Legacy Audio Speakers - Page 5

I should have added one minor complaint. The binding posts are not my favorite feature. They ARE very substantial, I DO appreciate the ability to bi-amp, and if you use banana connectors, you will have no gripes about them at all. If you prefer spades, you may not be as happy. The knobs are not knurled, and the ability to make a tight connection with spades is a bit awkward and takes a little more effort than I like.

But again, a very minor gripe overall, and primarily a matter of ergonomics, not quality.

Steve,
That was a better review than even Stereophile could have done! Very informative and answered any question I could have. Thank you

On a side note, I am running a Wyred for sound amp rated at 1000W at 4 ohms for each speaker and could not be happier. Legacy speakers are very efficient but still love the power. At one point I bi-amped them with another 1000W. I have never heard such controlled bass even comparing them to Revel Salons, which I used to use as a benchmark. I had the amp on hand to experiment with but under normal conditions you would not utilize that much power. I, like you, don't listen at insane volume but like to open them up for certain demos when guests are over. At normal levels I could not tell the difference between single/bi-amping. Hope you enjoy the speakers. Just counting the days down until I buy another pair! Cheers

Jason

Jason:

Thank you, you are too kind.

I have considered the W4S amps for awhile now. A new amp(s) will likely be my next addition, simply because my vintage PS Audio is getting so long in the tooth , and because I would like a little more margin on power and current delivery. But I'm also sensitive to how any new amp will sound in the first few watts, since the Sigs are relatively so efficient.

Lately I've been thinking of something like one of the Modwright amps, to get some nice pure Class A bias going for the first 10 watts or so. But I am completely open at this point. I probably will stick with transistors again, as the W4S STP-SE preamp more or less makes the potential "need" for a tube preamp a relative non sequitur. In my opinion, it's that good. If you are a tube roller, so be it, but I'd just as soon avoid the maintenance and hassle.

I will say that a little birdie hinted to me that W4S may be coming out with some interesting products on the amp side of things later this year. Maybe some "statement" pieces forthcoming?...

Steve

Steve (lateralgs), Congrat's man. May you have many, many awesome listening years to come from the Sig's. They truly look great. I know what you mean though the photo's you posted don't do those Sig's justice. Great review so far and probably more to come (I hope). I love reading reviews about the Sig's since there is so few about. You articulate very well. Like wine tasting, I it's hard for me to write down what I hear or (taste). You do a great job.

I just got back from a four day business trip and the first thing I did was........you guessed it, put on some tunes man (besides saying a quick hello to the spouse and dog). Man I missed hearing those sounds coming from the Sig's. I will follow up on some of the things I experience as well.

Andre

Hey, thanks Andre! But I think you did a great job describing your impressions! Keep 'em coming. I thought it was funny that in describing your first listening impressions with the Sigs, you mentioned three of the same discs I had listened to the very same day you first listened to your Sigs! Too funny...

Yes, I know exactly what you mean about missing having the ability to go relax right in the sweet spot of your sound system and let the music of the moment perform those miraculous stress-relieving wonders we all enjoy so much.

I swear, next to one or two other things I can think of but won't mention here (this IS a "family show," right??..) that's about the best thing I can think of to unwind and take a well-deserved break.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Sigs so much too, man. It's great to know others are getting the same kicks, isn't it??

I'm about to be out of town working a couple days myself, so I need to have a good listen tonight to tide me over... :^)

Cheers,
Steve

OK, so last night I retired to the listening room, turned out the lights, opened the blinds to let the starlight in, and listened to Beck Mutations. The sound was very entertaining, and I was particularly struck by the high frequency reproduction of triangles and electronic widgets and so on. Crazy quick and oh so transparent.

Then I listened to an old favorite, or rather one cut off an old favorite LP/now CD, "Montana" from Frank Zappa's Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation. Absolutely the best I've ever heard it. Frank's voice was incredible...the detail in his deep voice was really so natural in timbre I felt like he was literally in the room. The background vocals by Tina Turner & The Ikettes were excellent...very clear and discernible...but even more impressive was the oh-so-detailed and natural sounding and impactful reproduction of Kin Vassy's repeating refrain "Yippy-aye-o-ty-aaaay" at the end fade out. Absolutely sent chills up and down the back of my neck. It was so freakin' good I listened to it 3 times in a row. Also, all the super-quick percussive sounds of all varieties and frequencies that are on Frank's studio stuff were so well-rendered I thought I just might cry a little. Tight tight tight. Awesome.

