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New rebate

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
Ibiquity is offering a new rebate program to run from 4/29 to 7/3. They offer $40 off the cost of a receiver.
post #2 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picspop View Post

Ibiquity is offering a new rebate program to run from 4/29 to 7/3. They offer $40 off the cost of a receiver.

Damned them!!! They weren't supposed to say anything until Sunday!!!

If anyone wants a copy it will be available on our website on Monday.
post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 
Look at it this way, Master T. It gives us four days to shake the change out of the sofa in eager anticipation of the buying frenzy for the HDT-1. Does it give you enough time to build inventory?
post #4 of 37
I never sent in my $25 coupon for my JVC.
post #5 of 37
Well, looks like I'm gonna clean out the couch (An HDT-1 for $160, I can do that!)

Speaking of which... is it possible the 1x will be out before 7/4?
post #6 of 37
I HATE REBATES! Just tell me what the freakin' thing costs! Tech and consumer electronics companies have rebates on every freakin' thing because they know that because many will never bother to send in the rebate form, it's a way to "offer" savings, while often not actually GIVING them. IT SUCKS! We should yell LOUDLY..."JUST TELL US WHAT IT COSTS! GEEZ!"

My 2 cents worth...yours for free.
post #7 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Walker View Post

I HATE REBATES! Just tell me what the freakin' thing costs! Tech and consumer electronics companies have rebates on every freakin' thing because they know that because many will never bother to send in the rebate form, it's a way to "offer" savings, while often not actually GIVING them. IT SUCKS! We should yell LOUDLY..."JUST TELL US WHAT IT COSTS! GEEZ!"

My 2 cents worth...yours for free.

Well, I can't speak for other manufacturers, but we use the rebates to test what reaction we might expect if we lowered the price.

For example, we have an atomic (sets itself to atomic clock in boulder, colorado) that is mostly selling for $79. We want to see if reducing the price to $69 improves sales. If it does enough, we will permanently reduce the price.

Another advantage is to be able to get some form of demographic information.
post #8 of 37
Understand Master, I meant no disrespect to you or your company. My rant wasn't aimed at you, or even at Ibiquity. It was a general rant at ALL THE REBATES OUT THERE! Pick up a copy of the Best Buy, Stapes, or most any other circular which carries electronics and/or tech products. There's a rebate on most EVERYTHING. It's MADDENING for consumers.

I know your motives for using rebates are genuine. But manufacturers and retailers should know that the public has just about had it up to HERE with rebates on EVERY FREAKING THING! My wife gets angry every time she picks up a circular, and as with most families, she does most of the shopping. Between rebates and coupons, IT DRIVES HER NUTS! If we consumers don't yell ENOUGH once in a while, how are manufacturers and retailers to know how we feel?
post #9 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Walker View Post

Understand Master, I meant no disrespect to you or your company. My rant wasn't aimed at you, or even at Ibiquity. It was a general rant at ALL THE REBATES OUT THERE! Pick up a copy of the Best Buy, Stapes, or most any other circular which carries electronics and/or tech products. There's a rebate on most EVERYTHING. It's MADDENING for consumers.

I know your motives for using rebates are genuine. But manufacturers and retailers should know that the public has just about had it up to HERE with rebates on EVERY FREAKING THING! My wife gets angry every time she picks up a circular, and as with most families, she does most of the shopping. Between rebates and coupons, IT DRIVES HER NUTS! If we consumers don't yell ENOUGH once in a while, how are manufacturers and retailers to know how we feel?

First, I never took that you were pointing the curser at me or my company. I do agree with you but you want to know the number 1 reason rebates instead of discounts? The retailers!!

They think any other option is too much work, or that it would put undue pressure on them, something they can't accept.

Some day I will teach you how retail works, and I think the common consumer would gasp.

I will give you a sample here. When we sell a product to a retailer, we as the manufacturer have to pay a company (in most cases) to go to the store and make sure it is properly connected, displayed, and presentable for sale. If we reduce the price on an item, we the manufacturer often have to reimburse the retailer for all current inventory AND past inventory they sold within a 90 day period. When you go to Best Buy and say you found it somewhere cheaper, WE as the manufacturer are really the ones that have to pay Best Buy the difference.

