Denon Preamp model AVP-A1HDCI Pictures & Info- - Page 48

As would I, if my dealer lied due to another agenda then certainly I will be addressing it with him.

Edit: I have just dispatched an email asking for my S/N from the box so that I can call Denon directly as an end user, for what reason does the dealer have motivation to lie and tell me there is a problem? The only thing I can think of is that he didn't get the AVP, I've asked for picture of my AVP with the S/N of it as well, along with the pictures of all of my equipment.

Maybe someone paid him extra cash in his pockets so he/she got your avp unit... thus they have to wait for a new avp to send you ?

Could be, however he certainly offered to send me my AVP immediately along with everything else, I didn't just get an AVP I got the following

Denon stuff AVP, POA, 3930, 2500
JVC RS2 with 2.35:1 lens, and sled
Focal Electra 1037BE, CC1000BE, SR1000BE
Transparent cables
Stewart 120" 2.35:1 screen
Velodyne 1812 Signature

Maybe the dealer was on credit hold with Denon when the first quantities were getting divied up; or if he's not big enough to buy direct from Denon, his distributor didn't have enough to cover his order on the first go-round. Maybe he made up the story never thinking that his customer might repeat it on a popular internet forum. Any way you slice it, it sucks.

I can't see your supplier lying to you on purpose. Surely?

Well, I suppose it would be like bluffing in poker for him at this point, being that he knows this is all getting professionally installed and is part of the "big picture" I could have very easily said "I'll deal with Denon myself send my pallet(s) with all of my equipment.

Which I very well might do still, it is an option but for now I'm going to call Denon direct when I get my S/N from my AVP.

Nothing makes me angrier than a liar, if I find out this is the case I'll be asking for 100% of every dollar I paid, it doesn't scare me to use an attorney for civil litigation I have one on retainer for other matters already anyway. If he lied and I deciminated (sp?) false information than I apologize in advance but perhaps he knows things people haven't heard of.

As far as his company being "small time" well they do screening rooms for the studios like New Line Cinemas etc, multimillion dollar installs mine is nothing in comparison to those.

Hmm. Perhaps he miss-heard something or perhaps as you say, it was a tactic to delay you a few days.

Well I wish you luck anyway - sounds like you got allot of work ahead integrating all that kit, but my god it should be worth it - and I for one want to see lots of pictures!

How about because he has another buyer who is offering full retail price. I think the dealer is pulling a fast one on you.

Had a lengthy conversation, apparently some units have the issue and others don't. Denon is not going to admit to it being a "known problem" right now as they feel it is isolated to "some" units.

Long story short after my lengthy discussion with the dealer is that he has been able to get another AVP from the second batch where they apparently have fixed the issue without a doubt. I was advised that during the creation of the first batch they discovered a "possible" problem and Denon wanted to be very proactive and overly cautious.

The reason this dealer and Denon rep / engineering felt it was better to be safe was because this install is a "remote" install. Meaning that it is being done far away and the hassle of having this installed and there be a problem isn't worth waiting a week or two.

He managed to get Denon rep to get me a unit when he goes somewhere (can't remember where) this week, supposedly Thurs or Fri he'll have it and ready to ship for Monday on the pallet. The dealer said that he is extra cautious when it comes to installs as problems = $$$ especially in my case as to have everything installed and programmed is going to be many thousands of dollars. In fact I have to sign a contract that states if equipment or "customer" issues arise that aren't the fault of the installer that I still have to pay them for the work and to come back. That's where the problems = $$$ comes in.

I'd say to everyone if you have an AVP already don't worry you have 3 yr warranty perhaps your AVP was already corrected. I didn't have to post the information in the first place but like I said you guys (AVS) for many years has been extremely helpful and I do what I can which is very little to try to help others.

This will sound like a trolling-type of posting and I do NOT troll!! This is a sincere request for opinions.

