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Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 52

post #1531 of 7091
didn't craigsub buy 2?
post #1532 of 7091
one night with my new EX in the theater room and i'm happy so far. i'm waiting for the second one to get here (i know it could be a while) before any serious calibration because of my three-sub setup, but so far the only gripe is that it's showed me just how many rattle-prone areas there are in my basement!!!!!! i have the sub output at "3" with crossover bypassed (anything higher than that was way too heavy with my Onkyo 805's settings), on Bass Extension with the plug-block that came in it left inside. I have not experimented with the other setting without the plug yet, not much use for tweaking until i get all three subs set.

FYI, I had to move my Atlantic Technology THX sub to the back of the room instead of having two mismatched up front (while i wait for my second Outlaw to put up there)- the Outlaw is so much bigger, sleeker and impressive looking than the Atl Tech that it was just embarassing

so i have an empty space to remind me of what is coming
post #1533 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas View Post

didn't craigsub buy 2?

After a quick search, yes he did...
post #1534 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

Already? I thought they said up to a 45 day delay for the Plus and EX.
I ordered late last night also but have not heard anything from them yet.

Never mind I see you ordered the compact.

I ordered the Plus on Sunday and got FedEx tracking today. I thought it was 45 days delay. Not sure what happened there.
post #1535 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

one night with my new EX in the theater room and i'm happy so far. i'm waiting for the second one to get here (i know it could be a while) before any serious calibration because of my three-sub setup, but so far the only gripe is that it's showed me just how many rattle-prone areas there are in my basement!!!!!! i have the sub output at "3" with crossover bypassed (anything higher than that was way too heavy with my Onkyo 805's settings), on Bass Extension with the plug-block that came in it left inside. I have not experimented with the other setting without the plug yet, not much use for tweaking until i get all three subs set.

FYI, I had to move my Atlantic Technology THX sub to the back of the room instead of having two mismatched up front (while i wait for my second Outlaw to put up there)- the Outlaw is so much bigger, sleeker and impressive looking than the Atl Tech that it was just embarassing

so i have an empty space to remind me of what is coming

Congrats on the new addition(s)! I too just received my pair of EXs and they are happily sitting in my family room.

Using a Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver and the auto MCACC calibration, it set the sub channel to -10 db. To get any measurable output from the subs, I had to turn the gain to 7. I was not comfortable with that, so I turned the gain down to 5 and increased the sub channel to -5 db.

Can anyone comment on what the channel setting should be on the sub? I don't understand why the MCACC would want to attentuate the sub channel to -10 db when it set all other channels to +10 db.
post #1536 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratticus View Post

I was not comfortable with that, so I turned the gain down to 5 and increased the sub channel to -5 db.

That looks good...

I'm at 3.5 on the sub with 0 on the AVR...
post #1537 of 7091
whens craig adding this sub to his reviews?
post #1538 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie33081 View Post

whens craig adding this sub to his reviews?

His first impressions compared to the MFW-15's post number 68, "ugh."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1116384&page=3
post #1539 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

His first impressions compared to the MFW-15's post number 68, "ugh."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1116384&page=3

He's not gospel. The subs he's comparing are:

1) not in the same size class.

2) not in the same price class.

Anyway, he can certainly return the EX's and pay a lot more for (non-stock) MFW-15's and then hope to heck that the amps hold out long enough to make it through a movie.

Take it with a grain of salt, guys. Do you like your EX? Terrific, and you got a great price. I, for one, love my Compact.
post #1540 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDave View Post

He's not gospel. The subs he's comparing are:

1) not in the same size class.

2) not in the same price class.

Anyway, he can certainly return the EX's and pay a lot more for (non-stock) MFW-15's and then hope to heck that the amps hold out long enough to make it through a movie.

Take it with a grain of salt, guys. Do you like your EX? Terrific, and you got a great price. I, for one, love my Compact.

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post.
post #1541 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvn12345 View Post

I ordered the Plus on Sunday and got FedEx tracking today. I thought it was 45 days delay. Not sure what happened there.

I ordered mine on Sunday as well...nothing yet......
Possibly after clearing out the double orders or changed minds and mistakes you got lucky...sure hope I'll be getting that tracking number soon...
Bill
post #1542 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post.

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night.
post #1543 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversport View Post

I ordered mine on Sunday as well...nothing yet......
Possibly after clearing out the double orders or changed minds and mistakes you got lucky...sure hope I'll be getting that tracking number soon...
Bill


Not to be tar and feathered again....to all you recent COMPACT buyers the Fedex tracking statement states my COMPACT will be delivered Saturday to Virginia.........so yours shouldn't be too far behind.
post #1544 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night.

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.
post #1545 of 7091
Originally Posted by steeler
Not to be tar and feathered again....to all you recent COMPACT buyers the Fedex tracking statement states my COMPACT will be delivered Saturday to Virginia.........so yours shouldn't be too far behind.


...sure but I quoted kvn12345 who ordered a Plus on Sunday and already received his tracking number...the Plus is one of the two that is listed as out of stock (the other being the EX) with the 45 day wait...since I ordered my Plus on Sunday as well...gives me hope that 45 days might go by quicker than it usually does...
Bill
post #1546 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night.

craigsub, can you post a short 1-2-3 of how to tweak a sub? I know there may be something else already here or somewhere on the net, but just knowing your thought process and steps to "tweaking" would help greatly.
post #1547 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDave View Post

He's not gospel.

Now turn to Chapter 7, Verse 12, in the Book of Craig. Pray hard you sinner!
post #1548 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

How could that post be perceived in any other way to an Outlaw owner or potential owner?
post #1549 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.