So just to put a big exclamation point on the evening, I spun the DVD-A version of Metallica's "Enter Sandman." I have never listened to this disc all the way through, because ultimately it's just not my cup 'o tea. But that cut is always good for a thrill at high volume, and the impact these Sigs carried through my listening room was incredible. I can't even imagine what the Focus SEs could do with a piece like that!

Steve, please don't get me thinking about the Focus SE's! My head spinning as it is with the Sig's. Listened to music most of the day today and started experimenting with the speaker front face angle with the feet adjustment. Really want to focus like a laser beam on that sweet spot. Also starting to listen to 5.1 DSD. I originally thought that two channel was good but man with the pre / pro on DSD direct wow the Sig's and SilverScreen is awesome, a killer!. I just had to leave for the grocery store for 30 minutes for dinner tonight and all I can think about was getting back to listen to more music. SICK!

So again Steve, don't let me start thinking about what those Focus SE's would sound like in my room. My wife will kill me.

Andre

Steve and Andre: It's so great to hear that both of you are thrilled with your new Legacy speakers! Steve's review tonight was especially exciting to read, given that he was listening to very familiar music and the Legacy Signature SEs produced the best sound he has ever heard with that music.

Andre, I'm sure you enjoyed hearing your new system with 5.1 DSD Surround Sound music - because I know how good it can sound with good equipment like your Legacy Signature SEs, SilverScreen center, Oppo BDP93, Onkyo 5508 with Audyssey XT32 room correction and Emotiva amps.... No wonder you had to get back from the store to listen to more multi channel music!!

Guys: Legacy called today to say that my three Signature SEs and a pair of Phantom HD surrounds are shipping out tomorrow (Tuesday)!! They are due to be delivered on Thursday or Friday!

Great Dennis! I know you have been patiently waiting. Well, waiting anyway.

Will be very curious to see some pics when you get everything set up to your liking.

Jason, are you using a pair of SX-1000 monoblocks, or am I correct in my interpretation of your post and you are using an ST-1000 stereo amp? I have certainly considered the W4S SX-500 monoblocks to replace my venerable original PS Audio 100C dual-mono solid state amp. I have had some reservations about Class D but that's mostly because of a few things I've read awhile back (not recently really), and I haven't ever heard them. I do think W4S is going to be releasing some newer amp updates, and maybe even some "statement" products, later this year. So I'm in no hurry.

But it's encouraging to see you are very happy pairing them with your Legacy speakers. Was just curious.

Steve

Steve,
I can't speak highly enough about the Wyred's. I am running a 5-channel amp, the 3x1000 & 2x500 (4 Ohm). I have owned all of their amps, including the monos. I like the monos, but can't tell that much of a difference between them and the multi's. I originally had a Mac 402 for L&R and a 501 for the center channel. A freind suggested I give the Wyred a chance so I pulled the trigger and have not looked back. I noticed the stereo amp ST-1000 shows up on Audiogon for under $2k every now and then. I would buy one used and if you don't like it, you can flip it and not loose anything.

I have run Klipsch Ultra 2's, Dali's (Helicon, Ikon, Euphonia) Aerial, Magnepan and Legacy speakers with them with great success. Good luck

Jason

Thanks for that feedback, Jason. I think I'm going to wait a bit and see what "new and improved" items Wyred might have up their sleeve for later this year, and then make a decision. Their stuff certainly seems very much in the mold of "very high value" and I can confirm that via my ownership experience with the STP-SE preamp, which I think is an amazing piece for the money.

Thanks again. I'll let you know when/if I make a purchase.

Steve

It's FRI. Any news? I hope good news and the reason there has been no feed back is you are too busy setting them up and enjoying them. Still looking forward to hearing your thoughts

He's too busy listening to post here.

I heard them last night, and I'll post some impressions, but I'll wait till Dennis has posted his thoughts before I do.

Dennis...???

Craig

Dennis, I just have one question at this point: Have you remembered to eat or drink anything since Thursday?

Signed,
Concerned

Hi Guys! Thanks for the concern - I've spent alot of hours in the sweet spot over the past few days - I think my butt print is permanantly impressed in the couch!!

I will cut to the chase and say that the Signature SEs and the Phantom HDs are incredibly capable speakers! I am absolutely thrilled with the sound I am getting, even at this early stage. Bill Dudleston and the entire crew at Legacy did a great job on these speakers - they are absolutely terrific.

