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Legacy Audio Speakers - Page 11

post #301 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Video: Legacy Focus SE & Marquis HD [First Look]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to post this video! Even over the internet, you can get an idea of the transient response of those babies!
post #302 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Wow, thanks for taking the time to post this video! Even over the internet, you can get an idea of the transient response of those babies!

You're very welcome! I'm glad you liked the video cool.gif

They really sound smooth--I can't get enough of these speakers!
post #303 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkzy56 View Post

Man o Man they look beautiful !!!
they sound very nice even from my computer, can't wait to hear them with whichever mono blocks you choose to get!
Once again Matt, congrats on a very very fine speaker choice, I'm sure you are going to be happy for a long time to come.

Thanks man!..when playing it back after shooting, I realized that the smoothness was conveyed even through the computer speakers. 'Twas a pleasant surprise!
post #304 of 472
Indeed !
you realize I am catching the Legacy bug !!!
thinking about starting with a couple of Studio HDs and a Siver Screen center
for my media room.
Then sometime down the line getting a pair of Signature SE's !!!
yikes.
See what you have done :-)
post #305 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkzy56 View Post

Indeed !
you realize I am catching the Legacy bug !!!
thinking about starting with a couple of Studio HDs and a Siver Screen center
for my media room.
Then sometime down the line getting a pair of Signature SE's !!!
yikes.
See what you have done :-)

Hey that's a great way to go!!! The Legacy bug is indeed a great bug to have :-) No bug-spray necessary! smile.gif
post #306 of 472
Hi Matt,

Your new Foci look awesome!!! I'll bet they sound terrific as well. smile.gif

I know you heard the Foci at DMark1's place, but his speakers had the ribbon tweeters. I wonder if you could compare the sound of the AMT tweeters to what you heard at Dennis' place with the ribbons. (I know the demo at Dennis' was a while ago, and your room is different than Dennis' room, but I just wondered if you noticed anything that stuck out at you.) Thanks!

Craig
post #307 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Matt,

Your new Foci look awesome!!! I'll bet they sound terrific as well. smile.gif

I know you heard the Foci at DMark1's place, but his speakers had the ribbon tweeters. I wonder if you could compare the sound of the AMT tweeters to what you heard at Dennis' place with the ribbons. (I know the demo at Dennis' was a while ago, and your room is different than Dennis' room, but I just wondered if you noticed anything that stuck out at you.) Thanks!

Craig

Thanks Craig! smile.gif I can honestly say that the AMT's do indeed sound better than the ribbons. Although it's been a while, I queued up a lot of the same tracks we played at Dennis' place during the January demo (Diana Krall: Live in Rio, the Totem demo disc, brontosaurus stampede, Gavriel Lipkind's Prelude, David Foster & Friends, etc.) The AMT's are more engaging and I am more floored with these than the pair at Dennis' place, which is saying a lot because Dennis' pair are what caused me to commit to these in the first place. The ribbons are amazing, but the AMT's are, in my opinion, the better tweeter.

The best way to describe the difference is "smooth and deep"....for instance, in that bass & drum solo on the Totem disc, the depth of the audience's clapping is immediately more defined. Even with the light clapping throughout the performance, you can tell precisely where the clappers are. The ribbons also had great depth, but not as well defined. Although difficult to describe, the term "smoother" applies as well. Even with ears inches away from the AMT, the music sounds like it's being performed inside the speaker and heard through a window. I cant wait for you guys to come down for a listen, once the subs are a factor once more.
post #308 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Thanks Craig! smile.gif I can honestly say that the AMT's do indeed sound better than the ribbons. Although it's been a while, I queued up a lot of the same tracks we played at Dennis' place during the January demo (Diana Krall: Live in Rio, the Totem demo disc, brontosaurus stampede, Gavriel Lipkind's Prelude, David Foster & Friends, etc.) The AMT's are more engaging and I am more floored with these than the pair at Dennis' place, which is saying a lot because Dennis' pair are what caused me to commit to these in the first place. The ribbons are amazing, but the AMT's are, in my opinion, the better tweeter.