My McIntosh MX134 is obsolete in terms of digital functioning with HDMI and McIntosh is not even planning on bringing out a new pre/pro for a couple of years AND I no longer see the practicality in spending that kind of money on something that becomes obsolete so quickly, having learned the hard way.

With that said, I am seeking the very best HT digital HDMI 1.3 pre/pro with full lossless HD audio decoding capabilities, but with a price/performance/quality ratio that makes practical as well as good HT sense. I am serious enough about sound quality to have three McIntosh monos and two stereo amps for the 7.1 sound amplification.

Without meaning to offend anyone on this thread (I am a Denon fan and still have a 5700 receiver stored for later use), I don't know how else to politely phrase the question: "What does the new Denon pre/pro do better and how is it better to justify an additional $4500 over the Integra pre/pro." Surely some of you have gone through this same quandry since these two are the first full-featured digital pre/pros out there. I had hoped that Pioneer Elite would take the pre/pro out of the SC-09TX receiver since it is awesome too and is purposely separate from the integrated amps.

My MX134 will go on A-gon in a few weeks after McIntosh retail pricing goes up 25% and I need a replacement pre/pro.

Thoughts/opinions?

Cheers,

MikeSp

hi mike have a read of this article here,

http://www.listenup.com/content/part...dge.feb.08.php

jeff there goes into a little bit of whats behind the denon AVP.

as to real world comparisons or differences thats somethign youd have to find out by yourself preferably in your own system with a back to back comparison with the integra or anything else your considering.

Hi All,
I have been following this thread with great interest. Unfortunately, I can't find a dealer in the Chicago area who will be stocking these. I'm planning on replacing my Theta Casablanca 3, but my question is to the video side. I currently am using a Lumagen HD Pro for scaling and video switching. How are the scaling and switching abilities of the Denon.

Thanks,
David Shapiro

Certainly very good questions Mike and I imagine everyone who has decided on this preamp has asked the same things..

My gear is comparable to yours - have a pair of Mac amps with a pair of Mark Levinsons. I sold my Lex MC12B ver 5 as I had a buyer although I would have liked to compare it against the Denon but even that would be difficult..

The guy who bought my Lex is VERY happy - he had an MC1 - bought the Integra 9.8 - was very disappointed with the 9.8 and sold it..

the Integra is a great bang for the buck unit and will sell lots because it gives many finally an affordable way to get into separates..

Selling my Lex and not wasting $$ on an interim upgrade to a MC12HD, makes the Denon an easy choice for me..

I will be truly shocked if for any reason I'll miss the Lex from a sound quality perspective..

Not so much the Denon AVP vs the 9.8 - more of this Denon vs the Lex, Classe, Theta,and Halcros - just what will the others offer SQ wise, to justify the extra costs and UNKNOWN waiting?

I don't rate the Onkyo sound personally, although I cannot speak for the Integra pre-pro. I have heard Onkyo and I have heard Denon, and for me Denon wins every time. A mate of mine came to the same conclusion.

I just don't get a warm feeling about their products.

My AVP ships tomorrow so in about a week I can join the club!

I currently own an Integra Research RDC-7.1 which is made by Oinkyo. I never considered the 9.8 based on my experience with the RDC-7.1. Oinkyo has proven time and time again that they have serious quality issues, honesty issues, and don't care about their customers. Denon isn't perfect but they provide a much better quality product and support after the sale. Don't take my word for it, check out these threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13380136
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=386266
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=487602
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929985
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881652

