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Loosing it, HD1000+Vista+GeForce 8800 = hell

post #1 of 65
5/6/07 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Hi! I'll try to make this short.

I recently built a monster of an HTPC with a core2duo, 8800, 1000gb of hd space and 4gb of ram. Sounds good doesn't it? This coupled with the HD1000U and Windows Vista. On paper it's great but...

Firstly. the reason I'm using Vista is because I had very unstable results on XP due to bad drivers conflicting with my motherboard's chipset. I then decided to go with Vista which allegedly had less BSODs. That turned out to be true, I have much much more stability with Vista. But that is also the reason of most of my recent problems.

NVidia is so out of touch with the community that they forgot to add a 1280x720p resolution in the control panel. Worse, they removed the option of creating a custom resolution in the control panel. wow.

There has been numerous suggestions on the official NVidia Forums, the most important being the modification of one config file (.inf) that has the valid resolutions allowed. Sadly, even with a modified INF file it did not alter the control panel to add 720p. People also suggested to use the drivers that came with the HD1000U but I lost the cd and I'm not sure if that was actual drivers either.

That said. I am forced to use 1024x768 streched to 16:9 - this is insanely bad, but it gives better results then using another 16:9 resolution higher than 720p.

Now, let me just express my sentiment here, am I the only one in the world using a 8800, Vista and a HD1000U? If not then, is anyone actually frustrated at the fact that in 2007, NVidia forgot for months to put 720p and 1080p in their control panel in Vista? THIS IS INSANE.

I hope to find a solution fast, if not, I'll have to reformat, reinstall XP/all my games/app/drivers and that will last me a good 10 hours +... I don't have time to reformat 6 times a year for my setup....

Please help me with your inputs, I'm really looking forward to your replies, this forum is so leet.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 65
5/6/07 at 5:33pm
Why stay with the 8800? I'd replace the video card.
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post #3 of 65
5/6/07 at 5:35pm
Dude, download "Powerstrip" it allows you to use custom resolutions no matter what driver you use. Im using it now with my ATI card, works perfect.
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post #4 of 65
5/6/07 at 5:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoogs View Post

Dude, download "Powerstrip" it allows you to use custom resolutions no matter what driver you use. Im using it now with my ATI card, works perfect.

PowerStrip is NOT compatible with 8800s
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post #5 of 65
5/6/07 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

Why stay with the 8800? I'd replace the video card.

I paid 500$ for it, it is the only X360/PS3 killer on the market, it runs Aero like alien technology and it's the best of the best. Crysis will be spanked.

I'll endure the pain a little bit more.
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post #6 of 65
5/6/07 at 6:22pm
Did you try Rivatuner?? There are quite a few programs out there, just try them all
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post #7 of 65
5/6/07 at 10:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoogs View Post

Did you try Rivatuner?? There are quite a few programs out there, just try them all

I tried rivatuner, it failed to add 1280x720@60hz but bizarrely, I managed to create a 1440x900 resolution that I needed for one of my monitor. That is so strange...

Any other program suggestion? plz
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post #8 of 65
5/6/07 at 11:14pm
i guess you built your htpc for gaming... i was going to say why not use linuxmce? good luck, im waiting on the 8800 because in 3-4 months, the market will be getting the newer dx10 cards =) 8800 is nice tho.
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post #9 of 65
5/6/07 at 11:24pm
What driver version are you using? Nvidia put up a new one on May 2. Have you updated since then?
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post #10 of 65
5/7/07 at 5:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

What driver version are you using? Nvidia put up a new one on May 2. Have you updated since then?

I tried them, some reported that it helped. But for me, no difference.

I'm just waiting for someone to come here with vista a 8800 and the HD1000.

Will comment.
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post #11 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m View Post

Hi! I'll try to make this short.

I recently built a monster of an HTPC with a core2duo, 8800, 1000gb of hd space and 4gb of ram. Sounds good doesn't it? This coupled with the HD1000U and Windows Vista. On paper it's great but...

