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The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 78

post #2311 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Since the ceiling is 8 feet high and I'll be placing the speakers behind the screen, I'd need to cover top and bottom with dark black cloth that has to to acoustically transparent. Any advice which one I should use?
Thanks.

I can't really help there. Are your speakers really going to extend above the screen, or only below it?

Also since the edges of the screen will be very close to the side walls, you should consider treating those side walls in black velvet or such. Otherwise you will wash out the image with light reflected off the walls and back on to the screen.
post #2312 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Sorry. My current screen is 130" 16:9 ratio. Currently I'm sitting 13 feet away from the sceen.
What difference would that be?

One of my concern is that my room is 142" wide wall to wall. After putting a frame (6 inches), I get 134" (give or take) wide screen. I am a little concern if its going to be overwhelming??

If your image is really close to the side walls make sure they are painted really DARK or covered in dark fabric, as they will reflect the image back onto the screen and reduce your blacks.
I have an XD AT screen and I just love it!
Mine is 145" dia. scope and I use the JVC X95 with it, I have more than enough lumens on the screen. I don't think you could find a better AT screen for the same price or more.
post #2313 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I didn't read the specs but I just turned on the projector and using Full Wide zoom (its a 2.35:1 aspect ratio) and I could zoom it out way beyond the total width of the wall. This not only showed that I can zoom it but also gave me a clue how the image would look like and I liked it. It was still hard to clearly see since its very light image beyond the screen on the wall but still I got the idea of how its going to look :-)

Since the ceiling is 8 feet high and I'll be placing the speakers behind the screen, I'd need to cover top and bottom with dark black cloth that has to to acoustically transparent. Any advice which one I should use?
Thanks.
Black speaker grill cloth from parts express is a cheap option to place above and below the screen.

http://www.parts-express.com/search.aspx?N=4294967118%204294963603&Nrs=collection()/record[endeca:matches(.,%22P_PortalID%22,%221%22)%20and%20endeca:matches(.,%22P_Searchable%22,%221%22)]&Ntt=Grill**&Ntx=mode%20matchall&PortalID=1&showMoreIds=10025&tahead=t

Gullifords of Maine fabric is popular, but I believe it is more expensive.
post #2314 of 2609
has anyone switched from a vutec silverstar to this screen material? I am thinking about going with a screen wall in my new theater which would not work with my current screen. I really like the brightness of my current 2.35 115" diagonal screen (using it with a JVC RS45). Am wondering what I would be sacrificing going with the center stage XD material. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
post #2315 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Black speaker grill cloth from parts express is a cheap option to place above and below the screen.

http://www.parts-express.com/search.aspx?N=4294967118%204294963603&Nrs=collection()/record[endeca:matches(.,%22P_PortalID%22,%221%22)%20and%20endeca:matches(.,%22P_Searchable%22,%221%22)]&Ntt=Grill**&Ntx=mode%20matchall&PortalID=1&showMoreIds=10025&tahead=t

Gullifords of Maine fabric is popular, but I believe it is more expensive.
No need for AT fabric surrounding the screen. Your sound is coming from directly behind the screen, not around it. A popular choice for surrounding the screen is a black velvet. Syfabrics and Joannes are great places to pick it up. That is my project for the Thanksgiving weekend.
post #2316 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

No need for AT fabric surrounding the screen. Your sound is coming from directly behind the screen, not around it. A popular choice for surrounding the screen is a black velvet. Syfabrics and Joannes are great places to pick it up. That is my project for the Thanksgiving weekend.

I have 2 floor speakers. When I place them behind the screen, are you suggesting that I sould place standing flood such that their drivers are above screen base. In other words, if screen base is 3 feet from floor, the speaker drivers should be above 3 feet?

What about subwoofer? I am planning to place it behind the screen as well.
post #2317 of 2609
Quote:
Also since the edges of the screen will be very close to the side walls, you should consider treating those side walls in black velvet or such. Otherwise you will wash out the image with light reflected off the walls and back on to the screen.
Quote:
If your image is really close to the side walls make sure they are painted really DARK or covered in dark fabric, as they will reflect the image back onto the screen and reduce your blacks.
I have an XD AT screen and I just love it!
Mine is 145" dia. scope and I use the JVC X95 with it, I have more than enough lumens on the screen. I don't think you could find a better AT screen for the same price or more.


