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Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 218

post #6511 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

What?
So far I'm enjoying it. Did you guys notice a difference in output/overall sound after the "break-in" period?
I'm currently running it ar +3db on the avr and have the volume knob on the plus set at 4. Its close to the right side of the room but about 5 feet away from the corner. I have it with the outlaw logo (front) facing the right wall.
Would it be better if I placed it in the left corner of the room with the logo facing towards me?

The only changes I've noticed in sound are from trying different locations, which I guess precludes me from noticing if there was any break-in change (although I lean towards "there wasn't any" I can't state it definitively).

My EX has the volume knob at around 1.5 or a little less, and Audyssey sets the trim to -6.5. I haven't really felt a need to bump it up, because I don't really want my house to collapse around me. I don't think the orientation of the thing makes a lick of difference with any sub, particularly a down-firing sub like the Outlaws.
post #6512 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

What?
So far I'm enjoying it. Did you guys notice a difference in output/overall sound after the "break-in" period?
I'm currently running it ar +3db on the avr and have the volume knob on the plus set at 4. Its close to the right side of the room but about 5 feet away from the corner. I have it with the outlaw logo (front) facing the right wall.
Would it be better if I placed it in the left corner of the room with the logo facing towards me?

All I was saying is, if you look at the pictures that were taken, you would think that it was just a big black box with acrylic glass on top. However after receiving mine, I didn't expect it to look as awesome as it did. The quality of the craftsmanship was excellent for the price(Black Friday Special).

I corner loaded my sub. I placed it in the front right of my setup. It has a little more output there. The downside is running along the left side of my living room is a couch that gets used often & while listening at this location the sub sounds boomy, but that's to be expected because it runs along the opposite wall.
Edited by cadett - 1/6/13 at 7:04am
post #6513 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

What?
So far I'm enjoying it. Did you guys notice a difference in output/overall sound after the "break-in" period?
I'm currently running it ar +3db on the avr and have the volume knob on the plus set at 4. Its close to the right side of the room but about 5 feet away from the corner. I have it with the outlaw logo (front) facing the right wall.
Would it be better if I placed it in the left corner of the room with the logo facing towards me?

Do a sub crawl test and you will know the best placement for your sub. I would not worry about breaking in the sub.
post #6514 of 7087
What do you guys prefer for music on the plus as far as max extension and max ouput mode?

Sent from my SGH-T889 aka "Galaxy Note 2" running the Force v6.1 using Tapatalk 2
post #6515 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

What do you guys prefer for music on the plus as far as max extension and max ouput mode?
Sent from my SGH-T889 aka "Galaxy Note 2" running the Force v6.1 using Tapatalk 2

Being that music rarely goes down passed 40hz it would serve no purpose going with ME. I would set it to ME or MO for movies and room situation. That way you dont have to mess with unplugging a port and switching the switch in the back.
post #6516 of 7087
I think I got the placement right today. The left corner is perfect! I now have the gain on the sub set at 3 and on the avr at +3db and its perfect.

On a side note, have you guys had any sort of like a rattling noise coming from the subwoofer when you crank it? When I set the gain on the sub to like 4.5 I hear this sort of rattling noise that goes away when I put some of my weight on top of the sub?

Sent from my SGH-T889 aka "Galaxy Note 2" running the Force v6.1 using Tapatalk 2
post #6517 of 7087
Are your feet tight? Are you set on top off the linoleum saucers, and not making good contact with one?
post #6518 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by hermeslyre View Post

Are your feet tight? Are you set on top off the linoleum saucers, and not making good contact with one?

Yes I made sure my feet were tight today and the spikes are on the linoleum saucers as the subwoofer would move and rattle into walls on the glossy tile flooring.

