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Chinese HD-DVD Player Rumors/Facts/Conjecture - Page 2

post #31 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

IMHO the price will have to be $199 tops. Even better would be $149 (or less) and at $99 they will literally fly out the door. Not sure, though, if they can be manufactured that cheaply.

I think we will see $199 street at some point this year - may be just the black Friday.

Conventional wisdom was that $300 needs to be breached for CE items to become mainstream. I think $200 is the new $300.
post #32 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caurus View Post

The Lite On should show up this summer, too:


Who the hell is designing the look of these players? That has to be the ugliest player I have ever seen in a long time.
post #33 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Who the hell is designing the look of these players? That has to be the ugliest player I have ever seen in a long time.

It's OK. It certainly looks better than the HD-A1 I had.

post #34 of 1657
Thread Starter 
edit: reposted at the top of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris062 View Post

I find it interesting that the mods closed the previous thread about the chinese manufacturing negotiating with Walmart. Was there really that much of a problem with the speculations about this? Why the need for censorship? Just food for thought.

For the record, I agreed with the mods actions is closing that thread.

It was drifting a lot in the last couple pages and nothing was related to the thread topic for at least fifty posts.

Since there was no news related to that particular deal, I agreed with the mods action to close the thread as it did appear that the thread subject as described had run its course.

This thread and the OP should have a more expansive discussion basis and is not directed related to that specific deal.

I did not think we were going to get any new new on the Fuh Yuan - Wal-Mart deal until later this month at the earliest.

I far as I know, the situation has not changed and the deal is in the same state as I last described.

This thread is intended to enlarge the discussion and has as I am intending a mandate to discuss some of the more diverse analysis that the Fuh Yuan thread generated.

IMHO that would not be off topic for this thread.

As the OP here, I want speculations and analysis of the more inexpensive HD DVD (and Blu-ray) players to specifically be part of this thread.

Lets just try to seperate fact from fiction and keep the fanboy nonsense to a minimum. Good natured fun though is allowed.

BTW, IMNSHO I saw no censorship going on on the closing or review of that thread, just more of the usual excellent moderation on behalf of the AVS crew.
post #35 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caurus View Post

The Lite On should show up this summer, too:



Haha!!! That is ugly!!!!!!!!!! Maybe they did it on purpose to make it stand out from the crowd of normal DVD players

It should have a laser sensor so when a person walks buy a voice is activated...

"Hey!!! I'm HD DVD!!!! BUY ME!!!!!!!!!!!"
post #36 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

The only reason why I say 720p/1080i is to keep the price low, obivously if the price was the same 1080p would be a better option to go with

For most consumers, 1080i on their displays will give them as good a picture as 720p or 1080p60/24.

At any rate, 1080i60 is vastly superior to 480i/p. Modern flat panel displays have to internally convert 1080i to progressive, actually one flash at one time, anyway and 1080i/60 can capture all the information of the 1080p24 movie or 1080i60 HD DVD mix anyway. Even sets with 720p or 768p native resolution have to adequately handle 1080i60, the broadcast HD standard.

1080924/60, or even 720p output, will not matter to most consumers.

If they care enough about 1080p60/24, that's what the Toshiba and other branded players are for, as a step up, for a moderate incremental cost.
post #37 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan View Post

Kosty,

We are all pretty much in agreement why Walmart floated the denial of their deal, and we know that they are known for not telegraphing specs of their new products, maybe even just having them appear in a circular right when they are introduced.

However, advanced publication of A/V specs is an anticpated part of CE marketing, used to generate public desire for products. When do you speculate that the Chinese manufacturers (even if we must exclude Fuh Yuan for obvious reasons) will start floating specs for these players.

Venturer, for one, went public months ago with its "silver box". Why would they have any reason not to want to generate some pre release fanfare for theirs? Or are Venturer and the other Chinese companies likely involved in negotiations with U.S. retailers and have had the fear of God instilled in them by the Walmart spectacle?

Wal-Mart's corporate culture on store branded items is very conservative. I don't expect them to same a damn thing publicly until models are being test marketed in October, if then.