We the manufacturer make the smallest amount of margin on the item. Typically retail makes 2 to 3 times the profit on a product we make. And we pay for the retailers advertising. If we want them to put our product in their weekly flyer we have to pay them anywhere from $1,000-$10,000 for it. Sales or no sales.

(Not defensively mind you) If you really want to blame someone make it the retailers.
post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Theseus View Post

Well, I can't speak for other manufacturers, but we use the rebates to test what reaction we might expect if we lowered the price.

For example, we have an atomic (sets itself to atomic clock in boulder, colorado) that is mostly selling for $79. We want to see if reducing the price to $69 improves sales. If it does enough, we will permanently reduce the price.

Another advantage is to be able to get some form of demographic information.

Thank you for your comments from a manufacturer's point of view. I agree with Mike Walker... Mail-in rebates disgust me, and they cause me to have a poorer opinion of the retail electronics business as a whole. I feel the whole rebate concept is a "shell game", intended entirely to "con" customers into thinking they are getting something at a low price, but knowing in advance that most people will forget to send in the rebate forms, or they will make a mistake or send the forms in too late, or whatever.

Why do I feel this way? Well, you brought up the one possible justification I could possibly think of, for wanting to "offer the best deal to customers who go to the trouble of sending their information to the manufacturer":

Quote:


Another advantage is to be able to get some form of demographic information.

And now, here is my complaint, about that very concept:

If a manufacturer really just wants feedback from their customers, then WHY are all of these rebates intentionally set up to use the most troublesome, archaic method of communication and redemption; that is, cutting out parts of boxes, filling out paper forms, addressing envelopes, attaching stamps, and going to mailboxes, for Heaven's sake... UNLESS they are specifically trying to minimize, not maximize, responses from customers???

It is blatantly obvious to me, and probably every other reasonable person on Earth who has had to deal with rebates, that if there was a goal to get customers to respond, and the manufacturers (or Ibiquity/the HD Radio industry in this case) were willing to pay to receive the responses, then they would simply ask customers to go to a Web site, enter their information and the serial number of the product (or some other number that was on a card inside the sealed package), and then they would send the rebate to the customer.

Master Theseus, I am not addressing these comments to you or your company specifically in any way; you just happen to be the first factory rep that I ever had the chance to discuss this with.
post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Walker View Post

Pick up a copy of the Best Buy... circular which carries electronics and/or tech products. There's a rebate on most EVERYTHING. It's MADDENING for consumers.

Mike, actually Best Buy stopped using mail-in rebates some time ago, as far as I know. I just looked at their ad to be sure, and I found no rebates in it at all.

Now, someplace like CompUSA, however, is as full of rebate putridity as ever. I never, ever shop there anymore, unless my company asks me to buy something there. Most other tech stores, as you said, are still full of that deceitful garbage too.
post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV View Post

If a manufacturer really just wants feedback from their customers, then WHY are all of these rebates intentionally set up to use the most troublesome, archaic method of communication and redemption; that is, cutting out parts of boxes, filling out paper forms, addressing envelopes, attaching stamps, and going to mailboxes, for Heaven's sake... UNLESS they are specifically trying to minimize, not maximize, responses from customers???

I used to work in retail stores, so I can add an additional perspective. I'm not fond of rebates too; was always a hassle to deal with. But in the defense of how they're implemented...

I've had customers buy a product with a rebate, send in the rebate form, and then try to return the product for a refund. If it weren't for the fact that they cut out the UPC code we wouldn't know they were trying to pull a fast one.
post #13 of 37
I feel your pain TydalForce, but that's a reason to quit using so many rebates!

