Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 4

Ah ok, another Energy owner. I had dual S10.3 subs and find the Outlaws to be just as musical. Since I've never owned an SVS sub I can't make a comparison but from what everyone has stated they find the HSU subs to be more musical.

Since you've had an S12, if I were you I would get the LFM-1 EX (only $20 more than the HSU sale price) since I'm a firm believer in upgrading whenever possible when getting new gear. Not that the LFM-1 Plus wouldn't be an upgrade, I have no doubt it would outperform the S12, it's going to give that extra edge over the Plus which may make it seem like more of a difference between it and the S12 - if that matters to you. Otherwise the Plus is a fine choice and will perform really well.

I would stay away from the 3.3 since it could generate port noise. I too find this distracting which is why I had to get down firing ports.

You could also call Outlaw and talk with them about your wants and concerns, they will speak frankly with you and not sell you anything you wouldn't be happy with.

Thanks a lot reverse. Mind if I ask you if you have ever heard the Mirage S12? It sounds like the EX would be a step above. Also, ever heard the HO?? Just wonder how much better it is compared to the 3.3 and the EX?? Anyways, thanks for the help. Have a great weekend.

I've heard them (S12) but not much experience with them overall, I know my dual 10s would put out higher SPLs than a single S12 but wouldn't go as deep (a single LFM-1 Plus out do my duals fairly easy). As far as the HO vs the 3.3 or EX, the EX is actually rated to go as low as the HO (16hz). However, the HO has 500 watts and is heavier, spec wise the EX is closer to the standard 3.3 but is rated deeper than the 3.3. Not quite sure what the difference would be other than that since I haven't compared them in person audibly.

I would talk to Dr. Hsu (from HSU obviously) or Peter from Outlaw to get definitive differences or you could post in the official HSU sub thread here and ask. I'm sure it's been asked before possibly.

Well, I know that the HO uses a more advanced driver aka Xbl^2 technology of some sorts. From what I garner, it allows the HO to extend deeper with very little distortion resulting in more linearity. As you mentioned, it also has more power and as such displaces more air. Therefore, I assume the HO is more capable down low which is of no real benefit to me. Craigsub did mention on his forum that the HO was a "bit" better than the 3.3 musically speaking. It is kinda out of my price range anyways. The EX may just be a true bargain for what it does performance wise. Thanks once again for your help. I will probably call Outlaw sometime next week. I also plan on speaking with Dr. Hsu as well. I have spoken to him before but it has been a while. Just curious as to what he has to say as I know he is a very nice guy.

Why doesn't HSU or SVS get out of the 12"/13.5" size range for their flagships? No replacement for displacement. Althought the PB13 is a fairly good performer, the Conquest seems to be taking over from an output perspective. If HSU has XBL tech of some sort, they might as well apply it to a larger driver. Some users here yearn that deep extension that a 12" or 13.5" can't deliver.

Hello spezzy point well taken. However, I am NOT looking for sheer output or SPL BUT rather musicality. Tight, fast, punchy, well-defined, lots of detail and separation, while maintaining distinctness in the transient response. If the sub I end up buying is very good musically AND can offer decent extension for ht, then I would be very happy. However, I do NOT need it to disturb my neighbors and have the police here knocking on my door. I am sure you can understand.

Yes, you're right that one should try out both modes. I recently lowered my LFM-1 Plus sub volume from 6 to 5. (Yes, I know it's sacrilegious to turn down the bass. ) But even then, during high bass scenes, I can hear the subwoofer as about to hearing the bass, if that makes sense. The sub kind of makes a popping sound. Could it be that the sub volume is set too high that it can't handle playing all that LFE?

It's not technically Cyber Monday any more, but Outlaw has a new subwoofer sale going.

The Outlaw LFM-1 EX for $549 DELIVERED is a very good buy, especially for someone who needs a sub that is pretty good looking. Probably about a $175 savings because they are giving free shipping on top of $100 off the price of the sub itself.

These subs are designed by Dr. Hsu, who is also designing subs for Dayton.