The first Wal-Mart corporate acknowledgment not prompted by a interview might be just before launch.

But news of the final deal, and start of production and shipment of the initial batch of QC or test market players might occur well before that. Fuh Yuan, for example, might give news of production, even though they might not say who their customer is.

Its probable, we will continue to get updates on that and other deals as time goes on.
post #38 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Or are Venturer and the other Chinese companies likely involved in negotiations with U.S. retailers and have had the fear of God instilled in them by the Walmart spectacle?

I expect that those players not directly contracted by Wal-Mart will have normal PR releases and corporate marketing.

I expect that at CEDIA this Sep and at various smaller shows before that , that official PR events and press releases and announcements and press conferences will be held. News of these SoC players, those based on the HD DVD Microsoft/Broadcom reference design and that of Sigma Designs and other SoC decoders and solutions will be announced.

I would not even be surprised if the BDA announced a inexpensive Blu-ray reference design this summer or at CEDIA, based on Sigma's decoder solution, but I think that would be on the street months after any HD DVD inexpensive unbranded player, and at a higher price point. I think it would be possible that the BDA would announce such a design, but never plan to implement it as a blunt defense against the upcoming HD DVD Chinese players.
post #39 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Wal-Mart's corporate culture on store branded items is very conservative. I don't expect them to same a damn thing publicly until models are being test marketed in October, if then.

The first Wal-Mart corporate acknowledgment not prompted by a interview might be just before launch.

But news of the final deal, and start of production and shipment of the initial batch of QC or test market players might occur well before that. Fuh Yuan, for example, might give news of production, even though they might not say who their customer is.

Its probable, we will continue to get updates on that and other deals as time goes on.


When you say " Fuh Yuan, for example, might give news of production..." do you think that might include specs.

I think most of us here are not much interested in buying one of these as our primary player, but we sure as heck are curious about what one will get for $199.
post #40 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope View Post

$300 for a player in the future isn't that impressive when you can get a player for $350 now (and possibly $300 as someone pointed out already). This post also seems a bit self centered and what is up with the reserved posts?

Experience on creating threads that are for long term use. The advice of the mods. They are intended perhaps for summary information on various models or for explanations or summarized information on new people engaging in the thread,

Quote:


This post also seems a bit self centered and what is up with the reserved posts?

Just had I had a responsibility to launch this thread as I was prominent in the other thread, although I did not start that one and only jumped in 100 or so posts into it.

When Bferr1 and I managed the AFI 100 thread last fall, we found that it would have been very useful to have some reserved posts for updates at the top of the thread. Grubert and various other experienced AVS contributors tend to do that also.

Self-Centered? Nah....

This thread wasn't even my idea, it was the idea of larrimore and some others. Thanks BTW.

I'm just trying to implement it properly and set the tone and some ground rules.

I may post a lot here, but I expect that others will overwhelm me in their analysis and contributions.

If you have any other considerations, or thoughts on what I can do with those reserved posts. PM me.

Otherwise, welcome to the conversation.
post #41 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I am sure the reserved posts are placeholders for the times that extra special juicy tidbits or official press releases come our way. Great idea and keeps the big news at the front of the thread.

BINGO

It can help direct people to information in a monster thread.

People were complaining about reading through and searching for updates in the Fuh Yuan mega thread.

Also, as hot information comes in, it can be highlighted for easy review.





Plus it was an easy way to add to my post count.

j/k

BTW, I did run out of time as I am traveling for business, but the thread has since moved on so its a bit overcome by events now.
post #42 of 1657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeZ1998 View Post






Where were these slides from?

Do we have a complete set of them or a transcript?

Linky?
post #43 of 1657
Thread Starter 
[quote=yampan]When you say " Fuh Yuan, for example, might give news of production..." do you think that might include specs. [quote] Yes

But I'm pretty sure we'll have a good idea of the specs before then.


I think this has a high probability of being based on the Microsoft / Broadcom reference design or a upgraded variation of that, so that's a good start.

