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XBMC - Making the Jump

post #1 of 69
4/29/07 at 9:31pm
Thread Starter 
Greetings

After reading many threads and forums around the net concerning the Xbox XBMC setup, I've decided to give it a go. I only heard of the XBMC a week ago (can't believe I never heard of it sooner - and I've been reading all week trying to make sense of it all).

I have been prowling HTPC forums like here and media extender reviews for years - but nothing seems to live up to expectations or marketing BS. While I'm fairly technically competent, I'm not a puter geek so I've tended to hold off on a full blown HTPC. I've been reading and waiting for many years for the right device to arrive (yawn), but so far that hasn't happened. I had high hopes for the EVA8000 - but we won't go there. AppleTV seems like a possibility in time - but not yet. Great posts about XBMC have got me excited.

I plan to get an XBOX tomorrow. Currently, this seems like the the most cost effective and least technical solution to the problem of connecting ones HT to a network. My intention is to create a video server system where I can stream my DVD collection. Everything else this unit can do is secondary. I plan on doing the mod myself.

I still have a couple of questions regarding the Xbox.

1 - Component Video needs an advanced AV connection correct? I have seen several available online, but are these for the 360 or will they work with both?

2 - What makes Xboxes crap out? (Most common cause with general game use) Should I get a backup Xbox

3 - How is the PicQuality of standard DVD's (I'm located in a PAL region)

4 - Is there any reason one version (1.0 - 1.6??) is better than another. (I couldn't find this online)

5 - Finally, are there any Kiwi's here who live in Auckland that would be willing to help me if I get stuck?

I'm sure there are other issues I will discover but I'll move forward as things pan out. I'm planning to post my progress here in the hope (with all your wonderful participation) that it is a fun and exciting experience. I have been dreaming of a media server system for more years than I care to think about - now I want to make it a reality.

This is a really great site and I'm looking forward to all your suggestions and guidance.
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post #2 of 69
4/30/07 at 7:52am
1 - yes, you can get the microsoft advanced hd pack, which will have component and digital-audio out. they're hard to find nowadays, but you can probably get them on ebay or online somewhere. alternatively, a popular choice would be the Monster xbox hd pack. you can also try your luck with a 3rd party vendor; i'm using one made by mad catz, sold (exclusively) at gamestop - works fine for me.

2 - xboxes usually crap out when the user makes a bad mod. this includes installing/soldering a mod chip, installing a new harddrive, messing with the internals somehow. if none of those, xboxes sometimes just crap out for no good reason. it might have little to do with how old it is as well. since you're making it just as a streamer, i don't think you'll be installing a modchip (do a softmod) and you probably won't put in a larger hdd (it'll all be streamed). so just use it like normal; keep it ventilated; just hope it won't die.

3 - i'm in the nstc region; i range dvd quality in the "good" area. i suppose you're talking about when passing it through the hd pack. it'll be component as you know, and it doesn't have anything like faroudja processing or anything. i do believe it does some good scaling and cleans the signal up a bit. i think you'll be satisfied; how big is your screen?

4 - back in the day, the xbox version was more important for those installing a mod chip. you're not, but nowadays, there are xbox modchips that range all the versions. softmodding is universal. and one other thing is that the different versions came with different dvdrom drives. i forget the brands/models, but i think there were 3. i believe it's the earlier models that was more forgiving as to what type of media you put in there. some don't allow reading from CDR; not sure about DVDR, etc. not sure if you plan to use it for watching burned content; or if you plan to use it for retail DVDs and streaming only.

5 - can't help you out there. sorry.
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post #3 of 69
4/30/07 at 8:23am
Regarding versions, this can affect flashing the onboard bios (i.e. why bother with a mod chip). 1.0 can hold mutliple bioses (doesn't matter), 1.1-1.5 can hold a hacked bios (generally xecuter2 256k forget the most recent), 1.6 cannot be flashed and requires a mod chip (extra expense).

www.xbox-scene.com is the mecca for all things Xbox modding. I'd also check out the DVD/Remote kit - can be had cheap, and the Xir Remote mod for on/off http://xir.us/.
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post #4 of 69
4/30/07 at 9:16am
1 - Component Video needs an advanced AV connection correct? I have seen several available online, but are these for the 360 or will they work with both?

not the same as 360. Check out amazon.com, ebay or your local games stores.

