The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 14

I don't know about this moire thing. I have a large piece of scrap I'm going to mount up and not do any tilt and see how it looks. It's tough to figure out based upon a little piece of scrap. I read through your thread...I never thought about moving my projector either. Maybe I'll try that too.

Thanks!

yourtoys7 -

Unfortunately you ordered material from a different source, where they have zero expertise in home theater, and you paid more. I go to considerable effort and cost to offer expertise and send out samples for everyone so that they have images they can be proud of. Even if other places were less expensive, it's never a good deal if the end result is no good.

In your case, the XD won't solve your issues because while it requires less rotation to alleviate moire issues, the current 63" roll size won't fit enough tilt for an Epson, one of the projectors sensitive to moire. For the standard Center Stage material, a 16 degree tilt would work perfectly, which we can supply already precision cut to size and angle so you can easily install it and know it works. For the XD, likely about 10 degrees if I were to guess, but since I couldn't accommodate that it's a moot point for now.

To emphasize for the rest of the folks, moire isn't an issue with our material when it's applied how we advise. I can count on one of my high school shop teacher's hands how many customers I have out there with any issues at all. And every single one of them have either been fixed or are waiting on the XD to come out in the larger size so they can grab those improvements, too.

Cheers,
Chris

Pretty funny right there.

I played around with the material some more last night (as well as zooming the projector in and out, and noticed a couple of things.

1) I can see the moire pattern rotate as I zoom in and out. Kind of an interesting effect. The only way I could get a grasp on the moire is to zoom my image down to about a 70" wide screen.

2) I finally got rid of moire once I tilted my sample to probably about 35*. I can't wait for the new wide material!

Yes, 70" wide is below what we typically recommend for image size, although it can be successfully done. It just takes samples, plenty of tilt, and for that size we can even tilt the XD in it's currently-limited roll width. Due to its ability to handle higher pixel densities, we've successfully applied the XD to a screen as small as 55" wide.

Hey guys, I'm looking for help hooking the SeymourAV screen I'm about to get from Chris up to an Insteon switch so I can control it along with my lighting. I'd like to press the "Watch Movie" button and have the lights dim and the screen drop...

I posted over in the home automation forum, but thought I'd cross-post here for interest and in case any of you had suggestions. Thanks!

SeymourAV Screen Control w/ Insteon, Help Requested

Hey mkanter -

Perhaps others more familiar with the Insteon products can fill in from that side, but I'll outline your options from my side.

First, if you want to tie screen control into anything else (switches, universal remotes, macros, triggers, iPhone, etc.) you will NOT want the RF-only option (motor code "U" or "V"). With that option you get two dedicated, addressed RF remotes and while it's the most simple and popular solution, it doesn't enable automation.

To tie into automation, there are several paths in increasingly rare order:
* IR: Both the 4-wire control box and Somfy motors can be IR controlled, and with receivers included in your macros. The Gen4 even has several different types of IR receivers. Tying an IR receiver to an IR repeater is easy.
* Dry contact: There are dry contact inputs on the 4-wire control box and the Somfy wall switch. They look for momentary contact, <0.5 seconds, that can be provided via relay closure.
* Gen4 special order product: We have a Z-Wave version of the control box, or can order interfaces for Ethernet, RS-232, or RS-422 using Serial ASCII strings.
* Somfy special order product: In addition, the Somfy motor can be controlled by adding one of their pricey interfaces. This can get you into RS-485, RS-232, Ethernet, or Wi-Fi control.

I'll copy into the other thread in case someone has something insightful and/or really sarcastic to say.

Cheers,
Chris

Chris,
With the motors, does the user set how far down the screen goes (and repeat this length of drop automatically every time)? Or is it just either retracted or fully down? Put another way, if the user wants the screen bottom at a particular height off the floor, can it only be done by carefully mounting the case at the correct height?