But this is HD DVD, and unlike Blu-ray were already know what minimum mandatory features are required to be in every player to earn the HD DVD logo.

We already know, as with the LG combo player, that the HD DVD PRG/forum is unlikely to compromise on that. So we can assume it will at least have the specs of (and greater ergonomic performance) than of the HD A1. Well maybe not all the audio goodies, maybe just the minimum, but it sure will boot up faster.


BTW, I don't think the production Venturer player will have HD DVD on the top , like that. That's trade show markings . I hope.
post #44 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

BTW, I don't think the production Venturer player will have HD DVD on the top , like that. That's trade show markings . I hope.

You mean the Liteon player? (The Venturer player looks very, um, "normal".)

I couldn't care less about a logo on top - it will be hidden in the AV rack.

I find the prospect of cheaper HD-DVD players quite exciting - I could pick one up for "Mom" or other close relative as a gift, let them borrow some HD-DVD titles, and see if they find it worthwhile. Of course for Mom, I'd need to get her a HDTV first...

I must admit to being amused by folks who wonder whether the Chinese-made players will be "good enough". A lot of current AV stuff, under a plethora of brand names, is manufactured in China. What matters is the actual design and Quality Control, IMHO. It's just that certain brands have better designs and QC, not better countries to make the stuff.

I think this fall will be quite interesting with the consumer market for HD vs SD content. If HD-DVD and/or BD don't make significant in-roads and garner headlines the way "1080p" did last year, we may just be a bunch of very enthusiastic niche fanboys, no different from the LD niche.

Time will tell, and there is little or nothing we at AVS can do about the outcome, I suspect.

shinksma
post #45 of 1657
just for speculation what features can be left out of the players to get a rock bottom price that makes sense?

IMO....
- drop trueHD 5.1 support
- drop all ports except HDMI, ethernet, usb.

if somebody just wants a new player to go with an hdtv they only need hdmi and trueHD is kind of a waste to license since it won't help the tv's speakers much.

if they have an hdmi receiver then the don't need the analog outs.

if they don't have an hdmi receiver and they do want 5.1 then they can pay for a slightly more expensive model with more audio options.

i thnk they need to keep ethrenet and usb otherwise they become like bd-j 1.0 players.
post #46 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverjg View Post

just for speculation what features can be left out of the players to get a rock bottom price that makes sense?
IMO....
- drop trueHD 5.1 support
- drop all ports except HDMI, ethernet, usb.

TrueHD decoding is Mandatory but only 2.0 not 5.1
Also Ethernet is mandatory as well.
This is according to the HD DVD Specs.
Wikipedia has a Nice Chart of the listed Madatory Specs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
So Sufice to say these inexpensive players will be better spec'd than the current and future BD players (until they hit BD-j 2.0)

A more convoluted list of Mandatory specs by the DVD Forum--> http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requi...n-July2005.pdf
post #47 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Where were these slides from?

Do we have a complete set of them or a transcript?

Linky?

http://www.cinemotion.biz/informacion.php?iinfo=78

http://www.cinemotion.biz/archivos/upload/hddvd07.ppt
post #48 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohgami View Post

TrueHD decoding is Mandatory but only 2.0 not 5.1
Also Ethernet is mandatory as well.
This is according to the HD DVD Specs.
Wikipedia has a Nice Chart of the listed Madatory Specs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
So Sufice to say these inexpensive players will be better spec'd than the current and future BD players (until they hit BD-j 2.0)

A more convoluted list of Mandatory specs by the DVD Forum--> http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requi...n-July2005.pdf

yes. not sure about usb but this is why it should stay....

Quote:


4.8.1 Seamless presentation and notification of updated content
Upon start of playing a disc, the disc automatically determines if additional content is available in the local
cache (hard drive), on the home network or on the internet and then either (1) notifies the user such
additional content is available (via button, or overlay graphic), or (2) seamlessly presents the additional content as if it was authored onto the DVD itself.
post #49 of 1657
It is interesting to speculate as to how manufacturing costs could be lowered. We know that the Chinese players will have to have all the mandatory specs. We also know that the Broadcom chip will be an all-in-one solution for most, if not all, of these players. They will have to have an ethernet port, sufficient memory, secondary video for PiP, stereo True HD, etc. So where can costs be cut?

