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Switching to Klipsch THX Ultra2 system? Whats your opinion of it? - Page 2

post #31 of 127
I also compared these speakers to Magnapans, Axiom M80 system, Powered studio monitors, Paradigm, and the countless M&K speakers I mentioned before. If the maggies were more dynamic they would be my choice, but I might have needed a better amp with them. I also said for movies only. I have a dedicated theater.
post #32 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundood View Post

Funny, last time I went to the theater, I don't remember any Triad, Revel or Aerial Acoustics in there...only PA speakers.

Last time I went to a bus station, I don't remember being picked up by a Porsche 911 either.
post #33 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post

I would be willing to bet this person has never heard this system in a properly calibrated, high end theater. If he did, I'm sure his almost laughable comments would be a bit different.

Please.....

Please.....

If you knew who was in the room when I heard it, you'd drop dead. I won't bother saying, you wouldn't believe it, so why bother. IOW, it couldn't have been better calibrated. However, I will admit that the room could have been better.
post #34 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

John,

This may be the problem with you and Klipsch speakers. If you think they work best in a bright, echoey environment, then I'm not surprised you don't like them. I personally find they work best in a very controlled, somewhat dead environment.

Not saying they sound great in a live room, but that some great speakers can sound quite *bad* in one.
Quote:

My listening room is a "Live-End/Dead-End", (LEDE) room.

If you have a live-end/dead end room from the 70s, I'm not surprised that you love Klipsch

My problem isn't that they sound *bad*, it's just that they don't sound up to their price point whereas other speakers do.
post #35 of 127
Well John, you've certainly lived upto your billing as a "controversy magnet". Congratulations.

Craig
post #36 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

If you have a live-end/dead end room from the 70s, I'm not surprised that you love Klipsch

You're right that the LEDE moniker is old nomenclature. However, most contemporary acoustical experts are recommending similar acoustical treatments. Guys like Dennis Erskine, Terry Montlick, Ethan Winer, Glenn Kuras and Brian Pape, etc. all recommend some type of "Reflection Free Zone" and corner bass traps. There is a large body of evidence to support these recommendations.

http://www.designcinema.com/
http://www.tmlaboratories.com/
http://www.realtraps.com/
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

I was just *way* ahead of my time.

Craig
post #37 of 127
John, Joel, or Dr. Bernstein ... whatever you are calling yourself as the "You can't handle the truth" guy ... Why not add "Klipsch are not worth buying" to your signature, and be done with it.

This way, you won't need to barge into every Klipsch thread with your usual antics.
post #38 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

John, Joel, or Dr. Bernstein ... whatever you are calling yourself as the "You can't handle the truth" guy ... Why not add "Klipsch are not worth buying" to your signature, and be done with it.


Again, you're simply falling into the "discredit the messenger" trap instead of addressing the opinion (or simply allowing it as a different POV).

I have no problem with people buying Klipsch, but I do think it makes a whole lot of sense to listen a lot first. Everyone thinks their system is "the best" because they chose it.
post #39 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You're right that the LEDE moniker is old nomenclature. However, most contemporary acoustical experts are recommending similar acoustical treatments. Guys like Dennis Erskine, Terry Montlick, Ethan Winer, Glenn Kuras and Brian Pape, etc. all recommend some type of "Reflection Free Zone" and corner bass traps. There is a large body of evidence to support these recommendations.

I understand all of that, I just wanted to make sure you weren't *actually* recommending live-end/dead-end which is entirely different from the techniques used to day to pad down first reflections.
post #40 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Again, you're simply falling into the "discredit the messenger" trap instead of addressing the opinion (or simply allowing it as a different POV).

Again, You are an NHT dealer who just cannot help but badmouth the competition. This is supposed to be a support forum.

The OP asked this question ...

