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Bitstream vs. Linear PCM - Page 5

post #121 of 654
4/16/08 at 4:42am
It probably just said DTS, not DTS-MA or DTS-HD or wahtever it's supposed to say.
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post #122 of 654
4/16/08 at 7:55am
But guys... what if it is possible?
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post #123 of 654
4/16/08 at 8:47am
I was under the impression that this was an inherent hardware limitation of some sort so that no amount of firmware could change that. But, by all means, folks, try it and make sure.
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post #124 of 654
4/16/08 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigdaddye View Post

since no one has answered the question which is better bit stream or PCM, i will answer it for anyone that wants to know. pcm is better , it is loss less audio and it's the way the original is supposed to sound. typically DD double digital which is sent bit stream is around 600 kb and pcm loss less is usually sent around 5.0+ mbs . the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital, but you must have a receiver that excepts pcm audio like my onkyo tx-sr604. you can clearly hear a difference between DD vs PCM and pcm is better. hope this helps

So would my onkyo tx-674 receiver excepts pcm audio?
Sure hope so.
Thanks
Don
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post #125 of 654
4/16/08 at 9:26am
"accept", and yes.
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post #126 of 654
4/16/08 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I was under the impression that this was an inherent hardware limitation of some sort so that no amount of firmware could change that. But, by all means, folks, try it and make sure.

Optical is obviously capable of sending such a large amount of information, but the PS3 is probably designed so that optical cannot be used by the system to send anything over the 1.5 Mbps DTS, or something around that (which is probably what you were getting at). I assume that whatever general specs are used for optical in DVD players, receivers, etc., is all standardized so that a lossless signal cannot be sent through optical, despite the lack of physical limitations. I suppose they do this ostensibly for copy protection but in reality it must be to sell more receivers.
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post #127 of 654
4/16/08 at 9:40am
The PS3 won't bitstream lossless soundtracks anyway. So you can't do a comparison.
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post #128 of 654
4/16/08 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

Optical is obviously capable of sending such a large amount of information, but the PS3 is probably designed so that optical cannot be used by the system to send anything over the 1.5 Mbps DTS, or something around that (which is probably what you were getting at). I assume that whatever general specs are used for optical in DVD players, receivers, etc., is all standardized so that a lossless signal cannot be sent through optical, despite the lack of physical limitations. I suppose they do this ostensibly for copy protection but in reality it must be to sell more receivers.

Yes, there is a standard that everything with the optical/coax digital connection must meet. That standard does not include any of the lossless codecs and it only allows 2 channels of PCM. If you use the optical (or coax) connection and send bitstream, you can only get the standard lossy codecs. If you have the player decode (or have native PCM) then only 2 channels are being sent, no matter what the original format being decoded is.
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post #129 of 654
4/16/08 at 4:57pm
Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?
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post #130 of 654
4/16/08 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?

Read through this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017825
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post #131 of 654
4/16/08 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.
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post #132 of 654
4/16/08 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.

Mmm- yes it does - with the firmware update it supports 7.1 if your receiver is 7.1 and you have 7.1 speakers connected.
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post #133 of 654
4/16/08 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.

Yes it does, I have PS3 games that are 7.1 pcm (Resistance and Motorstorm for example), also like has been said, the New Line intro is 7.1 as well and that plays fine.
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post #134 of 654
4/16/08 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?


Force 7.1 LPCM in the sound settings by UNCHECKING 5.1LPCM. You do have to remember to switch back for 5.1 movie encodes. Annoying, but it does work as reported by some members.
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post #135 of 654
4/16/08 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by splinters View Post

Optical connection won't change any, so you won't be able to differentiate between the new update for DTS-HD-MA. HDMI is a requirement for any of the lossless audio.

Bitstream would be ideal for optical connection, but your still getting the dts-core and the DD/DD+ which are all lossy audio formats.

Sorry, but you'll have to upgrade your AVR to enjoy the lossless goodness.