1. The drive: Will these all be Lite-on drives? If so, will they be less durable and reliable than Toshiba drives? The NEC drives in the first generation units seem to be the cause of many playback problems. Personally, I avoid Lite-on drives for computer use.

2. The audio: We can't expect Sharq processors or Burr-Brown DACs in the audio section, such as we found in the first generation units. For many reasons, I think the best audio in all of the Toshibas may be that found in the A1 and XA1.

3. The fan: Losing the fan would save some money. This could be both a blessing and a curse. Some people hate fan noise, but I can recall my overheating Apex that skipped madly unless I gave it a spot away from other electronics and outside of any enclosure.

4. The case: More plastic and less metal. This could affect both shielding and vibration control. That could result in lower quality audio playback at least.

5. The motherboard: All components could be bunched together on one circuit board. That could cause some interference, or it might not make any difference at all. The board itself could be made of a flimsier material which is more subject to heat and cold.

6. Small electronic components: Cheaper capacitors could be used, such as the exploding or leaking capacitors that found their way into many PC motherboards. These and other small components could be bought in bulk from the cheapest supplier.

7. Wiring: Cheap wiring, cheap connectors, budget ribbon cables. These may make little or no difference.

8. Power supply: Minimal capacity power supply.

9. Labor: It remains to be seen what working conditions and pay will be like at Great Wall and other mega-plants. More than likely, as with other Wal-Mart deals, these will be sweatshops where costs are cut to the bone and where there is intense pressure on both labor and management to deliver the goods at an impossibly low price.

On the whole, I think that the video quality on these units will match the video quality of the first generation units and the A2, but the audio will be of lower quality. I also think these units -- at least some of them -- will be of hit or miss quality due to volume manufacturing and little quality control. They may also have components that do not hold up over time and may therefore be like many other electronics items -- disposable commodities not worth fixing.
post #50 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by webphilosopher View Post

It is interesting to speculate as to how manufacturing costs could be lowered. We know that the Chinese players will have to have all the mandatory specs. We also know that the Broadcom chip will be an all-in-one solution for most, if not all, of these players. They will have to have an ethernet port, sufficient memory, secondary video for PiP, stereo True HD, etc. So where can costs be cut?

1. The drive: Will these all be Lite-on drives? If so, will they be less durable and reliable than Toshiba drives? The NEC drives in the first generation units seem to be the cause of many playback problems. Personally, I avoid Lite-on drives for computer use.

2. The audio: We can't expect Sharq processors or Burr-Brown DACs in the audio section, such as we found in the first generation units. For many reasons, I think the best audio in all of the Toshibas may be that found in the A1 and XA1.

3. The fan: Losing the fan would save some money. This could be both a blessing and a curse. Some people hate fan noise, but I can recall my overheating Apex that skipped madly unless I gave it a spot away from other electronics and outside of any enclosure.

4. The case: More plastic and less metal. This could affect both shielding and vibration control. That could result in lower quality audio playback at least.

5. The motherboard: All components could be bunched together on one circuit board. That could cause some interference, or it might not make any difference at all. The board itself could be made of a flimsier material which is more subject to heat and cold.

6. Small electronic components: Cheaper capacitors could be used, such as the exploding or leaking capacitors that found their way into many PC motherboards. These and other small components could be bought in bulk from the cheapest supplier.

7. Wiring: Cheap wiring, cheap connectors, budget ribbon cables. These may make little or no difference.

8. Power supply: Minimal capacity power supply.

9. Labor: It remains to be seen what working conditions and pay will be like at Great Wall and other mega-plants. More than likely, as with other Wal-Mart deals, these will be sweatshops where costs are cut to the bone and where there is intense pressure on both labor and management to deliver the goods at an impossibly low price.