Both are great points. I'm building 2 frames. One for the screen and one that will hold the screen frame. Screen frame will have 3 inches border all around with Black Velvet tape around it. Screen frame will be 141" wide and total space I have available is 142". I'm leaving one inch to move the frame in the room.

2nd image on this link is the one I'm going to build that will hold the screen frame. http://www.seymourav.com/installsfixedDIY.asp
I still need to figure out how I can put the screen frame on this main frame yet. As you can see in the image, there will be top and bottom section that I will cover with black cloth.
post #2318 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I have 2 floor speakers. When I place them behind the screen, are you suggesting that I sould place standing flood such that their drivers are above screen base. In other words, if screen base is 3 feet from floor, the speaker drivers should be above 3 feet?

What about subwoofer? I am planning to place it behind the screen as well.

That is why you want AT material on the entire front screen wall. If you have Bass traps and such back their it is even more important.
post #2319 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I have 2 floor speakers. When I place them behind the screen, are you suggesting that I sould place standing flood such that their drivers are above screen base. In other words, if screen base is 3 feet from floor, the speaker drivers should be above 3 feet?

What about subwoofer? I am planning to place it behind the screen as well.
Yes. Common practice is for the tweeters to be on the horizontal center line of the screen. Your goal should be to have all LCR speakers completely behind the AT screen. You may need to build/buy some stands to get them to the correct height. There are some pics of the stands I built in my thread. Pretty ugly, but they disappeared completely when I draped some black fabric over them. What speakers do you have?

The sub will not be affected by a velvet covered fabric panel. You need mass to dampen the low frequencies. They will blow right through the velvet.
post #2320 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

Yes. Common practice is for the tweeters to be on the horizontal center line of the screen. Your goal should be to have all LCR speakers completely behind the AT screen. You may need to build/buy some stands to get them to the correct height. There are some pics of the stands I built in my thread. Pretty ugly, but they disappeared completely when I draped some black fabric over them. What speakers do you have?

The sub will not be affected by a velvet covered fabric panel. You need mass to dampen the low frequencies. They will blow right through the velvet.

I have Klipsch Reference speakers
L/R Speakers: RF-82 (http://www.klipsch.com/rf-82-ii-floorstanding-speaker)
Center Speaker: RC-62 (http://www.klipsch.com/rc-62-ii-center-speaker)
Quote:
You may need to build/buy some stands to get them to the correct height.

I understand that for central speakers but aren't Floor speakers already high enough?
post #2321 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

Yes. Common practice is for the tweeters to be on the horizontal center line of the screen.

Common practice is to have the tweeters at ear level
post #2322 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I have Klipsch Reference speakers
L/R Speakers: RF-82 (http://www.klipsch.com/rf-82-ii-floorstanding-speaker)
Center Speaker: RC-62 (http://www.klipsch.com/rc-62-ii-center-speaker)
I understand that for central speakers but aren't Floor speakers already high enough?
Nice choice. Since those are 43.5" tall, it wouldn't take much to get that horn up to the mid-line of the screen. I'm no expert by any stretch, and I know there are people out there who use floor standing towers and have good performance. I'm only going off of my experience with my HT and the recommendations and plans that I got from the Erskine Group. Plans called for the tweeters to be on the horizontal mid-line of the screen, and was not speaker dependent as I didn't know what speakers I would be using at that time.
post #2323 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

Common practice is to have the tweeters at ear level
Very true. In HT's with more than one row however, there is more than one ear level (that's about a 13" height difference in my case). I'm guessing that is part of the reason why mine were spec'd at mid-line. Also depends on the mounted screen height, and where that center line would be in relation to the seating area. Lots of variables to take into consideration that can drive one to drink (short trip for me rolleyes.gif). Another reason I like to recommend the layout service from AVS or EG. Takes some of the guess work out of the equation.
post #2324 of 2609
Does anyone have any idea how I can mount a frame on this
http://www.seymourav.com/installsfixedDIY.asp

My idea is to build the frame first for the screen and then use another frame (top link) and mount the screen frame on it. I just can't get how to mount the screen frame on that base frame. Any idea guys?
post #2325 of 2609
I just used z clamps from HD check my signature. I am going to build panels around it.
post #2326 of 2609
The audiophile practice is to have the tweeters at ear level and most premium speakers are designed that way. Cinema sound can be a bit higher, possibly up to tweeters at center line. If your speakers are taller and you'd like to get most or all of their lower frequency drivers behind the screen, then the tweeters could be quite high. I'd consider the mid-point the max height, otherwise the sound stage can sound too elevated. Another trick is to 180 your speakers, in effect hanging them upside down, if this gets the tweeters/mids more in that usually-sweet lower third of the screen. No one will see them, so you can focus on what sounds best. Also affecting the height of the sound stage is whether or not you have multiple rows. If so, go higher, if not, go closer to ear level.