Wish I had known about this sooner because I just ordered a Hsu VTF-3.3. Oh well, I am still happy as I got a good deal on my 3.3. However, I do hate paying $100 for s&h.

The site says $549 plus shipping, not $549 delivered.

all b-stock prices include free shipping---good deals to be found there

They are working on one. I talked to Scott at the Denver Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, and he confirmed it. I think they need a new chip that is being designed, but it won't be out until sometime in 2008. I am waiting for it.

Sorry for the cross post, but I would assume all you Outlaw Lovers will have heard this one before.

I am 2ch. Old school amp/pre amp so I'll be using the speaker level inputs.

Most subs seem to have only one set of high level connectors - inputs but no outputs. You wire the mains in parallel to the sub and the sub presents such a high impedance load that the main speaker signal path is unaffected.

As you all know, Outlaw provides in and out high level binding posts so you can pass the signal through and impart the effect of the crossover on both the sub and the main speakers (in this case, some small stand-mounted monitors rolling off at about 70Hz)

My question is:

Do I have to wire my speakers off the sub, or can I used the same wiring approach used on other subs - wiring in parallel. I understand that the full freq content will be going to the main speakers, but that is the case now. All I need to do is dial in the xover for the sub and I should be in business?

Received my LFM-1 Compact a few days ago and thought I would chronicle my experience:

After reading and researching for weeks, I had narrowed my choices down to:
1. Hsu STF-2
2. Outlaw LFM-1
3. eD A3-250
4. BIC H-100

I eliminated the eD due to it's size, finish (WAF) and shipping charges. The BIC was eliminated due to worries about boominess, construction quality and warranty fulfillment. So I was down to the Hsu and the Outlaw (thank goodness for their Xmas sale). Their specs were for all intents and purposes, the same. Their final prices after shipping, were within $2.00 of each other. The Outlaw came out on top by a whisker due to a slightly more powerful amp, and it's looks. Anyway, I pulled the trigger and waited for my new baby to arrive.

Fedex delivered the box and the packaging was much larger than I had anticipated. Turns out subwoofer is double boxed in fairly heavy duty cardboard. The subwoofer itself is isolated from the inner box by soft foam protectors at each corner. To top it off, the unit is encased in a soft fabric bag. Very nice. I feel pretty certain that the subwoofer could have survived a fairly substantial drop, although to FEDEX's credit I didn't detect any evidence that anything like that had occurred. Upon unpacking and setting up the speaker, I came across what would be my only disappointment (and a relatively small one at that). Packaged with the subwoofer were a power cable and 4 plastic spike feet. I had been expecting 4 metal spike feet and 4 metal dimple discs, as that's what was listed in the owner's manual. The plastic feet aren't unsightly and are certainly functional, but I hadn't expected Outlaw to cut corners on such a small item. Like I said, not a big deal, but it was a little disappointing. The size of the unit was exactly what I had envisioned and fit perfectly in the limited space available. As subwoofers go (well, black ones anyway), this is a very good looking unit. The satin finish contrasts nicely with the gloss top, and the beveled top edge makes it a little more interesting than the typical squared-off box design.

I connected the Outlaw to my Onkyo 705, pulled out my Rat Shack digital SPL meter and ran through some test tones. Ran the Onkyo's Audissey MultiEQ, then double-checked with the SPL meter again just for grins. Loaded my Tranformers HD DVD for the moment of truth, and HOLY CRAP!...so this is what I've been missing! Some of the LFEs shook the whole house and really made me feel like I was in the middle of the action. I was grinning ear to ear. Thus far I've also tested the Bourne trilogy, the Matrix trilogy and I'll be testing out 300 (all on HD DVD) as soon as I get a chance.