-Splints

Thanks for the reply Splints. You explained it perfectly. I didn't like the news, but at least now i understand.

Thanks mate!!
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post #136 of 654
4/21/08 at 11:33am
Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!
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post #137 of 654
4/21/08 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrok View Post

Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!

Are you connected to your 705 via HDMI or optical? You must be connected via HDMI to get the lossless tracks. Also, you may have to go into the disc's "Language" or "Audio" menu and select the PCM track. In the case of TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA you'll have to set the PS3 to LPCM, but if you're playing a PCM track, you can leave the PS3 in bitstream or put it in LPCM.

Hope that helps.
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post #138 of 654
4/21/08 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrok View Post

Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!

I don't have that Blu-Ray, but it sounds like you have everything set up correctly and you just need to select the PCM track from the Blu-Ray disk's menu.
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post #139 of 654
4/21/08 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugg77 View Post

Are you connected to your 705 via HDMI or optical? You must be connected via HDMI to get the lossless tracks. Also, you may have to go into the disc's "Language" or "Audio" menu and select the PCM track. In the case of TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA you'll have to set the PS3 to LPCM, but if you're playing a PCM track, you can leave the PS3 in bitstream or put it in LPCM.

Hope that helps.

Doh, my bad. Yes I have HDMI. Thanks for the info! When I get home from work I will give it a shot! I figured when in LPCM and TrueHD, the PS3 knows to decode the TrueHD ( I hit select in the movie and it showd TrueHD without having to go into any audio submenu's) and send it but I guess thats different with uncompressed PCM. Much appreciated.
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post #140 of 654
4/21/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.


Of course it does as long as you have it outputting via HDMI to a 7.1 reciever! I've been playing GT5: Prologue and Resistance in 7.1 LPCM on my Onkyo 805 and several Blu Rays.

I've only had problems with Pan's Labyrinth can't get the 7.1 DTS HD track to play properly.
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post #141 of 654
5/21/08 at 8:56pm
I have a PS3 (of course) and a Denon AVR-787 reciever. The receiver doesn't have HDMI so I have the HDMI from the PS3 connected directly to the TV, and I have optical from the PS3 to the reciever. I have the PS3 the audio output for the PS3 is set to LPCM. My reciever has no problem getting this signal and spreading it to the 7.1 speakers connected to it. I dont have any BD's because i just bought the PS3 not too long ago, so naturally I watched Spiderman (as it came with it) and I chose 5.1 TrueHD from the disc. The receiver said it was getting LPCM, which is usually 2 CH ( i dont have quams about LPCM my reciver will project 7.1 and i can alwys turn it up a bit more, which by the way LPCM is a better more neater sound and it only seems like is "lower" but if you walk away to another room you will see there isn't much difference between LPCM and Bitstream). but today I was watching Planet Earth standard DVD which is only in DD, though the PS3 is on LPCM output through optical my reciever said it was getting DD at 5.1 extended.

This is where I get confused, if it at LPCM the receiver should say 2CH, and the receiver then would pass it to 7.1 but it came in full 5.1 DD.
What do any of you make of this???


Roberto
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post #142 of 654
5/22/08 at 5:36am
If you use opticle.. you have to use bitstream. Period.
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post #143 of 654
5/22/08 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Hun View Post

If you use opticle.. you have to use bitstream. Period.

you must read my post...
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post #144 of 654
5/22/08 at 5:54am
I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds, but for blu ray I obviously have to let the ps3 decode the new audio codecs, since the ps3 can't bitstream the new codecs, so I switch it to lpcm. I have an onkyo 805 btw.
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post #145 of 654
5/22/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckademic View Post

I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds, but for blu ray I obviously have to let the ps3 decode the new audio codecs, since the ps3 can't bitstream the new codecs, so I switch it to lpcm. I have an onkyo 805 btw.