Firstly. the reason I'm using Vista is because I had very unstable results on XP due to bad drivers conflicting with my motherboard's chipset. I then decided to go with Vista which allegedly had less BSODs. That turned out to be true, I have much much more stability with Vista. But that is also the reason of most of my recent problems.

NVidia is so out of touch with the community that they forgot to add a 1280x720p resolution in the control panel. Worse, they removed the option of creating a custom resolution in the control panel. wow.

There has been numerous suggestions on the official NVidia Forums, the most important being the modification of one config file (.inf) that has the valid resolutions allowed. Sadly, even with a modified INF file it did not alter the control panel to add 720p. People also suggested to use the drivers that came with the HD1000U but I lost the cd and I'm not sure if that was actual drivers either.

That said. I am forced to use 1024x768 streched to 16:9 - this is insanely bad, but it gives better results then using another 16:9 resolution higher than 720p.

Now, let me just express my sentiment here, am I the only one in the world using a 8800, Vista and a HD1000U? If not then, is anyone actually frustrated at the fact that in 2007, NVidia forgot for months to put 720p and 1080p in their control panel in Vista? THIS IS INSANE.

I hope to find a solution fast, if not, I'll have to reformat, reinstall XP/all my games/app/drivers and that will last me a good 10 hours +... I don't have time to reformat 6 times a year for my setup....

Please help me with your inputs, I'm really looking forward to your replies, this forum is so leet.

Thanks.

I too have a Windows Vista HTPC with BFG 8600GTS OC video card-using nvidia's 158.18 drivers. Though my projector is an Infocus IN72, the nvidia control panel does 1280x720p on my system. So, the 1280x720 is available in nividia drivers, perhaps the problem is with the projector's resolution output. BTW, did you post this in the avs HTPC forum?

Good Luck!
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post #12 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:43am
I've got the 8800GTX and an HD72 and have no problems getting 1280x720p or 1920x1080p resolutions out of it. In the Nvidia control panel I treat it as an HDTV and there are a bunch of standard HDTV resolutions to choose from (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). I run XP though and it's very stable.

It does have a bug though on the latest driver release where I can't drive 1280x768p...when I do it outputs 1080i instead which looks like garbage of course.

I wouldn't give up on it...it's an amazing card. I have a true dual format HTPC (Bluray, HD-DVD, DVD) that offers top notch deinterlacing (inverse telecine and motion adaptive) for the HD formats with their purevideo drivers. It also performs the vertical stretch necessary for 2.35 CIH setups. The stock cooling is amazingly quiet for how much power it dissipates as well...nearly non-audible for theaters.

Mike
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post #13 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:59am
The projector will accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI, grab a DVI to HDMI cable and set your video card to 1080p.


Edit: For the record I do not have this setup, but I send my HD1000 a 1080p signal from my PS3 via HDMI and it works fine.
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post #14 of 65
5/7/07 at 7:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post

I too have a Windows Vista HTPC with BFG 8600GTS OC video card-using nvidia's 158.18 drivers. Though my projector is an Infocus IN72, the nvidia control panel does 1280x720p on my system. So, the 1280x720 is available in nividia drivers, perhaps the problem is with the projector's resolution output. BTW, did you post this in the avs HTPC forum?

Good Luck!

Thanks for your reply sgibson, but I'll have to ask, do you use Vista?

The problem seems to be independant from the projector... it's just not available from the control panel. I can throw many resolution the PJ cant do, but 720p is no-where to be found.
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post #15 of 65
5/7/07 at 7:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uatatoka View Post

I've got the 8800GTX and an HD72 and have no problems getting 1280x720p or 1920x1080p resolutions out of it. In the Nvidia control panel I treat it as an HDTV and there are a bunch of standard HDTV resolutions to choose from (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). I run XP though and it's very stable.

It does have a bug though on the latest driver release where I can't drive 1280x768p...when I do it outputs 1080i instead which looks like garbage of course.