Honestly, I was not getting what I thought I should have been getting with my original LFM-1. In my pursuit to maximize perceived tightness and extension as well as stop my wood floors from vibrating excessively I purchased the GRAMMA and it really appeared to help in a lot of areas. I still use it on the sub today and will recommend it to anyone looking for a cheap, quick tweak.

The nice thing about the sub which I'm sure applies to all there new subs as well is that it has always functioned as it was designed.

Oh and it should be noted that my original purchase of the LFM-1 was on a hunch and a good recommendation from gonk and craigsub.
post #1550 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratticus View Post

craigsub, can you post a short 1-2-3 of how to tweak a sub? I know there may be something else already here or somewhere on the net, but just knowing your thought process and steps to "tweaking" would help greatly.

The process of tweaking is going to be, for most relatively inexperienced subwoofer purchasers, a rather lengthy affair.

The basics one should follow should be ...

1. Make sure your subwoofer is calibrated properly to the mains in your system. An SPL meter is probably the most important tool for achieving this.

Most people opt for the Radio Shack meter.

2. Carefully read the receiver manual along with the subwoofer manual for set up.

For example, you want to make sure you set (in almost all cases) all speakers to "small" and the crossover to 80 Hz.

Use the test tone from the receiver - or better yet, from a disc such as Avia, to set proper phasing and SPL levels between the mains and the subwoofer.

3. Outside this, there are a lot of issues to look at - depending on Budget, decor, and listening preferences.

Room Treatments

Audessey EQ, or another auto EQ in one's receiver

To answer your question - no, there isn't a simple "123" answer - but if you start with the first two listed above, the rest will get easier.
post #1551 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

How could that post be perceived in any other way to an Outlaw owner or potential owner?

For most honest, mature readers, it will come across as a simple opening statement with a qualifier.

Those honest, mature readers are quite competent enough to read text completely.
post #1552 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post.

Have you seen the cost of shipping for the MFW-15?

$130-$196 so that makes it $829- $895 delivered.

If someone were to pull the trigger on one today you can't buy the black one because it is out of stock. You have to buy the wood veneer versions which are $799. So that makes it $929-$995 delivered.

The LMF-1 EX has free shipping so it is $649 delivered.
post #1553 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night.

Hey, when the "Alan Greenspan of Subwoofers" speaks, the market reacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedman1 View Post

Honestly, I was not getting what I thought I should have been getting with my original LFM-1. In my pursuit to maximize perceived tightness and extension as well as stop my wood floors from vibrating excessively I purchased the GRAMMA and it really appeared to help in a lot of areas. I still use it on the sub today and will recommend it to anyone looking for a cheap, quick tweak.

+1. The GRAMMA made a huge difference for my EX as well, even though I'm on carpet and pad over concrete. I suspect the GRAMMA provides more of a clearance benefit rather than isolation in my case.

Of course, EQing with REW and a BFD had an even greater impact.

To be honest, I see where craigsub is coming from. When I first got the EX, prior to optimizing placement, adding the the GRAMMA, and EQing with BFD I was initially not seeing a whole lot of difference between the EX and my BIC H-100. Here were my initial impressions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14412551
post #1554 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

For most honest, mature readers, it will come across as a simple opening statement with a qualifier.

Those honest, mature readers are quite competent enough to read text completely.

Nice non-explanation coming from a responsible writer.
post #1555 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.
post #1556 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by akrosdabay View Post

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.

I have a couple of the original Grammas at home - part of Day #2's testing was to try out the EX'es on them.
post #1557 of 7091
Just lurking here....waiting for my EX to arrive. It's out for delivery....could arrive at any time. Hey...while I wait...and I realize this might be the wrong place...but I need a receiver. I can't even hook my sub up until I buy a receiver.

I want to connect the sub, fronts, backs, PS3/BluRay to my new plasma. Any recommendations. So far I have been told Onkyo 876 or 805. I know the 876 is supposed to be stellar...but it's a bit of a push financially. I found the Onkyo 606 and 706 for a great price so those are options too. What else would you guys recommend? What are you using to power your set up? Thanks!
post #1558 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by akrosdabay View Post

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.

Here are a couple of pictures of the EX and GRAMMA. It's just about a perfect fit. Hope this helps.

EX bottom view next to GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...lawSub003a.jpg

EX on GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...lawSub002a.jpg
post #1559 of 7091
I'd just say to anyone who just ordered one of the Outlaw subs, please do not get concerned or deterred based upon Craig's initial reaction. First, it is one man's opinion. Second, while his opinion and he was free to express it, it was a bit premature perhaps based upon it not being "dialed in" yet. Third, he seems to be coming around a bit on his view of the EX. Fourth, many people (testers and owners) have determined over the years that Outlaw subs (and its brethren, HSU subs) are excellent. That hasn't changed. And this sale was a real bargain for anyone who got in on it.

If I listened to all of the naysayers in different threads who criticize my A/V receiver (the Yamaha 663), I'd hate that one too. Yamaha is bright. Yamaha sucks with music. H/K and Denon and Marantz sound so much better... Etc. But here's the fact--the 663 is great, sounds great (both music and movies), and is a huge bang for the buck. I was coming from 2 straight higher-end H/K receivers.

Anyway, let's see where Craig ends up in his thoughts. I suspect he will praise the EX, but prefer the MFW-15. Bear in mind also, that the MFW has the 15" driver, as opposed to the 12" in the EX. It is something of a different beast.
post #1560 of 7091
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstan99 View Post

Here are a couple of pictures of the EX and GRAMMA. It's just about a perfect fit. Hope this helps.

EX bottom view next to GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...lawSub003a.jpg

EX on GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...lawSub002a.jpg

Nice pictures...I need to get a couple of them gramma's...my carpet/padding is way too thick for a down firing sub.
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