On the whole, I think that the video quality on these units will match the video quality of the first generation units and the A2, but the audio will be of lower quality. I also think these units -- at least some of them -- will be of hit or miss quality due to volume manufacturing and little quality control. They may also have components that do not hold up over time and may therefore be like many other electronics items -- disposable commodities not worth fixing.

I'd be interested to know whether you are lumping the Fuh Yuan/Walmart players in with all the others we expect to see. I would think that Walmart, with the quantity in question, would have experts evaluating the materials list before signing the contract, and would perform extensive QC tests before putting them on the shelves.

How the others handle it, who knows.

Regarding the audio, as Kosty mentioned, to be approved HD-DVD players, they will have to output the minimal Dolby standard, which means at least HDMI, and probably, but not necessarily, optical. For the target audience this is more than sufficient, since most will be hooked up to tv speakers, or an inexpensive theater in a box, at best. Sure, those of us here who might want to give one to a relative would like to see more, but, hey, it's probably not going to happen.

As for the drives, that's an interesting point. Perhaps we are talking about expected reliability from several angles. If you mean longevity, then most of the drives should accomplish the mission of gaining the installed base. If we are looking at day to day glitches and readability problems, failures there could be disastrous and taint the whole effort.

P.S. Hmmm--- What makes me think that Wallmat will leave the labor issues to them?
post #51 of 1657
Image quality will likely be fine. Audio quality will also likely be fine.

Build quality may suck. The question though is how badly they will suck.

I've had el cheapo Chinese DVD players which are fine, and have remained fine after 3 years.
I've also had el cheapo Chinese players which died after a year, because the output jacks were soldered on so poorly that they became loose from the motherboard.
post #52 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by webphilosopher View Post

It is interesting to speculate as to how manufacturing costs could be lowered. We know that the Chinese players will have to have all the mandatory specs. We also know that the Broadcom chip will be an all-in-one solution for most, if not all, of these players. They will have to have an ethernet port, sufficient memory, secondary video for PiP, stereo True HD, etc. So where can costs be cut?

1. The drive: Will these all be Lite-on drives? If so, will they be less durable and reliable than Toshiba drives? The NEC drives in the first generation units seem to be the cause of many playback problems. Personally, I avoid Lite-on drives for computer use.

2. The audio: We can't expect Sharq processors or Burr-Brown DACs in the audio section, such as we found in the first generation units. For many reasons, I think the best audio in all of the Toshibas may be that found in the A1 and XA1.

3. The fan: Losing the fan would save some money. This could be both a blessing and a curse. Some people hate fan noise, but I can recall my overheating Apex that skipped madly unless I gave it a spot away from other electronics and outside of any enclosure.

4. The case: More plastic and less metal. This could affect both shielding and vibration control. That could result in lower quality audio playback at least.

5. The motherboard: All components could be bunched together on one circuit board. That could cause some interference, or it might not make any difference at all. The board itself could be made of a flimsier material which is more subject to heat and cold.

6. Small electronic components: Cheaper capacitors could be used, such as the exploding or leaking capacitors that found their way into many PC motherboards. These and other small components could be bought in bulk from the cheapest supplier.

7. Wiring: Cheap wiring, cheap connectors, budget ribbon cables. These may make little or no difference.

8. Power supply: Minimal capacity power supply.

9. Labor: It remains to be seen what working conditions and pay will be like at Great Wall and other mega-plants. More than likely, as with other Wal-Mart deals, these will be sweatshops where costs are cut to the bone and where there is intense pressure on both labor and management to deliver the goods at an impossibly low price.

On the whole, I think that the video quality on these units will match the video quality of the first generation units and the A2, but the audio will be of lower quality. I also think these units -- at least some of them -- will be of hit or miss quality due to volume manufacturing and little quality control. They may also have components that do not hold up over time and may therefore be like many other electronics items -- disposable commodities not worth fixing.

IMO you are taking a very negative view of cost reduction.