As for Best Buy, maybe I'm trippin' (I threw away Sunday's paper...but I'll check again this weekend), but I thought I saw a bunch o' rebates in there this week. But if they really have stopped, God bless 'em! I could have been "projecting" my dismay at the number of rebates at Radio Shack and elsewhere!
post #14 of 37
Well the rebates are usually on the part of the manufacturer. The stores don't have much to do with a Manuf's rebate, except to go along with it
post #15 of 37
I'm sure you're right Tydal, but the result is the same. Retailers and manufacturers must be told that WE HATE THESE FREAKIN' REBATES!
post #16 of 37
The people in the stores agree with you. Me and my former sales manager used to bitch about rebates all the time.

If you really want to get yourself heard, write to the head offices of the stores and of the manufacturers themselves. That's where the decisions get made
post #17 of 37
I have written. I can't do it alone. LET'S ALL BITCH!
post #18 of 37
Originally posted by Master Theseus:
Quote:


Well, I can't speak for other manufacturers, but we use the rebates to test what reaction we might expect if we lowered the price.

For example, we have an atomic (sets itself to atomic clock in boulder, colorado) that is mostly selling for $79. We want to see if reducing the price to $69 improves sales. If it does enough, we will permanently reduce the price.

Another advantage is to be able to get some form of demographic information.

In your first two statements, you practically admit that you are out to gouge the consumer to the extent possible. If you can afford to reduce the price, then why don't you? And if you truly want to see what effect a price reduction has on sales, put the item ON SALE.

As for as your comment about collecting demographic information, I believe it's totally BS. You know where your sales come from - units sold to each retailer. And you know the relative economic status of purchasers by, for example, comparing BLS statistics with store locations. What is really at issue here is collecting ancillary information such as names, phone numbers, email addresses, income levels, etc - personal information. And do you sell this info to others?

Rebates are old marketing. People are sick of them. I just received some rebates last week that were mailed the day after Thanksgiving. I have resolved to never again purchase anything with a rebate. That's why retailers such as Best Buy have dropped rebates from their retailing business plan. I guess manufacturers that use rebates in their marketing schemes don't do business with Best Buy?
post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

Originally posted by Master Theseus:


In your first two statements, you practically admit that you are out to gouge the consumer to the extent possible. If you can afford to reduce the price, then why don't you? And if you truly want to see what effect a price reduction has on sales, put the item ON SALE.

As for as your comment about collecting demographic information, I believe it's totally BS. You know where your sales come from - units sold to each retailer. And you know the relative economic status of purchasers by, for example, comparing BLS statistics with store locations. What is really at issue here is collecting ancillary information such as names, phone numbers, email addresses, income levels, etc - personal information. And do you sell this info to others?

Rebates are old marketing. People are sick of them. I just received some rebates last week that were mailed the day after Thanksgiving. I have resolved to never again purchase anything with a rebate. That's why retailers such as Best Buy have dropped rebates from their retailing business plan. I guess manufacturers that use rebates in their marketing schemes don't do business with Best Buy?

See, that is where you are wrong. There are two ways for a business to make money, good margin, or good volume. At $79 we have good margin, at $69 we would need more volume. If I can't sell any more at $69 than I can at $79, then I am going to sell it for $79 to maintain profitability.

If I, as a business, can not make money then I don't want to be in business. Customers always complain about pricing, and I understand your goal is to save as much money as you can when buying something. If you didn't you would be a fool. However, as a business, I am supposed to get as much for my products as I can. If I didn't, I would be a fool.

So the answer is to find a balance. We make a product and try to sell it for a price that we believe the market will bear. If the market doesn't respond then I can say, "Well, they don't think this price is fair" and make adjustments.

And in response to putting it on sale, I already told you that putting it on sale costs me more money!! If I want to reduce the price $10 retail then I need to reduce the wholesale price to accommodate that and preserve the dealers margin. The retailer doesn't want me to reduce his margin so he charges me when I do. The quickest and easiest way to make sure that I get that $10 in the hands of consumers is by offering a rebate.

But I do want to make it clear, Sangean has only run 2 rebates in the last 32 years of doing business. We don't make a point of using rebates, but will use them if we feel it neccessary.
post #20 of 37
Look...nobody making HD Radios now is "out to gouge the consumer". And certainly not Sangean! These guys are taking a big risk on an unproven product! The first guys out the door ALWAYS take a beating. Ease the hell of, PLEASE and don't shoot the guys who are actually trying, at considerable expense, to make this thing work. Heaven forbid they might one day make a profit doing it! GEEZ!