The best way to describe the difference is "smooth and deep"....for instance, in that bass & drum solo on the Totem disc, the depth of the audience's clapping is immediately more defined. Even with the light clapping throughout the performance, you can tell precisely where the clappers are. The ribbons also had great depth, but not as well defined. Although difficult to describe, the term "smoother" applies as well. Even with ears inches away from the AMT, the music sounds like it's being performed inside the speaker and heard through a window. I cant wait for you guys to come down for a listen, once the subs are a factor once more.
Hi Matt,

Would you say the differences are "subtle," "somewhat noticeable," "easily noticeable," or "dramatic?"

I would really like to hear them. We'll need to plan that! smile.gif

Craig
post #309 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Matt,

Would you say the differences are "subtle," "somewhat noticeable," "easily noticeable," or "dramatic?"

I would really like to hear them. We'll need to plan that! smile.gif

Craig

I'd definitely rank the differences as "somewhat noticeable." They aren't earth shattering, but it's certainly there. We will definitely need to plan something soon.
post #310 of 472
Hi All,

Does anyone have a freq response/SPL chart for the new Focus SE speakers with the Air Motion tweeter? I checked out the Audioholics review and was surprised it wasn't included (at the time of the review they mentioned a follow up article would contain measurements, which never was posted). A lot of people rave about the low end output this speaker has (which is surprising to me because the woofers aren't amplified internally) and I was curious to see just how authoritative it can be/if I can get away without using a dedicated sub in a stereo music listening set-up.

I appreciate your input!

-Tony
post #311 of 472
Hi Tony,

Yes, you can definitely "get away with" using the Focus SEs fullrange without a seperate subwoofer. Thats exactly what they are designed to do - provide high quality full range sound. As far as I know, Legacy, like most other high end speaker manufacturers, does not publish frequency range charts, but they do publish the speaker's specs, which are 18 hz-30khz, +/- 2db. From my experience, you will likely measure usable output lower than 18 hz in-room, due to room gain, and their specs are not exagerated in any way. Sensitivity is over 95dB, and they will easily play reference level with very low distortion on relatively few watts of power. However, they do like power, and are rated to handle up to 500 watts. The Focus SEs have a very authoritative sound, with lots of tight, punchy bass when called for. And in the next breath, they can be incredibly intimate and detailed with those amazingly smooth Air Motion tweeters. You won't be disappointed, I assure you!
Edited by DMark1 - 6/18/13 at 11:11pm
post #312 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Hi Tony,

Yes, you can definitely "get away with" using the Focus SEs fullrange without a seperate subwoofer. Thats exactly what they are designed to do - provide high quality full range sound. As far as I know, Legacy, like most other high end speaker manufacturers, does not publish frequency range charts, but they do publish the speaker's specs, which are 18 hz-30khz, +/- 2db. From my experience, you will likely measure usable output lower than 18 hz in-room, due to room gain, and their specs are not exagerated in any way. Sensitivity is over 95dB, and they will easily play reference level with very low distortion on relatively few watts of power. However, they do like power, and are rated to handle up to 500 watts. The Focus SEs have a very authoritative sound, with lots of tight, punchy bass when called for. And in the next breath, they can be incredibly intimate and detailed with those amazingly smooth Air Motion tweeters. You won't be disappointed, I assure you!