I think everything you said could come true....or not.

the question i asked earlier was about cost reduction, not quality reduction.

with broadcom/ms/toshiba basically doing the engineering i think it is possible to have a solid product that costs less then the current options.

drive - i think drives can be high quality and meet hd dvd specs regardless who makes them. i didn't see anything in your post about specific componensts that can be cost reduced in the drives without impacting quality. seems like buying parts in volume is the biggest cost reduction....unless there is an engineer out there that knows a bit more about the drive internals.

audio - all audio of any importance can go out over hdmi. getting rid of all the fancy analog stuff will cut a lot of cost and reduce power requirements.

fan - removing the fan might be reasonalbe with no impact on quality if most of the chips are eliminated/consoidated and the power required goes down enough.

case - case design can be simplified. less shielding is needed if there are fewer chips/wiires/connectors. vibration is a non issue for audio over hdmi.

motherboard - on the mother board quaity should go up with price going down. most of the components will be consolidated into fewer chips and there will be far far lfewer wires and connectors. IMO gen3 players should be much less likely to suffer from noise problems and wiring/connector problems then gen1/gen2. with fewer parts, the stacking of part tolerances will be reduced so the boards will be more consistently the same.

components - sure they can buy crap parts but that is not necessry. manufacturers spec out the part tolerances that are required and they test them to meet specifications. made in china is not equal to crap exploding capacitors.

side note: for example, car manufacturers look for ways to save 1/4 of a penny in car parts just due to the high volume of manufacture. a lot of the cost reduction is in trying to find subcontractors that can meet your specifications and have manufacturing facilities that are more efficient. anybody seriously worried about cheap chinese components should consdier what their kids are riding around in every day. take a look at how many ford f150s are made every year.

wiring - fewer wires, connectors. no need for low quality wires and connectors. just buy in high volume from a source that meets the specs.

power supply - getting rid of analog audio parts and consolidating digital into fewer chips should cut way down on power needed. a smaller power supply costs less.

labor - chinese labor costs less. if walmart sets a low quality bar i don't see what that has to do with labor. actually, that is my primary concern regarding walmart. IMO a lot of the time they settle for poor quality just to make a buck. but, according to the OP, this thread is not about walmart and anyway not everything in walmart is poor quality.

IMO the video can be the same for hd but might not be as good as toshiba players for sd. they could give these players less capable upconversion to reserve the highest quality for more expensive players.

IMO audio will be the same because of hdmi. with the exception that they could leave out trueHD 5.1 decoding.

Ethernet/USB should be the same.
post #53 of 1657
Did Wal-Mart deny that they are looking to have someone make HD-DVD players. Or did they deny that they asked Fuh Yuan to make them?

If Wal-Mart wants to make HD-DVD players, I'll get one today. If they deny wanting to make them then I'll wait...

-Greg
post #54 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistagreg View Post

Did Wal-Mart deny that they are looking to have someone make HD-DVD players. Or did they deny that they asked Fuh Yuan to make them?

If Wal-Mart wants to make HD-DVD players, I'll get one today. If they deny wanting to make them then I'll wait...

-Greg

Wal-Mart denied they had an imminent deal with Fuy Yuan, but also said they don't disclose any negotiations with suppliers. Then they went on to say that Q4 2007 could be a very important time in this format war. At the same time, Fuy Yuan issued a statement saying it wasn't a done deal, but also confirmed that they had been negotiating with Wal-Mart about this, with even more than 2 million players being talked about.

Take that as you will.
post #55 of 1657
What happens if these players are very, very good? Especially for the price?

It's certainly not out of the question, according to the spec for the BCM 7440 chipset going in these, they will even playback DTS-HD, something that even the current Toshiba's don't do.

The 7440 also allows for playback of SACD's and DVD audio and has 7.1 analog outs, a coax out and a spdif.

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

I used to pay through the nose for Starbucks coffee. I'm currently sipping on good ol' Walmart 100% Arabica. Unlike the Starbucks, there are no robusto beans in it to give that bitter wang to it.

Just because these players are going to Walmart doesn't mean they have to be poor quality.
post #56 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

What happens if these players are very, very good? Especially for the price?

