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Bitstream vs. Linear PCM - Page 22

post #631 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Correct. Bits are bits, you either get them or you don't. But I wonder if something is set on that port on your receiver that's causing it. That's why I'd think trying another port would be a good idea.

I'll be trying all suggestions after I get back from my trip this weekend, I appreciate the suggestions, and hopefully the issue gets resolved.

I did have to hard reset my receiver a couple of weeks ago because video was not being output for reasons I don't know why but everything seemed to be working fine, minus the issues with the audio in the PS3. So the port may not be totally "agreeing" with the signal input for the port of the PS3 now for who knows why. Just one of those things I suppose....
post #632 of 664
I'm in the boat where bitstream sounds better. I have a PS3 Slim with a Yamaha RX-A810 and when pkaying How to Train Your Dragon the sound was much louder and the LFE in the bass was deeper and more punch. I have ARX3 main speakers, ARX2 center, ARX1 surround with a HSU VTF3 MK4 sub.
post #633 of 664
audiophiles will tell you the 8db increase doesn't mean "better".

Just turn up the volume. You can add 108db if needed ;-)
post #634 of 664
All this talk of loudness has got me confused. Some people are saying PCM sounds louder, others are saying bitstream is louder. I have to watch movies on a TV with one speaker, so audio quality is not a major issue for me, but if "louder" means that clipping and distortion is being introduced then it's a problem.

I'm also wondering, if a 5.1 soundtrack is being funnelled into one speaker, would that cause distortion, or does the TV/PS3 have ways of handling it?
post #635 of 664
So I spent the weekend trading PS3's with my folks (my old, 60-gig fat PS3 for their newer slim) and even though this has been beaten to death, the audio does certainly seem to sound better.

For reference, my AVR is a Pioneer VSX-50 and is quite good at switching between formats. I am running bitstream (I ran LPCM on the fat).

I was just wondering if anyone else had a similar experience or traded up machines and felt the same way.
post #636 of 664
I had 2 phats, now have 2 slims. Sound is exactly the same, and I have a fairly nice home theater setup (Pio 1021, Boston Acoustic mains, Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, etc.) Placebo effect at best. Maybe it's just that you can HEAR the audio now instead of the old phat's fan!
post #637 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I had 2 phats, now have 2 slims. Sound is exactly the same, and I have a fairly nice home theater setup (Pio 1021, Boston Acoustic mains, Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, etc.) Placebo effect at best. Maybe it's just that you can HEAR the audio now instead of the old phat's fan!

Possibly. I also think I have auto surround set on the Pioneer.
post #638 of 664
Like another gentleman said, you need to make sure your amp is set up properly and recognizes all 7.1 speakers, then when you go into audio settings on your PS3, click the "automatic" option. The HDMI standard that all these devices use (few exceptions perhaps), provide two way communication between devices so they can recognize each other and whether they are compliant. What also happens is, much like a handshake between other commonly networked devices (i.e. pc's, phones, routers, etc.), is they share pertinent info needed to work together as well as possible. So, when you choose the "automatic" option, your ps3 will ask the connected device it's state and settings and the ps3 will set itself to output what will give the connection the most functionality. This is what you should do. Now, you WILL be stuck with the format that your source material provides, which is most commonly 2ch or 5.1. HOWEVER, when watching movies, if you choose to output "bitstream", which is in the "video settings" area, your AV reciever can often up-mix 2ch audio into 5.1 and 5.1 into 6.1/7.1 from many of the popular DTS/Dolby formats, provided the source material uses it. (which it almost always does nowadays).

Video games are a different beast entirely and while they command a truly prolific market share of media, their audio standards are various. you should almost always expect LPCM output from games to be safe.

If you are interested in a super high quality 2ch stereophile experience from your ps3, you might also try to set audio settings to ouput from both the HDMI and the SCART/analog output connector that came with your ps3. Connect the 2ch analog outputs to your favorite input on your favorite pre-amp or reciever using your favorite cables and go from there. Make sure you select the proper input on your reciever as the HDMI will not be used in this case. The reason for this... it is from this output that you will get the highest 2ch sample rate/size you can get from the ps3. why this is I admit I am not sure. Give it a shot.
post #639 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I had 2 phats, now have 2 slims. Sound is exactly the same, and I have a fairly nice home theater setup (Pio 1021, Boston Acoustic mains, Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, etc.) Placebo effect at best. Maybe it's just that you can HEAR the audio now instead of the old phat's fan!