If I go the DIY route, is it possible to attach velcro or something similar to the screen material without damaging it when pulling it taut - in particular the adhesive backed "Reclosable Fasteners" from 3M as in this PDF? My thinking is that this way I would be able to adjust the tensioning of the screen easily if I don't get it right initially (almost a certainty).

I learnt this the hard way. I had very little expertise in screens and have the 1080UB. I got the standard tilt and there was some serious moire happening. Chris replaced the screen without a hitch which in and of itself has made me a customer for life, I must say. Show me anyone else who does that...

I got the replacement with more tilt, got it mounted this weekend and all I can say is... WOW. On the 1080UB there isn't an ounce of moire and the picture is WAY sharper than it was because of the extra tilt. I recommend people get samples before ordering. I'll be making Chris's samples my first check when looking at new projectors as well in the future.

Loving my screen Chris...

I'd like us to be 95% responsible for setting the drop. The closer you can nail that dimension exactly, the better I can maximize the tension cable angle off the top set of tabs. I anchor the cables with little to no extra length (0-2" extra drop than you ordered - max), because mounting the cables to the nearest available anchors will maximize the angle and tension on the top tabs.

The customer can more easily shorten the down-drop limit, obviously, but again that top cable angle is maximized at the ordered dimension here.

The RF-only folks can electronically reprogram the limits using a remote and the programming flow chart in the manual. The 4-wire folks can mechanically adjust the limits with an included tool. The Somfy folks can electronically adjust the limits with the Somfy wall switch. The manual is overdue for updating with the new motor types and controls.

If you go DIY, one option we do is stitch a full perimeter of 1.5" black Velcro and include the hook. While I firstly recommend staples or splining (it's cheap and easy), having Velcro stitched to the screen does give the advantages of removability and repositioning. Even though the Velcro has serious adhesive, we still stitch it because in general adhesives should never be trusted. They drift. The included mating side would need a few staples as well. Email me if you want to go this route so we can minimize the DIY discussions in the thread.

Cheers,
Chris

Great to hear, Vernon. Due to your experience, the retractables are more bullet-proof, so I shouldn't have to face that again. I'll also be bringing in an Epson or two so I can get more experience with them. I actually enjoyed re-making that one. I really hate having product out there that doesn't meet folks' expectations.

Cheers,
Chris

Watched some Galactica in HD on it last night and I don't usually see much picture difference between the HD and SD on my old screen. This one makes it MUCH more evident that I'm watching HD. Just goes to show how moire can really mess with your picture.

Now my wife can't pry me away from rewatching all my Blurays again lol

Subscribed.

I've got a JVC RS2 and i'd like to use the new XD material. I'd like to build a 120" 2.40 AR screen (110 wide, 46 tall). My rough calculations give me a tilt angle of about 7 degrees if i allow 4 inches for mounting. Would this be enough of a tilt to avoid moire?

The other complication is that i'd be zooming for 16:9 material. a 46" tall screen at 16:9 is only 94" diagonal. Would the material moire horribly at only 7 degrees?

What is the minimum angle you recommend for this kind of a projector?

Razor - That should be fine. There are a lot of JVC/Pioneer/Panny/Sony screens with the XD and little to no tilt, although there isn't a disadvantage to tilting so you're right to do what you can. To confirm that both sizes look ok, the only way to really know is test a sample first.

Cheers,
Chris

Chris
Could you send me a test sample as well, drop me an email and I will send you my mailing address
Thanks

Would backing material be needed with this new XD fabric to prevent light from getting through and reflecting off in wall speakers behind it? If so would the backing go directly behind the xd fabric or does there need to be space between the 2 materials?

I'm considering rebuilding my dazian ccc screen with some of this!

Very few fixed frame installations need the black backing, because as long as it is medium color or darker, and your speakers are reasonably nonreflective, you won't have issues. If you can't fix it with paint, then the black backing is an effective solution of last resort. The Center Stage XD will behave similarly to the current Center Stage material in this regard.

