Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 220

If anyone would have them it should be Auralex. They do show a curiously amateurish graph on the subdude page that shows Impact Sound Transmission Loss (a term they must have made up) in the midrange, which is moot where a sub is concerned, while the chart stops above the subwoofer passband.
If you want to know how necessary these are, along with spikes and high priced cables, head on over to the DIY speakers and subs section. That's where the guys who really know how speakers work hang, and where you'll find some truly jaw dropping systems. You won't find any mention there of iso pads, spikes, or cables, because those guys know better than to waste money on things that don't work.

All recommendations of what is best for any given room is completely subjective. Most of us don't have any idea what a "perfect" listening position in a "perfect" room is like. Me, personally, my room is less than ideal, but I make due with what I have. My Auralex Grammas seem to help response in MY room. Could this be placebo? Of course. It is all a matter of what any person is willing to spend their hard earned money on. I would personally never advocate high priced cables, but am rather giving my opinion on something I've had experience with.

That being said, again to any Outlaw owners I would suggest (and recommend) a product from Auralex.

Again, my room is less than ideal, and I, personally, feel like I achieve a better response from my subs on Grammas. IMHO, if you're spending that much money on a sub, what's an extra $40 to produce a bit more of an expectation?

Keep in mind this is all coming from someone who originally had the gain on their sub at 5+, and did not understand anyone on this forum who had theirs set at less than 2. Mine are both now set at less than 2.

Dedicated HT rooms VS functional HT "areas" are a very different being.

Would I love a dedicated HT room? Of course, who wouldn't? Realistically, we all make due with what we have, whether it be WAF, or functionality.

I, personally would love to be able to afford a room with bass traps, diffusers, and such but in a living space, that does not, have a chance at functionality. Any who are considering, and I'm sure there are plenty DIY's to making products similar to those that Auralex produces, but myself, I'd rather just fork the money for a Gramma.

I understand everyone likes porn, so I'm here to give you some more lol.

I decided to finally join the team. I'm upgraded from a ED A3-250, my driver blew like 2 years ago, so it's time for me to feel a little bass. lol

Take it off! Take it ALL off!



The paper covering the plexiglass top, of course, what did you think I meant?

Got a question for anyone who might be able to give some input. I've had my new plus sub for about 2 months now and am enjoying it. Something strange happened today; when I turned the system on the power button on the back of the sub was green but nothing was coming out of the sub for sound. I checked everything in my denon and nothing was changed, made sure connections were tight, then went into the receiver and tried to play with the trim level. Not even a test tone was going through the sub??!!. I turned off the receiver a few times and back on, but no sound was coming from the sub. All of a sudden about 20 min later sound started coming out again. I know this is probably a tough symptom to diagnose, but has anyone had this happen before? I don't know whether this could be something with the sub that's wrong or the receiver. Debating calling Outlaw but the sub is working now so not sure what to do....

^^^
What position is the power toggle switch in (Off/Auto/On)? Perhaps if it is set to Auto, you weren't sending enough of a signal for the sub to turn on. Are you certain the bulb was green? Just because the receiver was on, does not necessarily mean the sub was receiving a signal. Also, re-check you cables.

I checked all the power toggles on the back and they were all fine. I do have it in the auto on position, but usually it's red if not receiving a signal (it was green). I also turned the volume up on the receiver and tried two different sources so that I could test if it wasn't getting enough signal, but still had no sound. I also checked the fuse on the amp and pulled the driver to check connections and they all seem fine too. I am 100% positive the amp light was green. I even tried powering the sub off and on three times and it still had no output. I've been playing it now for about 2 hours and it seems to be functioning properly up till now, so not sure if this was maybe just a fluke or whether there's a potential problem going on...

Hmmmm....really strange. What I am about to tell you is not recommended but won't hurt anything.

Next time that happens unplug the RCA connector from the avr with the power on and the power to the sub on. Touch the end of the RCA cable with your finger. You should get a feedback sound from your sub.
or
plug your ipod or phone or what ever into the sub directly.

what this will tell you is if the input on the amp is bad/going bad or if the output on your avr is bad/going bad.

Also change out your RCA cable just to rule that out as well. It is a possibility that the solder points on the actual connector are coming apart or cracked.


This is the only thing that I can tell you without actually being there to help you.
good luck

Thanks, that seems like some solid advice. I will try that when/if (hopefully not) this happens again and report back with my findings

mattdub1
If PI's tips don't reveal the problem for you, you can contact Outlaw support. They are very helpful & easy to deal with. It's not a painful experience like calling Comcast or AT&T.

While you note that it can not be predicted, is there a general rule of thumb for how response or what attributes of response varies with distance from floor? What factors make it unpredictable?

It actually can be predicted, but the average user doesn't have the software that will do so, or the skill to use it. When close enough to the floor the space between the speaker and the floor becomes an extension of the cabinet, and varying that distance will change the tuning, and therefore the response, of the speaker. Get it just right and the speaker will go lower with no ill effects.