Special thanks goes to Craig John, who helped me install the speakers, and spent three hours here with me on Saturday taking measurements, helping me run a full Audyssey XT calibration, and lending his ears to help get the system tuned up. I will give you a more detailed review , including measurements, shortly, but for now, lets get right to the AV Porn... :-)

Here is how my system looked before the Legacy Signature SEs arrived: I was using three Legacy Studio monitors, circa 1997..... You can see how small and cute they are!! Actually, the Studios are great speakers up to their limits, and they punch way above their weight, for their price.



Here you can see the Legacy Focus SE next to the Signature SE (in velvet bag) for a size comparison. The legacy packing is very nice, with the speaker protected inside a nice black velvet bag, and 3" of foam around the speaker inside the box. A fork lift punctured two of the boxes completely thru the cardboard, and luckily there was absolutely no damage at all.



Here is a shot of the Signature SE in Black Pearl finish, with the grill on...



And here is a shot of the speaker with the grill off...



I just have to say how incredibly beautiful the Black Pearl finish is on these speakers!! I do a lot of custom paintwork, and I KNOW a fine finish when I see one. These speakers have an excellent high gloss polyester finish on them! You can see the gold pearl over the black basecoat, and it looks way better in person - it's really hard to photograph...

Notice the hard reflections in the finish, with no waviness... buffed to a high gloss. Even the back and bottom are finished in high gloss Black Pearl!!



Here's a cool custom touch - I asked Bill D. to sign the backs of the Signatures for me - and he did!



Craig helped me get the three Sigs set up as my front L/C/R speakers. Don't they look gorgeous? :-) BTW, I will be building a whole bunch of DIY acoustic treatments to cover the front wall - that panel is really just temporary...



A couple more gratuitous shots of the finish... sorry, I just couldn't resist!

Once we had the speakers in place, we placed my temporary 100" DIY Sheerweave screen. I know, its not the best, but its what I have until I invest in a real screen... I plan on getting a motorized, drop down AT screen - probably a 125" Seymour AV CenterStage XD screen. With a screen of that size, all three Signatures will be behind the screen during movies. Then, I can raise the screen when just listening to music, or for aesthetic reasons.



Here I threw on the speaker grills... I found that the speakers sound more open with the grills off (Bill D does his voicing of the speakers without grills), so I'll be leaving them off. The speakers pretty much disappear during a movie anyway...

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And just for fun, here are a few screenshots with my new JVC RS-45 projector fired up... :-)

The Phantom HD surrounds come packaged in an interesting way, with a custom-fit, angled foam divider. There is also a large piece of 3" foam for the top, I just removed it for the picture. And of course, each speaker's finish is protected with the Legacy black velvet bag. Very effective! These puppies are heavy, weighing in at 50 pounds EACH!! Make sure you've got some studs to screw into where you want to mount them....



BTW, the Phantoms sound incredible, and match the Signatures REALLY well! Right now, my seating is a little too far forward of the optimal covereage zone because of a door issue, but once that is resolved, I will move my seating back a few feet which should help the sense of immersion even more.



Here you can see just how MASSIVE these Phantom HD surrounds are!! Each Phantom is bigger than BOTH of my former B&W DS6 surrounds put together!
You can see the excellent quality drivers - an 8" silver-graphite woofer and a 1" spiral ribbon tweeter on the front, with a 5.25" silver-graphite midrange on either side to fill in the off-axis response. These surrounds are bipolar design, by the way...



Here you can see the Phantom HD after I mounted it to the wall. Aside from its substantial weight, it is very easy to mount. Legacy provides a pre-drilled metal bar that can be screwed horizontally or vertically directly to the wall. Then the speaker has mounting screws that are installed into the back of the speaker. Then, go grab a friend to help you lift these onto the wall, 'cause it's a two-person job! My friend Craig helped steady the speaker while I lined up the mounting screw heads with the holes in the bar. Both speakers slid easily and securely into place.



Later, I went back and applied a couple self-adhesive felt discs between the wall and the speaker at the narrow end of the speaker, just to protect the wall and the finish. Here you can see the Phantom HD in all it's naked glory!

(measurements go here)

I'll second your comment about the BP finish. I saw (and heard) the sigs at AXPONA last weekend...they were in BP running with a Silverscreen HD CC and studio HDs as surrounds, driven by Emotiva gear. Absolutely gorgeous finish. They didn't sound bad, either.

What's in your rack there?

I custom designed and built the equipment rack from birch ply, with fixed shelves top and bottom. The shelves in between are adjustable.

