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Pioneer Elite VSX-90TXV, VSX-91TXH, VSX-92TXH, VSX-94TXH - Page 2

post #31 of 1583
I agree with SS9001. First and foremost, a receiver is an audio device, and with no mention of I-link for DVD-A, and SACD, Pioneer is forsaking one of the best features of their previous designs. I-Link, and open standard, eventually adopted by some including Denon and Yamaha, was the reason I was an Elite fan. High resolution audio through a digital connection with bass management and speaker distance compensation for me is critical. I don't want to use analog ins for DVD Audio. Interestingly we now have HDMI which is capable of passing all of the audio formats, but no single source capable of playing CD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray, and HD-DVD. If I remember correctly, the Panasonic Blu-ray player plays DVD-A, and I assume outputs through HDMI, but no SACD. The PS3 plays SACD but as it's a Sony, no DVD-A. Does the Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player even play CD's?

I'm not ready to give up my DV-59AVi DVD player as I am unwilling to forgo DVD-A and SACD over I-Link.

From the looks of things at this point Pioneer with its current or announced line up has taken away our ability to use their products for DVD-A and SACD using Pioneer products exclusively. What I would like to see is a new Elite combo player that will play everything, and output high rez audio digitally. I would also like to see a new Elite receiver with I-Link so legacy DVD players aren't obsoleted.

Another concern includes the Faroudja video processing although if it's a new chip perhaps my concern is not justified.

My other quandary evolves around the HDMI 1.3 spec and the ability to pass True HD and DTS Master for processing in the receiver. I'm sure I'm confused, but my understanding is all current HD-DVD and Blu-ray players decode high rez audio in the player and output as LPCM. So, at this point there is no way to send an un-decoded signal to a 1.3 capable receiver for decoding anyway. If the option to output an un-decoded high rez Bitstream? becomes available in future HD players my understanding is it will then depend on how the disc is authored as to whether or not high rez audio can be passed to and decoded in the receiver. I thought I read that if the disc is authored as advanced, decoding must be done in the player, and if it is authored as basic and can be decoded by an outboard processor, but some interactivity will be lost.

I'll be very interested to hear the first report of somebody stating he has actually lit either his Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio light on the display of his new HDMI 1.3 receiver.

I hope I'm wrong on some of these points but it sure will be interesting to see what happens over the course of the next few months.
post #32 of 1583
Thread Starter 
There are probably still quite a few 82's out there lacking the firmware upgrade though. That probably greatly depends where you get it from.
post #33 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDEATON View Post

I'm not ready to give up my DV-59AVi DVD player as I am unwilling to forgo DVD-A and SACD over I-Link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDEATON View Post

The PS3 plays SACD but as it's a Sony, no DVD-A

I'm also frustrated by the fact the i.Link is missing from the news release. I'm currently using a Denon 3910 and VSX-59TXi for high-res audio (mostly SACDs). Supposingly HDMI 1.3 (and even 1.2a) allows DSD stream to be sent but there is no SACD player/Universal player that do that, not even the PS3 (currently it converts the DSD stream to high-res LPCM before sends it out via its HDMI 1.3 port... hopefully a future firmware update will fix this). With less and less receivers and pre-pro equiped with i.Link the only other option for digital connection for high-res audio is to go exclusively with Denon w/ their Denon Link.

Not to mention the USB port now seems to be used for getting media files from portable devices and hard//flash drives instead. I'm currently connected my PC to my 59 as the multi-channels sound card. It sounds like that is going to the sideline as well.

I also don't want to go with the analog multichannels route for the reasons that you have stated... not to mention without i.Link and the multichannel (or even just 2 channels) USB options, one set of analog multichannels input is simply not enough for me. I guess I will have to keep my 59TXi (may be get a 94 and hook it up to the 59 via the analog multi-channels input on the 59?)