Agreed. And I have that same receiver and sub. smile.gif I even used to have Boston mains, but they've been moved to my computer's sound system. Not that there is anything wrong with my Bostons, they are wonderful, but I got new mains and I work from home, so using the Bostons in here.
post #640 of 664
I've got an Onkyo 905, and it sounds better letting the Onkyo do the decoding when playing DVDs (set to Bitstream). When I say better, the surround sound it more pronounced. So it's not just the Yamahas.

I switch back to Linear PCM to get the full 7.1 on BluRay.
post #641 of 664
One thing to keep in mind is some Blu Rays are now experencing audio dropouts when bitstreaming (read the Finding Nemo thread over in the Blu Ray section ) seems like LPCM solves the issue - MOST OF THE TIME !
post #642 of 664
The only issue with an audio dropout was the new Total Recall, never had any issues with finding nemo or any other film bitstreaming
post #643 of 664
Sorry I don't think I could go through all the post's and I apologize if this issue has been discussed.
What provide's better Sound Quality,analogue or HDMI for Bitstream and LPCM?
I own Denon AVR-2808 and planing on getting an oppo player either 103 or 105 depending on the SQ,because the 105 has a better DAC's than my AVR so when connected via analogue I don't know if it will enhance the SQ but I know I'll lose Audyssey,Room EQ,Post Processing e.g,DTS neo X,DD pro logic....................
At the momint I'm using a PS3,It's on Bitstram and the AVR is set on Auto (I think,didn't check of a while)But the AVR isnshowing multi-channel on the screen instead of DTS or DD because the PS3 isn't able to send them bitstream.
So to sum it up,Any advice's on what player should I go for and how to set it up?
post #644 of 664
"What provide's better Sound Quality,analogue or HDMI for Bitstream and LPCM?"

You want to keep everything digital to the receiver. Don't convert to 8-channel analog at the source.

In addition, HDMI intends for everything to be decoded at the source and sent to the playback device in an uncompressed format. Ideally you want your PS3 set to Linear PCM and outputting over HDMI. Changing to any other Bluray player will not change the audio quality for the better.
post #645 of 664
Wow. Good answer darklordjames !

So what you are saying is the decoding on AVRs is for legacy things that arent HDMI.

Someday far in the future when we all have 4k TVs, our AVRs will strictly be amps.
post #646 of 664
I don't see why it would matter either way. Either your transmitting an lossless digital signal to be decoded by the AVR. Or you're decoding it on the PS3 and then transmitting an uncompressed digital signal. The end result should be bit perfect either way, and your AVR is doing the digital/analog conversion either way as well.

I go with bitstream just so I can glance at the AVR and see whether or not I'm getting lossless, since some movies default to the lossy codecs.
post #647 of 664
Bit streaming removes the ability for the source device to do any sort of mixing. This means broken audio and in extreme cases, broken special features.

If bit streaming was never introduced, then Blurays would be allowed to do much cooler audio layering in their special features. As it is, nobody wants a bunch of "My special features have no sound!!1" support calls. In effect, bit streaming has actively made our Bluray experience worse as nobody even attempts to do cool layering or mixing of audio in their Blurays. Marketing convinced everyone that bit streaming is a good idea so that they could sell some new receivers to people that already had 8-channel LPCM HDMI receivers. The result is the destruction of potential.
post #648 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

Bit streaming removes the ability for the source device to do any sort of mixing. This means broken audio and in extreme cases, broken special features.

If bit streaming was never introduced, then Blurays would be allowed to do much cooler audio layering in their special features. As it is, nobody wants a bunch of "My special features have no sound!!1" support calls. In effect, bit streaming has actively made our Bluray experience worse as nobody even attempts to do cool layering or mixing of audio in their Blurays. Marketing convinced everyone that bit streaming is a good idea so that they could sell some new receivers to people that already had 8-channel LPCM HDMI receivers. The result is the destruction of potential.

