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***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 90

post #2671 of 2827
1/25/13 at 9:35am
In a 11x11x8 space, the Sierra-1 should have no issue, and definitely sound better than the 340SE's.

For movies, you will still want a nice subwoofer. The quality of bass that comes from the Sierras is outstanding, and you are going want to match that quality in a subwoofer. I would suggest a Rythmik FV12, or for a little less, a Hsu VTF2-MK4.

As for the center, the best match is obviously the Sierra-1 center. Will you be losing much if you went with a 340SE center? That is subjective, and only you can judge your preferences. The good thing is that all Ascend speakers have good timbre matching relative to one another.

Ascend B-stock is excellent on all their products, and can often pass for A-stock with other company's standards.
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post #2672 of 2827
1/25/13 at 10:30am
Thanks for the responses. I'm trying to gather as much info as possible.

I really want the Sierra-1's despite the larger price tag. I would have to delay purchase of the center and subwoofer longer than with the 170 SE's, but that is not a deterrent.

The reason I asked about the Sierra-1 center vs 340 SE Center is due to the former not having the traditional MTM design, though I don't think lacking the additional midwoofer will be a problem in my small room. I've read that the 340 SE Center has very clear dialogue. Is this the case with the Sierra-1 center as well?

I'm curious did any of you purchase the optional full magnetic shielding for the Sierra-1's? I have a plasma TV so that's not an issue, but I did wonder about my DVR.
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post #2673 of 2827
1/25/13 at 10:38am
The Sierra-1 has clear dialogue as well. Dialogue is not an issue with any Ascend speaker.

Magnetic shielding...I don't have it. My DVR is less than 6 inches from my center...but separated by a wood top. I've never heard of anyone having any issue with a DVR and a speaker.
Edited by cschang - 1/25/13 at 10:51am
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post #2674 of 2827
1/25/13 at 10:57am
I tried searching for some specific info on the Sierra-1's efficiency as it correlates to AVR dB levels, but couldn't find it. If I have the volume set to lets say -30dB on my Denon 1712 with the CBM-170 SE's, what would I have to set the AVR to to get the same level with the Sierra-1's? .
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post #2675 of 2827
1/25/13 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I tried searching for some specific info on the Sierra-1's efficiency as it correlates to AVR dB levels, but couldn't find it. If I have the volume set to lets say -30dB on my Denon 1712 with the CBM-170 SE's, what would I have to set the AVR to to get the same level with the Sierra-1's? .
The 170SE's are 89dB @ 1 watt/ 1 meter, and the Sierra-1 is 86.5dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter. The difference being 2.5 dB.
If the scale on the Denon is correct, you would need to raise the level by 2-3dB.

You can do this for any speaker...so it is not specific to a brand or model of speaker. It is also dependent on room interaction. It is always best to use a SPL meter and test tones if you really want to match.
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post #2676 of 2827
1/25/13 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

The 170SE's are 89dB @ 1 watt/ 1 meter, and the Sierra-1 is 86.5dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter. The difference being 2.5 dB.
If the scale on the Denon is correct, you would need to raise the level by 2-3dB.

You can do this for any speaker...so it is not specific to a brand or model of speaker. It is also dependent on room interaction. It is always best to use a SPL meter and test tones if you really want to match.

Thanks for the info. I doubt I'd find the Sierra-1s to not be loud enough given my room size and the fact that I'd be ~7ft from them.
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post #2677 of 2827
1/25/13 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Thanks for the info. I doubt I'd find the Sierra-1s to not be loud enough given my room size and the fact that I'd be ~7ft from them.
You'll be more than fine.
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post #2678 of 2827
1/25/13 at 12:05pm
There's the consideration that it takes approx twice the power from your amp to increase spl by 3db. I also still think you'll be more than fine in your size room if you're using an average avr and less than extremely loud playback.

As to your query about shielding, the only time I ever had a shielding issue was an unshielded sub sitting directly below and in front of a CRTRP tv. I've had center speakers quite close to dvrs before without issue, but not in direct contact (would think it'd take some pretty serious sized magnets to throw out a field that would affect a dvr but I really don't know).
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post #2679 of 2827
1/25/13 at 12:10pm
I have a large, odd shaped and complicated family room. Speaker and SW size and placement is very limited. Two months ago I replaced my front mains with the sierra-1s with the NrT and magnetic shielding options and a polk SW with the new, SVS SB 1000 SW. Mostly BR movies and TV some music.