Thanks for the input. I wasn't expecting the manufacturer to provide freq/output charts, I was looking for an external review which may have included this information (or an owner). The manufacturer may claim what they wish on a spec sheet, it doesn't necessarily translate 1:1 with real world performance. As I said before, I find it hard to believe a speaker w/o dedicated internal amplification could keep up with a 2.1 system, the charts I requested will answer my question biggrin.gif. I imagine a trade-off will have to be made between sound integration and output at the lower end i.e. the Focus SE in a 2.0 system will probably sound much more fluid however, may lack the output/extension a 2.1 could provide.
post #313 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

Thanks for the input. I wasn't expecting the manufacturer to provide freq/output charts, I was looking for an external review which may have included this information (or an owner). The manufacturer may claim what they wish on a spec sheet, it doesn't necessarily translate 1:1 with real world performance. As I said before, I find it hard to believe a speaker w/o dedicated internal amplification could keep up with a 2.1 system, the charts I requested will answer my question biggrin.gif. I imagine a trade-off will have to be made between sound integration and output at the lower end i.e. the Focus SE in a 2.0 system will probably sound much more fluid however, may lack the output/extension a 2.1 could provide.

I'm not sure I understand your logic. Why would you think a pair of Legacy Focus SEs, with four 12" woofers spec'd down to 18 Hz, would not be able to keep up with a system with a single subwoofer?? Why would you think that a fullrange speaker would have to have internal amplification to match a 2.1 system?
post #314 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

I'm not sure I understand your logic. Why would you think a pair of Legacy Focus SEs, with four 12" woofers spec'd down to 18 Hz, would not be able to keep up with a system with a single subwoofer?? Why would you think that a fullrange speaker would have to have internal amplification to match a 2.1 system?

The size of the woofers are almost irrelevant to this discussion, I don't care if they have eight 15" woofers. A smaller cone with greater capacity for excursion can produce the equivalent of a larger cone with less excursion. Cabinet size and design will have a greater impact on the low end frequency response of a speaker than the cone will. A subwoofer only has to accommodate low frequency ranges as opposed to the full spectrum of a loudspeaker that has to cater to a much broader frequency range, therefore a subwoofer can have an uncompromising design and contain generally a larger volume than a full range counterpart. Of course there are always exceptions (especially with speakers that have a significantly large footprint) but in the case of the Focus SE the cabinet is only about 15" deep and it is a ported design, this would be the first indication to me that during the enclosure design, compromises were made.

Regarding internal amplification, I can only make assumptions given that what I have requested (SPL/Frequency chart) is not available for these speakers. Unless the Focus SE have one of the most efficient woofer designs in the world (I already know the spec sheet says they are 95.4dB, again spec sheet info rarely translates to real world performance), it will take a lot of current to drive the woofers and the rest of the speaker to produce the output equivalent to a dedicated sub with a separate amp. To do so, you would basically be demanding that a single amplification source have the power/capacitance/drive etc. of two separate amplifiers and I am sure such amplifiers exist at a cost much greater than these speakers. Look at the AERIS, it has a 1000W internal amplifier dedicated to the low frequency woofers yet the low frequency response (18Hz) and max power handling (500w) are rated the same as the Focus SE. So how in the world are these two speakers going to produce the same output/frequency response (spec'd at 18Hz +/- 2dB) when the AERIS has 500W of headroom to drive 2 woofers + tweeter while with that same 500W the Focus SE has to drive 4 woofers + tweeter? It doesn't pan out. With your logic, there would be no need for a subwoofer in a HT set-up with these speakers (since you repeatedly state they have a spec at 18Hz).

Like I said before, I don't expect any speaker (that I can afford) to be able to compete with a high-end sub (~$2k) in low end response/output. I am just trying to gauge how much of a compromise will be made if I don't include a dedicated sub with a Focus SE set-up. Really all we need to end this discussion is an SPL/Frequency graph, we can see what the output is at 18Hz and compare it to what a subwoofer would produce from which I can draw my own conclusions (which was why I posted here in the first place). I am just trying to make an informed decision as there are tons of competitors in this price range and this is a significant investment for me.

Please correct me if my thinking is flawed, I am here to learn and if I had all the answers I obviously wouldn't be posting asking for advice smile.gif

EDIT:
To be clear I am not questioning the speakers response but its output at low frequency.
Edited by Todeseng3l - 6/19/13 at 7:27pm
post #315 of 472
Did you all catch the review in Home Theater magazine of the Classic HD, SilverScreen HD, Metro sub and Deco? They really liked it . . .
post #316 of 472
Got a link?

