Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 205

I lowered it between 1 and 2, which dropped it down to 7.5dB. I assume that being in the corner is increasing bass levels to the point where the receiver can't lower it enough? Is this correct?

Do you have an spl meter? How big is your room again?

Hi,
I am having exactly the same problems. Got mine 2 days ago and still trying to dial it in. Little update on my process, I started with gain at 3 on the sub and this resulted with -12.5 on the AVR(VSX-1121K). Turned down the gain to 2 on the sub and had -7.5 on the AVR. Turned down the gain to 1 and got -3.5 on the AVR. Finally, gain set to 0.75 on the sub and AVR is at -1.00. Needless to say very disappointed with the end result. You can hardly hear any bass response. Last night, I flipped over the EX facing the actual subbass to the back wall rather than the down firing position. Kinda a desperate act on my behalf to keep the subbass and not return it.

I honestly think all you new owners are expecting bass that sounds like a car set up lol. Try running it hot if you want. I usually go up by 2db on my set up

I am kinda boring never had a car setup before(AM talk radio rules). Regardless, my uneducated ears are not satisfied after all the calibration and time the gain set on the sub at 0.75. The user guide states to set the gain at 5. Anyways I am not giving up so quick. If wall facing doesn't work I will try front facing and report back.

well what are you using to test your subs? (music / movies). Room size? Wheres it placed?

This is how it looks like except the sub is now on the very left. I determined the placement by sub crawl. I use some familiar scenes from Terminator Salvation, Fast Five and couple music Cd's.

Have you tried any of the movies from the sticky on best lfe movies? What are you expecting from the sub? Or may I ask what its disappointing you?

Do you have Dynamic Volume engaged? Where are you placing the mics during the audyssey calibration. I've found that the guide by Audyssey doesn't really help. (Had some Audyssey pro calibrators tell me it's not advised to follow the guide completely).

I don't have an spl meter. The room is approximately 15x20 with a staircase to the right going upstairs and downstairs, as well as an open door to the kitchen. I called Outlaw and was told I shouldn't turn it down below 3. He thought that where my microphone is in the center of the couch might be giving me that reading and suggested moving the microphone far away from the listening position just to test it. I got the same results...-10dB and W3 level error. He then suggested I call Yamaha, which I'm about to do. I'm hoping it's the microphone.

I've never ran above 3! My rooms whacked

I just wish I knew more details about what exactly the calibration does to your subwoofer frequencies. I just got of the phone with Yamaha and he suggested I calibrate with the sub disconnected, then turn it on and adjust manually. What would be the disadvantage of doing this?

You might get some nulls and peaks. Very important IMHO to calibrate the low frequency

Hey JPowers, I have a similar setup and my gain is at 1 on the back of the sub. My AVR is the Marantz SR7005, and my 5.1 speaker setup is all Martin Logan (minus the sub of course). Have speakers set to small, crossover set to 80hz LFE for small speakers, and then ran Audyssey. Result was sub at -1.5db. Now I can adjust it via the AVR and not touch the sub. I haven't used my SPL meter as I just got back my AVR from the shop (blew a channel when setting up my surround rears).

Well, depends on what version of YPAO you have. Many Yamaha receiver models do not have any sub EQ. In that case, I think it's basically just setting delay, phase, and channel level.

I sometimes think this is linked to whether or not people like their new subs. Because all of the most basic Audyssey versions on Onkyo, Denon, and Marantz EQ the sub, too, it improves the quality of the sub output. People are more likely to be happy with a new sub with that feature. Subs often desperately need more EQ room correction than the rest of the speakers.

jaramill and vtnzr, it's good to hear that this is not just an issue with YPAO. I'm guessing it's just strange room acoustics. jaramill, how long have you had it set to 1? The guy at Outlaw seemed to think this was a bad idea, and I'm not sure why.

cel4145, the YPAO in my receiver does have a sub eq. I haven't studied the manual enough to figure out how to tweak things manually, but when I go into the menu under subwoofer, it says "param, reset, edit, exit," but they're all greyed out. The graph underneath is small and you can't zoom in to see that details, as far as I know. There's another section that says "PEQ Data Copy" with Flat, Front, Natural with the word "manual" to the right. It tell you to hit enter to "copy," whatever that means.