Could not be more pleased and impressed with the SQ and response from such small units. Bass from sierras is really good as well. The SB 1000 SW is unbelievably smooth and wall shaking for it's size.biggrin.gif

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb-1000
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post #2680 of 2827
1/25/13 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

There's the consideration that it takes approx twice the power from your amp to increase spl by 3db. I also still think you'll be more than fine in your size room if you're using an average avr and less than extremely loud playback.

As to your query about shielding, the only time I ever had a shielding issue was an unshielded sub sitting directly below and in front of a CRTRP tv. I've had center speakers quite close to dvrs before without issue, but not in direct contact (would think it'd take some pretty serious sized magnets to throw out a field that would affect a dvr but I really don't know).

I played several source content - "Toy Story 3" blu-ray, FLAC music files - and I was fine with the volume set to -35db to -20db on my Denon 1712. "Toy Story 3" at -20db was too loud, but some songs I had to play at -20dB to get to the same level as other songs at -30db to -25dB. I think -20dB is my threshold.
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post #2681 of 2827
1/25/13 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

There's the consideration that it takes approx twice the power from your amp to increase spl by 3db. I also still think you'll be more than fine in your size room if you're using an average avr and less than extremely loud playback.

As to your query about shielding, the only time I ever had a shielding issue was an unshielded sub sitting directly below and in front of a CRTRP tv. I've had center speakers quite close to dvrs before without issue, but not in direct contact (would think it'd take some pretty serious sized magnets to throw out a field that would affect a dvr but I really don't know).

I played several source content - "Toy Story 3" blu-ray, FLAC music files - and I was fine with the volume set to -35db to -20db on my Denon 1712. "Toy Story 3" at -20db was too loud, but some songs I had to play at -20dB to get to the same level as other songs at -30db to -25dB. I think -20dB is my threshold.

More than likely then you'd still be fine with the Sierra-1s at the same listening levels without worrying about your amp. FWIW I did an A/B/C test with a speaker switching box I have; one pair was Sierra-1s, another my 170SEs. I adjusted 2.5db/3db on my avr setting to compensate for the difference in sensitivity (yeah, not super accurate, but before I got an Omnimic) and while I still preferred the Sierras, the 170SEs were close, more so than I had expected. The third pair was a pair of SVS MBS02s even less efficient at 83db...and personally I liked the Ascends over the SVS.
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post #2682 of 2827
1/25/13 at 9:00pm
What's the exact distance from the bottom of the cabinet to the middle of the tweeter?
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post #2683 of 2827
1/26/13 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

In a 11x11x8 space, the Sierra-1 should have no issue, and definitely sound better than the 340SE's.

For movies, you will still want a nice subwoofer. The quality of bass that comes from the Sierras is outstanding, and you are going want to match that quality in a subwoofer. I would suggest a Rythmik FV12, or for a little less, a Hsu VTF2-MK4.

As for the center, the best match is obviously the Sierra-1 center. Will you be losing much if you went with a 340SE center? That is subjective, and only you can judge your preferences. The good thing is that all Ascend speakers have good timbre matching relative to one another.

Ascend B-stock is excellent on all their products, and can often pass for A-stock with other company's standards.

When you say "In a 11x11x8 space, the Sierra-1 should have no issue, and definitely sound better than the 340SE's." do you meant that the Sierra-1's would sound better than LCR 340 SE's in my room?

As far as a subwoofer, my budget is ~$500, including shipping and taxes. I've been looking at the SVS SB-1000, PB-1000, and HSU VTF-1 MK2. Would any one of those subs work well with the Sierra-1's? I have also looked at the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and the Rythmik FV12 that you mentioned, but they would have to be ~$500 total for me to consider them.
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post #2684 of 2827
1/26/13 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

As far as a subwoofer, my budget is ~$500, including shipping and taxes. I've been looking at the SVS SB-1000, PB-1000, and HSU VTF-1 MK2. Would any one of those subs work well with the Sierra-1's? I have also looked at the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and the Rythmik FV12 that you mentioned, but they would have to be ~$500 total for me to consider them.