The latest issue of The Absolute Sound has a review of the Aeris by Anthony Cordesman... I haven't read the review yet, but I know for certain that he bought a pair of Aeris for himself, and sold his long-time Vandersteen 5As!
post #317 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

The size of the woofers are almost irrelevant to this discussion, I don't care if they have eight 15" woofers. A smaller cone with greater capacity for excursion can produce the equivalent of a larger cone with less excursion.

Yes, however, more excursion equals more distortion, unfortunately. Many single driver subwoofers put out distortion in excess of 10%. That is why Legacy uses more large drivers (more piston area) as you go up their line. Simply put, More piston area = less excursion = lower distortion.
Quote:
Cabinet size and design will have a greater impact on the low end frequency response of a speaker than the cone will. A subwoofer only has to accommodate low frequency ranges as opposed to the full spectrum of a loudspeaker that has to cater to a much broader frequency range, therefore a subwoofer can have an uncompromising design and contain generally a larger volume than a full range counterpart. Of course there are always exceptions (especially with speakers that have a significantly large footprint) but in the case of the Focus SE the cabinet is only about 15" deep and it is a ported design, this would be the first indication to me that during the enclosure design, compromises were made.

Have you heard the Focus SEs in your room? I would not call it a "compromised design", but rather an Optimized Design... Bill D. has been refining the Focus SE for almost 20 years! I can assure you that the bass reflex alignment and cabinet size is optimized for the drivers in the Focus SE.

Additionally, just because a stand alone subwoofer only has its one job, does not mean that a fullrange speaker cannot do an equally good job in producing bass. A fullrange speaker like the Focus SE has more woofers (4 per pair) dedicated to the 18-120 Hz range than most subwoofers on the market have. (Again, More piston area = less excursion = lower distortion).

And, the crossover in the Focus SE ensures that the frequency range the woofers handle is optimized for the drivers and the cabinet design, just like in a standalone subwoofer.
Quote:
Regarding internal amplification, I can only make assumptions given that what I have requested (SPL/Frequency chart) is not available for these speakers. Unless the Focus SE have one of the most efficient woofer designs in the world (I already know the spec sheet says they are 95.4dB, again spec sheet info rarely translates to real world performance)...

I'm not convinced that is an accurate statement.... many reviews I read in Stereophile magazine test speaker sensitivity, and the results are usually very close to the manufacturers claim.... Also, I know Bill Dudleston personally, and he is not one to exaggerate, especially when it comes to speaker specs...
Quote:
...it will take a lot of current to drive the woofers and the rest of the speaker to produce the output equivalent to a dedicated sub with a separate amp. To do so, you would basically be demanding that a single amplification source have the power/capacitance/drive etc. of two separate amplifiers....

Perhaps you are right - so just use monoblocks on the Focus SEs, as I know some people do! Emotiva makes a great monoblock called the XPR-1 for less than $1,500. It will put out 1,750 watts at 4 ohms - more than enough current, and plenty of headroom. The Focus SEs are even designed to accept bi-amping, if you so desire.
Quote:
...Look at the AERIS, it has a 1000W internal amplifier dedicated to the low frequency woofers yet the low frequency response (18Hz) and max power handling (500w) are rated the same as the Focus SE. So how in the world are these two speakers going to produce the same output/frequency response (spec'd at 18Hz +/- 2dB) when the AERIS has 500W of headroom to drive 2 woofers + tweeter while with that same 500W the Focus SE has to drive 4 woofers + tweeter? It doesn't pan out....

It's funny that you would compare the woofer sections of the Aeris and the Focus SEs - mainly because they both use the same 12" Aura woofers! However, the bass alignments are different - the Aeris is a passive radiator design, while the Focus SE is ported. In case you are not aware, passive radiator designs require more power than ported designs to produce the same results, which I assume is why Bill D. designed the Aeris with 1,000 watts of built-in power for the woofer section. He really does know what he's doing when it comes to speaker design. :-)
Quote:
With your logic, there would be no need for a subwoofer in a HT set-up with these speakers (since you repeatedly state they have a spec at 18Hz)....