That is the best way to do it.
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post #146 of 654
5/22/08 at 2:26pm
I just got the new Onkyo 606. Have the PS3 hooked up through HDMI (obviously). Everything through LPCM works as expected (the True HD and DTS MA sound great). But when I switch the HDMI output setting from LPCM to Bitstream in the PS3 sound menu and play a regular DVD, the Digital and DTS logos do not show up on the reciever. It seems like it is still jsut doing the multichannel.

I would like to use the "Late Night" function on regular dolby digital DVD disc - cannot do this with multichannel. I don't understand why switching to bitstream does not seem to work through HDMI. The reciever still says multichannel - even though I have switched it to output bitstream. Has anyone else experienced this? Can anyone with an onkyo receiver verify that they can get bitstream to work over HDMI for just normal Digital tracks?
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post #147 of 654
5/22/08 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckademic View Post

I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds

Is the difference that noticeable? I'm buying my first receiver this weekend to stimulate the economy. I was planning on LPCM everything via HDMI.
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post #148 of 654
5/22/08 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughvh View Post

Is the difference that noticeable? I'm buying my first receiver this weekend to stimulate the economy. I was planning on LPCM everything via HDMI.

Not really, but dts 6.1 would get pushed out as 5.1 lpcm, you're better off letting your reciever do what it's good at, and only put the ps3 in lpcm for the movies that use dolby trueHD and DTS:MA.
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post #149 of 654
5/22/08 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK89 View Post

I just got the new Onkyo 606. Have the PS3 hooked up through HDMI (obviously). Everything through LPCM works as expected (the True HD and DTS MA sound great). But when I switch the HDMI output setting from LPCM to Bitstream in the PS3 sound menu and play a regular DVD, the Digital and DTS logos do not show up on the reciever. It seems like it is still jsut doing the multichannel.

I would like to use the "Late Night" function on regular dolby digital DVD disc - cannot do this with multichannel. I don't understand why switching to bitstream does not seem to work through HDMI. The reciever still says multichannel - even though I have switched it to output bitstream. Has anyone else experienced this? Can anyone with an onkyo receiver verify that they can get bitstream to work over HDMI for just normal Digital tracks?

I just tried it again and I was wrong, it does work with DVDs (maybe it needed to reboot or something after I had made the change to bitstream from LPCM in the menu). But I still cannot get the dolby digital track to bitstream when playing something that is streamed to the PS3 using TVersity. It seems like it still just leaves it as multichannel when using Tversity (using an Onkyo 606)? Is there anyone using TVersity that can send a bitstream over HDMI using an HDMI receiver (like onkyo 606)?

edit- I also just noticed that PS3 games no longer bitstream dolby digital using HDMI but they do when using optical (streaming videos with TVersity has the same issue). So the receiver just says Multichannel and a lot of times only outputs 2 channel (while playing mp3s over TVersity for instance) when connected via HDMI. The receiver cannot use pro logic with HDMI but can do so with optical connection, I guess this is the problem. Anyone else notice this?
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post #150 of 654
5/22/08 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK89 View Post

I just tried it again and I was wrong, it does work with DVDs (maybe it needed to reboot or something after I had made the change to bitstream from LPCM in the menu). But I still cannot get the dolby digital track to bitstream when playing something that is streamed to the PS3 using TVersity. It seems like it still just leaves it as multichannel when using Tversity (using an Onkyo 606)? Is there anyone using TVersity that can send a bitstream over HDMI using an HDMI receiver (like onkyo 606)?

edit- I also just noticed that PS3 games no longer bitstream dolby digital using HDMI but they do when using optical (streaming videos with TVersity has the same issue). So the receiver just says Multichannel and a lot of times only outputs 2 channel (while playing mp3s over TVersity for instance) when connected via HDMI. The receiver cannot use pro logic with HDMI but can do so with optical connection, I guess this is the problem. Anyone else notice this?

Edit your audio options in your PS3 and do manual setup (HDMI) and make sure "Dolby Digital" is checked.
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