We are thinking alike here. Theta has been a huge disappointment and had I gone with the original Casablanca with its "guaranteed" nonobsolescence, it would have cost me far more than the money was there to pay for and would have been a huge mistake. Classe' has a new pre/pro that is about to come out, but both its design compared to my classic Mc pieces as well as its SUBSTANTIALLY higher costs than the former model will eliminate it for me. Halcros are definitely out of my price range. I refuse to wait for the MX138 and even IF I were willing to purchase an MX138, I predict that it will not do anything better than the Denon and Mc is a fabulous analog and amp company, but they lag behind on digital and have not always IMHO made the best decisions on their latest pre/pros. It appears that pre/pros have become a throw-away piece due to obsolescence and thus, spending huge sums on high end source and processing pieces does not, for this person, make sense. For those with deeper pockets, then they likely will have different opinions. I just cannot believe that the very high end brands of pre/pros no matter what brand, will have features or quality of digital sound higher than that of the Denon for double or triple its cost, after all, lossless is lossless is lossless and the main difference (other than feature sets and overall design, touch and feel) are the DACs since up to that point, everything in the digital domain should be identical in sound quality. YMMV of course...

I have asked Pioneer Elite IF they were going to market the pre/pro part of their fabulous SC-09TX receiver (amps are basically separate), but they will not even respond to my query.

ANOTHER concern that I have, IF the bigboys are waiting in the wings for another year or two before bringing out pre/pros, then I worry a bit about it being too soon for the other brands to bring them out -- what mistakes are being made and what mistake would I be making were I to purchase a Denon -- I cannot listen to one since nobody in the Kansas City area stocks them or has one in an audition room, so my purchase would be based upon comments in this thread and magazine reviews.

Speaking of magazine reviews -- have there been any magazine reviews of the new Denon pre/pro??

MikeSp

MikeSp

I don't have this concern - initial reports by AVP owners indicate the unit is working fine..

The real reason the boutique players release their products after the denons and Pioneers is because the big boys get the needed chips first and the smaller players have to wait..

Available resources would be a secondary factor..

I have to think that this new Denon unit would be of concern to the boutique companies..

It eliminates two of the market advantages the smaller players have:

1- it's a preamp

2-sound quality

When you add in the other 2 factors of lower price and it actually exists, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the boutique companies to maneuver and give us reasons to buy their products..

About all they can hang to will be status and prestige, and perceived better sound quality with real better sound quality open for debate..

I really wanted to be a Theta owner for some time now but they don't make it easy..

My real passion is multichannel DVD-A and SACD..I was THRILLED when DVD-A came out followed by SACD soon after..

I contacted Theta who made it very clear they wanted to wait for an all digital implementation and were not planning on adding the 6 analogs in..

This made the MC12 the obvious choice with it's extra DACS to redigitze the 5.1 analogs and I have been very happy with it all these years..

Bringing out interim solutions is IMHO a mistake - Classe should wait till they can add onboard decoding and then formally release the 800 with it's final price..same with Lexicon..I would not have bothered bringing out the MC12HD..

Lexicon should have said our new piece is actively under development - we are waiting to add in 1.3 and onboard decoding of the new lossless audio tracks. We will only release it when it is stable and as in the past we will offer a generous trade in allowance to current Lexicon owners..

Had they done this, odds are good I would have added a Zektor switch and just waited it out..they might even have attracted new Lexicon customers from the current owners who don't want to wait, and sell their units for a bargain to the next owner..

Hey Mikesp, take a day trip and drive to Mexico, Missouri and listen to my AVP A1HD. I'll be glad to accomadate you, and I can tell you where to get one!!

The next time that I get over to Columbia, I will make arrangements with you so that I can stop---thanks!!!

MikeSp

If you're into DVD-A and SACD's for music you'll love DTS HD MA IMO this should be the new standard for music recording.

I imagine with the volume that the Theta's an Classe's sell in comparison to a beomoth like Denon that one of their issues has to be getting reliable component supply. My understanding is a lot of the delays by all manuyfacturers since 1.3 is due to a shortage of processing chips etc.

and/or DolbyTrueHD would be fine for me as replacements for DVD-A and SACD..

I am cautiously hopeful that blu ray will breathe new life for multichannel recordings of studio albums..

In the very least we will get concerts in lossless audio..

IF Marantz and Denon have a reliable component supply, then surely McIntosh can "borrow" a few hundred or thousand components or chipsets since they are all owned by the same company (D&H Holdings).