For music listening, I started going through some of my David Sanborn collection (as well as some other jazz) and it was like hearing them new all over again. I haven't upgraded my speakers yet (that's my next project), but I was stunned that a quality subwoofer would make the old system sound so good. On the "Pearls" disc, the clarity and resonance of the acoustic bass was something that I hadn't noticed before, but was keenly aware of during this listening. I plan to dust off some of the CDs I haven't listened to in a long time, and give them all another go'round. Probably the best endorsement I could have gotten was from my son who is a car audio basshead (currently he's got 2ea. 10" Boston Acoustic G5's and a 15" Digital Design installed). After playing some of his favorite deep bass Hip Hop and test tones on the Outlaw, he was somewhat shocked with how low yet tight the bass was. He wanted to know if Outlaw made subwoofers for cars...something they might want to think about. Nah.

Thus far, I've been absolutely thrilled with the Outlaw. The design, good looks and construction made it an easy sell to the Finance Dept. But for me, the most important factor has been the sound quality - the deep, taut, non-boomy bass has exceeded my expectations. I plan to enjoy this Outlaw for a long, long time. Now, if I only could have gotten those metal spike feet and dimple discs......


Update on the spike feet:
I contacted Outlaw via their web form and received a reply the next day. Apparently Outlaw has changed the specs for the Compact accessories. Because the Compact requires taller spikes (more clearance), they've switched to the taller plastic spike feet. As long as they're functional, well built and not an eyesore, I'm ok with them. Only time will tell whether they're well built. Also, the dimple discs should be included regardless of the type of spike feet, so Outlaw is shipping out the discs to me. Thus far I've been pleased with their customer support.

Hmmmm, mine came with very heavy metal spikes and dimpled discs. I'll bet if you give a quick call to the Outlaws they'll hook ya up for free. Notice I said CALL, not email. I've found it's the best way to get a response.

Lol, you pulled this thread out form death. I forgot about it. Here's where my EX ended up.



My wife took my mom down into my ht basement to watch Die Hard 4 on Xmas. I was upstairs playing Wii with the kids on the other side of the house. I was laying on the sofa and the bass from Die Hard was rattling the sofa like a SOB and this is through double insulation (R19) in the ceiling with 3 of Styrofoam in between.

They didn't even have the system turned up like I usually do.

The thing rattles stuff 2 floors up through all my sound proofing.

@openhelix, was your model also an LFM-1 Compact? Looks like I will have to give them a call, I sent them an email regarding this issue last week and have yet to hear back from them.

@tleavit, I must confess that part of my motivation was to keep this thread from disappearing from the radar. BTW, I've viewed some of your other project photos and that's quite a setup you've got. It must've been a blast to put it all together.

I too was expecting a little more than plastic spikes when my LFM-1 compact arrived. They are similar to the ones that came with my Celestion subwoofer, same indentations, shape (same factory, different mould). I'm satisfied with the plastic spikes, they do the job and aren't seen by anyone.

Your packaging impression mirrors mine as well as your purchasing thought process. When I opened mine and looked inside I was surprised to not see
any internal bracing except at the joint lines and very little insulation (which didn't surprise me).

As you noted in your excellent review it is a "musical" sub and I'm also having a blast running thru my cd collection.

Nope, mine is the LFM-1 Plus. I've not seen or heard the compact. I got an LFM2 for the bedroom for christmas, but it might be going back to outlaw in exchange for an LFM1+ or compact.

How do you like the LFM2? It's more in my budget range-especially whilst on sale

It's okay... it lacks the punch of the LFM1+. You can hear the bass, but you dont get the punch in the chest the way you do with the LFM1+. It is, however, a very musical and quick sub. Depends what you're looking for.

I'm probably 85/15 Music and seems that even my DVDs are music-The Last Waltz is GREAT in my book. Just Have Basic Cable-no HBO, Don't rent from Netfix or BlockBuster
Listen to mostly classic rock-Floyd,Who,Some Jazz, Fair amount of Blues

Seems like it might suit me well

Hey Guys couple questions on the LFM-1 Compact... first how deep does it get, how musical is the tone (i hate boomy bass)? How much deeper does the plus get? On outlaw's website it says 25hz for all the LFM-1 models but i know that can't be right with different size drivers...