As I posted earlier the SB 1000 sounds great to me with the sierra. Actually I got dual SB 1000s. I would have gotten the PB 1000 but as I said I have very restricted size placement restrictions since it is not a man cave rolleyes.gif. Bass is smooth across the range and and when the bombs go off and the train crashes you run for cover. I should mention that I have a Denon 4311CI with audessey XT32 to balance it all in a 9.2 setup.
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post #2685 of 2827
1/26/13 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I tried searching for some specific info on the Sierra-1's efficiency as it correlates to AVR dB levels, but couldn't find it. If I have the volume set to lets say -30dB on my Denon 1712 with the CBM-170 SE's, what would I have to set the AVR to to get the same level with the Sierra-1's? .

I'm probably the perfect person to answer your question, because I own a pair of Sierra-1, driven by Denon AVR-1713, in a room which is only about 30% larger than yours. I have my Denon volume control set6 to display on the 0-98 decimal scale, rather than the dB scale. I do not EVER turn the volume past 65. At that level, there could be issues with Sierra-1 attempting to handle extremely low notes (classical organ), but they don't exhibit any clipping-inspired distortion at that level. And they are able to produce accurate, sudden transient 'attacks', without strain, from the music which I do listen too. (Mahler, Pink Floyd... various things which like to be fairly loud.) My distance is about 9' from each speaker. I have the Audessy-XT volume "compressor" turned off. (I'm using Audessy to provide only moderate amounts of room-related EQ.)

If the Amplifier section of my 1713 versus your 1712 wasn't upgraded, then you will have plenty of power - not enough to to match a continuous ear-damaging Rock Concert (120 dB), but enough to match transient attacks which match a motorcycle under hard acceleration (110 dB or so.) Not continuously - you'll burn out the speaker voice coils, damage your ears, and maybe get "friendly visits" from the police too. But for transients, on top of a pretty loud LOUD average level (considerably louder than a vacuum cleaner) - you're current AVR could drive a Sierra-1 on each of the 5 channels just fine.
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post #2686 of 2827
1/26/13 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1 View Post

As I posted earlier the SB 1000 sounds great to me with the sierra. Actually I got dual SB 1000s. I would have gotten the PB 1000 but as I said I have very restricted size placement restrictions since it is not a man cave rolleyes.gif. Bass is smooth across the range and and when the bombs go off and the train crashes you run for cover. I should mention that I have a Denon 4311CI with audessey XT32 to balance it all in a 9.2 setup.

Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickst29 View Post

I'm probably the perfect person to answer your question, because I own a pair of Sierra-1, driven by Denon AVR-1713, in a room which is only about 30% larger than yours. I have my Denon volume control set6 to display on the 0-98 decimal scale, rather than the dB scale. I do not EVER turn the volume past 65. At that level, there could be issues with Sierra-1 attempting to handle extremely low notes (classical organ), but they don't exhibit any clipping-inspired distortion at that level. And they are able to produce accurate, sudden transient 'attacks', without strain, from the music which I do listen too. (Mahler, Pink Floyd... various things which like to be fairly loud.) My distance is about 9' from each speaker. I have the Audessy-XT volume "compressor" turned off. (I'm using Audessy to provide only moderate amounts of room-related EQ.)

If the Amplifier section of my 1713 versus your 1712 wasn't upgraded, then you will have plenty of power - not enough to to match a continuous ear-damaging Rock Concert (120 dB), but enough to match transient attacks which match a motorcycle under hard acceleration (110 dB or so.) Not continuously - you'll burn out the speaker voice coils, damage your ears, and maybe get "friendly visits" from the police too. But for transients, on top of a pretty loud LOUD average level (considerably louder than a vacuum cleaner) - you're current AVR could drive a Sierra-1 on each of the 5 channels just fine.

Thanks for the info. Well, if the Sierra-1's potentially have an issue handling extremely low notes (classical organ) at volume 65 than the 170 SE's would as well (probably more so since they only go down to 53Hz), right? I intend to add a subwoofer so that will give me the extreme lows.