BTW, there is currently no player that can decode the lossless DTS master audio (they just extract the "core" 1.5Mbps DTS stream and sends it out), and a Blu-ray player doesn't need to provide decoding function, I think, although most can decode some of these new CODECs. So a HDMI 1.3 receiver with DTS master audio decoding capabilities is still worthwhile to have if you want the lastest and greatest.
post #34 of 1583
Thread Starter 
Are you sure the I-link is missing or maybe they just didn't mention that feature in the first press release. They are probably going to release information about things that are "new" to the receivers. For all we know, it could still be there but just not mentioned yet.

If it's not there they could take out the VCR composite video input cause I'm sure we all use that.
post #35 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaosphere482 View Post

Are you sure the I-link is missing or maybe they just didn't mention that feature in the first press release. They are probably going to release information about things that are "new" to the receivers. For all we know, it could still be there but just not mentioned yet.

If it's not there they could take out the VCR composite video input cause I'm sure we all use that.

Well, true, may be I over-reacted a bit Hopefully they will release the full spec soon and all things will be cleared up.
post #36 of 1583
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadESL63 View Post

Well, true, may be I over-reacted a bit Hopefully they will release the full spec soon and all things will be cleared up.

Still, there is no good reason NOT to be concerned. I guess we'll see....
post #37 of 1583
If Pioneer is watching this thread, I'll make this simple.

Include I-link and I'll upgrade my 74 series to a 94 series Elite.

Don't include I-link, and I'll go back to Denon.

I'm guessing I'm not the only one here either. For the first time, I chose Pioneer Elite over Denon on my last purchase, and my final deciding factor was the I-link for their SACD/DVD-A player of theirs that I still enjoy today.
post #38 of 1583
Damnit. I really don't want to wait until August for my new receiver. The 92 seems to include everything I've been waiting for, at a decent price. I have no receiver now, and need to pick one up before I purchase any speakers. I guess I'll check out the 91 when they release the complete specs for it. Judging by the current generation receivers, I'm guessing that the 91 will only include 2-3 hdmi inputs, whereas the 92 will likely include 4, which is really what I'm looking for.
post #39 of 1583
Thread Starter 
What makes the I-link a necessitiy? I ask cause I've never dealt with it before (I know what it is).
post #40 of 1583
Pioneer >>
If you are reading this thread :
Include "I-Link" ( IEEE1394 ) with your new Elite VSX94TXH.
If you drop it , DV-79AVi users will be left out !!
You already ( in your `84TXSi ) have { i Link / S400 } , please don`t cut that from your new
VSX-94TXH , you can use the same connection for your new BD player (BDP-94HD).
I`m sure you new that anyway
So Keep It !!
Thanks.
post #41 of 1583
Just found the spec`s for all 4 :

And I " " :

Specifications

VSX-94TXH VSX-92TXH VSX-91TXH VSX-90TXV
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amplification 140 watts x 7 130 watts x 7 110 watts x 7 110 watts x 7
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase Control Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Advanced MCACC Yes Yes Yes Yes
4th- 4th- 3rd- 2nd-
Generation Generation Generation Generation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
EQ Yes Envelope Yes Envelope Yes Envelope Yes Envelope
Type 9 Band Type 9 Band Type 9 Band Type 9 Band
(w/ (w/ (w/ (w/
microphone) microphone) microphone) microphone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Standing Wave
Control Yes Yes Yes -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Step of delay
adjustment 1 inch 1 inch 0.5 feet 0.5 feet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THX Select 2 Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dolby TrueHD Yes Yes Yes -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dolby Digital
Plus Yes Yes Yes -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dolby Digital
EX Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dolby Digital Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS-HD Yes Yes Yes -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS ES Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS 96/24 Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neural-THX
Surround Yes Yes - -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DVD-Audio
Ready Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WMA9 Pro Yes Yes Yes Yes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Video
Converter Yes HDMI Yes HDMI Yes HDMI Yes Component
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HDMI 1.3a Yes Yes Yes -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HDMI Video Yes x 4 Yes x 3 Yes x 2 Yes x 2
Switching (Pass
through)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
S-Video 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out
(Assignable) (Assignable)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component 3 in, 1 out 3 in, 1 out 3 in, 1 out 3 in, 1 out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Composite 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out 5 in, 3 out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Audio inputs 4A / 7AV 4A / 7AV 3A / 5AV 3A / 5AV
(including
Tuner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Audio Receiver 1A / 2AV 1A / 2AV 1A / 2AV 1A / 2AV
outputs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multi-Channel 7.1ch inputs 7.1ch inputs 7.1ch inputs 7.1ch inputs
inputs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Audio Preouts 7.1ch outputs 7.1ch inputs 7.1ch inputs 7.1ch inputs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital 7 in, 2 out 7 in, 1 out 6 in, 1 out 6 in, 1 out
(optical/ (optical) (optical) (optical) (optical)
coaxial)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Advanced Yes Sharc-EX Yes Sharc-EX Yes Sharc-EX Yes 48-bit
Digital Core & Freescale & Freescale & Freescale Freescale
Engine DSP DSP DSP DSP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suggested
Price $1600 $1300 $1000 $650
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Availability August 2007 August 2007 June 2007 July 2007
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Contact:

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc.
Christina Ramirez, 310-952-2388
christina.ramirez@pioneer-usa.com
or
Danit Ross, 310-526-5529
dross@gcigroup.com

From this web site:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070509/20070509005688.html?.v=1

It`s not looking good for I-Link users
But this news just broke yesterday ( 5/09/08 ) so it`s still to early do be sure.
If I`m able to get through to ( get an answer from ) Pioneer , I`ll post !!
G.
post #42 of 1583
3xHDMI on VSX-92THX is not enough
post #43 of 1583
I just got of the phone with Pioneer.
No word yet as to the " i Link" issue , they suggested that I call back in a couple of weeks.
They were trying to help , but just didn`t have the info.
Most of what they are getting is from Japan right now as far as info.
All this just broke yesterday , so it will take a few weeks to get the right info.
The Neural THX for ALL inputs on the `92 & `94 is confirmed thru Twice ( Neural + THX already closed the deal )
As far as other spec`s most are certain.
The `94 will have more Watts ( 140 ) and HDMI ( 4 ) , but i Link is still in question.
IMO-- It doesn`t look good for iLink on any of there new stuff , but like I said , it is still to early.
post #44 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapidlittle View Post

Faroudja scalers are a bit outdated I think.

Yeah, I was surprised by this too, very disappointing. It seems Onkyo is trumping Pioneer with a far better solution to this.
post #45 of 1583
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, I was surprised by this too, very disappointing. It seems Onkyo is trumping Pioneer with a far better solution to this.

What if they just put in a "better" faroudja scaler (better as in better than the previous one). Doesn't faroudja make a pretty wide range of scalers? I'm not sure why Faroudja is generalized. Are even their top-line products "outdated"? Moral of the story: Can it be generalized that the video performance will be "average" because the scalers are Faroudja?
post #46 of 1583
I think I found the new flagship model! Google "av land" then go to products, av amplifiers, then scroll down and click on "SC-LX90"
It says it is expected to be released in January 08 in the UK
I don't know how true the info is but that picture sure looks real!
post #47 of 1583
Bummer that the Home Media Gallery Audio is only available on the 94... Why don't more affordable receivers have this feature.
post #48 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schwartz View Post

Damn, I was hoping for a new flagship to replace my 49TX. How does the amp section of these "top-of-the-line" Elites (84, 94, etc) compare to the old flagships (49, 59)?

I have a 49TX and also the 84 and the 84 sounds damn near identical and in some ways it has it beat with the newer MCACC stuff.