We picked up a MS HD pack here in the states at a local store last week for $8 US

2 - What makes Xboxes crap out? (Most common cause with general game use) Should I get a backup Xbox

generally they are very reliable. Hard drives die as with any computer. Sometimes the power supplies go out. Try the first one out and if you like then you will probably end up with a few more like me.


3 - How is the PicQuality of standard DVD's (I'm located in a PAL region)

Can't comment on PAL

4 - Is there any reason one version (1.0 - 1.6??) is better than another. (I couldn't find this online)


you dont want a 1.0 The 1.0 is the only xbox with a GPU Fan. Even if you replace the case fan to make it quieter the GPU fan makes the overwhelming amount of noise. 1.1 - 1.6 don't have this issue...

Sean
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post #5 of 69
4/30/07 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
I hadn't thought much about a softmod. I've been researching a modchip - so what can a new chip do Vs a softmod? Is there any speed difference? At least with a softmod I could move forward more quickly as opposed to waiting for a chip to arrive (If I go in that direction). Does a softmod allow the same things a modchip does (ie - bigger HD if I want one)? Can I back up the drive? How do I get on if the HD craps out - can it be replaced?

Finding the latest info is the most time consuming part. A lot of stuff is 5 years old, the links don't work, and a lot of stuff has changed since those times.

As for the HD pack, Amazon doesn't ship Xbox stuff Internationally, so I'll see if I can find one locally. I can still get a brand new DVD remote from the shop selling the box, but not sure about the AV pack. I did plan on the remote mod.

I'm just about to go get a box. Back later
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post #6 of 69
4/30/07 at 3:53pm
From what I understand, softmodding is not an option for swapping the HD. If that's integral, look at modchips or flashing the onboard bios.
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post #7 of 69
4/30/07 at 4:26pm
You sure can swap a hard drive with a soft modded box... Living proof right here... Lots of tutorials on line as well...
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post #8 of 69
4/30/07 at 4:55pm
there are some features that some modchips offer that you can't get with softmodding, but for what you're doing (streaming media with xbmc), you shouldn't worry about it. with softmodding, you'll need a particular game and mem card, which is more readily available than ordering a modchip. i fg which games can be used to softmod; i think mechassault is one of them, splinter cell, and one of the 007 games. i think the huge xbmc thread has the details, i hope.

you can upgrade the hdd even if you softmod. at one point, i thought there was a limit as to how large of a hdd you can install, but i don't think that's the case anymore. i do remember seeing a website have a list/database of all the compatible harddrive models. it was a huge list; i think the xbox is forgiving as to what you can install. i picked up a random 80gb wd hdd at some pc show, and it worked.
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post #9 of 69
4/30/07 at 6:52pm
Xbox-Scene Tutorials are here - there is a soft-mod section: http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox-tutorials.php. Soft-modding wasn't around when I did my box so I know very little about it. These days I'd probably look very closely at it for my uses.

The issue with HD size was fixed in bios a while ago (I think it was refered to as the LB48 issue or something which limited drives to 137GB. That said, I'm pretty sure with the new mega hard drives that some people with 500GB or more have found issues and use both an F and G partition (for reference C is boot, D may be saves but I don't remember, E is the major storage area, F is for larger non-stock harddrives and is all remaining, and G is rarely used except when someone upgraded to LB48 and didn't want to redo the HD but G may be used now with very big ones to deal with some file issues).