I wouldn't give up on it...it's an amazing card. I have a true dual format HTPC (Bluray, HD-DVD, DVD) that offers top notch deinterlacing (inverse telecine and motion adaptive) for the HD formats with their purevideo drivers. It also performs the vertical stretch necessary for 2.35 CIH setups. The stock cooling is amazingly quiet for how much power it dissipates as well...nearly non-audible for theaters.

Mike

Yeah, under XP you can create custom resolutions. I'd switch but I'd loose 10+ hours of work... and XP gave me BSODs before. Vista does not...

I must point out that I am sending the signal under VGA. I have no choice since the cable is setup in the walls. It would be a shame not to use it.

Thanks for the support.
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post #16 of 65
5/7/07 at 7:49am
Thread Starter 
Could I try and post it in the HTPC section as well?
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post #17 of 65
5/7/07 at 8:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardaan View Post

The projector will accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI, grab a DVI to HDMI cable and set your video card to 1080p.


Edit: For the record I do not have this setup, but I send my HD1000 a 1080p signal from my PS3 via HDMI and it works fine.

Yes the projector is not the bigger part of the problem it seems. I can send a clear signal from my dvd player. But Vista+NVidia drivers will not include default HD resolutions in the control panel and the HD1000U will not send the proper values to vista correctly.

... is it hard to actually put the 1280x720 string in the drivers.
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post #18 of 65
5/7/07 at 10:32am
Check out this thread, try that link he gave:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=35090
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post #19 of 65
5/7/07 at 11:52am
On the GeForce tab of the driver control panel, I noticed that "Show standard HDTV formats" is unchecked (I'm using XP though). Do you see this option and have you checked it off? There's an option to add custom resolutions there as well, but maybe it's different with Vista. BTW, I'm using the "classic" control panel, not the newer one with the windows.

Oh, the first tab on the list called "Nview Display Settings" has a button "Device Settings" and a menu to check off "treat as HDTV" and select different formats including 720p. Okay, I tried that and it gives you a few options for native, overscan, and underscan. Hey, that added 1280x720 as an option in the regular display properties section (it had disappeared when I replaced my dying CRT with my new LCD monitor)! Have you tried this?
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post #20 of 65
5/7/07 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m View Post

Thanks for your reply sgibson, but I'll have to ask, do you use Vista?

The problem seems to be independant from the projector... it's just not available from the control panel. I can throw many resolution the PJ cant do, but 720p is no-where to be found.


Yep, I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium. Nvidia still needs to fix HDCP support, I can only do HDCP thru one DVI out. According to BFG tech support, the BFG8600GTS OC enables HDCP thru both DVI outs. BFG is using 158.18 drivers and they say Nvidia still has some things to fix. Here's hoping the next release will do the trick.
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post #21 of 65
5/7/07 at 3:21pm
I'm using a Vista Ultimate, and an 8800GTS. Never had a problem out of the box. Make sure you are using WHQL drivers and they should have what you want. Sounds like its either the projector or you simply don't have any recent drivers. The custom res option has been on the control panel for a long time and its still there, but you shouldn't need it.

And keep in mind that you don't need an 8800 to have a console killer as they are graphically rated in the pre-geforce 8 era of graphic cards.
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post #22 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoogs View Post

Check out this thread, try that link he gave:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=35090

I blindly tried but it's for XP only... it screwed up my actual drivers.
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post #23 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

On the GeForce tab of the driver control panel, I noticed that "Show standard HDTV formats" is unchecked (I'm using XP though). Do you see this option and have you checked it off? There's an option to add custom resolutions there as well, but maybe it's different with Vista. BTW, I'm using the "classic" control panel, not the newer one with the windows.

Oh, the first tab on the list called "Nview Display Settings" has a button "Device Settings" and a menu to check off "treat as HDTV" and select different formats including 720p. Okay, I tried that and it gives you a few options for native, overscan, and underscan. Hey, that added 1280x720 as an option in the regular display properties section (it had disappeared when I replaced my dying CRT with my new LCD monitor)! Have you tried this?

''I noticed that "Show standard HDTV formats" is unchecked (I'm using XP though).''

That is not present in the Vista Panel.

