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Best 5.1 speaker setup for $1500?

post #1 of 49
4/26/07 at 7:12pm
Thread Starter 
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?i...dunit16vw6.gif
I will be putting the system in the livingroom.
This will primarily be for watching movies.
I am hoping to match this with the onkyo 605 receiver.
So far I have only really looked at the klipsch B-3 system.
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post #2 of 49
4/26/07 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jared701 View Post

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?i...dunit16vw6.gif
I will be putting the system in the livingroom.
This will primarily be for watching movies.
I am hoping to match this with the onkyo 605 receiver.
So far I have only really looked at the klipsch B-3 system.

I'm in the same boat you are when it comes to budget. The x-series from ********** might be a good way to go. Reviews, testimonials and the 30 day in home trial have got me sold. Hopefully, in a month or two I'll have the x-mtm tower fronts, x-cs center, x-cs surrounds and the x-sub(or two). This setup with 1 sub would run $1065 plus shipping.
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post #3 of 49
4/26/07 at 8:08pm
Thread Starter 
hmm, do you or does anyone know if this ********** setup would be better than the klipsch B-3 system?
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post #4 of 49
4/27/07 at 12:46am
better at what? Better at sound? they will sound different. whats better, asparagus or broccoli?
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post #5 of 49
4/27/07 at 4:07am
I'll put my vote in for A123 and SVS.....
With 1500 you could get some SLS fronts and xls surrounds xcs for center and then jump over to svs or hsu for your sub........http://www.**********/
123
1500 will get you an SVS SCS-01 5.1 with at 20-39PCi if you like cylinders...They look good and sound good and take up a little less room or you could snag a PB12-NSD if you like the box style...........Both those systems would ROCK for movies............http://www.svsound.com/products-sys.cfm
SVS
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post #6 of 49
4/27/07 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jared701 View Post

hmm, do you or does anyone know if this ********** setup would be better than the klipsch B-3 system?

AV123 will have the better cabinets, but as for sound the X-series would be better to me because I don't like horn tweeters, horns are to harsh on the upper end frequencies.

They will both sound different.

Have you heard the Klipsch? If you have and you like it go with the Klipsch.
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post #7 of 49
4/27/07 at 7:29am
You can also look at Aperion Audio's Intimus 532 Cinema HD.

Or an Infinity Beta setup with the 360 center speaker and bookshelf speakers.

In both of these, the center speaker is a three-way design with the tweeter and midrange in a vertical orientation. Hence, both centers measure well off-axis as well as on-axis.

The center speakers mentioned from SVS and AV123 are typical two-way woofer-tweeter-woofer combinations. So if you're sitting directly in front of the speaker it will sound fine. But as you start to move off to the sides and listen from the other end of the couch for example, it will not sound nearly as good--lobing, phase cancellation etc. Dialogue will be harder to understand.
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post #8 of 49
4/27/07 at 7:40am
You will almost certainly experience these center channel problems with the Klipsch system as well. (I wasn't singling out AV123 and SVS--they were just the ones mentioned.)

For more info on the problems of most typical woofer-tweeter-woofer two way centers, you can check out:

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index...Id=12&blogId=1

Or go to UltimateAV.com and check out their reviews (particularly the measurements) of any speaker system that uses WTW designs. They have never measured one that did well off axis.

I haven't heard Aperion, but if you're looking at ID brands, this is the only one I know of that makes a properly designed center channel. (5 and 6 series---not the 4.)
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post #9 of 49
4/27/07 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
I'll look into the aperon system. Thanks for the heads up. I was about to bite on the av123 system, but should compare these 2 before I decide for sure. I saw someone mentioning an S brand system vs the av123 system vs the HD sytem.
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post #10 of 49
4/27/07 at 8:10am
Don't purchase Klipsch just because of the name. Klipsch uses a horn tweeter which may or may not be to your liking. You need to hear other speakers before you will be able to tell.
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post #11 of 49
4/27/07 at 8:16am
At that budget, you can aim higher than SVS/av123 speakers and go for Ascends in combination with HSU subwoofer. While they are tad more expensive, sound clarity might be a bit better. Check multiple comparison threads posted on this forum.
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post #12 of 49
4/27/07 at 8:36am
Ascend's center speaker will give you the same off-axis problems as Klipsch, AV123 and SVS.