You are correct - there is no NEED for a seperate subwoofer with the Focus SEs. However, I don't dispute that adding a sub or two (or four) will give you even better performance. In fact, I use seperate subs in my Focus SE based system! The advantages being even lower distortion, increased output, and evening out room modes. I endorse and recommend adding subs to almost any system!
Quote:
...Like I said before, I don't expect any speaker (that I can afford) to be able to compete with a high-end sub (~$2k) in low end response/output. I am just trying to gauge how much of a compromise will be made if I don't include a dedicated sub with a Focus SE set-up....

Honestly, you really won't miss a subwoofer with Focus SE speakers. Adding sub(s) with them just makes the overall system even better.
Quote:
...Really all we need to end this discussion is an SPL/Frequency graph, we can see what the output is at 18Hz and compare it to what a subwoofer would produce from which I can draw my own conclusions (which was why I posted here in the first place). I am just trying to make an informed decision as there are tons of competitors in this price range and this is a significant investment for me.

I'll see what I can do, but I have no way of making anechoic measurements, and I really don't want to lug my speakers and subs outside for ground-plane measurements. However, I can tell you from experience, that you will definitely NOT be disappointed with the Focus SEs and their bass performance. Perhaps BrolicBeast can chime in as he has recently gone through this same process and is currently running his Focus SE/Marquis system without subwoofers. He seems to be very satisfied (for now - a pair of dedicated subs are in his future :-) )

If you live within driving distance of Lancaster PA, I would like to invite you to visit my place to hear the Focus SEs for yourself. I hope you can make it!
post #318 of 472
Just to add to the response that Dmark1 (Dennis) has posted above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Quote:
Additionally, just because a stand alone subwoofer only has its one job, does not mean that a fullrange speaker cannot do an equally good job in producing bass. A fullrange speaker like the Focus SE has more woofers (4 per pair) dedicated to the 18-120 Hz range than most subwoofers on the market have. (Again, More piston area = less excursion = lower distortion).

And, the crossover in the Focus SE ensures that the frequency range the woofers handle is optimized for the drivers and the cabinet design, just like in a standalone subwoofer.

Todeseng3l, It's important to keep in mind that, conceptually, a subwoofer and the woofer section of a full range speaker operate on the same principles, the only difference being the subwoofer is normally actively powered, while the full range speaker's woofers are generally passively powered (although exceptions like the Aeris exist). With that out of the way, the only other factor for consideration should be amplifier power....(more on that below),,,
Quote:
Perhaps you are right - so just use monoblocks on the Focus SEs, as I know some people do! Emotiva makes a great monoblock called the XPR-1 for less than $1,500. It will put out 1,750 watts at 4 ohms - more than enough current, and plenty of headroom.

To add to this, I currently utilize two Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks (1750w each) to power my Focus SE towers and one Emotiva XPA-1 monoblock (1000w each) to power my Marquis HD center speaker. With practically unlimited headroom, I can push these speakers very hard without needing a subwoofer on most tracks (this excludes tracks with infrasonic material below the rated specs) My Seatons reproduced infrasonics quite well, but my prior SVS couldn't touch infrasonics. But we're not talking about infrasonics here--we're talking about the rated bass extension of the Focus and, frankly, the Marquis HD as well with identical woofers. In this context, I find no fault.
Quote:
Honestly, you really won't miss a subwoofer with Focus SE speakers. Adding sub(s) with them just makes the overall system even better.
I'll see what I can do, but I have no way of making anechoic measurements, and I really don't want to lug my speakers and subs outside for ground-plane measurements. However, I can tell you from experience, that you will definitely NOT be disappointed with the Focus SEs and their bass performance. Perhaps BrolicBeast can chime in as he has recently gone through this same process and is currently running his Focus SE/Marquis system without subwoofers. He seems to be very satisfied (for now - a pair of dedicated subs are in his future :-) )