The 1712 and 1713 amps are similar as far as WPC are concerned. The former has 90 WPC and the latter has 80 WPC. If the volume levels are similar between the two AVR's then 65 on the 1713 correlates to -15dB on the 1712. I haven't gone above -20dB, and I found some content too loud at that level, so I think the 1712 will have adequate power for me.
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post #2687 of 2827
1/26/13 at 8:12pm
Would someone do me a favor and measure the distance between the bottom of the cabinet and the midpoint of the tweeter?
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post #2688 of 2827
1/27/13 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Would someone do me a favor and measure the distance between the bottom of the cabinet and the midpoint of the tweeter?

11 1/2"
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post #2689 of 2827
1/28/13 at 7:06am
What's the ideal distance range for the SIerra-1's from the wall behind? What about the side walls? Or put another way what's the closest distance that they should be placed from the back and side walls to avoid sound issues?
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post #2690 of 2827
1/28/13 at 7:28am
I would say at least 1', preferably 2' for any speaker. But, since most of us do not have the luxury and flexibility of a true home theater room we don't always have that option. It is all a compromise among room constraints and of course the WAF factor wink.gif .
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post #2691 of 2827
1/28/13 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

What's the ideal distance range for the SIerra-1's from the wall behind? What about the side walls? Or put another way what's the closest distance that they should be placed from the back and side walls to avoid sound issues?

You can look at the speaker setup section in this faq http://www.avsforum.com/t/824554/setting-up-your-home-theater-101
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post #2692 of 2827
1/29/13 at 9:39am
I'm curious, how many of you are using the Sierra-1's without a subwoofer while listening to music? What about for HT?
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post #2693 of 2827
1/29/13 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I'm curious, how many of you are using the Sierra-1's without a subwoofer while listening to music? What about for HT?
I have used mine without a sub for music, but now the sub is always used. I have a great sub and it is dialed in perfectly.

For HT, with any speaker, I would use a sub. There is just so much low frequency content in action movies, a sub will always recreate it better, and the flexibility of placement is also another advantage.
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post #2694 of 2827
1/29/13 at 11:27am
Why doesn't Ascend Acoustics refund sales tax on speakers returned within the 30 day audition period? I can't remember not receiving the sales tax back for an item returned within the return period. I'm looking at upgrading my 170 SE's to Sierra-1's and it would be nice to get the sales tax back. It may not be that much, but every dollar counts.
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post #2695 of 2827
1/29/13 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Why doesn't Ascend Acoustics refund sales tax on speakers returned within the 30 day audition period? I can't remember not receiving the sales tax back for an item returned within the return period. I'm looking at upgrading my 170 SE's to Sierra-1's and it would be nice to get the sales tax back. It may not be that much, but every dollar counts.
Are you sure it is the sales tax you are speaking of, and not the shipping/handling?
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post #2696 of 2827
1/29/13 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Are you sure it is the sales tax you are speaking of, and not the shipping/handling?

No, the sales tax. I spoke to Dina earlier today and was told that they don't refund sales tax, which surprised me. I don't know if there is a distinction between returning them for a refund vs an upgrade, but I thought I would get the sales tax back.
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post #2697 of 2827
1/29/13 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I'm curious, how many of you are using the Sierra-1's without a subwoofer while listening to music? What about for HT?

Not me, use three subs myself. They're always on. Sierras (or most speakers really) just don't go low enough on their own for my taste.
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post #2698 of 2827
1/29/13 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Not me, use three subs myself. They're always on. Sierras (or most speakers really) just don't go low enough on their own for my taste.

What type of music do you listen to?
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post #2699 of 2827
1/29/13 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

No, the sales tax. I spoke to Dina earlier today and was told that they don't refund sales tax, which surprised me. I don't know if there is a distinction between returning them for a refund vs an upgrade, but I thought I would get the sales tax back.
So you paid the difference between the two speakers, and then tax on the difference?
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post #2700 of 2827
1/29/13 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

So you paid the difference between the two speakers, and then tax on the difference?

I haven't upgraded to the Sierra-1's yet. I called yesterday to ask a few questions, one of them was if I the upgrade credit for the 170 SE's included the sales tax. I was told no, that I only get the $298 list price of the speakers back, so no sales tax or shipping. I called again today to ask if returning them within the 30 day audition period made a difference, but again was told that they do not refund the sales tax. Maybe they only refund sales tax on straight returns, but not upgrades.

If what you stated above is what ends up happening then in the end I wouldn't be paying extra sales tax, I think.
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