In the PEQ Select menu, you can choose between manual, flat, front, natural, or through. When you choose manual, you can then go back up to the previous menu that was greyed out under subwoofer, but now is selectable. Under "param," hitting enter cycles between Band/Gain, Freq./Gain, and Q/Gain. When you select edit under Band/Gain, you can choose between 4 bands and adjust the gain up and down. Under Freq. you can move from 31.3Hz all the way to 250Hz. There are 10 points in this range you can move the gain up and down. With Q it goes from 0.500 to 10.080 with 14 points to adjust the gain up and down.

OK, I just figured out what PEQ Data Copy does. You can copy what YPAO already did, whether it's flat, front, or natural and edit it just as I described above. This also enables you to see the details of what YPAO actually did. (If I knew what the hell I was doing, of course! )

Maybe, curious was the previous sub at the same corner? As a test move the sub further (or completely) away from the corner and rerun YPAO. Or reset the receiver back to factory default and retry YPAO.

Hi vtnzr, try moving the sub to the other side.

I'm no audiophile by any means, and I was also a bit disappointed when I first got my Outlaw, as this was my first excursion into HT outside of home theater in a box systems. I have an enormous room (about 4500 cu ft) and started with a Plus. I ignored what my YPAO set for my sub and set it manually. I run mine at a gain of 4 and set my receiver to 0.0db. I was certainly impressed at that point with the subs output. Scott from Outlaw said running it at that gain was perfectly fine, and it wouldn't become an issue until you push it past 6. I have since added an EX to my system, and run that at a gain of 4 as well. Whoa is all I have to say.

I'm with you! I have my gain at about 3. I use Audy for all my speakers, but with the sub, I have come to the point that I want to set it myself, just using Audy for the distance and such. Eventually when I find a spl meter, I will tinker around and fine tune it, but for now, everything sounds good to me.

Are you running in Max Extension or Max Output?
Also are using Dynamic Vol/EQ

I wanna build some sub stands this weekend. Is there a DIY thread for the Outlaw Plus and EX around here somewhere? Would like to get an idea of parts and materials, I know it is not much, but would like to use the best. I want it to look nice.

Yes, the previous sub was in the same spot. After my back heals, I may move it just to test the results.


Did you have the same issue that I'm having? When you set it manually, did you use the crossover on the back of the sub?

Remember not to change the gain after eqing!

Can you explain this a little more. Is there a EQ setting or step I am missing? Or are you referring to just running the Audyssey and using the SPL meter? Also I have Dynamic Volume off, but on the face of the Denon it says that the Dynamic EQ is on. Is there a way to adjust the Dynamic EQ?

Eq as in after running audy or ypao don't touch the gain. Adjust trim thru avr. To adjust dyn eq go to your audio settings than audy settings and you'll see ref level. Adjust to your liking. 0 being highest and 15 being lowest

Hi Guys,

I wanted to thank everybody for their efforts to help and resolve our issues. I placed the sub facing the wall sorta rear firing position and calibrated with one port pluged. It made a big difference. Also played with the phase control. It definitely sound better. I ran some sweeps from youtube, test tones etc. After 35hz to 10hz there isn't audible bass output but a different rumble. Best way to put is my wife was sitting right next to me and said " My ears are hurting".

I use my crossover on my receiver. And yeah I was a bit unimpressed at first. When I turned the gain up a bit it made all the difference in the world, and then I caught the bug. I needed more bass. So I found an unbelievable deal on a local pick up and bought an EX to go along with my Plus.

I run max extension on both, but am going to play with that this weekend and have my EX playing max extension, and try my plus with max output.

You should also invest in an Auralex Gramma Pad. I have both my subs on them and it for make a difference, IMO.

I was kinda out of budget and did a DIY version of the pad. I will try and post pictures of it tonight. Thank you.

Hi grizimes, I failed to try this with my dual EX. Please report back how it sound.