MikeSp

As I look closer at this pre/pro (sure wish that there were more alternatives than the Integra and this Denon just for help in making the best decision), it appears that there are 3 RCA subwoofer outputs and 9 RCA speaker outputs.

IF 7 speakers (not counting subs) are actually used, can I assume that the two unused speaker outputs will not matter when 5.1 or 7.1 material is brought in via HDMI and decoded by this Denon pre/pro?

Since there are three subwoofer outputs and there is the capability of Audyssey room equalization, is the SMS-1 even necessary or any advantage at all?

It appears that in the lower left of the display panel on the front of the pre/pro that a small light appears for each speaker that information is being brought in and on the right side of the display panel, there is a light for each speaker that is receiving decoded information -- did I correctly interpret both the functioning of the input speaker indicators and the output speaker indicators?

Can HDMI inputs be re-assigned so that they show up correctly on the display (I need displayed indicators for HD-DVD Player 1, BD Player 1, BD Player 2, DVD player 1 -- or something equivalent)

Does it matter if other brands of amplifers are used -- obviously the manual shows diagrams using only the POA-A1HDCI?

Observation: There is NO need (even if it costs Denon and ultimately the purchaser perhaps only $50) for that many legacy inputs -- without so many, it would give the real estate on the back much more room -- the thing is overcrowded with the legacy connects.

MikeSp

That is correct; you configure the pre to match what speakers you have.



To answer this question, in theory yes the Audyssey is a replacement for the SMS1 and should do the job better since the three subwoofers are EQ'd separately not as one as with the SMS1


That's correct, I'm running 9.1 currently and in the setup menu you can enable any additional surrounds for each audio mode, so in my case all 9 speakers are operational no matter how many input channels there are, for example if its 5.1 on the left as input, the right side shows 9.1 as output.


Yes they can this is what I've done, mine show up as HD STB, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD etc. The only downside is the remote doesn't reflect these changes, using a third party universal remote fixes this problem.


Yes you can use other amps with the pre, I'm using two different brands presently one for the mains, and another for the centre and surrounds. I control these via the 12v triggers.

Anyone that can say how much better the denon AVP is compared to onkyo/integra pre/pro's worth the extra cost for AVP ?

I bought the Integra first. Then I bought the Denon and sold the Integra. They are both fantastic components. The Integra offers a very complete set of features at its price point, while the Denon, typical of a high-end processor, allows you to customize and tweak pretty much everything it does. And it does everything. I wanted much more control, for example, over the video processing options for each of my video sources. The Integra is more of a basic switcher/scaler, geared toward easier plug-n-play use, while the Denon offers the flexibility I was looking for. I can't speak to the sound of the Integra, as I didn't keep it that long. But the Denon, paired with my Anthem amps, sounds better than anything I've ever owned.

Now, as to whether it justifies the price difference? That's one of those things everybody has to decide for themselves. (Some people pay thousands for luxury extras in their cars, others can't fathom why...) "Better," beyond basic build quality anyway, is only a function of how well a component suits your particular needs and taste. If you look over at the Integra thread, there are tons of new owners who are thrilled with that unit. Similarly, the new Denon owners, most of whom have had the AVP for only a couple weeks at most, are loving it too. They're all right- they bought the best pre-amp for their needs.

Spearmint -- thanks for your answers -- you did a great job and helped a lot!! Now for the hardest decision--Integra or Denon pre/pro (I am not one to swap out equipment very often, therefore such a decision is difficult and important to me since the piece will be with me for years...)

MikeSp

You're welcome.

I have no first hand knowledge of the Integra, however with regards to the Denon, its very quiet in operation, all the speakers are silent no additional hiss or other extraneous noises, and the HDMI works flawlessly.

The flexibility and customisation of the Denon is what won me over, the Audyssey appears to work brilliantly with some minor manual intervention, other than what I regard as crap remotes the Denon has most things we enthusiasts are going to need for quite a while to come I reckon.