Could it be that the floor is not completely flat?
post #6519 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Yes I made sure my feet were tight today and the spikes are on the linoleum saucers as the subwoofer would move and rattle into walls on the glossy tile flooring.
Could it be that the floor is not completely flat?
Could be, but you shouldn't be using spikes on a tile floor. (You shouldn't have a tile floor in a listening room at all, but that's a different issue). Spikes are good when you have a carpeted floor, as the added grip will keep the sub from trying to move at high levels. With a tile floor you should have rubber feet. If you want to use spikes with a tile floor get a carpet remnant, cut it to the size of the sub, use double-sided tape to secure it to the tile.
post #6520 of 7087
Quick question: I recently got the EX and put it in my basement, which has brand new rather thick plush carpet.
Is there a recommended clearance underneath? I have it on spikes, but it seems like the woofer and ports are right there close to the carpet.
I am running it in ME.
Should I put it up on wooden blocks or something?
Thanks.
post #6521 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Could be, but you shouldn't be using spikes on a tile floor. (You shouldn't have a tile floor in a listening room at all, but that's a different issue). Spikes are good when you have a carpeted floor, as the added grip will keep the sub from trying to move at high levels. With a tile floor you should have rubber feet. If you want to use spikes with a tile floor get a carpet remnant, cut it to the size of the sub, use double-sided tape to secure it to the tile.

The Outlaws are down-firing, and I also believe that the threaded holes for spike mounting go through the chassis, so there isn't much choice about using the spikes. That being said, these subs come with dimpled discs intended to sit under the spikes in order to avoid damaging wooden floors. Either way your advice about putting something down between the sub and the tile makes a lot of sense.
post #6522 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw69 View Post

Quick question: I recently got the EX and put it in my basement, which has brand new rather thick plush carpet.
Is there a recommended clearance underneath? I have it on spikes, but it seems like the woofer and ports are right there close to the carpet.
I am running it in ME.
Should I put it up on wooden blocks or something?
Thanks.

I cut a piece of MDF to the size of the sub and have it sitting on that. That will get you around the carpet problem very effectively. I initially tried a couple of runners but found that one piece was a lot less difficult to deal with.
post #6523 of 7087
Thanks for your quick reply. I will give that a try.
post #6524 of 7087
Something else you might want to look into is the hard rubber matting that they use in health clubs (ala Sure Flexx Sports Tile.) They look like a giant jigsaw puzzle piece. Cut away the edges and they're perfect for your sub. Best bet is to cut a piece of hardwood to size and adhere a piece to either side. Better than anything you can buy on the market IMHO.
post #6525 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickmastajay View Post

Yes I made sure my feet were tight today and the spikes are on the linoleum saucers as the subwoofer would move and rattle into walls on the glossy tile flooring.
Could it be that the floor is not completely flat?
Could be, but you shouldn't be using spikes on a tile floor. (You shouldn't have a tile floor in a listening room at all, but that's a different issue). Spikes are good when you have a carpeted floor, as the added grip will keep the sub from trying to move at high levels. With a tile floor you should have rubber feet. If you want to use spikes with a tile floor get a carpet remnant, cut it to the size of the sub, use double-sided tape to secure it to the tile.

I am using the supplied dimpled disks because I have tile flooring. In the near future the tile will be replaced with wood flooring though.

So my best bet for now would be to purchase a carpet and cut it to the size of the plus and tape it to the floor?

Sent from my SGH-T889 aka "Galaxy Note 2" running the Force v6.1 using Tapatalk 2
post #6526 of 7087
Meat...I recently added a second sub hooked up to the Anthem....I have to guess its placement but it just seems it could be better sounding. Constantly mocing calibrating gets old. how do you have urs configured?
post #6527 of 7087
Hey sbr100,
I have my Outlaws both connected to the Sub 1 out of the Anthem, using a RCA splitter. The way I understand is ARC will not measure more than one sub, so I set the pair as a single, using the RCA splitter. I adjust the phase using subwoofer distance setting in the speaker setup menu in the Anthem, so that I get the highest SPL as measure by my meter at MLP. I also bypass the Outlaws crossover and use the one ARC sets, 120hz, if I remember correctly. I use ME mode, or one port plugged. Before running ARC, I adjust the volume on each sub, one at a time, so that their combined SPL is approx. 75 or 76db at MLP. I do add a little more volume to one of the subs, after uploading ARC, to balance the sound a little, since it is close to an opening in the room, which does seem to help keep the bass output more even. I also raise my subs a little, using hockey pucks under each of the feet, since I have thick, shag-like carpet, which does appear to add slightly more SPL when I measure. I hope I answered your question. Happy New Year.
post #6528 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