No space is necessary between the two materials. For the retractables, it just hangs somewhat loosely behind the screen.

Cheers,
Chris

I am upgrading to the AE3000 so I have some questions about how the XD screen looks with it. I got a small sample of the XD. My current screen sits 10.5' away, I suspended the sample 1.5' in front of it to simulate where the XD screen would be if I go though with it.

I am afraid a 9' seating distance will be too close. With the AE3000, how does the XD screen look if you sit around 9'? I can just barley see the weave in bright scenes. It's hard to tell how bad it is with such a small sample though.

Also, did you use a black backing with your screen? I can see the light shining off the black lacquer on my center channel though the XD sample, but it might just be because the small sample is open on the sides and too much light reflects back from the real screen behind it. I guess I would have to take the current screen down for an accurate test.

Do you use the zoom memory of the AE3000 for 16x9 on your 2.35:1? Does the image look any better/worse when you zoom in? My screen would be smaller, 96" x 40" for 2.35:1, can you zoom in to 40" height and see if you see any morie pattern with your 4.5 degree tilt? I see no morie at all, but I am testing with my old 720p projector, the AE3000 is not here yet.

The brightness of the XD sample seems about the same as my old screen, even though quite a bit of light passes though it. The color and contrast is way better on the XD. I think the weave pattern has some contrast and saturation enhancing effect. Again, its hard to tell from such a small sample, it might just be because its a 1.5' closer.

Vcook, If you do rebuild using the XD, please report how you like it. I have a CCC screen too, and want to replace it (sometime) with the XD material.

Easiest way is to use an IRlinc.

for what?

Hi TomBonge, I will double check this for you at the 9' mark. When I first put the screen up and was playing with the AE3000, it seems to me that I had to get to 3 - 4' to see the weave.


I did not use a black backing immediately behind the screen. I did, however, use triple back velvet on an area that was reflective behind my speakers.



Yes I do. Both AR look stunning in my totally dark room.



I will take a look for you at 40". I have yet to see any Morie pattern on my screen.


The AE3000 is located about 17' from my screen and the picture is plenty bright with the Cinema1 factory setting and the lamp set to Economy Mode.

Larry

Don't you have an IR remote?

I have an IR/RF remote.

Chris,

I have a couple of questions. I would like to thank you for the sample that you sent out also.

1. Can you do any custom sizes? I think I would prefer a 2.37 screen.

2. How long before you use the newer material on your electric screens. I need a little more gain if I go with a larger screen.

3. Any idea if you will add a masking option in the future?

Thank you,

Sure, we do custom aspect ratios no problem. While 2.35 is the general size for "scope," we have customers who want 2.37 to perfectly align with their lens, or 2.4 for those who want to grab the widest normal aspect ratios.


Summer. I can't get more specific because it's waiting on a new screen product to be released. The increase in gain is minimal: from 1.16 to 1.2.


We haven't started any development work on masking solutions for the retractable screens.

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for the info.

Can you give us a "hint" on the new product you are going to release? Should I wait?

Got my new retractable screen this week and finally installed it yesterday. First impressions out of the box were that this is a high quality product. Very good construction and packaging. The installation was quick and easy (with the help of my bodybuilder neighbor) and once I plugged it in I was ready to adjust the PJ and enjoy. The drop on the screen was exactly where I requested and required no adjustments at all. The colors came alive on the screen. It is a high quality product in every detail. I would expand more, but I want to get back to watching movies in pure bliss. Afterall, that is what this hobby is all about. Thanks Chris - I am very glad I found you on this forum and contacted you for my screen needs.

Dave

Since you're interested in a retractable, no. Current work on those is just iterative improvement: more control options, larger 2.35 sizes, minor revisions, etc.

Chris, last question, I promise.

I held the screen material up away from my existing projector screen and could see quite a bit of light passing through. How much light is lost? Do you happen to know a percentage?