Yes indeed, I am very very satisfied with the performance of my Focus SE-based system, sans subwoofers. I'm not a guy who pops Aladdin in at -30 below reference with the lights on and considers that a movie experience. I take my movies very seriously with the lights off and the volume way up (usually around -5 to -7 reference) and if the Legacies weren't capable of satisfying my low-end requirements, I would have made it known here (full range capabilities are one of the reasons I went with the Legacies.) If you have a particular non-infrasonic torture test that you wonder if the Legacies can handle, please share the movie with me (I probably own it) or song (I can get it through my Sonos system) and I'll do a test at reference and will report honestly back here. I am very confident in these speakers. Measurements aren't everything...There's a very interesting article here on the fact that measurements aren't everything (it also discusses the pitfalls of an anechoic chamber). Give it a read when you get some time.
Quote:
If you live within driving distance of Lancaster PA, I would like to invite you to visit my place to hear the Focus SEs for yourself. I hope you can make it!

Todeseng3l, I also extend an invitation if you're within driving distance of the DC/MD/VA area. I can throw on Flight of the Phoenix or War of the Worlds and show you what Dennis and I are talking about. My door rattles violently while the Focus SE's don't break a sweat.
post #319 of 472
Thank DMark1 for the thought out response! I also appreciate both you and BrolicBeast inviting me into your homes, however, I am not close enough to warrant the drive. I think I have read enough reviews and user feedback to take the plunge smile.gif This may be a silly question to ask but is there any wiggle room in the price when you purchase directly from Legacy? Or do you strictly pay list price?

Thanks again!
post #320 of 472
Hi todeseng31, not sure if you knew already, but I am an authorized Legacy Audio dealer, so I am "uniquely prepared" to help you, and any other AVS members out the best way I can.

Maybe BrolicBeast Matt will add his thoughts, as he is a customer of mine...

I sent you a PM....:-)
post #321 of 472
Hi!

I'm a happy owner of Legacy Focus HD for over 1.5 years. This is the first speaker ever that fill my needs both for SQ and ability to play loud with silky smooth mids and highs.

In a quest to maintain most of the SQ, gain in power compared to my existing power amp and lower the money spent on stereo equipment an Emotiva XPR-2 will be shipped today.

Have anyone tried the new XPR line from Emotiva with Legacy Focus HD?

Other equipment is Anthem MRX500, two Seaton Sound SubMersive and Swans 2.3C and 2.3R.
post #322 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivaols View Post

Hi!

I'm a happy owner of Legacy Focus HD for over 1.5 years. This is the first speaker ever that fill my needs both for SQ and ability to play loud with silky smooth mids and highs.

In a quest to maintain most of the SQ, gain in power compared to my existing power amp and lower the money spent on stereo equipment an Emotiva XPR-2 will be shipped today.

Have anyone tried the new XPR line from Emotiva with Legacy Focus HD?

Other equipment is Anthem MRX500, two Seaton Sound SubMersive and Swans 2.3C and 2.3R.

Hi Ivaols, glad you are loving your Focus HDs!

Yes, BrolicBeast is powering his Focus SEs with the Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks, and he is thrilled with the SQ. You can check out his thread called "BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater". (His posts above have links on his signature line to his thread.) Emotiva seems to be a great sounding, high quality, value-oriented choice, especially with their summer sale running right now.
post #323 of 472
Finally got around to completing a review of the Legacy Audio Focus SE and Marquis HD.

Feel free to read it here.
post #324 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Hi todeseng31, not sure if you knew already, but I am an authorized Legacy Audio dealer, so I am "uniquely prepared" to help you, and any other AVS members out the best way I can.

Maybe BrolicBeast Matt will add his thoughts, as he is a customer of mine...