Makes sense about the tuning.

Is it safe to assume that with the feet/spikes provided by Outlaw that the gap created is above the threshold of using that under space as an extension of the cabinet and that raising it higher will not affect response due to this effect (although it may for other placement reasons)? Would it only be lowering that gap that may change response?

I have no interest in changing response, but I do have the feet on four individual rubber pucks which effectively has raised my LFM by 1" over the factory spikes. Could this hinder the designed response of the sub?

I watched the Bourne Legacy last night at around -10 on the Denon. There were two times where the bass went very low and I heard port chuffing or the driver fluttering on the carpet. Isn't his a bad thing to hear this noise? I heard this on my Klipsch RW10d alot, so thought that upgrading to the Plus would take care of this.

just run it in MO mode and take the plug out of the other port. Running in ME mode doesnt really go all that much lower and you really will not be able to tell because the difference is so small IMO. Running it in MO mode however, you will notice the sub is a lot louder. My .02 cents

Thanks, but I'm already running it in MO mode... any other thoughts? is this normal behavior?

With both ports open you should not hear port chuffing. It could have been that the Fq was so low you could not hear the bass but just the air moving. It is probably just that. You may know this already, but you cant hear below 20hz just feel it.

You'd have to measure the response with feet (actually they should be called legs) of various heights to know. +1. If you do you're overpowering it or sending it frequencies too low for it to handle, or both.

I can get my LFM PLUS sub to chuff in MO mode...it is usually when I am trying to run the sub hot along with a loud master volume setting and a big, low bass scene. Do you have the sub calibrated to 75dB? Is there any EQ applied via room correction software on your AVR or an outboard EQ?

How loud do you guys listen to movies? How hot are you running your subs?

I run my subs +2db hot and do movies at -20db and I never have had chuffing out of my dual LFM-1 Pluses which both are in ME with 1 port plugged.

I listen at reference level and if the wife is around about -5dB. The subs output combined is 75dB or flat to the speakers...

You are good to go at these settings...

Thanks for the replies. I have audyssey multi eq applied on my denon 590. Sub gain is set to about 3 on the sub amp, running 3.5 db hot in the avr trim, which from what I read is common among alot of people. I had the receiver volume at about -7 when this happened and it was mainly on a very low frequency. Could it just be what Pain Infliction said? Is this just air moving or am I damaging my sub? I find it hard to believe with these settings that I was pushing it past it's capabilities in output, but maybe this was just a really really low bass note? Thanks

It is often recommended to run the LFM Plus in MO for music - that makes sense to get the most dynamics and the lowest distortion as most music does not have anything below 25hz.

However some music does, especially electronic and organ music. So to people change to ME for certain music? If so, how to decide?

Also if one generally listens as lower to moderate volumes, do the differences in distortion/output matter? Are they noticeable? Of course at lower listening volume the lower frequencies may not be audible/feelable anyway.

I've noticed in calibrating (MCACC) that for identical microphone positions that the sub output is set 2-3db higher when in ME mode vs. MO. What have others noted? Taking out the room effects, is there a known actual difference?

I really do think it was a sub 20Hz signal that was sent to the sub. Not all that uncommon in a movie. Also, I could be wrong but doesnt multi eq have a 10db or 11db boost on the LFE channel?

It should be that way because the sub is moving less with the same amount of power. this is the difference between a sealed sub and ported sub. The same driver in a sealed box will take more power to reach the same spl of the same driver in a ported box. The driver in the ported box will move a lot more(x max). This is somewhat the same as the Outlaw except that one or the ports is closed. This is still restricting the driver a little and this is why it is a little bit less in the spl's.

Of course, but that is not the question. What I am curious about is either if there is a known specific difference in output (at matched test conditions) between the two modes or what others are seeing as difference in their setups/rooms.

Also I assume that there is different internal amp EQ applied for each mode - hence the ME vs. MO switch. It could have been designed electronically so levels are matched at same output.

Running 3dB hot requires a doubling of power and Audyssey is know for boosting the low end quite a bit as well (it does in my room)...even at a MV of -7dB, the offending frequency could have been above reference level...

You are right, you are hearing the air move through the ports and it is a sign that you are pushing things a little hard...I hate the chuff sound because it takes me out of the movie.


I agree...Audyssey Multi EQ XT was increasing my low end by 10dB. This is way below the tuning of the sub...

Yes. See the measurements for the EX at data-bass.com (scroll to the bottom of the page for links).

It has been a while since I looked at this but IIRC, Max Output will have a +2dB at the tune and above (25Hz?) and Max Ext will be linear until 16Hz to 18Hz in room.

I have always worked on this assumption...

I have some graphs ME vs. MO. I will see if I can find them...

Perfect...thanks cel.

I would subtract 2dB to get an idea what the PLUS sub would do...