It's AMAZING how spoiled people are by the low price of consumer electronics, which are both better and, adjusted for inflation, FAR CHEAPER than at any point in history!
post #21 of 37
Master & Mike, sorry, I don't buy either of your arguments. My comment about gouging was directly referenced to the given example involving an atomic clock, not an HD radio. As far as not using sales, concerns about merchants' markups, etc., consider this. At 123radios.com, the Sangean HDR1 was priced at $299.99, it now on sale for $229.99. That's 23.3% price reduction. The HDT1 was priced at $249.99, it's now on sale for $199.00. That's a 25% price reduction. On top of that, they'll be a new rebate beginning Monday of $40?

Selling an HDR1 radio for $299.99, then reducing it's price, after rebate, to $189.99, indicates to me that the original price was way too high regarding what the market could bear (bad, but rosy projection) and not indicative of the costs to produce and distribute the product. I'm sure Sangean nor the retailers are using these radios as loss leaders. I know manufacturers and retailers need to make a fair profit. But what is fair? If I'd have purchased the HDR1 for $299.99, I don't know about you, but I'd feel gouged. And I don't think Sangean is "taking a beating" in producing HD radios. If they were, they'd stop producing them. And I just love the statement "don't shoot the guys who are trying, at considerable expense, to make this thing work". These "guys" took a calculated business risk which they undoubted felt would work in their favor. They aren't some big hearted souls with empathy towards consumers wants without consideration of "taking a bath" in the process.

And I noticed that neither of you commented on my "ancillary information" comment.

And yes, it is amazing how spoiled people are by consumer electronics' relatively low prices. Unfortunately, the Sangean HDR1 priced at $299.99 doesn't fall into that generalization. The reason? Not much competition to put pressure on prices.

Perhaps you need to rethink your comment "Look...nobody making HD Radios now is "out to gouge the consumer" when the price drops as dramatically as I have noted above. Give me a break! The truth of the matter is that businesses will always try to gouge customers if they can get away with it. It's only market pressures - lack of sales or more competition - that drives prices down.
post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

At 123radios.com, the Sangean HDR1 was priced at $299.99, it now on sale for $229.99. That's 23.3% price reduction. The HDT1 was priced at $249.99, it's now on sale for $199.00. That's a 25% price reduction. On top of that, they'll be a new rebate beginning Monday of $40?

The intended retail price has ALWAYS been the $249 for the HDR-1 and $199 for the HDT-1. The high prices you see were set by the retailer and not our responsability. And the $40 rebate is from IBiquity, not us! Ibiqity makes far more money that we do. Last year our entire annual sales was a measly $1.2M SALES!!! Not profit! I have worked for office supply companies that sell more than that!!

At this point I think you are just being nieve and rediculous. Do you know that out of that $1.2M in sales we got last year that we invested $250K in developing the HDT-1? No, I am sure you didn't. Did you know that even to date we have not made enough sales of the HDT-1 at $35 profit to cover the $250K we invested in development? No. So until you know our business and how much time, effort and money it takes to make you a product that performs well and is inexpensive then I will ignore your silly attempt to save $.25! So loss leader? You bet you A$$! If we are lucky at the end of the year we may makeup 1/4 of the initial investment.
post #23 of 37
I am not nieve nor rediculous. Nor am I naive or ridiculous. I hope you know more about business than you know about spelling.

I'm not going to continue this argument after this post. Apparently your idea of a business model is to recover development costs in a year. Dream on. I've been in the business world for 37 years, I'm not some Joe Sixpack. If you're making $35 per radio, that's probably not only a fair profit, it's also what I would not term as a loss leader. And I never mentioned anything about saving $.25, which I equate to 25 cents. Finally, I see you still don't want to address my comments about ancillary information.