Stewart says a lot of things about woven screens that are either conditionally true or are deeply arguable. Their "conclusion" on light scatter was completely paid for and "tested" on the thickest, most coarse weave available. And while gain is sometimes beneficial, if the screen is to be a unity-gain Lambertian surface, quality woven screens exhibit much better uniformity than their coated screens with holes. We'll simply continue replacing their holy screens while they keep patting themselves on the back.

Cheers,
Chris
post #2327 of 2609
A friend of mine is more into the commercial side of the AV business (design, AV calibration, etc.) and always touted the Stewart line of screens. He kept telling me that there were just too may comprises being made with woven screens. Long story short, he's been over several times now and he is just blown away with the sound quality, soundstage and picture quality. He now has a different opinion of woven screens. tongue.gif

-- Bill --
post #2328 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post

I just used z clamps from HD check my signature. I am going to build panels around it.

Can you please explain a bit more? I googled for z clamps but couldn't find it. What is Z clamp?
post #2329 of 2609
Two strips of metal that are sort of bent at a 30 degree angle. One side screws to screen the other screws on to the minimalist wall. The screen clips slide over the one on the wall and they sort of form a z when they slide together
Edited by cw5billwade - 11/29/13 at 7:29am
post #2330 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post

Two strips of metal that are sort of bet at a 30 degree angle. One side screws to screen the other screws on to the minimalist wall. The screen clips slide over the one on the wall and they sort of form a z when slide together

The other name for these are "French cleats"

Example: http://t.homedepot.com/p/OOK-Hangman-13-Piece-French-Cleat-Picture-Hanger-Kit-with-Wall-Dogs-55312/202341625?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-202341625&skwcid&kwd=&ci_sku=202341625&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969
post #2331 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

The audiophile practice is to have the tweeters at ear level and most premium speakers are designed that way. Cinema sound can be a bit higher, possibly up to tweeters at center line. If your speakers are taller and you'd like to get most or all of their lower frequency drivers behind the screen, then the tweeters could be quite high. I'd consider the mid-point the max height, otherwise the sound stage can sound too elevated. Another trick is to 180 your speakers, in effect hanging them upside down, if this gets the tweeters/mids more in that usually-sweet lower third of the screen. No one will see them, so you can focus on what sounds best. Also affecting the height of the sound stage is whether or not you have multiple rows. If so, go higher, if not, go closer to ear level.

Stewart says a lot of things about woven screens that are either conditionally true or are deeply arguable. Their "conclusion" on light scatter was completely paid for and "tested" on the thickest, most coarse weave available. And while gain is sometimes beneficial, if the screen is to be a unity-gain Lambertian surface, quality woven screens exhibit much better uniformity than their coated screens with holes. We'll simply continue replacing their holy screens while they keep patting themselves on the back.

Cheers,
Chris

FWIW...from another thread in Screens...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Professional cinemas place the horn at 2/3rds from the bottom of the screen, aimed toward 2/3rds back in the cinema.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Thanks...so you suggest positioning higher like that and aiming down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Yes, on the height because the speaker will "voice" from the near the center of the screen. The slight extra height is to help with sightline to seats deeper in the room. With regards to aiming, that depends on your room (one or more rows) and the dispersion characteristics of your speakers. If you only have one row, definately aim it down as necessary to cover your area. (EDIT: This tilt downward should be rather mild if your screen is installed at a reasonable height.) If you have a second row, split the difference so that each row is within the coverage of your speaker(s).

If you haven't already read this, I highly recommend you do. It's a superb primer on the subject. Scroll down to where it begins to discuss speakers. http://www.seymourav.com/screens.asp

Good luck. smile.gif

Depending on the speaker design, most well-designed speakers will "voice" in a manner that makes picking out the height of the tweeter verses the mid-range difficult, if even possible. The Tannoys' concentric design will be a "point source." The Klipsch KL-525 and KL-650 have the unique side by side configuration of horn and vertically aligned woofers. The JTR 212 is the only "home" speaker I know of that is very wide range from its horn (>400 Hz). All would excel behind a good AT screen like Chris'.
Edited by Cam Man - 11/30/13 at 1:15pm
post #2332 of 2609
This is what Dolby says about speaker positioning in commercial theatres, with diagrams:

http://jimmy.thomas.free.fr/DOC/cinema/Dolby-Atmos-Cinema-Technical-Guidelines.pdf

Gary
post #2333 of 2609
post #2334 of 2609
Yes, if you're building a 200 seat theater, you can go higher than 1/2 up the image. The first few rows are abusive, however.