Quote:


I currently have Definitive Technology theater system and was thinking of switching to the Klipsch THX Ultra2 packeage and was wondering if anyone has experience with either or both systems. Also, I'm not sure if I should get an additional 2 subs to be a total of 4. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your first response was:

Quote:


I personally thought they were unimpressive, with poor imaging and transparency, especially for such a high price. But I don't typically like Klipsch or horns or anything with with ports or stacked midranges and these fit all the stereotypes of that kind of design. However, yes, they sounded like real theater, but I don't think that is a good goal. There are many speakers that provide much *better* sound than a theater. Most, in fact.

The OP was looking for opinions from people who had experience with either or both systems.

Do you really think he was looking for the opinion of someone who thinks that all ported and/or horn based speaker systems are bad ?

You are an NHT dealer. You don't make that fact known, even though other dealers here do tell us the lines they represent. Unless someone knows who you are, they won't know that about you. You still try to come across as an "expert" giving real advice.

Had you started your first response with something like "I am a dealer who sells speakers which are a totally different design than Klipsch, from a company called NHT. I don't sell Klipsch because ...... (fill in blank)" ..... then you would at least show the ability to be forthcoming about the agenda behind your opinions.

I just don't recall Soundood telling people not to buy NHT because they require more than 10 times the power of an equivalant Klipsch system for the same SPL. In fact, I could be wrong, but I do believe Soundood stays out of NHT threads.

He shows a lot of class.
post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Again, you're simply falling into the "discredit the messenger" trap instead of addressing the opinion (or simply allowing it as a different POV).

I have no problem with people buying Klipsch, but I do think it makes a whole lot of sense to listen a lot first. Everyone thinks their system is "the best" because they chose it.

What specifically don't you like and what specifically do you like about the Klipsch Ultra2 speaker system? I plan on purchasing this system, but others opinions matter to me also.
post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I understand all of that, I just wanted to make sure you weren't *actually* recommending live-end/dead-end which is entirely different from the techniques used to day to pad down first reflections.

If you actually "understood all that" you would realize that it's not "entirely different". I did the LEDE back in 1986 when my room was a 2-channel room. As the room has evolved into an HT with a multi-channel system, I have evolved the acoustic treatments to optimize the HT. Still, there are some of the elements of the LEDE system in place, because they work quite well.

Craig

Edit: Just to be clear, I would not recommend a strict LEDE system for a multi-channel HT.
post #43 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Again, you're simply falling into the "discredit the messenger" trap instead of addressing the opinion (or simply allowing it as a different POV).

It's not about discrediting the messenger, or even the message. It's about making sure people understand the priorities and the agenda of the messenger, so they can put his message into perspective.

It's also about reminding people that all these "messages" are opinions, not facts. You clearly hear differently than I do. I hear differently than a lot of other people on the forum. But then again, so do you, obviously, because there are a lot of people on the forum who like the sound of Klipsch, and find enough value in the speakers to spend their money on them.

Although you seem to have a personal mission to change that, I seriously doubt you'll change the way people hear.

Craig
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Everyone thinks their system is "the best" because they chose it.

Yourself included, I'm sure....
post #45 of 127
I don't think they are the best and I used to own them. They are excellent for movies and I think a big step up from definitive for a movie theater experience.
post #46 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post

Yourself included, I'm sure....

I gave up on self-delusion a *long* time ago.
post #47 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barteaux View Post

What specifically don't you like and what specifically do you like about the Klipsch Ultra2 speaker system? I plan on purchasing this system, but others opinions matter to me also.