I sent you a PM....:-)

Todeseng31, if you're ready to take the plunge, I can tell you this: Dennis will offer very fair pricing and is very knowledgeable about each and every Legacy model. I used him for both my Focus SE purchase and my Marquis HD purchase, and I plan on going back to him for any Legacy additions I have in the future. If you have any questions about the buying process, feel free to PM me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Hi Ivaols, glad you are loving your Focus HDs!

Yes, BrolicBeast is powering his Focus SEs with the Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks, and he is thrilled with the SQ. You can check out his thread called "BrolicBeast's Living Room Theater". (His posts above have links on his signature line to his thread.) Emotiva seems to be a great sounding, high quality, value-oriented choice, especially with their summer sale running right now.

Oh yes indeed! XPR's will make your Focus HD's sing. I currently run two XPR-1 monoblocks for my Focus SE speakers, and I can't imagine anything in the world sounding better (and I've heard a lot of speakers and amps in my day). Emotiva has a stellar sale going on that I wholly recommend--just make sure you have a 20 amp circuit if you're going with the XPR-2!
post #325 of 472
Thanks for the reply DMark1 and BrolicBeast. I was actually waiting for the summer sale to order. Received tracking information from Fedex a few hours ago smile.gif

Looking forward to try out this beast on the Focus HD's and your words BrolicBeast make me believe this will be a hit! Regarding the electric issue I live in Norway with 230V and I'm using a 16A circuit so this will not be a problem.
post #326 of 472
Does anyone have any input in comparing the Legacy Focus 20/20 to the new Focus SE? The 20/20 had some nice reviews as well and can be had significantly cheaper than the Focus SE.
post #327 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

Does anyone have any input in comparing the Legacy Focus 20/20 to the new Focus SE? The 20/20 had some nice reviews as well and can be had significantly cheaper than the Focus SE.

Check out this video of Bill Dudleston comparing the older Kevlar midrange drivers with the new Silver-Graphite/Rohacell mids. You can draw your own conclusions...

http://www.legacyaudio.com/backstage/blog/video-driver-demonstration-by-bill-dudleston/

Which drivers would you rather have??

It is easy to hear the difference, and how much better the improved Silver-Graphite/Rohacell drivers are, even over my laptop's speakers. The Focus 20/20 used the older Kevlar drivers. The new Focus HD and Focus SE uses the new Silver-Graphite/Rohacell drivers.

The new AMT tweeters in the Focus SE are also much better than the older ribbon tweets in the 20/20. Bass is also much tighter, more accurate, and better damped in the Focus SE than the 20/20.

In this case, you really are getting what you're paying for!! There is a significant SQ difference between these two models. As good as the 20/20 was in it's time, the new Focus SE is truly in a completely different and much better league.
Edited by DMark1 - 6/27/13 at 11:26am
post #328 of 472
The newer drivers defiantly are more detailed and warm sounding. The older drivers sound more neutral to me and maybe a hint of hollowness. I don't think the comparison is 1:1 though as both systems have different crossovers and will overlap in different areas. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the AMT Fouc SE will probably sound better even as a complete package. The decision I have to make is whether the Focus SE improvement in sound is worth an additional $7k as compared to what I can get the 20/20 for. $7k is a huge difference for me, I am a college student with an expensive hobby =/

Back when the 20/20s were in production were they the only Focus offering? i.e. Now there have Focus HD and Focus SE, was it just the Focus 20/20 back then?
post #329 of 472
I can offer some input into the older model Focus. The short answer is every Legacy Audio speaker I have heard going back 20 years sounds superb. The long answer requires some background....

I got involved in this industry and this hobby some 35 years ago. Although I left the industry the hobby continued to consume lots of time and money for many years. I went through a tremendous amount of electronics and speakers, and gradually refined my tastes in equipment. I listen primarily to rock. I liked very clear, very accurate, and VERY dynamic speakers, paired with very powerful amps. Roughly 20 years ago I settled on B&W 801's driven by Krell amplifiers.

