than the Seymour screen.

I did my own A/B test and made up a quick panel of the stuff that was just larger than one of my tower speakers. Without looking (I just covered my eyes) I tried to hear differences using both test tones, dialog, music, and movie samples. I could not hear a noticeable difference. She was annoyed with my testing after about 15 minutes.

Just tossing that out there that there are other products, BUT keep in mind that they aren't always flame resistant, etc. That is important too. Not sure how anything will ever start on fire with my screen wall. I guess that the amp in one of the subs could catch fire some day, but otherwise there are no lights, and just audio signal over audio wires near it. The wall is a couple of feet from any electrical outlet, etc.

Your setups may be different and then I would definately look at something flame resistant.
post #218 of 382
Can you think of any other details? Where it was in the store? What it was buy? Price? Anything?
post #219 of 382
I would basically be starting my search of these forums again. Search for JoAnn Fabrics or Hancock Fabrics here at AVS and you will get some results.

Some people used "Stretch Velvet" or "Jet Set" but I can't recall the differences or if they were even what I used in the end. I don't have the receipt any longer, so I can't find any details.

Mine was slightly velvet looking on the outside, and had some stretch, but I don't *think* that I used the "Stretch Velvet" because people said that it didn't retain its shape. Maybe I did and just don't remember it.
post #220 of 382
GOM really isn't very AT, measuring ~4dB down in the top octave. If you like its matte look, need a specific color, or are using it for treatments like panels, then it's fine stuff. But if you want black AT material, I'd recommend a speaker grill material. Parts Express has economy and a thicker "premium" materials pretty cheap. We keep both on hand for side projects. I generally think that looks better on a false wall than our meshy black backing material, which while being very acoustically transparent has a bit more sheen and less of a fabric look (there are reasons those two are strongly related).

Cheers,
Chris
post #221 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Friction fitting aside, if I built the vertical posts closer to the middle (actually about 4-5 feet between them) the screen could still be attached to prevent the inward inversion. My last theater actually had those "z" cleats at the top and bottom to keep the screen attached.
Basically, I'm trying to avoid building a 130" cross-beam, , if possible.
Anyone else have thoughts on this? Looking to keep the cross-brace to a minimum by having the "goal-posts" maybe 6-8 feet apart. Would build additional "goal-posts" at sides for friction fitting panels around the screen.
post #222 of 382
Thread Starter 
I don't see any issue with moving the uprights together. For my first screen a Stewart Firehawk that is pretty much what I had



Now that I look at the picture I didn't even have any crossbars. The Stewart was hung using the keyhole system on 4 screw heads in the uprights. I doubled up the uprights on the outside, one for the screen and one for the side screen wall panels.
The structure was two rectangular frames you just can't see the top or bottom plates, Kept them in place with a few screws into the stage and Ceiling drywall, no I didn't try to hit a stud, channel or joist.
post #223 of 382
When measuring for the masking/side panels, how much room are you leaving for the fabric to be wrapped around allowing a good friction fit? I'm currently thinking 1/16", so shorting every panel an 1/8" in each direction?
post #224 of 382
Thread Starter 
I usually go for 1/8 instead of 1/16. Along one dimension there will be 3 layers of fabric for the corner fold.
post #225 of 382
Good call Big, thank you! I forgot about those pesky corners.
post #226 of 382
What about a false wall where the screen is still set back mounted on the actual wall? So false wall sets out about 14", enough to hide the fronts and subs. I'd put 2" OC703 along the back and stack wedges up top for bass traps in the corners. Seems like a doable thing, only thing I'm worried about is the cross section below the screen, make it just panels where a whippersnapper can come and attempt to sit on it or use plywood for that part. Not sure what effect plywood above a sub would have (if any). I think it's either this or just leave speakers out and about, room is not long enough to bring the screen out that far and tuck everything behind it.
post #227 of 382
Thread Starter 
Art, what you describe is similar to what BritinVA did in his space

http://www.avsforum.com/t/655800/britinva-construction-thread/240_40#post_7972682
post #228 of 382
Appreciate it, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm after. I"ll post the question there as well but what do you think he did for the part that tops off the bottom section (just below the screen)? Panels with nothing in them just like the fronts or something more solid? That's the part I'm worried about, I'd like that to be solid just so nobody sits on it and damages it but if solid does any harm to the sub that's underneath then I don't want that. Looked through the thread, didn't see how the panels were done.
Edited by ArthurVandelay - 1/19/13 at 12:34pm
post #229 of 382
I'm surprised no one has used steel studs for a minimalist screen wall. They are perfectly straight and super easy to use. Would require a little more framing than the goal post method but would probably be easy to mount the screen and you could mount the fabric panels with magnets.
post #230 of 382
Steel studs are light and easy to use and most importantly STRAIGHT like you mentioned, but they have a lot of twist to them until they get locked in and people are just scared of new materials that they aren't used to. I am sure that there are other reasons why people don't use them, but I would be interested in seeing someone give it a go with steel studs.
post #231 of 382
Thread Starter 
Hmmmm, Steel studs might work but when I've worked with steel studs in the past the screws holding the pieces together always sit a little proud of the surface, Not a problem when screwing up a bit piece of drywall, May be an issue hanging a screen frame, I do like the notion of the panels with magnets.
post #232 of 382
I'm in the process of framing my basement & theater room. Stage construction will begin probably tomorrow and I will be following the minimalist approach demonstrated by Big.