The Outlaws are down-firing, and I also believe that the threaded holes for spike mounting go through the chassis, so there isn't much choice about using the spikes. That being said, these subs come with dimpled discs intended to sit under the spikes in order to avoid damaging wooden floors. Either way your advice about putting something down between the sub and the tile makes a lot of sense.
I'd use carpet as outlined above, for two reasons. One is that by taping the carpet to the floor the possibility of sub dance is greatly reduced, if not eliminated. The other is that carpet will absorb above bandwidth harmonics, tile or wood will reflect it, so THD will be lower with the carpet there.
Quote:
Is there a recommended clearance underneath? I have it on spikes, but it seems like the woofer and ports are right there close to the carpet.
Quote:
I also raise my subs a little, using hockey pucks under each of the feet, since I have thick, shag-like carpet, which does appear to add slightly more SPL when I measure.
The response of down firing subs is affected by their height off the floor. There's no precise way for the user to predict it, you can only try various heights and see what happens. It's easily measured, but only if you have the gear to measure it with. IMO manufacturers of down firing subs should do the measuring and put the measurement files in the manual, if not actually providing ways of utilizing this method of fine tuning response. By the same token rear firing subs can be tuned by varying the distance to the wall, and front firing subs will usually work better if aimed at the wall.
post #6529 of 7087
Thanks very much.
post #6530 of 7087
I also had some rattling from my EX when cranked up. I think the noise was coming from the cabinet, specifically near the ports end of the sub. I laid it on its side and the rattling was still there. When I tilted it or applied some weight on it, the rattling went away. Maybe something is loose.
Edited by sonnybuns - 1/8/13 at 9:34am
post #6531 of 7087
I never heard anything from my ex's, but nice bass.
post #6532 of 7087
Been playing with positions and calibration of my new Plus I got during the Christmas sale. I have the gain on the sub at about 3.5 and audyssey sets the AVR trim to -8. It's loud but not really loud at this volume, so I bumped the AVR trim to -2 (6db hot over what audyssey set). Just wondering how far I can turn this thing up in the AVR trim setting without risking damage to the sub? I feel like at times I would like to run it above 0 on the AVR trim, but am wondering if increasing the trim in the AVR is the same as increasing the gain on the back of the sub? Any help is appreciated, thanks!
post #6533 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post

Been playing with positions and calibration of my new Plus I got during the Christmas sale. I have the gain on the sub at about 3.5 and audyssey sets the AVR trim to -8. It's loud but not really loud at this volume, so I bumped the AVR trim to -2 (6db hot over what audyssey set). Just wondering how far I can turn this thing up in the AVR trim setting without risking damage to the sub? I feel like at times I would like to run it above 0 on the AVR trim, but am wondering if increasing the trim in the AVR is the same as increasing the gain on the back of the sub? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Why not set the gain at 2 & rerun Audyssey? It sounds like there is maybe a noise issue affecting the calibration. If you set the gain on the sub to 75db at the first measurement location & Audyssey sets the reciever gain for the sub at -8 after, it sounds like something is interfering with the calibration process. I would think it should be within a +/-3db range after calibration. I would do a quick setup with the Basic Audyssey setup & then check the levels with a spl meter just to verify everything is going fine.
post #6534 of 7087
So long as Audyssey hasn't pegged, which on my Denon would mean -12dB, I don't think there's all that much advantage in shooting for a -3 to +3 range vs. -8, (or -6.5 as in my situation). Indeed, the lower Audyssey trims the sub channel, the higher you can raise it with channel level adjustments, so there's some incentive for the real bass-heads to shoot for a -8 or -10 trim.
post #6535 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

So long as Audyssey hasn't pegged, which on my Denon would mean -12dB, I don't think there's all that much advantage in shooting for a -3 to +3 range vs. -8, (or -6.5 as in my situation). Indeed, the lower Audyssey trims the sub channel, the higher you can raise it with channel level adjustments, so there's some incentive for the real bass-heads to shoot for a -8 or -10 trim.

