DVE & DLP Question

Hello eroc v2,

The Samsung displays use a color coordinate adjustment system, or CCA, that corrects the color primaries/secondaries based on the calibration and data entered. In doing this, the system adds colors together such as red and green to make a different shade of red. As such, this skews the results achieved when looking through the color filters. In order to set the pattern correctly you would need to enter the factory menu system and disable the CCA system before making an adjustment.

The VGA input is meant for RGB sources, which are already color decoded and; therefore, should not require further adjustment. This is not always the case as there is processing occuring in the display that may affect this.

Good Pictures!

Dave

eroc v2,

The different filters are meant to isolate the different channels of video, yet they aren't perfect. Odds are they are leaking a little light from the other colors present which can yield somewhat inaccurate results. In adjusting for the blue channel you will want to focus on the color and the tint controls. Try to assess how much light is leaking from the other colors and make it match as closely as the disc illustrates. This can be tough, this is one of the reasons that Avical is pushing our clients to include red only, green only, and blue only modes in order to more easily isolate the various colors and more precisely make the necessary adjustments.

Good Pictures!

Dave

Is this on all Sammy DLP's? I have a HLP4674 720p that is a few years old. Do you disable the CCA and then set the colors then turn CCA back on? Is this actually a good thing to do? Does it goof up the colors when CCA is back on?

The only adjustment I made to my service menu is changing the Gamma from 2 to 0. I can get blue pretty close and red pretty close using the "Color Weakness" in the Settings menu. Green is too bright and I can't do anything about it. No way to lower it.

Color weakness is on a seperate page in the Sammy HLS service menus, maybe in your set too?
I can't help you with your issue as all I've done is cut gamma from 4 to 0.

Is this also a problem with last years Samsung DLP's? (HL-S6187w)?

mchuckp,

Yes, the CCA needs to be disabled to properly set color decoding on every DLP display that utilizes it. To do so, turn CCA off, set the color/tint and any other color decoding parameters you are comfortable with, then turn CCA back on. If you look through a filter with CCA on, it will appear incorrect. The CCA system mixes colors together to correct the primaries/secondaries as desired. If you use a color filter with it on, the filter removes colors that are suppose to be there. Turning CCA off helps to get around the issue when using the filters.

Best,

Dave

eroc v2

I would not recommend using the color weakness function to correct for color decoding. There are parameters located in the factory menu for this; however, it takes a good understanding of color processing in order to adjust properly - this is often where a professional calibrator comes in.

rocko1290,

Yes, this is an issue with the HL-S series Samsung displays.

Good Pictures!

Are all the changes made in the service menu or are do you turn CCA off then make your adjustments in the user menu and finish by turning CCA on ?

PapBliss,

You can make all of the changes in the service menu, or you could make them in the user menu. Remember that when you enter the service menu the user menu resets; therefore, you will want to write down your settings before entering the service menu to turn CCA back on.

Good Pictures!

Dave

eroc v2,

I believe that adjusting color decoding in the service menu will affect the processing on VGA. Does the color/tint appear to be off when using the VGA input?

Best,

Dave

so can't you just not use the color filters than it will calibrate just fine?

also, how much of a difference would the whole CCA thing make?

rocko1290,

The color filters are not the best way to set one of these displays up as the color filter wheel still consists of a R,G,B,Y,C filter set which can make the filters very difficult to use. We have asked Samsung many times to put an R,G,B only mode in the display, but since the HL-P series they have not done so.

The CCA makes a huge difference as it affects the color representation of the entire image.

eroc v2,

Warm2 pertains to the color temperature. More than likely your grayscale is not calibrated properly and is leaning towards the warmer side of the scale. In order to correct this a grayscale calibration is in order.

Good Pictures!

Dave

eroc v2,

You cannot just take the settings from one set and put it into another. I believe there is actually a thread going on regarding this someone in this forum. Each display reacts differently, there are parts tolerances, and variations from source to source that can cause differences. The way to achieve accurat results is to measure and calibrate your system so that it meets the necessary system standards.

Good Pictures!

Dave

Hello eroc v2,

We often have many displays constantly moving in and out of our lab as we purchase many sets to test and learn them before calibrating them for our clients. I have owned the Samsung HL-Sxx88/87 series, as well as the HL-S5689. Currently, we are testing the new HL-T series as I write this.

In our opinion the Samsung HL-S series, after proper calibration, is one of the best consumer displays on the market. They are truly capable of producing an excellent image.

Good Pictures!

Dave

Would a typical calibrator know that you have to turn off CCA in these Samsungs to get accurate colors?

Also, can't you just calibrate with DVE without using the color filters, and this will produce accurate colors?

Is it difficult to enter the SM and temporarily disable CCA, adjust your colors, then re-enable it? Does it automatically turn back on if you turn your TV off then back on again?

rocko1290,

I would not say that a typical calibrator will know about the CCA function, but a properly qualified calibrator will. It is important to interview your calibrator before hiring a specific one. We have written an article on this located here:

http://www.avical.com/articles/hirin...echnician.html

As for DVE... The tutorial of the program and the patterns contained within will require you to use the color filters in order to achieve accurate color decoding. If you had access to a spectal based colorimeter or a spectroradiometer you could measure the various levels to set this up properly, but it is much more efficient, and cost effective, to use the filters.

No, the CCA will not turn on automatically when you turn on/off the display. You would need to enter the service menu, disable CCA, exit, make the adjustment, write down your numbers, enter the service menu, turn CCA back on, exit and plug your numbers back in.

Goo Pictures!

Dave

As a Samsung DLP owner who has also just ordered DVE this thread is very informative. I'm glad that there has been discussion regarding turning CCA off as I wouldn't have know about this. However, I have several questions.

First, my model only allows a DNIe "demonstration" mode, DNIe cannot be turned off by user controls although it can be disabled in the service menu. Should DNIe be turned (and left) off? Since the service menu provides something like 7 or 8 different DNIe selections, can DNIe be adjusted to reduce it's "edginess" and make it less instrusive or should it just be left off altogether?

Also, while I like the TV very much, it displays a considerable amount of macroblocking. For instance a picture with a clear blue sky shows several (half a dozen) distinct bands of slightly different intensity blue. These are very distinct no matter what the brightness/contrast adjustments are. Can this be corrected or it just the way it is?

Mace14,

In general, DNIe should be turned off and left off for a more accurate image. Macroblocking is a compression artifact that will be rectified with better compression/decompression. If the issue is a bit depth one, and the display does not have enough to process the image properly, then it will not be corrected. During our calibration process we check and optimize the various picture parameters to minimize the bit processing issues.

Good Pictures!

Dave

Dave, is it pretty easy to enter the SM, disable CCA, then turn it back on? Would you mind telling us how to do it?

Also, is CCA an advantage or disadvantage?

Not sure the access code is something David is at liberty to share as SM access is suppose to be limited to certified technicians. If has been posted here and all over the web so here you go.


Access the service menu.

1. With the set in the standby mode, press Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power on the remote.

Enter the CCA submenu.

2. Scroll down to the CCA submenu and press the remote Right Arrow key to open it.

3. Select the CCA adjustment item and turn it OFF.

4. Exit the CCA submenu (press the Menu key).

Got it, thanks Dave. Regarding the compression/decompression...are you saying the majority of the problem is caused by my source? If so, is there any tweaking that can be done with an HD STB/DVR to improve this (I have a Scientific Atlanta 9300HD) or is it an issue with the cable service provider farther up the line? If it's further up the line is this something the cable company can fix in response to a complaint?