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New AVIA II HD Version? - Page 2

post #31 of 91
11/15/07 at 10:02am
First, let me tell you that I don't know much about TV or speakers, I only want to use them. I was told that I can use the AVIA II to calibrate the TV so to ensure that I have the best image. I have a Bravia HD TV. I thought about buying some speakers to connect to the TV, but I have not done it yet. Thus, my interest at this moment is to calibrate the HD TV. Will the AVIA II help me to do the calibration? Do I need a HD DVD to use the program? Thanks, Carlos
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post #32 of 91
11/15/07 at 8:02pm
GeorgeAB,
Would you mind elaborating on reasons for prefering DVE or what you found lacking in AVIA II?

Any benefits of one over the other for SpyderTV Colorimeter users? BTW, you can do decent grayscale w/ the colorimeter.

TIA.
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post #33 of 91
11/15/07 at 8:38pm
'DVE' has much more elaborate tutorials and test materials. Here's a link to Joe Kane Productions' PDF of test pattern explanations for 'DVE.' I have read a report from a calibrator who uses an $11,000.00 Minolta CS-200 color analyzer, who found some of the darker gray scale patterns on 'Avia II' to be darker than they should be. I haven't tested them myself to see if my copy has this problem, and I don't know when I'll have the time to verify it. Perhaps it will come up in another thread before then.
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post #34 of 91
11/18/07 at 5:59am
A major dealer for Avia II

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/aviigutohoth.html
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post #35 of 91
11/18/07 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlogs View Post

A major dealer for Avia II

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/aviigutohoth.html

I have banned them as a buying option, b/c they appear to be schilling themselves on the forum.
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post #36 of 91
11/18/07 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

'DVE' has much more elaborate tutorials and test materials. Here's a link to Joe Kane Productions' PDF of test pattern explanations for 'DVE.' I have read a report from a calibrator who uses an $11,000.00 Minolta CS-200 color analyzer, who found some of the darker gray scale patterns on 'Avia II' to be darker than they should be. I haven't tested them myself to see if my copy has this problem, and I don't know when I'll have the time to verify it. Perhaps it will come up in another thread before then.

Do you know who measured this, and where they may have explained this?

I don't know Guy's level of involvement in encoding this, but it seems that it's the same patterns from Avia PRO which at least on that disc were extremely precise. Part of my doubt of your claim here is also because Guy uses the, in my opinion, bizarre choice of labeling the patterns in IRE, which assumes 7.5IRE setup. Someone measuring who didn't know that could easily misinterpret the results, which would skew especially the lower greyscale values quite a bit darker than the IRE label provided on the disc would show, which is NOT the same as a % label.

I'm going to order a copy momentarily, and I'll check it out when I get it, but I would be extremely surprised if the patterns were not identical to what is on Avia PRO. But of course, if it's someone else other than Guy doing it, it's possible things got screwed up. My understanding is that Guy is no longer affiliated with ovation, so I have no idea about that.
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post #37 of 91
11/18/07 at 6:32pm
I'm not making any "claims," just reporting what I read in an e-mail from a competent technician. We sell these on our web site, so I'm in no hurry to discredit its value. I'm willing to consider other perspectives. You may be right about the IRE approach.

Just because Guy Kuo may have been involved doesn't guarantee anything. We all make errors, or someone in the chain after his involvement could have made an error. Let us know what you find, please.
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post #38 of 91
11/19/07 at 8:32am
I decided to purchase this on ebay primarily because it seems to have a great test for contrast. I love my DVE and have been able to adjust brightness (shouldn't it really be called darkness?), color and tint. But on my direct-view HDTV, the white box doesn't really "bloom", nor does the vertical line bend like in the illustrations. So I'm excited to try the contrast test from the Avia II. May as well check the color and brightness from the disc too.
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post #39 of 91
11/19/07 at 1:15pm
I checked out Amazon for the cost of ordering Avia II from them... it has it listed, but it will not be released for sale until Jan. 1, 2008... is this an updated NTSC disc?

Because this is my first post, it will not let me post the link, but if anyone goes to Amazon, and does a search for Avia II, it will come up for $34.99.

On the Avia package on that webpage, it says that it is an update. Does anyone know about this?

Thanks,

Jim
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post #40 of 91
11/19/07 at 5:59pm
If you already own avia, you can get a lower "update" price for Avia II. Directions are on ovation's site.
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post #41 of 91
11/19/07 at 10:38pm
Is there any Avia on BLU RAY ?
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post #42 of 91
11/20/07 at 6:44am
Not yet. Maybe by the end of the year. No one really knows, including the manufacturer. All the announced HD test discs have been fraught with repeated unexpected delays and technical complications.
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post #43 of 91
11/20/07 at 9:36am
thank you.

is the avia II releasead yet ? amazon says january 2008
but in ebay seems like they sellin it right now
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post #44 of 91
11/20/07 at 9:52am
We have inventory, I don't know who else does.
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post #45 of 91
11/20/07 at 10:01am
NTSC version is available just not the HD-DVD or BluRay version until the end or first of the year but may be longer the way its going. Doug
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post #46 of 91
11/20/07 at 7:28pm
Well, I got my Avia today.