If that's the train of thought. Feed it a 50hz signal, crank it, & see if it clips.
post #6536 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Why not set the gain at 2 & rerun Audyssey? It sounds like there is maybe a noise issue affecting the calibration. If you set the gain on the sub to 75db at the first measurement location & Audyssey sets the reciever gain for the sub at -8 after, it sounds like something is interfering with the calibration process. I would think it should be within a +/-3db range after calibration. I would do a quick setup with the Basic Audyssey setup & then check the levels with a spl meter just to verify everything is going fine.


Thanks, but sort of confused by the response.... If I turn the gain to 2 (from 3.5) on the sub then it will be less prominent (which isn't what I want). I have recalibrated several times and seem to be getting consistent results. I also have read numerous posts that say as long as audyssey isn't maxed out during calibration (+/-12), then it shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately I don't have an spl meter to test, but am mainly wondering how many db I can increase the sub trim with the AVR before risking my sub? I have heard many people run 3 db hot from what audyssey sets the trim at, but is there risk in running 6 db or perhaps even 8-10 db hot as long as it doesn't reach the +12 range on the AVR? thanks
post #6537 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post

Thanks, but sort of confused by the response.... If I turn the gain to 2 (from 3.5) on the sub then it will be less prominent (which isn't what I want). I have recalibrated several times and seem to be getting consistent results. I also have read numerous posts that say as long as audyssey isn't maxed out during calibration (+/-12), then it shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately I don't have an spl meter to test, but am mainly wondering how many db I can increase the sub trim with the AVR before risking my sub? I have heard many people run 3 db hot from what audyssey sets the trim at, but is there risk in running 6 db or perhaps even 8-10 db hot as long as it doesn't reach the +12 range on the AVR? thanks

It won't be less prominent, because one of the basic functions of Audyssey is to even out the SPL from each speaker in your system. If you turn the sub down, let's say enough to bring the level down by five decibels at the test tone volume, then your sub trim level will be set five decibels higher than it currently is, to '3'.

As for risk to your sub, I should think that it will be very low as long as you're so far inside the performance envelope of the machine. Unless you're already cranking the sub to half volume or something, I don't see how adding a bit more to the sub input signal is likely to cause any real issues.
post #6538 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

So long as Audyssey hasn't pegged, which on my Denon would mean -12dB, I don't think there's all that much advantage in shooting for a -3 to +3 range vs. -8, (or -6.5 as in my situation). Indeed, the lower Audyssey trims the sub channel, the higher you can raise it with channel level adjustments, so there's some incentive for the real bass-heads to shoot for a -8 or -10 trim.

Well, the common convention among Outlaw owners has been to optimize the gain on the sub with the input signal from the receiver by getting it close to zero. The opinion has been that there is some SQ improvement. Whether or not the effect is psychological, still seems worth trying first.

There is also one reason (more rumor; I've never verified it) that MultEQ may not be able to properly adjust sub frequencies when the trim level is too near the extremes.

Moreover, some people new to Outlaw subs, having come from budget subs which have a lot of distortion, are not used to the more refined sound. It's better to try it without all the extra bass added in first for awhile and see if one adjusts to the better SQ.

Finally, the problem could also be bad placement if a sub needs a ton of bass boost beyond what Audyssey determines. Could be there is a huge dip in the frequency response. Might be better to try a different position in the room before resorting to cranking it up with a big boost.
post #6539 of 7087
Set the sub with an spl meter to 75dB (or 72 with the Radioshack one). Run audyssey than adjust the subwoofer trim in the receiver if you want more bass. DON'T touch the sub amp gain knob after you run audyssey. If you do you risk damaging your sub severely. I damaged 3 out of 4 of my EXs on immortals by doing that. lol
post #6540 of 7087
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I damaged 3 out of 4 of my EXs on immortals by doing that. lol

Really? LOL

I'm sorry. I had to laugh. I could see how that movie could be especially punishing. I thought the plaster on my walls was going to come off when the mountain came down biggrin.gif
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