I would expect these new receivers to sound as good or better than the 84.
post #49 of 1583
Since Onkyo appears to not be upgrading their TX1000 I may end up getting the 94. I was very close to getting the 84 recently and I am glad I held out!
post #50 of 1583
Well I have a very old Yamaha DSP-A1 /G , it`s still very good , however dated.
Here is a true story
I had the Elite DV-09 , you know the one that had the chroma bug via component.
Anyway , I hooked it up using just the S video ( to by-pass the bug ) , and the picture quality was amazing on my old plasma ( XS955 ).
Then I bought the new DV-79AVi and hooked it up via HDMI , expecting a 10X`s better picture.
Well as it turned out the old DV-09 hooked up via S video was a far greater picture , that`s how good the old stuff was from Pioneer "Elite".
So what happened ?
New and not so improved but cheaper toy`s to play with.
There is NO way that Pioneer could build something like the DV-09 and sell it for the price of a `79AVi.
So with that in mind , there is no way to get the quality of a branded "Elite" A/V rec. for 1600 bucks.
But if they made them like the `59 , it would cost way more than most would be willing to pay.
That is why , we will no longer see "Elite" stuff like the VSX-59 , the PD-65 ( cd player -imo the best ever made ) and the list goes on.
Just look at the build quality of todays "Elite" stuff compaired to say 10 ~ 15 years ago.
Remember the LD-S2 / 65lb laser disc player ? If we didn`t have dvd`s what kind of "top end" LD player do you think we would see ??
Unless your willing to pay , really pay , you can`t get the good stuff.
Don`t get me wrong , I`m a huge "Elite" fan , but I will always remember the quality old days !!
G.
post #51 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoND View Post

If Pioneer is watching this thread, I'll make this simple.

Include I-link and I'll upgrade my 74 series to a 94 series Elite.

Don't include I-link, and I'll go back to Denon.

I'm guessing I'm not the only one here either. For the first time, I chose Pioneer Elite over Denon on my last purchase, and my final deciding factor was the I-link for their SACD/DVD-A player of theirs that I still enjoy today.


I feel the same way. Except I may try Onkyo this time instead of Denon. The 875 seems like an impressive receiver.
post #52 of 1583
Yes, the i.Link front doesn't look good

Also, from the table it doesn't seems to be able to handle the lossless DTS HD Master Audio. Am I mistaken?

Is there any good way to use this as a compliment to my 59 such that I get the new HDMI 1.3 switching, DTS HD decoding, etc.? For instance, pipe all the preamp out from the, say 94, to the multi-channels analog input of my 59? Any thought?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Don`t get me wrong , I`m a huge "Elite" fan , but I will always remember the quality old days !!
G.

True... none of their new stuffs look like my DV-S10A DVD player and VSX-59TXi.
post #53 of 1583
I am happy to inform you that you have to make room to your AV furniture

the monster is here..... pioneer LX90

Denon 5308 is not alone anymore

Its specification is unknown yet but you will understand asa soon as you see it...

just check Avland , amplifier section Pioneer LX90


Greetings form Greece

Stratis
post #54 of 1583
In case you dont dind it ...
post #55 of 1583
In case you dont find it ...
post #56 of 1583
post #57 of 1583
Expected early 2008....

I think many of you will start saving money... (7000$)
post #58 of 1583
Quote:

That is one sexy beast. Support for i.Link is indicated on the front panel, and 10 HDMI inputs would seem fair.
post #59 of 1583
Quote:

Very nice. (In my Borat voice)
post #60 of 1583
LX90...Now we're talking!! This is what I had in mind. This appears to be a Denon giant killer.

I hope this (or a similar flagship) makes it to the US, and I'd seriously look at buying it to replace the 59. Otherwise, I'm finally done with Pioneer & will look at alternatives. AND they better make it available to dealers in Atlanta, too

Very reecently I tried to buy a DV79AVi player to replace an ailing 59AVi, and NO HT dealers or retailers in the Atlanta area could get me one; all said it was "unavailable". Robert at good ol' Value Electronics in SCARSDALE, NY, said he could and literally had me on a conference call with the manager of the distributor he buys from. The manager said I could even pick it up at their center in guess where....ATLANTA.

And this is not the only time I was told that one of their products was not available from Atlanta dealers and I could buy it from stores in Cincinnati, west coast, etc.

One of the HT dealers I buy from said he has had an order directly into Pioneer since late last yr for over $50K of gear for his new store and hasn't seen it yet.

People have reported being told by various Tweeters & Magnolias that the Blu-ray player was not available when it had been out for several months.

Pioneer is ***ked up on distribution.

ss9001
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