''Oh, the first tab on the list called "Nview Display Settings" has a button "Device Settings" and a menu to check off "treat as HDTV" and select different formats including 720p.''

This too, is not here.

Damn it, the control panel is empty... sooooo empty.
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post #24 of 65
5/7/07 at 6:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post

I'm using a Vista Ultimate, and an 8800GTS. Never had a problem out of the box. Make sure you are using WHQL drivers and they should have what you want. Sounds like its either the projector or you simply don't have any recent drivers. The custom res option has been on the control panel for a long time and its still there, but you shouldn't need it.

And keep in mind that you don't need an 8800 to have a console killer as they are graphically rated in the pre-geforce 8 era of graphic cards.

I tried about 5-6 different drivers of the 100 series. All failed to add the resolution; you could still point me towards one version you would be sure to have 720p.

''The custom res option has been on the control panel for a long time and its still there, but you shouldn't need it.''

No it's not. It's been out for months. In Vista at least.

and btw only 8800s have unified shader engines present in the x360/ps3, it's the only one to have specs well above these cards.

Thanks for the reply.
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post #25 of 65
5/7/07 at 9:00pm
You could also try running Microsoft Virtual PC to run an instantiation of Windows XP under Vista until the driver issue gets resolved. Perhaps a clean install of XP in a the virtual PC would cure the BSOD....
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post #26 of 65
5/7/07 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uatatoka View Post

You could also try running Microsoft Virtual PC to run an instantiation of Windows XP under Vista until the driver issue gets resolved. Perhaps a clean install of XP in a the virtual PC would cure the BSOD....

maybe I should just sell my stuff and travel around Europe?

edit: Thanks for the tip, I might try that.
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post #27 of 65
5/7/07 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m View Post

maybe I should just sell my stuff and travel around Europe?

edit: Thanks for the tip, I might try that.

We have very similar machines and opsys. All you have said about Nvidia's control panel is correct. I have built 10 or more projector PCs and for the first time, I (we) are seeing, (Hope I am wrong), the end of an era. Not having the custom timings, may very well be the tip of the iceburg. Did you notice that Creative XFI/Vista 64 bit did not support SPDIF, then it did but without updating the driver. How about your Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra going black and not being able to pull from a DVD rip server, or even sometimes from a local hard drive.

I could go on and on, but I think buy now you've got the HDCP point.
http://thomashawk.com/2006/02/hollywood-hates-you.html

Every manufacturer of chips, boards and software are bending over the get HDCP on not only our new $5000 PCs and PJs, but settops and direct cable. They cant get it to work right. As a system integrator for 20 years, I dont feel the love of a new pc anymore. I'm leary of building a new machine for a customer because of these a..holes. The content providers have all of these people in their back pocket. If Vista is anything, it is a video content filter. so is your new intel based MB, and Nvidia card, and of course you new monitor. Recently, a hardware reviewer could not view hd until he switched back from PowerDVD 7 to 6. Another reviewer couldnt watch hd on his new 30 inch dell 2500 res monitor because HDCP doesnt support dual dvi cables.... sorry.

As suggested above, would it help to go to some other opsys? Maybe in the short term. I think, Uganda is a better choice.
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post #28 of 65
5/8/07 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibo View Post

We have very similar machines and opsys. All you have said about Nvidia's control panel is correct. I have built 10 or more projector PCs and for the first time, I (we) are seeing, (Hope I am wrong), the end of an era. Not having the custom timings, may very well be the tip of the iceburg. Did you notice that Creative XFI/Vista 64 bit did not support SPDIF, then it did but without updating the driver. How about your Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra going black and not being able to pull from a DVD rip server, or even sometimes from a local hard drive.

I could go on and on, but I think buy now you've got the HDCP point.
http://thomashawk.com/2006/02/hollywood-hates-you.html

Every manufacturer of chips, boards and software are bending over the get HDCP on not only our new $5000 PCs and PJs, but settops and direct cable. They cant get it to work right. As a system integrator for 20 years, I dont feel the love of a new pc anymore. I'm leary of building a new machine for a customer because of these a..holes. The content providers have all of these people in their back pocket. If Vista is anything, it is a video content filter. so is your new intel based MB, and Nvidia card, and of course you new monitor. Recently, a hardware reviewer could not view hd until he switched back from PowerDVD 7 to 6. Another reviewer couldnt watch hd on his new 30 inch dell 2500 res monitor because HDCP doesnt support dual dvi cables.... sorry.