Look, I own the Accurian and I really like HD radio. I just don't like rebates anymore.
post #24 of 37
Anybody would claim that 250 bucks is "too much" for a quality component tuner is delusional. Check out the tuners at Audio Advisor http://www.audioadvisor.com and see what tuners actually cost these days.

Good tuners sold for 250-300 dollars THIRTY YEARS AGO. Adjusted for inflation that's what, a hundred bucks today? These guys want to make money on their products. What the hell is wrong with that?
post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

At 123radios.com, the Sangean HDR1 was priced at $299.99, it now on sale for $229.99. That's 23.3% price reduction. The HDT1 was priced at $249.99, it's now on sale for $199.00. That's a 25% price reduction. On top of that, they'll be a new rebate beginning Monday of $40?

You need a new retailer. They were always selling above list. That's not Sangean's fault.

I bought the HDT-1 for $199 as soon as they were available, and the price has never waivered where I bought it.
post #26 of 37
Will the new rebate cover the new Sangean tuner, or will it be released too late (or not apply to the Ibiquity rebate snce it's not listed now)?
post #27 of 37
"Mike Walker" - the listed retail price on Sangean's site for the HDT-1 is $199. It speaks very poorly for a retailer who "bumps" the asking price so they can reduce it to the actual MSRP. Try www.crutchfield.com or www.universal-radio.com Both are excellent on-line dealers and both are now referencing the $40 rebate which has just started.

REBATE site: http://www.hdradio.com/2007_HDRadio_Rebate.pdf
post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

I am not nieve nor rediculous. Nor am I naive or ridiculous. I hope you know more about business than you know about spelling.

I'm not going to continue this argument after this post. Apparently your idea of a business model is to recover development costs in a year. Dream on. I've been in the business world for 37 years, I'm not some Joe Sixpack. If you're making $35 per radio, that's probably not only a fair profit, it's also what I would not term as a loss leader. And I never mentioned anything about saving $.25, which I equate to 25 cents. Finally, I see you still don't want to address my comments about ancillary information.

Look, I own the Accurian and I really like HD radio. I just don't like rebates anymore.

I must have missspoke. . .The $35 is margin, not profit. Out of the $35 we still have to pay the licensing, shipping, marketing, and all other costs to sell the actually product. Once we actually do the math that margin eats away quickly.

As for spelling, luckally there are many research reports that say the ability to spell is not even a remote indicator of someones intelligence. Not that in my case it matters much. . I am still not that smart.

And about the ancillary information, it is important for us to understand whom is buying so that we can continue to make products that fit their desires and needs. For example, discussing with you all the needs and desires you have about our tuner we made improvements, but not all the improvements are feasable and would cost us more only to make little to no effect in the marketplace.

And I do appologise for the rudeness of my last several posts on this board. I did loose my cool and for that I am sorry. It just irritates me when people complain about having to pay what just about everyone else agrees is a fair price for a product.

And as a word. . I also hate rebates. That is why I was working with IBiquity to find a better solution, but after exhaustive attempts we could not come up with a reasonable alternative.
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwagoner View Post

Will the new rebate cover the new Sangean tuner, or will it be released too late (or not apply to the Ibiquity rebate snce it's not listed now)?

I just got a recent update about the availability of the HDT-1X. . . We will begin production in May and should hopefully have some available before the rebate ends. We only have 500 units to sell before we run out. . .so if you see them and want them buy them immediately.

I also need to convince the factory that we can move 500 sets of the rackmounts! So if you are interested in rackmounts, please PM me or send me an e-mail at clayton@sangean.com so that I can begin counting the requests.
post #30 of 37
I'm breaking my silence because I really appreciate the apology and must admit that I got a little hot under the collar also so for that I am sorry.

I picked up my son at DIA Saturday. There is only one gas station within 10 miles of the airport, a Conoco, at the rental car return area. The posted price of unleaded regular was $3.09, while the Conoco station up the street from me currently has a posted price of $2.91. That's the type of business practice I was thinking of when commenting about price gouging. I did not mean to infer that Sangean was price gouging, or that they were even setting the retail price as that would probably be illegal.

But I still don't like rebates
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