Also, regarding some of the soft-mod games, the Xbox Silver/Greatest Hits editions often get fixed against the exploit. I know this was the case with 007 as you needed the original. Just something to watch out for. Modchips are easy as hell to find and buy online but the real issue is installing them and unless you are a competent solderer already it can turn into a fiasco and those pogo pin modchips have been known to have issues and come loose from time to time (then again plenty of people have no problems).
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post #10 of 69
4/30/07 at 11:33pm
Thread Starter 


I set it up and verified it was working. I had a quick play then tested some DVD's. The PQ seemed reasonable and the DVD-ROM wasn't too noisy. The unit is a lot faster at selecting menus/chapters/skipping and playing after skipping than my stand-alone DVD player. It was all pretty basic stuff. Then I got serious and opened the case to verify its version



I discovered it is a version 1.6 according to the info here

I didn't have a choice as it was the only one the store had. I'm happy Now I have to decide how to mod it. I'm currently leaning toward a chip mod. I'm currently in the process of investigating local suppliers (NZ).
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post #11 of 69
4/30/07 at 11:58pm
Thread Starter 
After further searching this afternoon I have found answers to some of my questions. It occurred to me the PQ is probably the same as the DVD-ROM output when I finally get it streamed across a network. I only had a composite connection and it looked reasonable on a 42" Sony LCD. I have ordered a component connection so I expect some improvement. It'll will probably take some time to arrive.

I'd like to use this dashboard. It was this thread that got me all excited.



Isn't this the Project Mayhem 3 dash that comes with XBMC?
Is the newly loaded software Linux based? I've read a lot about EvoX, but I couldn't find any screen-shots. Is EvoX the dash, or is it the underlying software? I'd like some clarification on that.

A local store suggests this chip. I'm still researching though.
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post #12 of 69
5/1/07 at 6:00am
That's the stock XBMC dash. If you intend to use this primarily for media, that's the only dash you should be concerned with. Forget Evox, although using it temporarily may make the modding process easier - not sure.

I don't know much about softmods but really, the whole goal is to get the Xbox to run unsigned code. That's all any mod chip does so you get the same functionality out of any mod chip or even flashing the onboard bios (not an option for 1.6). A soft-mod can do the same thing. If you have interest in playing Xbox Live online then maybe a case can be made but don't get wedded to a chip. I had a chip for a long time and eventually just flashed the onboard bios and did away with it - and it does exactly the same thing as before, same hacked bios, no difference in usage. This is a mature product at this point, no new features have come out in a long time in the bios or soft-mod world, just get it done and start running XBMC.
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post #13 of 69
5/1/07 at 9:21am
component cables will make the video much much cleaner and sharper.

like chrisfb said, you might as well save some headache and just go the softmod route. i quickly skimmed the features on that chip; i'm not sure you're going to be using any of them for your purposes.

evox is primarily a dash; xbmc is primarily a program that you can run from the dash. like chrisfb said, you can run xbmc as your dash, although it might be a better idea to use evox just during set up. replacing evox with xbmc as your dash afterwards is as easy as moving some folders around.

for even faster access to my files, i've gotten rid of the xbmc startup intro (usually a splash and sound by the group who made the build) and defaulted xbmc to start in "My Files" so i can quickly go down to my SMB share.
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post #14 of 69
5/1/07 at 10:46am
Krazie's softmod allows for multiple boot dash's. I boot into xbmc by powering up with the power button and I use the DVD tray button to boot up into evox. I only use evox when upgrading xbmc. (Let me save you some head aches now by telling you that you should only upgrade xbmc while using an alternate dash like evox or one of the others.)
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post #15 of 69
5/1/07 at 7:32pm
Thread Starter 
Again...thank you for your valuable comments. There is always a lot to consider - especially for a noob!

I have continued to research the chip Vs Softmod option. Considering the requirements of a softmod (Game, USB Drive etc) it is basically equal to the cost/effort of a modchip IMO. Somehow, the modchip feels right to me - a gut/intuition thing .

After further research and agonising over the various chips I came to the following conclusion.

1 - I will not need many of the options available on the top chips for what I want right now. Once the system is setup, I probably will not need to touch it.

2 - I know very little about the possibilities of the XBox and the mods. I tend to have to see/touch/play with the various features to fully understand them. A basic setup will grow my confidence and I can branch out from there.

3 - If I outgrow the basic system, I can always build up another box with all the latest and coolest stuff (I was keen on an LCD panel, but that can wait)

4 - And this was surprising...I found a guy who lives just up the road who will carry out the mod for a very small fee...recommended by one of the local mod sites. He will even install the 30Gb drive I had sitting here as part of it. This seems the simplest option considering the mountain of material one has to wade through to sort a box out for oneself.