As suggested above, would it help to go to some other opsys? Maybe in the short term. I think, Uganda is a better choice.

Hibo. I feel like the whole industry has been hijacked. How is it remotly possible that the only ones having problem now are the ones who dig hardware to the point of being able to demand a decent experience. If I understand correctly, Vista is a sort of sink forcing anyone to reduce quality of display/audio in the name of global media profiting... but at the same time it's the first upgrade of microsoft in the last 4 years (or so). I have to choose between an interface that is many years due, future compatiblity for gaming - or clean and precise driver/config setup. The perfect trap for anyone just using their 17'' LCD with cheap plastic speakers claiming they seek video/audio quality...

I feel so shafted by this - nobody around even at my work that is filled with 100 engineers will understand my issues. They don't care for numeric sound, pixel matching, calibrating or anything. They don't know sh!t yet think they can debate wheter vista is a safe bet.

I will be going back to xp, but NVidia IMO is in some sort of conspiracy to crap-up XP drivers and release 1000 boggus vista ones to force the switch even faster.

I'm tired of this, XP will probably give me BSODs and look like crap... but I have no choice. Hell, with windows 2000 (7 years now) there has been zero improvement in system configuration as far as I am concerned. People work, people buy, people sleep. Maybe I should sell my PC and just buy an X360. No thinking required... but I'm not that kinda guy.

will be coming back for updates....
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post #29 of 65
5/8/07 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m View Post

I have to choose between an interface that is many years due, future compatiblity for gaming - or clean and precise driver/config setup. The perfect trap for anyone just using their 17'' LCD with cheap plastic speakers claiming they seek video/audio quality...

The driver problems with Vista have been brought about by the driver writers themselves. MS has always specified how kernel and user mode functions have to be coded and how interactions with these modes are to occur in drivers and application programming. The programmers have continued to write apps and drivers that do not properly conform to these specifications so that they can save time and money all the while trying to win the hardware performance game they have been playing.

NOW, MS has an OS that forces all apps and drivers to conform to its specifications - the loopholes that programmers have known about for years are now closed.

You think this is bad? When MS FINALLY abandons backward compatibility so that we can get a real oS that doesn't need terabytes of space to load, the whole world will be screaming at the top of their lungs.

Your BSOD problems are most likely due to an unfortunate combination of hardware components and very specialized high performance drivers. You can either build the best gaming rig ever OR a top notch media center but not both - on your setup.
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post #30 of 65
5/8/07 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

The driver problems with Vista have been brought about by the driver writers themselves. MS has always specified how kernel and user mode functions have to be coded and how interactions with these modes are to occur in drivers and application programming. The programmers have continued to write apps and drivers that do not properly conform to these specifications so that they can save time and money all the while trying to win the hardware performance game they have been playing.

NOW, MS has an OS that forces all apps and drivers to conform to its specifications - the loopholes that programmers have known about for years are now closed.

You think this is bad? When MS FINALLY abandons backward compatibility so that we can get a real oS that doesn't need terabytes of space to load, the whole world will be screaming at the top of their lungs.

Your BSOD problems are most likely due to an unfortunate combination of hardware components and very specialized high performance drivers. You can either build the best gaming rig ever OR a top notch media center but not both - on your setup.

"NOW, MS has an OS that forces all apps and drivers to conform to its specifications - the loopholes that programmers have known about for years are now closed."

Yes I find this bad because in some cases, like resolution output, it's dowright ludicrous and unimportant. How can Microsoft expect NVidia to battle 1000 companies to examine their EID standards? It's not just NVidia that is the problem, it's the whole industry that has no direct standard in their resolution specs. So in this case, yes.
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