I like my DVE better.
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post #47 of 91
11/21/07 at 5:46am
Voyeur,
Could you elaborate? I keep asking this, b/c I have never used DVE, but have always been quite satisfied w/my copy of Avia. TIA.
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post #48 of 91
11/21/07 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasV555 View Post

Voyeur,
Could you elaborate? I keep asking this, b/c I have never used DVE, but have always been quite satisfied w/my copy of Avia. TIA.

My biggest problem is I should have bought the original Avia. They had a contrast test that sounded perfect for me from a website (which described a test in which you can raise contrast until a white bar disappears, etc). I thought for sure the same test would be included in the Avia II but is not. It's basically the same contrast test as in the DVE. Needless to say, that was HUGELY disappointing.

I like the newer color bar test more on the DVE (a little easier to tell the exact point where blue matches), although the red-push test pattern on the Avia is interesting.

Brightness test is the same as the DVE except the black bars move from side to side.

I do like the sharpness test more on the Avia, which reinforces the fact I should keep it at it's lowest setting.

You can pause the test patterns during the basic calibration scenes of the disc, but you CANNOT pause for their extra test patterns. So I had to keep selecting the same test a couple of times to try certain adjustments. Really annoying. This is not a problem with the DVE.

One great thing about the DVE is all the color filters are attached to a single card. On the Avia, they are separate strips. Okay, so that's not a big deal, but I can see losing one of those strips if not careful (although I'm usually pretty careful).

I'm being a little unfair to the Avia II because I was expecting something slightly different from the DVE. I was especially hoping for better help with contrast (I need it, the top white box doesn't really bloom...the black line doesn't bend, etc). Perhaps what I'm looking for is from the original Avia DVD.
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post #49 of 91
11/21/07 at 8:25pm
Here's the link to the 50 page PDF of a detailed explanation for using the advanced test patterns and audio tones on 'Avia II': http://www.ovationmultimedia.com/fil...anual_2007.pdf .

There is also a 21 page PDF of a glossary of terms: http://www.ovationmultimedia.com/fil...ssary_2007.pdf .

The advanced test patterns offer several that would make adjusting contrast on a digital display more easy and precise. Review the 50 page PDF and pick one that you think will suit your needs.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #50 of 91
11/22/07 at 12:59am
Thanks for the link.

Cannot wait for the HD versions now!

Mark
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post #51 of 91
11/22/07 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyeur View Post

My biggest problem is I should have bought the original Avia. They had a contrast test that sounded perfect for me from a website (which described a test in which you can raise contrast until a white bar disappears, etc). I thought for sure the same test would be included in the Avia II but is not. It's basically the same contrast test as in the DVE. Needless to say, that was HUGELY disappointing.

I like the newer color bar test more on the DVE (a little easier to tell the exact point where blue matches), although the red-push test pattern on the Avia is interesting.

Brightness test is the same as the DVE except the black bars move from side to side.

I do like the sharpness test more on the Avia, which reinforces the fact I should keep it at it's lowest setting.

You can pause the test patterns during the basic calibration scenes of the disc, but you CANNOT pause for their extra test patterns. So I had to keep selecting the same test a couple of times to try certain adjustments. Really annoying. This is not a problem with the DVE.

One great thing about the DVE is all the color filters are attached to a single card. On the Avia, they are separate strips. Okay, so that's not a big deal, but I can see losing one of those strips if not careful (although I'm usually pretty careful).

I'm being a little unfair to the Avia II because I was expecting something slightly different from the DVE. I was especially hoping for better help with contrast (I need it, the top white box doesn't really bloom...the black line doesn't bend, etc). Perhaps what I'm looking for is from the original Avia DVD.

There are numerous iterations of the same moving white bar pattern in Avia two which are exactly like the one in Avia, except significantly improved because they include above-white bars which Avia did not. It seems to me you simply need to locate and use those patterns. I.e. read the manual.
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post #52 of 91
11/22/07 at 7:54am
Voyeur,
The pattern you are looking for is in the lower left of the color checkerboard according ot the pdf.

I remember using this pattern on Avia and frankly, it only helped w/ the cheapest or earliest generation fixed pixel displays. Most of the time I could max out contrast and the display would still show both bars.

I wonder sometimes if the flashing from the Avia color bars pattern does not cause an issue w/ edge enhancement or some video processing. This pattern always shows the color balance to be off on most displays.

Overall there wasn't anything to serious in your critques. Thanks.
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post #53 of 91
11/22/07 at 10:22am
Hey guys I just bought a Sharp LC-32D43U HDTV, I spent all day yesterday trying to search for a calibration DVD. But I have no idea with what to go with. I'm a noob, not too familiar with all the terms, but I am looking at the glossary a certain poster posted up. My TV is being used for PS3 (HDMI), 360 (Component), HD Cable Programming (Component), and sometimes my PC. The only thing I really used to get a decent picture was the THX optimizer that came with my Star Wars movie, as much as I love the color and detail I feel its a little dark for my gaming. What would you guy recommend picking up. I'm able to purchase online, so that won't be a problem. Thanks!
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post #54 of 91
11/22/07 at 10:49am
Quote:


I feel its a little dark for my gaming. What would you guy recommend picking up

You may have to re-adjust your picture settings for many games. Many (possibly even most) game studios don't adhere to video standards, use calibrated monitors, or master their programs in reference viewing environments. Therefore, their games behave erratically when it comes to image settings. This miserable state of affairs is gradually changing. THX certified games follow imaging industry standards and should perform correctly on a calibrated monitor.