I think theyre already doing a fantastic job of actively making the bluray experience as bad as possible. Ive seen some special features that mention bitstreaming can break the audio, so those features are getting made regardless.
post #649 of 664
I have a Samsung bdp 1580 that will only decode two channel over an optical iinput. My Denon 2805 receiver then decodes it into dolby pro logic two or dts neo. This is ok but not ideal as I dont have hdmi on the receiver.
However I also have a Sony BDP S 550 that outputs Dolbly Digital and DTS over a coaial input where the sound is far more superior to the Samsung and sounds even better than my Denon 2903 dvd player with dvds. By right s it should not. But it does.
I have yet to hook up multi channel from the Sony to the Denon 2805. That was , however, the reason for buying the Sony because I was not happy with the sound of the Samsung. Yes they are both old models. I purchased the Sony from ebay for only £26 as I wanted to find out if I would hear a difference in sound quality between the two before purchasing a newer model. What I will say is they both deliver superb picture quality!
post #650 of 664
Bitstream all the way, just send the signal raw to the receiver/tv and enjoy the sound as the engineers intended, if the signal is DTS, Dolby, or plain stereo, enjoy as it goes.
post #651 of 664
Please be gentle for I'm not an audiophile. I just purchased the YHT-397 with HTR-3065 Receiver from Yamaha. I've always had a Soundbar with Active Sub and PS3 set to Bitstream over optical to the soundbar. The sound was never a problem and it sounded great. Sometimes the speaker would rattle from distortions so I finally broke down and bought the 5.1 channel system from Yamaha. I set the PS3 to Linear PCM and the only complaint is it seems like it's not as loud as my soundbar was. PS3 is original 60 Gig connected to Receiver via HDMI. Could this be from the LPCM vs. Bitstream that my system doesn't sound as loud as a tiny soundbar?
post #652 of 664
Try turning up the volume. Then it should be louder.
post #653 of 664
Not sure if OT or not.
Do AVRs generally perform room correction on PCM (Linear) audio?
This may have an influence on whether you'd want to output bitstream or PCM.

If room correction is only applied when the AVR is performing the decoding, bitstream may be a more desirable output.
post #654 of 664
Yes, they do. It's not like multi channel analog in of old receivers.
post #655 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmcl View Post

I've got an Onkyo 905, and it sounds better letting the Onkyo do the decoding when playing DVDs (set to Bitstream). When I say better, the surround sound it more pronounced. So it's not just the Yamahas.

I experienced the same using an Onkyo 805. Bitstream seems louder and more dynamic, at least on the latest Transformers and Batman BD.
post #656 of 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interspy24 View Post

I experienced the same using an Onkyo 805. Bitstream seems louder and more dynamic, at least on the latest Transformers and Batman BD.

I'm afraid you're mistaken as the The Dark Knight Rises has no dynamics. biggrin.gif
post #657 of 664
Wow... well it's safe to say that I had NO idea what I'd be opening myself up to when I decided to finally upgrade my receiver. smile.gif

I've got a PS3 slim, and just recently retired my Denon AVR-3803 in favor of a Yamaha RX-A1030. Since the Denon didn't have HDMI, I had audio running through optical and was generally happy with the results. (I've got a 5.1 setup.)

I was confused about why the receiver only ever showed PCM for the audio decoder, started poking around, and found this thread. I really like the ability to see exactly what the receiver is... uhh... receiving for signal, so I guess I'll go the bitstream route and see how it goes.

I guess I'm just really rather amazed at how complicated the situation is....
post #658 of 664
And there is no reason it should be. smile.gif
post #659 of 664
sorry for ressurecting this thread again. I must be half retarded because I still dont know how i should have my system setup. I dont have one of those expensive fancy recievers you guys have. I just have a piece of **** soundbar (sony ht-c260) because i dont want to disturb my neighbors with a big bad boomy 5.1 system rockin the entire apartment complex. so from my understanding its not a true 5.1 surround so do i use bitstream ? My TV is new (Vizio M-series 55") and i believe it can pass 5.1 anyway. ill be using the TV as a switcher and run an optical audio cable from my soundbar to TV. what would be the best settings to use while watching cable TV ? while playing PS3 ? while watching a blu ray on my PS3 ? Thanks for helping out a noob.
Edited by gepetto420 - 8/7/13 at 11:22am
post #660 of 664
I don't think you'll hear a difference from using optical or RCA on your soundbar.

RCA may solve the slightest of latancy issues if sounds are outta sync.
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