Cheers,
Chris
post #2335 of 2609
Greetings All. I'm thinking of getting a schneider anamorphic lens to go with my centre stage xd 110" wide 2.37 screen and JVC RS55 projector with a 15ft throw. I have seen the lens in action so I'm keen to get one however my screen isn't curved. Can I use the my existing screen material and just order the curved frame from Seymour screens?
post #2336 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by tydilee View Post

Greetings All. I'm thinking of getting a schneider anamorphic lens to go with my centre stage xd 110" wide 2.37 screen and JVC RS55 projector with a 15ft throw. I have seen the lens in action so I'm keen to get one however my screen isn't curved. Can I use the my existing screen material and just order the curved frame from Seymour screens?

If you want to go for a fixed curved frame and reuse your material, I'd recommend returning your material for us to trim and grommet, as this seems most efficient to do here at the shop.

Cheers,
Chris
post #2337 of 2609
Greetings Chris

Thanks for the reply and for the screen. I've had it for a year and just recently installed it but it was worth the wait. It's a great product and everyone who has seen it is very impressed. I'm doing things a little backward as I was always interested in a Schneider anamorphic lens but didn't want to commit to the expense without seeing one in action. This proved to be mission impossible in the UK hence I bought the flat screen 2.37 ratio hoping to use the zoom method. Then several months after I managed to find a retailer who had one in stock on demo and now I'm a believer as they say. Anyway, I was hoping I could just get a flat curved screen of roughly the same dimension but I'm assuming from your answer it's a little more complicated than I anticipated. Posting from and to the London UK might not be cost effective and I might be better of getting an entire new screen and material altogether. Is there no other option or way to use my existing screen material with a flat curved frame even if means a reduction or increase in size? What exactly is the problem? Is the trimming and grommet on a curved screen material different than that of a flat screen material? Thanks in advance for any advise you can give.
post #2338 of 2609
Finally after putting a lot of hours, I was able to put the screen to the test yesterday. Its 141" wide and 164 high screen including borders. Excluding borders, its 134" wide and 57" high screen. The screen is almost hugging the side walls. When I was testing it, I saw the light being reflected back to the side walls, ceiling walls and the floor as well. It was visible enough. As of now, I don't have any Black Velvet fabric on the borders since I'm still waiting for the Velvet tape to arrive, but even if I were to install it on all the borders of screen, would it stop the reflection completely on the walls? If not then what is it I'd have to do to make sure no light is visible beyond the screen?
Thx.
post #2339 of 2609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

This is what Dolby says about speaker positioning in commercial theatres, with diagrams:

http://jimmy.thomas.free.fr/DOC/cinema/Dolby-Atmos-Cinema-Technical-Guidelines.pdf

Gary

Thank you for posting. I haven't visted an official recommendation like this in a long time...but I'm glad to see that I hadn't missed any changes. My paraphrased descriptions regarding aiming are almost identical in content to that descibed in the paragraph on aiming.

From past readings for which I cannot remember the source, the point of the higher than center positioning of the screen speakers was to place the acoustic center of the speakers where they would be in nominal association with on-screen spoken dialogue. I follow that logic in the home environment.
post #2340 of 2609
We did nothing but watch movies this week. smile.gif My son came down from West VA and said no need to go to the theater anymore. rolleyes.gif The sound from the Denon X4000 is just flat out the best I have heard and compares to the theaters for sure. The sound just comes right out of the AT screen and the sound image is in a word awesome. Every time my son who lives here in GA wants to watch a movie it has to be in 3D. cool.gif We just love our theater with my Seymour 125" wide AT 1.3 gain Center Stage screen with the Panasonic AE-8000 in 2D is amazing biggrin.gif and 3D is like right there in your face. eek.gif I have a 17' throw and sit 10'6" for first row and 16' for second row. I cannot see any weave tongue.gif

Thanks Chriss and Jon for all your help
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