Settled on them in my wish list - there was no possible way I'd ever afford them. Then I saw an ad for Legacy Audio and phoned them. I spoke to a receptionist, explained I wanted more information on the speakers, and she transferred me to Bill Dudleston. I explained to Bill my background and what I had listened to and he recommended the Focus. He talked at length about how he designed the speakers to minimize room reflections, and about his personal philosophy of using a lot of surface areas in his drivers, while limiting their excursion. I was sold but I couldn't afford the $5400 (at the time) for the Focus. I bought a pair of Classics instead.

The Classics were a great loudspeaker, the best I had ever heard in my room. They were not an 801, but they were very good. Shortly thereafter Krell came out with a line of integrated amps that were reasonably priced, at least for Krell. I brought home a demo, loved it, and added that to my system.

I still went to my local Hi-Fi shop to listen to the 801's. One day, about 18 months after I bought the Classics, the store manager at my local Hi-Fi shop offered to let me take home their demo pair of 801's and compare them to the Classics. I knew the Classics, while good, were not going to measure up to the 801's. On a whim I called Bill and he offered to take back the Classics and credit 100% of the purchase price towards a pair of the Focus. They were in the music room in a couple of days and I compared them to the 801's. I loved both of them, but I actually preferred the sound of the Focus, and they were half the price. No slight to the 801's which were and still are an incredibly good speaker but the Focus was more than a match for them.

Then an interesting thing happened. The Focus, driven by the Krell, were an amazing combo and I simply gave up listening to the equipment and started listening to the music. My entire audiophile experience abruptly ended. I was, for the first time in my life, completely satisfied with the sound of my Hi-Fi.

Fast forward 10 years. I've gotten into home theater now, adding a Silver Screen center channel and Mist surrounds. The Krell has this unique feature that allows you to de-couple the pre-amp from the power amp with the push of a button and drive the power amp from a surround sound receiver. The system sounds fine for movies and we get a lot of use out of the system. Then we invest in a Blu-Ray player. The old surround sound receiver doesn't decode the new audio, like Dolby Tru-HD, so we get a new receiver only to discover, to my horror, that the new receiver is not compatible with the Krell. After trying several different receivers and working with the people from Krell we give up, and pull the Krell out of the system.

The receiver we settle on is a very nice Denon, sounds pretty good. It will not drive the Focus. As others on this thread have noted the Focus presents a very difficult load to an amplifier and the receiver just shuts down. I have an NAD amp lying around and put that into the system. It works, but sounds nothing like the Krell did. I begin whining to my wife.

Fast forward another 6 years. We move into a new house with a huge listening room. The ceiling is vaulted and has 7 different roof angles so it is difficult to measure the size precisely but the room is somewhere between 7000 and 8000 cubic feet. The Focus, at least driven by the NAD, do not adequately pressure the room in the bass so we add 2 HSU ULS-15 subwoofers. Better, but still not there. I continue to whine.

I've got a short list of what I want for electronics but I can't justify spending the money. I then discover Emotiva equipment and for $1500 I have a new processor and a monster power amp, 300 watts x 5 at 4 ohms, all channels driven. The system sounds absolutely superb again, in fact better by far than it ever has. My processor has the ability to feed low frequencies to either just the subwoofers or to the subwoofers and the mains, and after experimenting we have settled on the latter. The Focus go nearly as low as the subwoofers do anyway, and I think using all of the speakers helps to even out room nodes.

So that's the long version. I have little doubt that newer versions of the Focus would sound even better than what I have but it doesn't matter - what I have sounds superb to me, enough so that I have no interest in anything else. When you get to this level in equipment the differences are best noted in direct comparisons, and since you don't normally have multiple makes of speakers in your living room I can't imagine that anyone would not be happy with a 20 year old set of Focus. Driven by top electronics of course.
post #330 of 472
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I think what I will do is purchase the Focus 20/20 to wet my Legacy apetite and eventually upgrade to one of the higher-end models when money becomes more plentiful smile.gif
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