It's certainly not out of the question, according to the spec for the BCM 7440 chipset going in these, they will even playback DTS-HD, something that even the current Toshiba's don't do.

The 7440 also allows for playback of SACD's and DVD audio and has 7.1 analog outs, a coax out and a spdif.

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

I used to pay through the nose for Starbucks coffee. I'm currently sipping on good ol' Walmart 100% Arabica. Unlike the Starbucks, there are no robusto beans in it to give that bitter wang to it.

Just because these players are going to Walmart doesn't mean they have to be poor quality.

No they don't have to be poor quality, but the history of cheap DVD players tells us that they often are. Sure, the playback may be fine, but playback is just one aspect of a player. The things that I see as being the most problematic on these cheap off brand players are:

1) Build quality
2) Ergonomics (such as with the design of the remote and menus)
3) Support (such as with documentation and firmware updates, as well as warranty stuff)
4) Etc.

Playback quality actually is less important in many ways. As long as it's way better than el-cheapo DVD player playback quality, then it's good enough.

In fact, the factors above are big reasons why I think they will in fact be cheaper. It will be a lot easier to make a player that sells at $199 street if they can cut corners on all that stuff. The question is just how many corners they will cut. Current cheap DVD players cut a lot of corners too, but they're at the level now where they can be cheap, yet acceptable (unlike the early days, when some were cheap and sucked royally too).

P.S. I'd be surprised if they play back DTS-HD. The chipset may support it, but I don't think they'd want to pay for the licensing (assuming that it costs more than supporting decoding plain DTS alone).
post #57 of 1657
It looks like the BCM 7440 saves some money on putting out 1080i instead of 1080p. I would presume that means HDMI 1.2 outputs.

But if BCM is making the chipset with all the software and outputs, and TDK is making the blue laser assembly, all that is left for the Chinese factory is final assembly, connecting the wire harnesses, the power supply and the case.

My A2 was assembled in China and has not had any problems.
post #58 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

What happens if these players are very, very good? Especially for the price?

It's certainly not out of the question, according to the spec for the BCM 7440 chipset going in these, they will even playback DTS-HD, something that even the current Toshiba's don't do.

The 7440 also allows for playback of SACD's and DVD audio and has 7.1 analog outs, a coax out and a spdif.

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

I used to pay through the nose for Starbucks coffee. I'm currently sipping on good ol' Walmart 100% Arabica. Unlike the Starbucks, there are no robusto beans in it to give that bitter wang to it.

Just because these players are going to Walmart doesn't mean they have to be poor quality.


i guess they will use the same chipset for higher end players. imo there is a very good chance low end players will be a good value/quality.

the player should be perfect for somebody that just wants to buy an hdtv and player and connect the player to the tv with hdmi. no frillls. no mess. done.
post #59 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

It looks like the BCM 7440 saves some money on putting out 1080i instead of 1080p. I would presume that means HDMI 1.2 outputs.

But if BCM is making the chipset with all the software and outputs, and TDK is making the blue laser assembly, all that is left for the Chinese factory is final assembly, connecting the wire harnesses, the power supply and the case.

My A2 was assembled in China and has not had any problems.

Your A2 is a Toshiba. The Chinese cheapos are not.

The difference here is QA and component quality, among other things. It's well known that Chinese factories can put out several tiers of products in terms of quality. It's often the case that outside companies using Chinese manufacturers have somewhat better built products than when these same manufacturers are producing their own house brands.

And even if the build quality of the units is exactly the same, there are other very significant factors such as ergonomics, aesthetics, and support, to name a few.

I guess my point here is that although the existence of a reference design may mean the Chinese players have a higher chance of being excellent quality overall, I definitely wouldn't count on it, especially since video output quality is not the only gauge of quality.

P.S. I think that 1080p support is completely irrelevant for a low end player.
post #60 of 1657
There just better not be a high failure rate

As for build quality, well its not an iPod or a Game Boy. People aren't going to be lugging these things around everywhere with them.
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