If things go well, I should have the box setup tonight while I wait and watch. Sounded too easy and this way I don't have to wait for a chip to arrive.

I hope you don't mind my enthusiasm

Hopefully back tomorrow. Stay
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post #16 of 69
5/2/07 at 8:09am
Note there are two ways to do a softmod. The first is to use the game save exploit (which requires the appropriate game, etc.). The second is to do a hot swap of the hard drive. This doesn't require any additional hardware, but is a more risky endeavour. I went this route and didn't have any problems.
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post #17 of 69
5/2/07 at 8:10am
Softmod link coming up...
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post #18 of 69
5/2/07 at 8:10am
when I get to 5 posts...
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post #19 of 69
5/2/07 at 8:11am
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=496263
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post #20 of 69
5/2/07 at 3:05pm
Thread Starter 
While a softmod is definitely an option, I've decided to get my unit chipped, as it has worked out to be the easiest and simplest choice. As I said, the bonus is the modder lives just up the road. Unfortunately, he is out of chips and his next shipment didn't arrive yesterday as expected, so I am in hover mode.

My focus has now shifted to creating a server setup. I am rather interested in the "UnRAID" system, but there seems to still be issues with supported drive cards, MB's and also read/write speeds. I'm still investigating.

I am looking at the NASlite stuff as well. What are your suggestions. I have read other threads on this forum regarding this, but it is still an open proposition.

Is there any bonus (apart from backup/parity info) these systems offer over a (JBOD??) setup? (Meaning a case full of drives say running XP). This initially seemed like the easiest solution, but I'd definitely like some advice.

Does this case/drives/xp solution need a server config? What is the difference if it does?

How much does the speed of the network affect the streaming (Does it need to be Gigabit?)

Thx...I'm off to research some more
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post #21 of 69
5/2/07 at 5:29pm
Not a JBOD expert but I'm not sure how easy it is to swap drives, add drives, or remove drives from an existing array. Anyone who has been running a media server will attest that this is huge. You always wind up scaling your space over time and expanding an existing array as good deals come on the market is very valuable. The strength of unRAID in that it provides parity, is easy to expand through additional or swapped drives, and since it is not striped offers spindown which saves power, noise, heat, lengthens the lifespan of the drives and exposes them to very different usage patterns (losing multiple drives at once is bad and this will help but also not being striped minimizes a multidrive loss to only those failed drives rather than the whole array).

As far as issues with write speed - it's going to be slower over a network by default and this is any server but obviously hardware raid with striping rather than software will provide better performance (then again the purpose is to serve media and function conveniently for this purpose rather that write it as fast as possible).

For reading performance...see here as this is an impressive stress test and other links are provided: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10449703
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post #22 of 69
5/2/07 at 9:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFB View Post

Not a JBOD expert but I'm not sure how easy it is to swap drives, add drives, or remove drives from an existing array. Anyone who has been running a media server will attest that this is huge. You always wind up scaling your space over time and expanding an existing array as good deals come on the market is very valuable. The strength of unRAID in that it provides parity, is easy to expand through additional or swapped drives, and since it is not striped offers spindown which saves power, noise, heat, lengthens the lifespan of the drives and exposes them to very different usage patterns (losing multiple drives at once is bad and this will help but also not being striped minimizes a multidrive loss to only those failed drives rather than the whole array).

As far as issues with write speed - it's going to be slower over a network by default and this is any server but obviously hardware raid with striping rather than software will provide better performance (then again the purpose is to serve media and function conveniently for this purpose rather that write it as fast as possible).

For reading performance...see here as this is an impressive stress test and other links are provided: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10449703

Thx for the valuable info. Much of what you've said is why I was looking at UnRAID - saw it quite some time ago and thought it looked good. I like the idea of the HD's spinning down (heat, lifespan and power saving as you say). Not sure I really need the parity protection though.

I planned on a full 1:1 backup of my movies to HDrives and just leave them sitting in a cupboard on a shelf (protect my large collection investment) as well as running a separate server of HD's with the "movie only". HD's are cheap enough now if you shop around to make this affordable. Some would say its cheaper to buy the disc again instead of doubling up like this, but like all collections, some things aren't replaceable (Discontinued etc). "Movie only" on the server seems the way to go as a lot of the "Extra" stuff just isn't worth watching and even the good stuff is only worth one watch - takes up too much space as well.