I want to thank you for this excellent post. I just replaced my aging AVR with a 705 and have been looking to upgrade my speakers starting with the sub. Your review here has me heavily leaning towards the LFM-1 compact. While the EX appeals to me I really can't justify the extra $233 (sale pricing plus shipping) for it as I run a custom 18" sub with my bi-amped modded Maggies in my main stereo system. I simply need a good solid performing sub. Cheaper units like the BIC H-100 look to be less competent than I'd like. Gonna sleep on this tonight ($396 and change shipped)!

@kip_,
According to Outlaw, the LFM-1 Compact is essentially flat to 25hz. I've played 20hz test tones on it, so it will definitely go there, but I couldn't tell you what the drop-off in decibels would be. I assume you'd be looking at the EX since the Plus is currently out of stock, and the EX can be had at the same price as the Plus (until the end of the year). From the specs I've seen, the EX is essentially flat to either 22hz or 16hz depending on how you tune the ports. See my previous post regarding my impressions on the Compact's performance.

@Bob A (SD),
I continue to be impressed with this "Compact" dynamo. I've had time to sample some Marcus Miller and Mary J Blige CDs, and the Compact was up to the task on both. Whether Marcus was furiously slapping his electric bass or plucking a fretless, the Compact did an excellent job of delivering sharp, tight bass attacks. The Mary J Blige disc was loaded with deep, thumping tones and the Compact never waivered. I also loaded up my Lord of the Rings DVD to play the Bridge at Khazad-dum chapter (as recommended elsewhere in this forum), and it was truly an earth shaking experience. This is going to be my new subwoofer demo disk. Sick.

Frankly the musicality is what is giving me cause for pause in the sense that I don't want to pay for what I don't need if it is a trade off for HT performance. My HT system will be used 95% for video as, being a tad redundant, I have a full bore separate stereo dedicated to music here:



If the musicality is just a plus then great Specs show -2dB @ 25Hz and a SPL max of 112dB. The H-100 is -3dB @ 24Hz with an SPL of 115dB. Unfortunately neither set of specs is necessarily indicative of output volume reality below 30Hz. Looking at a difference of almost $160 I'm conflicted as to which would really best serve me here. Compromise is already in play due to the fact that the size of my HT room is larger than either of these subs are optimal for.



I guess I'm trying to assess how significant the low note visceral impact is from both the LFM-1c and the H-100 without having heard either
Craigsub's list isn't all inclusive but looking at the H-100's 78 point (40, 38) score and the Hsu VTF-2 Mk 3 w/o turbo score of 86 (40, 46) may be instructional. The LFM-1c is virtually the same as a Hsu STF-2 which isn't scored on the list. The VTF-2.3 that is has a 12" driver vice the 10" of the LFM-1c / STF-2 yet it scores the same HT rating of 40. Musically it excels not unexpectedly over the H-100 46 to 38. Forcing some extrapolation here the LFM-1c probably wouldn't score any higher than 40 for HT either which again ties with the H-100. In like fashion it should score much higher on the music side of the ledger than the H-100. But since I don't need those qualities it comes down to just the HT scores for my needs. This exercise again reinforces my quandary about whether the extra cost for the LFM-1c over the H-100 delivers anything useful for me. Argh Sigh Oh BTW I'm now retired which is why I'm taking a harder look at costs these days.

I totally agree you made the best choice, well that or HSU and toss a coin. I understand when you say you ruled out the ed due to finish, waf and I would even add wait time but when you said because of shipping? ED offers free shipping. Well at least up till now. I've read they are restructureing their prices as of the 1st so that may or may not continue.

Also I've had several dealings with Bic CS and every experience has surpassed my expectations but i can understand your concern with not being able to find as much info on that topic in comparison to the other companies.

Didn't mean the hijack I just wanted to throw that in there so other people that might not know don't get the wrong idea. Enjoy

Thanks a lot. Unless I save up for an Epik Valor then I'll probably get the LFM-1 Compact.

How much longer is this sale good for? (hoping for a January bonus)

Has anybody had an Outlaw sub shipped to Canada?