From top to bottom:

17" LCD monitor (with a vintage Marantz 6100 turntable/Denon D110 cartridge behind it)
vintage Adcom ACE-515 AC Line Conditioner
Oppo BDP-83SE blu-ray player
Roku2 XD streamer and Comcast HD box on top of:
Onkyo PR-SC885 Preamp/Processor
EAD TheaterMaster Ovation 8000 preamp/processor (used only for 2 channel right now)
EAD PowerMaster 5300 Amp (5 channels x 300W at 8 ohm, 500W at 4 ohms)

That's Great Dennis. Glad it all worked out. But some of your pics starting last night are not showing up. You may need to re-do them. I had the same issue when I first posted mine. Can't wait to see the rest of the pictures. Hopefully you can take one of the center as well. Again, that will be a great setup. You have very nice gear to go with your speakers as well. Looking forward to more thoughts on them. Also looking forward to Craig's thoughts as well. You pics have me thinking maybe I should take some glamour shots of mine as well. So again, a big congrats and I hope you enjoy them for a long time.

Mike: Were you signed in to AVS at the time you tried to view the pics? I can see them right now.... anyone else having problems viewing some of the pics above?

I am always signed it. That happened to me also. You need to attach the pic to a post then post the reply. Then click on the attachment link. Then, you need to click the pic again. Copy the link and the hit the Insert image icon and paste the link in there. That should do it. I mean, you have them attached because I can see the first 4 as little plictures. Like I said, when I first posted pics of my system I could see them but no one else could. That was the reason.
For ex

Hi DMark,

Just a quick question. Looks fabulous, BTW.

Are you running(or planning to) the 3 Signatures full range? Of, if not, at what frequency are you crossing them over to those subs? Thanks.

mtrot:

I was planning to cover that topic in more depth once I got the measurements posted. As it stands now, we got the flattest response in my room running the Sigs full-range, and using the Onkyo 885's "Double Bass" feature with Audyssey XT. With Double Bass engaged, the fronts are set to Full Range, AND the L and R bass is sent to the subs too. I'm not sure what L/R frequencies the Onkyo sends to the subs when in Double Bass mode - the manual doesn't say - but my guess is anything below 80 Hz (THX).

We tried and measured 40, 60, 70, and 80 Hz crossovers, but we were getting some nasty nulls around 60 and 100 Hz from the L and R speakers, likely due to the room positioning. The L speaker is next to a sidewall, and the R speaker is toward the center of the room. Interestingly, the Center speaker measured really well, probably because it is set back a bit closer to the front wall. We decided not to move the L and R speakers because of where the screen would end up.

Individually, the Sigs were putting out good output down to 20 Hz before rolling off. So, on a whim, we decided to try Double Bass, and take some of the load off the subs. We immediately got better results with this setup, and were able to set the sub level down a few more dB, which was fine, because certain material like Star Trek, would really push the subs to their limits before. Last night, I had the beginning of Star Trek up to -3 dB from reference without any sign of stress, and the sense of room lock with the bass was both palpable and impressive. Very tight and very punchy bass... Not an easy feat in my rather large room!

When I get them up, you'll see from the measurements that I have a bit of a room curve now, but I tend to prefer that over a ruler flat response anyway. I still have a lot of room treatment work to do yet, so that will help even more going forward. I've still only had these speakers for less than a week, so I'm sure I'll get them dialed in even better as I go along. But DAM! I am very happy and impressed with them already.

It's nice to know you have the bottom end power to run Full Range if you have to. Craig says I should still plan to build some Killer DIY Super Subs too, anyway... But then again, he's running 3 Seaton Submersives with his Triad Platinum LCRs in his awesome system...

Dennis, I imagine you'll benefit greatly from some bass traps that will make Audyssey's EQ task much easier. Are you using any good measurement SW like XTZ or REW? You can get a much better picture of what's going on with your system and room with those than just relying on what your pre-pro shows if it's anything like what the better Denon implementations of XT32 show.

You made the right move running your Sigs full range as long as they won't bottom out on any intense LF transients much before your subs do. There's no substitute for overkill. Knowing Bill's philosophy of "piston area" and running two woofer drivers per cabinet, I wouldn't think that would be an issue. I'd love to hear that system cranked with some top notch source material...you should be able to move a sh*t ton of air with all those woofers and that amp.

Hi Russ:

Yep, we used XTZ to take the measurements. Craig has them on his computer right now, so I am just waiting for him to email them to me so I can post them. Large bass traps are already on the drawing board, as well as wall panels, ceiling clouds, and maybe a thick rug or two.

The sigs are very sensitive, and I'm sure an upgrade to an XT32 capable pre/pro will make another big improvement in performance, so that's in the plans as well. Its constant upgrading, but that's what makes it so fun!!

And yes, compared to my Studios, we're moving WAY more air than before!