I'm definitely going to use the free version of UnRAID (3 x 500Gb drives) and set that as a trial. These drives should take a while to fill up. I thought the best bet is to backup my movie to the hard drive and watch it from there when it's time to watch that particular movie again. This way I'm not spending days backing up and I can check the integrity of each movie as I go.

Another option I have considered as using the 1:1 backup drives and not run a server at all. Just plug the drive I want into a USB drivebox and plug it into the network - surf to the movie I want and hit go. A 500Gb drive would hold a lot of movies and I'd only have to change infrequently (Unlike the usual task of picking a disc, loading the player etc). If I put my best movies on one drive I see it as a fairly simple process and surely less task-orientated than the player scenario.

Anyway, I have to get some components first to build a server. I'll start with a cooler stacker case I think and go from there. The hardware requirements for the UnRAID seem limited so I might start with an old box I have already if it'll do the job. Time will tell.
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post #23 of 69
5/4/07 at 3:55am
I run a XBox with the Xecuter 3CE mod chip on v1.6 XBox. XBMC is my default dash and it is served by a Novell Netware v6.5 SP6 File Server set up to emulate a Windows NT Server share. The XBMC uses it's built-in samba protocols to connect to and access the resources on my File Server.

You should consider setting up a Linux Server in a remote part of your home, allowing it to serve your files in general, and act as a print server. You can do so much with Linux. You could set it up as a set top box PVR, then access the recorded movie share from your XBox, or you could set the Linux box up as a UPnP device, and there would be very little configuration afterwards because XBMC supports UPnP devices (check to see if your Router supports UPnP).

I looked at sharing my movies, games and music from a Windows PC but they are not designed to "Serve" files while efficiently managing standard processes. If you are going to invest in a SAN device of some kind, you might as well look at improving the overall organization of your network as a whole by implementing a server solution that can minimize or eliminate the long term problems associated with a peer-to-peer networks, as I did.

I chose Novell because of the ease of setting up and managing my users (3), printer sharing (3), Data Backup (1 TB), Web Server, VPN/FTP Access and file search across all of my volumes. The best part of my setup is that I have access to tons of support and I can control how and when my data is accessed, and it is cake to change it (Web-based). My Server has sat in the basement for a year without any problems.

On another note, while you've got the case open on your XBox, buy a quiet fan because the stock fan is very noisy! XBMC is graphic intensive and will cause your GPU to heat up just from moving around the menus so make heat managment a priority so you don't take a chance on burning up your CPU and/or GPU.

-LA
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post #24 of 69
5/4/07 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA6507 View Post


I looked at sharing my movies, games and music from a Windows PC but they are not designed to "Serve" files while efficiently managing standard processes.

Just an FYI, I've nearly 1TB on a Windows XP machine with an AMD3400+ and 1GB of Ram. It serves audio and all formats of video flawlessly (DVD ISO, Hi-Res Xvid at 576p) even to multiple machines. My neighbor actually removed Server 2003 and went with XP when he rebuilt his multi TB machine. For serving files to a couple of units, it's more than adequate. If you are looking for a corporate backbone - forget it.

Actually now that I think about it, I have another XP machine with a Celeron 1400, 256MB of Ram and it handles similar files (DVD ISO etc...) off an ATA 100 interface no less and even has done it over the 33 PCI bus when I had an IDE card in here. That thing has been streaming all types of content to my Xbox since early 2003. Actually, I've served 1.4 GB high quality Xvid while encoding DVDs with Gordian Knot at the same time on it and encountered no issues although GK defaults to low priority. Granted it doesn't see much use and houses my kid's video and some other misc now but it has never failed.

It's not ideal for mainstream server duties in the world but for streaming over a home network to a limited number of users, it works and has always worked flawlessly. But if you want to stack on other functions that are going to tax it all the time, you may want to look at something else (a user doing normal work is not an issue though, I assume intensive gaming or high priority video encoding would be).
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post #25 of 69
5/4/07 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
Thx for the advice. I have wondered if a standard XP machine would act as a server as easily as anything. It would be quite easy for me to setup using some older tech I have.

