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No Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD for PS3 owners? -- kind of

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I posted this hear rather than the BR Hardware thread to avoid trolling accusations.

I am sure they will find a way to wiggle around it. In execution it probably matters little as you most likely want to let the player do the decoding anyway, but its just another example of Sony playing in the grey area of truth.

I at least was pretty sure they had clearly been suggesting this would be supported as part of all the HDMI 1.3 marketing hype over the HD-DVD players. I guess they will say, no see it is still supported, we decode it and send out the PCM stream.

Am I the only one who was sure this was supported?

http://www.engadgethd.com/

When the PS3 hit the street it was recognized as one of the most full featured Blu-ray players to date, but it seem now that PS3 owners aren't getting everything they thought they were. It has recently been uncovered that although the PS3 does have an HDMI 1.3 port, the software does not support bit stream audio. What this means for Blu-ray fans is that when they finally pick up one of those new Onkyo receivers with HDMI 1.3, that they still can't enjoy Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD because there is no way to get the bits out of the PS3. Of course the DTS track can still be down mixed and PCM audio is supported, but so much for being the most capable Blu-ray player available.

** Dolby TrueHD can still be decoded inside the PS3 and sent as uncompressed audio to the AV receiver, but if the AV receiver has an integrated decoder it can't be used instead of the PS3's decoder. **

** This was confirmed by a Sony representative.**


Cheers,

Richard

Edit: Actually I see now that it has already been brought up in the PS3 thread. If the mods want to close this then thats cool.

Otherwise I would be interested in people thoughts on whether or not this was really clearly pormised or suggested or left unsaid by Sony to have us assume it was included.
post #2 of 13
Not only is this news relatively old, Engadget sourced it from here at AVS in the first place, where the discussion originated. If you find this interesting, I advise you read the HDMI 1.3 thread on this very page to gain insights.

I myself would argue that bitstreaming high def audio out of PS3 was never really part of the feature-set in the first place, so I find it a little hard understanding the 'surprise' surrounding it now. Having receivers decode the audio is a relic of a bygone era in any event; player decoding is the new paradigm.

PS - The way Engadget phrased its story is totally out of control in the first place, stating that the PS3 doesn't even decode TrueHD, then later revising to saying it does - if you essentially "settle" for non-receiver decoding. Pssssh!
post #3 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Not only is this news relatively old, Engadget sourced it from here at AVS in the first place, where the discussion originated. PS - The way Engadget phrased its story is totally out of control in the first place, stating that the PS3 doesn't even decode TrueHD, then later revising to saying it does - if you essentially "settle" for non-receiver decoding. Pssssh!

Yep... in fact, I think they actually based their article off a post I made (on May 7th) where I was questioning the chip used and in fact incorrectly mentioned the PS3 did not support TrueHD and was quickly corrected by another forum member.

It's getting to be scary that we can't source anything from these websites anymore, because most of what they print is speculation from the AVS forum. Talk about full circle... kinda like the Walmart rumors.

To update, latest research has found that the PS3 uses a Vastline Sil9132 which is a "game console" version of the Sil9134 (which does support bitstream lossless audio codecs). So until we get confirmation otherwise that the Sil9132 is deficient in transferring audio, we have to trust that the Sil9132 variant is just as capable as it's younger brother (Sil9134).

If the HDMI forum gets too crazy for you, here's a thread in the Blu-Ray forums that has some good consolidated information regarding HDMI and the PS3.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=843041&page=2
post #4 of 13
Has anyone thought of simply asking Silicon Image about the 9132? I realize that could put a fast damper on the discussion, but...
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Yeah I did some checking on the Advanced Audio codec claims and/or statements I could find from Sony regarding the PS3.

I couldn't find anything anywhere that specifically says it would be able to pass TrueHD or DTS-HD MA anywhere. Lots of stuff claiming avdanced HDMI 1.3 support and almost always tying in a statement about supporting deep color etc, but any specific audio statement is not there from where I have found.

I guess technically there is nothing wrong with not publicizing something that the PS3 does not offer. Heck you probably learn that day one, in marketing 101.

The end result was that myself and a lot of others thought it was included. A misconception that clearly played in Sony's favor. While maybe not wrong, I still don't like the feeling that they were somehow trying to dupe me.

Should probably just close this thread unless we want to debate on whether we think Sony deliberatly tried to smoke a mirrors the capabilities. I don't think that is really in line with the purpose of the forum though.

Cheers,

Richard
post #6 of 13
While I can understand the confusion for those that haven't kept up to speed on the whole advanced audio situation in HD optical, the fact that you'd have to either use bitstream+HDMI 1.3 or decoded PCM over HDMI 1.1+ to get lossless (without relying on player DACs) means either way you need an AVR w/ HDMI. With the PS3, excepting DTS-HD MA, you are covered as long as you have an HDMI input that can take multi-channel PCM. No need to buy an expensive new 1.3 AVR...

So I guess if you have your panties in a bunch about the lack of a feature on the lowest-cost, fullest featured 1st gen BD playback platform, I'd bark up the tree of getting DTS-HD MA decode enabled on the PS3 and not worry about it's purported lack of HDMI 1.3 capabilities...
post #7 of 13
Well, I can't afford equipment advanced enough to even hear a difference between TrueHD and 1.5MBps DTS, so this isn't a huge deal to me. As such, I would expect the majority of people using a PS3 as a dedicated Blu-ray player are much like me, and realistically wouldn't be missing out on much if they couldn't use these codecs.

They might complain because they read about this and they know in their heads that they aren't hearing TrueHD, but if they hadn't ever read it, their ears probably would have never noticed a difference.
post #8 of 13
So no 7.1 DD+, 7.1 Dolby TrueHD, 7.1 dts-HD HR or 7.1 dts-HD MA decoded from a bitstream input to an AVR/Pre-Pro by a PS3? Ever? No use in us asking for it here? Time for thread to close? We don't need it anyway?
post #9 of 13
So, if a device purportedly has HDMI 1.3, yet no one is able to utilize it for video and audio, what's the point of including it in the first place? It kind of seems like not having it at all, really.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1 View Post

So, if a device purportedly has HDMI 1.3, yet no one is able to utilize it for video and audio, what's the point of including it in the first place? I

So they could say it had a HDMI 1.3 port.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

So they could say it had a HDMI 1.3 port.

Bingo.

HDMI 1.x by itself means nothing. Buy features not version. If you want for example deep color you need to make sure you TV, source, and content all support Deep Color. Just because the PS3 or device xyz supports HDMI 1.3 doesn't mean squat.

BTW: I think Deep Color is worthless it's just an example.
post #12 of 13
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RROSEN View Post

I posted this hear rather than the BR Hardware thread to avoid trolling accusations.

I am sure they will find a way to wiggle around it.

No offense but comments like these are why people think you are trolling when you post in the Blu-ray sections of the forum. You have the whole "attack mentality" going when you post about Blu-ray and that is not really needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RROSEN View Post

In execution it probably matters little as you most likely want to let the player do the decoding anyway, but its just another example of Sony playing in the grey area of truth.

No, though a lot of people hoped that the PS3 would be able to output DTS-HD MA over the HDMI connection it was never a promised feature. On the other hand Deep Color support was promised and that is something that has been shown at a CES demonstration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgpsr View Post

So no 7.1 DD+, 7.1 Dolby TrueHD, 7.1 dts-HD HR or 7.1 dts-HD MA decoded from a bitstream input to an AVR/Pre-Pro by a PS3? Ever?

Actually the PS3 is quite capable of 7.1 channel Dolby TrueHD output today and in fact it can even do 7.1 channel PCM output for several PS3 games.
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