Their center speaker is another two-way, WTW design. It will not sound as good to someone sitting off to the side.

Notice how the only measurements listed for the center speaker on Ascend's website are for on-axis results.

Unfortunately, in this price range, this is the way the majority of center speakers are designed. It's done this way because it's cost effective--not because it sounds good.

There are very few speaker companies in this price range that do it right.

I know there's a lot of love for ID brands like Ascend and AV123 and SVS on this website but the bottom line is that the center channel speakers they manufacture are compromised.

(An exception would appear to be AV123's Rocket series which does employ a three-way, vertically oriented center. Although, I haven't seen how it measures.)
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post #13 of 49
4/27/07 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
So, I'm trying to decide between the SVS which I haven't really looked into, an order from ********** which would include an x-cs center x-mtm mains x-sls surround and their sub which would come to around 1300 shipped. Aperion Audio's Intimus 532 Cinema HD with 4 stands comes to around 1700 shipped and the stands are only 2.5 feet tall, which I'm not sure I like the height of.
Could someone list the model number of the ascends or link me to their site so I can check out those speakers?
Between these 4 sets of speakers, what is considered to be the best pair or is it widely disputed?
I like the idea of the HD speakers spreading the sound so that you don't need to be right in front to hear it as well.
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post #14 of 49
4/27/07 at 9:24am
I'd throw Home Theater Direct in there... for $1160 you could pick up a pair of Level 3 towers, Level 3 center, and Level 3 bookshelves... from there add a sub of your liking and budget to round things out (The HDT Level 3 sub isn't a bad choice for $350 though a PB12-NSD or 25-31 PCi would likely do better).
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post #15 of 49
4/27/07 at 10:06am
The Home Theater Direct center channel will have the same off-axis phase cancellation and lobing problems as other two way centers with a tweeter flanked by two woofers.

Like the others, it will be a "sweet-spot" speaker--it will sound it's best when the listener is seated in the spot directly on-axis / in front of it.

This defeats the role of a center channel speaker.

The purpose of a center channel is to lock dialogue to the screen so that everyone in the room can enjoy the movie regardless of where they sit.

There was a thread a while back about this....I think it was called "The Perfect Center Channel" or "The Perfect Center Channel Speaker." It's worth reading.
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post #16 of 49
4/27/07 at 1:25pm
I'm thinking about the Epos ELS 5.1 system myself, 1500.00 msrp
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post #17 of 49
4/27/07 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty much set on the aperion Intimus 532 Cinema HD now. I believe I read somewhere that this sub was not the greatest though. I know the front three speakers need to be matched. Would it hurt my sound any if I went with a different subwoofer? If it won't, what would you guys suggest? Also note, I need something that will not disturb the neighbors in an apartment complex, so I may actually not be able to have a sub until I get a house of my own
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post #18 of 49
4/27/07 at 2:12pm
I'm in the same boat as the op and was considering a set up from Paradigm. Always heard good things about them. What do you guys think of a package like this Paradigm Mini Monitor
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post #19 of 49
4/27/07 at 2:34pm
I went from the Paradigm SE MK3 series (predecessor to the Monitor serries) to Swans Divas (with a few others in between) and feel the Swans are a big step up. You could pick up Swans 2.1 mains and surrounds, C3 Center, and an SVS PB12-NSD (Overstock) for right at your $1500 budget...

And the C3 center is a 3-way design so hopefully I won't get lambasted by dlfromcanada that all 2-way centers are horrible...
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post #20 of 49
4/27/07 at 4:57pm
All two way centers aren't horrible. That wasn't my point.