For your computer, I would recommend 'DisplayMate Multimedia Edition' from displaymate.com. For DVD, you could start with 'Avia II' or 'Digital Video Essentials.' 'DVE' is available as a combo disc with HD DVD on one side and SD DVD on the other.
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post #55 of 91
11/22/07 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

You may have to re-adjust your picture settings for many games. Many (possibly even most) game studios don't adhere to video standards, use calibrated monitors, or master their programs in reference viewing environments. Therefore, their games behave erratically when it comes to image settings. This miserable state of affairs is gradually changing. THX certified games follow imaging industry standards and should perform correctly on a calibrated monitor.

For your computer, I would recommend 'DisplayMate Multimedia Edition' from displaymate.com. For DVD, you could start with 'Avia II' or 'Digital Video Essentials.' 'DVE' is available as a combo disc with HD DVD on one side and SD DVD on the other.

Hey thanks for the reply, hopefully if I can get my co-worker to let my borrow his add-on HD-DVD player I could buy the HDDVD version of DVE. If not I'll just go with AVIA 2. I know there's lots to learn about, what else would you recommend looking into for a rookie/noob, lol? Thanks once again!
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post #56 of 91
11/22/07 at 11:36am
Subscribe to Widescreen Review magazine, get this back issue: 'Imaging Science Theatre 2000: Everything You Wanted To Know About Video But Were Afraid To Ask' http://cinemaquestinc.com/isf-mag.htm , read the Guy Kuo quotes in the calibration FAQ sticky thread in this section of the forum. Beware of personal opinions, guessing, fads, popular fashion, etc. Stick to imaging industry standards and recommended practices, logic, reason, facts, data. Remember your eyes can be easily fooled: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Image fidelity is the goal of video calibration NOT personal preference. It's all about the art.

http://www.displaymate.com/shootout.html
http://hdguru.com/
http://www.isfforum.com/
http://jkpi.net/
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post #57 of 91
11/22/07 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Subscribe to Widescreen Review magazine, get this back issue: 'Imaging Science Theatre 2000: Everything You Wanted To Know About Video But Were Afraid To Ask' http://cinemaquestinc.com/isf-mag.htm , read the Guy Kuo quotes in the calibration FAQ sticky thread in this section of the forum. Beware of personal opinions, guessing, fads, popular fashion, etc. Stick to imaging industry standards and recommended practices, logic, reason, facts, data. Remember your eyes can be easily fooled: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . Image fidelity is the goal of video calibration NOT personal preference. It's all about the art.

I wish Widescreen Review would do a 2008 version. my 2000 issue is getting old.
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post #58 of 91
11/22/07 at 5:52pm
Do you guys recommend Avia 2 II Home Theater Tune-Up Calibration Guide DVD
to calibrate my LCD samsung 1080P and my onkyo receiver ?

Thank you
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post #59 of 91
11/22/07 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasV555 View Post

Voyeur,
The pattern you are looking for is in the lower left of the color checkerboard according ot the pdf.

I remember using this pattern on Avia and frankly, it only helped w/ the cheapest or earliest generation fixed pixel displays. Most of the time I could max out contrast and the display would still show both bars.

I wonder sometimes if the flashing from the Avia color bars pattern does not cause an issue w/ edge enhancement or some video processing. This pattern always shows the color balance to be off on most displays.

Overall there wasn't anything to serious in your critques. Thanks.

I actually had seen those, but wondered if they were the same thing (frankly they're a little different because they're crammed down in a smaller white screen. But I wasn't sure because (as you mentioned) I can still see all three bars when maxed out. I guess that's it. More reason not to be overly impressed.

As far as my critiques, I was just pointing out what I like better about the DVE. There are other things I like about the DVE, such as their very extensive tutorials and background information. And the DVE has a very nice footage you can view after calibrating you television.

I would say this: If you already have the original Avia disc, I can't imagine any reason to get the Avia II, other than the fact it's in widescreen format.

PS: Don't underestimate just how annoying the inability to pause those advanced test patterns can be...You may think that's no big deal, but the patterns don't stay on there for long.
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post #60 of 91
11/22/07 at 7:20pm
Quote:


I wish Widescreen Review would do a 2008 version. my 2000 issue is getting old.

It's still is a great resource for historical perspective, imaging science fundamentals, viewing environment principles, projection screen design principles, etc. I encourage you to drop Gary Reber an e-mail to suggest another imaging science special issue with updated articles. I've done that several times in recent years. There are many articles that would be suitable to include from: Joe Kane, Lancelot Braithwaite, Dr. Raymond Soneira, etc.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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