My question is this, How close (rather, how much can I be off) does the crossbar need to be with the top of the screen? The side posts seem easy enough to build, but i'm unsure where to install it. If the crossbar itself is 4" tall, is it reasonable to assume the top of the crossbar will be the top of the framed screen?

My next question, and perhaps it belongs in the JVC forum, but is the top of the projected image from a JVC projector parallel to the top of the lens?
post #233 of 382
Thread Starter 
Not sure how you can be framing the theater room and getting ready to build the stage. Best practices from a sound proofing perspective is to drywall the theater room first then build stages, risers, soffits and screen walls inside the drywall bunker.

Most (not all) screens attach with a french cleat bracket system. An angled bracket is screwed to the wall or crosspiece in this case, it has a lip that snags the screen frame usually an 1/8 inch from the top of the frame on the back. I like that bracket lip to be about an inch down from the top of the crosspiece. Which is about where the top of the screen frame will come to rest.

look up the online user manual for your planned projector and it will answer your question on the vertical offset requirements of that projector.
post #234 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

My next question, and perhaps it belongs in the JVC forum, but is the top of the projected image from a JVC projector parallel to the top of the lens?

If its one of the newer JVCs with lens memory (and you plan to use it for CIH), yes the lens should be no higher than the top of the screen; otherwise, it can be mounted higher than the top of the screen.
post #235 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Not sure how you can be framing the theater room and getting ready to build the stage. Best practices from a sound proofing perspective is to drywall the theater room first then build stages, risers, soffits and screen walls inside the drywall bunker.

Most (not all) screens attach with a french cleat bracket system. An angled bracket is screwed to the wall or crosspiece in this case, it has a lip that snags the screen frame usually an 1/8 inch from the top of the frame on the back. I like that bracket lip to be about an inch down from the top of the crosspiece. Which is about where the top of the screen frame will come to rest.

look up the online user manual for your planned projector and it will answer your question on the vertical offset requirements of that projector.

The walls of the theater have been framed and most of the remaining basement space that we are finishing has been framed. It's just the wife and I, no kids-- no plan for having kids. The only time the theater will be in use is when we are both in it watching a movie.. so the decision was made not to go "all out" on soundproofing techniques. My only concern with the stage at this point is making sure that it is capable of being removed in the unlikely event of us moving.

I think I got my answer in that the JVC has a 16" vertical offset. I'm going to shelf-mount so I won't need the horizontal shift so I think I'm set. My main concern with the crossbar was to not mount it too high or too low... but if I keep the crossbar at about the height of the projector, the vertical shift should be enough. My last projector for a Infocus IN76 without any lens-shift features, so this will be quite nice.
post #236 of 382
Thread Starter 
from what you said, drywall first, then build stage. If you move you take out the stage and the room is drywalled. I understand the concept that the only time the theater is in use she is in there with you. Trust me on this, as the years go by this will change.
post #237 of 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

from what you said, drywall first, then build stage. If you move you take out the stage and the room is drywalled. I understand the concept that the only time the theater is in use she is in there with you. Trust me on this, as the years go by this will change.

LOL I know the soundproofing gurus on this site are going to go into full-on judgement mode, but the initial (current) plan is to leave the space behind the screenwall unfinished. That is, there is no framing/drywall behing that area. Instead, I'm treating the area with 2" OC703 and foam acoustic panels.

I hear what you're saying and i've dated women where the rules changed midway through-- but, we simply do no fight and it is very VERY rare that we don't watch movies together... hell, she'll sit and watch me play xbox360 9 times out of 10. The only time we don't watch flicks together is if she has her sister over and they just use the plasma. I suppose there is the possibility that I would want to watch a movie in the basement while they're upstairs doing their thing... but that is a once a month maybe once every two months kind of thing. Her and I have had several conversations about whether or not to go all out on the soundproofing... and every time she's said its not worth it.
post #238 of 382
Thread Starter 
I would not advise leaving one wall without drywall. You said you might move and you should think about the resale value of the house. The concept of leaving a list of things you will do to put the house on the market is unrealistic because when the time comes you may be hard pressed to fine the time. Like a job transfer etc.

As for the significant other, Think she might get the flu and want to just sleep and you want to watch a movie?
post #239 of 382
Hi Big
Have followed your work for years on the forum. Am re-doing my 6 year old dedicated HT room, too many better ways from what I did years ago.

Love the color scheme in your theater, better yet my wife loves it, could you share your room colors for trim, below chair rail and above as well as ceiling? Thanks in advance
post #240 of 382
Thread Starter 
The walls are GOM FR701, Crystal Blue top, Baltic Blue bottom. The ceiling and trim were all painted Lowe's Drizzling Mist gray.

Snickers1 also used Baltic Blue in his theater and is worth a look

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406917/the-merrimont-trace-theater-has-begun/0_40

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