The B&W HTM7 is an example of a two way center that performs very well both on and off axis. It's a great speaker.
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post #21 of 49
4/27/07 at 5:53pm
The Paradigms look like a nice package.
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post #22 of 49
4/27/07 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

All two way centers aren't horrible. That wasn't my point.

The B&W HTM7 is an example of a two way center that performs very well both on and off axis. It's a great speaker.

Have you heard the center channels from Ascend, SVS, and AV123, or others you said were not good?

Do you know the reason the HTM7 performs well eventhough it is a two-way?
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post #23 of 49
4/27/07 at 6:54pm
The B&W HTM7 is a two-way but the tweeter is mounted vertically above the midrange/woofer.

I have not heard it but this is what UltimateAV.com wrote about it when they measured it:

"The measured frequency response of the HTM7 is roughly similar to that of the 703 above 1kHz, and a little leaner at low frequencies. It actually falls within a somewhat tighter window, the averaged front response (+/-15°) measuring +/-2.5dB from about 42Hz to 20kHz. More significant, the vertical orientation of the drivers avoids the nemesis of so many 2-way center-channel speakers: the dreaded off-axis suckout. Even at extreme off-axis angles, there are no dips in the response of the sort we invariably see in speakers that use horizontally configured woofers and tweeters."

This is in contrast to most two-way center speakers which use a "D'Appolito" configuration turned on it's side--in other words it is a tweeter flanked by a midrange/woofer on the left and right side in a horizontal confirguration.

No, I have not heard the center channel speakers from Ascend, SVS and AV123 but I have never seen a midrange-tweeter-midrange center speaker measure well off axis, and I would bet the farm that none of these hold up well off-axis. And that is very important in Home Theater in my opinion. (Again, AV123 takes the right approach in their Rocket line, just not in the entry level line.)

If you were to purchase from Ascend or SVS you would be better off not buying the center channel speaker and simply buying the bookshelf speaker that matches the left and right speaker and using that as your center.
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post #24 of 49
4/27/07 at 7:33pm
What is interesting is when people talk about "off axis" with some of these MTM designs, and it not being good, you are also talking about sitting outside or right at the the boundary created by the left or right main speaker. In which case your soundstage is shot anyways, and in most cases, many people do not do.

The problem you are referring to is called lobbing.

I agree, that having a traditional vertical speaker would be better, but in most cases, it is not something that is possible to do, and unless you were able to place it the same height as the mains, you will still run into imaging problems because of vertical dispersion characteristics......ie. sound not anchored to the screen.
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post #25 of 49
4/27/07 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

The B&W HTM7 is a two-way but the tweeter is mounted vertically above the midrange/woofer.

I have not heard it but this is what UltimateAV.com wrote about it when they measured it:

"The measured frequency response of the HTM7 is roughly similar to that of the 703 above 1kHz, and a little leaner at low frequencies. It actually falls within a somewhat tighter window, the averaged front response (+/-15°) measuring +/-2.5dB from about 42Hz to 20kHz. More significant, the vertical orientation of the drivers avoids the nemesis of so many 2-way center-channel speakers: the dreaded off-axis suckout. Even at extreme off-axis angles, there are no dips in the response of the sort we invariably see in speakers that use horizontally configured woofers and tweeters."

This is in contrast to most two-way center speakers which use a "D'Appolito" configuration turned on it's side--in other words it is a tweeter flanked by a midrange/woofer on the left and right side in a horizontal confirguration.

No, I have not heard the center channel speakers from Ascend, SVS and AV123 but I have never seen a midrange-tweeter-midrange center speaker measure well off axis, and I would bet the farm that none of these hold up well off-axis. And that is very important in Home Theater in my opinion. (Again, AV123 takes the right approach in their Rocket line, just not in the entry level line.)

If you were to purchase from Ascend or SVS you would be better off not buying the center channel speaker and simply buying the bookshelf speaker that matches the left and right speaker and using that as your center.

Ascend, AV123 and SVS will all three allow one to put a bookshelf as the center channel.

This is not exactly some big secret. In fact, they show systems configured this way.

So, when you say things like "just not in their entry level line", you are wrong. WHAT a shock.