UnRAID is also growing on me after some serious reading and discussion...and it's free for 3 drives. Still thinking about things though
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post #26 of 69
5/5/07 at 5:30am
For media streaming Win XP has worked flawlessly. Actually once the machine gets under major load it's the user experience that suffers first long before the ability to stream. The machine can be very slow from a user perspective while ripping/encoding/streaming while in general network browsing and streaming from a remote is not noticably impacted.

The issue with Unraid and 3 drives is that you lose an entire drive to parity and the parity drive must be >/= to the size of the largest drive in the array. In effect you buy 3 500GB drives and lose 33% to parity (not horrible but not desirable). This loss gets minimized as the array expands. That said, you can test it out and get yourself started then later on add to the array once you are satisfied.
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post #27 of 69
5/7/07 at 1:59am
Thread Starter 
I got my box modded yesterday and have been playing with it ever since. There is a lot to learn and I haven't had much time to play with puters or Xboxes over the last few years, so it's all been a major learning curve. The modder set it all up to boot straight into XBMC so that was pretty cool.

First impressions...Wow!

It didn't take long to figure out without it being connected to a network it is pretty limited, unless you have a honking HD that can store heaps of stuff. I haven't - I did stick an old 30Gb one I had in, but it was pretty obvious early on that it's not big enough. It's also noisy - perhaps even having problems as XBMC has hung a lot of times straight after activating something. I'm going to get a new drive this week and install it.

My next problem is I haven't done any network stuff for about 7 years. Our machines are setup and I haven't needed to change anything, so I found it a major challenge to sort it all out. It took me hours of reading and playing, but finally got the box to recognise the network. Then after some more tinkering I managed to ftp back into the Xbox.

Further tinkering today has yielded a problem in that I can't switch to Library Mode within the "Video" window without hanging that page (Once the switch has occurred you can't do anything in there and it doesn't show any of the content that is there either). You can't switch back to file mode either and the only way to get it back is a reset boot
I found that it works perfectly in the 360 skin, so I don't know what is happening.

My enthusiasm isn't quite as good today. Many hours of tinkering, reading and thinking to try and get it setup like I'd like. So much for working on my server this week

Back to it I guess...
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post #28 of 69
5/7/07 at 6:41am
you'll figure it out.

i'm interested in what kind of PQ this puts out. i'm looking for a DVD server solution, and this looks good, compared to setting up a HTPC to stream from the DVD server.
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post #29 of 69
5/7/07 at 7:53am
My first question would be what version of xbmc did your installer install?

My first recommendation would be to start with something stable the like official 2.01 release and learn XBMC before playing with newer versions.

Sean
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post #30 of 69
5/7/07 at 8:07am
I prefer the dvd qaulity of my xbox 1 running xbmc over my 360. Both using component. The xbox 1 has better blacks and shadows. The 360 needs so much calibrating to get it to where I like it, I usually just end up using the xbox1 instead. Obviously, the 360 does HD much much better. The xbox1 just doesn't have have the cpu/ram to do hdtv well.

If you are not a techy person, do NOT use Linux.Stay away ...far away from Linux. You'll spend more time trying to get little things done in Linux that will take mins to do in Windows. You'll get frustrated and give up. I've used all sorts of machines over the years for my media storage. Anything from a p3 1Ghz with 512 megs of ram, to newer p4's. The XBMC has exceptional streaming capabilites, and you can set the amount of cache for video's and music in XBMC itself via the settings area to improve performance on slower networks. Your network speed is the more important factor here anyways. Your PC is nothing more then a share, it doesn't need to be quick. I do recommend a dedicated PC for this though.

XBMC is really stable for me. Has been rock solid for years. Although I keep up to date with the latest releases.

I do recommend having evox on the machine as well. In case you mess up xbmc trying to set things up, it's good to have a backup dash like evox. Or, get a evox bootable dvd made up and stick that in if you mess up xbmc and can't get into the machine again.

don't forget http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/ as well as xbox-scene for more info as well.

Hang in there, xbmc is simply the best. Nothing else comes close for dvd/sd material, pics and mp3's.
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