All three companies give you a choice.

Paradigm also has the WTW design in their entry level center channels.
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post #26 of 49
4/28/07 at 4:07am

http://www.bose.com/controller?event...surround_index

sorry, couldn't resist....up early & bored

BTW - about to order an X set-up myself (XCS across the front/XLS rears/sub-unsure)...
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post #27 of 49
4/28/07 at 4:08am
I'd like to chime in with PSB's T45 system from www.dmc-electronics.com you could get the T45 system w/sub for 1500 and w/o sub for 1000. You may have not heard of PSB but they'll definately give you a good bang for your buck. Check their site for local dealers to audition.

Good luck
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post #28 of 49
4/28/07 at 4:50am
Quote:


whats better, asparagus or broccoli?

Neither.

At $1k there are a lot of companies that have $200 each bookshelf speakers and if you got 5 , or 4 with a horizontal center (even if center is $100 more than a bookshelf they'll do the set-up for $1k) then you have $500 for a sub , and I'd rather not discuss the sub choices now. As for all the brand choices that have @$200 bookshelves (street), try some of the following in direct comparison to one another:
Paradigms (MONITORS)
B&W (DM 300 OR 600 SERIES)
Def Tech (PM1000'S)
Polk
Athena
JBL
KLIPSCH
Era (Design3's)
etc....lots of $200 bookshelf speakers that you can go out and audition.
GOOD LUCK, and remember , they're your ears.
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post #29 of 49
4/28/07 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

The B&W HTM7 is a two-way but the tweeter is mounted vertically above the midrange/woofer.

I have not heard it but this is what UltimateAV.com wrote about it when they measured it:

"The measured frequency response of the HTM7 is roughly similar to that of the 703 above 1kHz, and a little leaner at low frequencies. It actually falls within a somewhat tighter window, the averaged front response (+/-15°) measuring +/-2.5dB from about 42Hz to 20kHz. More significant, the vertical orientation of the drivers avoids the nemesis of so many 2-way center-channel speakers: the dreaded off-axis suckout. Even at extreme off-axis angles, there are no dips in the response of the sort we invariably see in speakers that use horizontally configured woofers and tweeters."

This is in contrast to most two-way center speakers which use a "D'Appolito" configuration turned on it's side--in other words it is a tweeter flanked by a midrange/woofer on the left and right side in a horizontal confirguration.

No, I have not heard the center channel speakers from Ascend, SVS and AV123 but I have never seen a midrange-tweeter-midrange center speaker measure well off axis, and I would bet the farm that none of these hold up well off-axis. And that is very important in Home Theater in my opinion. (Again, AV123 takes the right approach in their Rocket line, just not in the entry level line.)

If you were to purchase from Ascend or SVS you would be better off not buying the center channel speaker and simply buying the bookshelf speaker that matches the left and right speaker and using that as your center.

In a smallish room the off axis performance is moot. I agree with getting a matching bookshelf for the center speaker. I have tried both the Ascend center and bookshelf and can not tell a difference in my 14' wide room. I would be more concerned about detail, clarity, and power handling performance for a particular size room.
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post #30 of 49
4/28/07 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Ascend, AV123 and SVS will all three allow one to put a bookshelf as the center channel.

This is not exactly some big secret. In fact, they show systems configured this way.

So, when you say things like "just not in their entry level line", you are wrong. WHAT a shock.

All three companies give you a choice.

Paradigm also has the WTW design in their entry level center channels.

When I said, "just not in their entry level line" I was referring to the fact that the entry level AV123 speakers use a typical, horizontal two-way design but the Rocket series uses a three-way, vertical design.

Being able to buy a bookshelf speaker isn't a secret at all, I was just pointing it out as an option. In the thread on this forum, "The Perfect Center Channel" I think several people mentioned it. Whether or not this option works for everyone is a different story.

When I mentioned Paradigm, I was referring to their brand new Monitor series. It includes a relatively inexpensive center channel speaker that is a three-way design--it's the cc-190 for $249.
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