I don't like the sound of the treble because of the horn. The overall sound seems like a "box" rather than an open, spacious, realistic sound. I felt detail was lacking compared to other expensive gear. I felt like the speakers couldn't reach out and have a "flow" from one to the other - I was aware of 5 separate boxes, even though they were tonally the same. Bass was just "okay", but the room was very large, so I wouldn't necessarily hold that against them without hearing them in a smaller room. When you look at the individual prices of the Klipsch component parts, you begin to realize just what you can buy for that kind of money and $10K buys a *heckuva* a system. Now, you might listen and say "wow, this is IT", but I'd just say that you should listen to at least 3 other systems that are of similar price and concept before buying. Any $10K system should knock your socks off (though many don't), but some do it better than others.
post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I don't like the sound of the treble because of the horn. The overall sound seems like a "box" rather than an open, spacious, realistic sound. I felt detail was lacking compared to other expensive gear. I felt like the speakers couldn't reach out and have a "flow" from one to the other - I was aware of 5 separate boxes, even though they were tonally the same. Bass was just "okay", but the room was very large, so I wouldn't necessarily hold that against them without hearing them in a smaller room. When you look at the individual prices of the Klipsch component parts, you begin to realize just what you can buy for that kind of money and $10K buys a *heckuva* a system. Now, you might listen and say "wow, this is IT", but I'd just say that you should listen to at least 3 other systems that are of similar price and concept before buying. Any $10K system should knock your socks off (though many don't), but some do it better than others.

John, you forgot... they're colored!

Craig
post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I gave up on self-delusion a *long* time ago.

Why is it that in every Klipsch thread you seem to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution?

I haven't been online in days, and I see a thread mentioning Klipsch, and, big surprise, you're here not helping the OP nor anything except for your own ego.

We all know, you don't like Klipsch for various reasons. We get it, you've had your chance to provide your opinion, so now either add something else worthwhile or go away.

As for my contribution to the thread, I've heard both, and for mainly movie watching, I prefer the Klipsch system. If you like playing movies loud and have a well treated room, I think you'll be happy with them. They sound big, clear, and loud.
post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

... When you look at the individual prices of the Klipsch component parts, you begin to realize just what you can buy for that kind of money and $10K buys a *heckuva* a system...

FWIW, I feel that the Klipsch THX 7.2 HT isn't worth 10K although it is an awesome package. That being said, I was comparing it to my 9.2 reference HT (RF-7's/RF-3's/RS-7's/RB-75's/RC-7/RSW-12/RSW-15) which I paid under $6,100 and I have heard numerous <10K systems that I wouldn't trade my system for including the Klipsch THX package.

I wouldn't recommend anyone purchasing a speaker system without hearing them, but given NIB RF-7's are going for considerably cheaper than I paid for mine on-line, I would make an effort to hear them somewhere. It appears a person could pick up 4 RF-7s and an RC-7 (used) for under $3,000 and have a tremendous array for their main speakers. Heck pick up an additional pair of RF-7's for the rear and you may not even feel compelled to purchase a sub (although, if your budget is 10K you will have several options available with the remaining 6K you have left over ). My 2 cents.
post #51 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoND View Post

Why is it that in every Klipsch thread you seem to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution?

Because *some* forum members aren't confident enough to accept that not everyone will like what they like and start making personal attacks. If people say they don't like my speakers and it has some reasonable basis in reality, I don't mind. In fact, I often way "I can understand that interpretation of the sound, but that's what I like about them". I don't like B&W's but I do understand why some people like them.
post #52 of 127
Stolen from AV123's forum member Buzz3's signature:

Quote:


Famous BigWally quotes:

The fact that Klipsch offers a rig that will make one's house sound like a titty bar for 10K....that's amazing.

Sorry, but it still makes me laugh.
post #53 of 127
Zen makes a very good point that there are other 'blow you away' Klipsch solutions that are cheaper. For instance, start with a pair of used Klipschorns and two pairs of Cornwalls or La Scala and come in between 4 and 5 K. Lots left for a monster sub.
post #54 of 127
If you think the subs are lacking I would like to know what you think aren't. Did you hear better home theater subs in that exact room? I also heard the Rf-7 system and I still think the thx are better for theater. Again we all have our personal taste and know one is right or wrong. We should just give our opinion and why. I gave many examples I like worse and others I like better for a movie experience. Are there better for music, you bet. Besides you can get that system for less than 10K. I bought mine for $4950 for the whole set from my dealer. They were demos and I also recieved the full warranty. Are others going to get the same deal, maybe never, but for movies they do a great job.
post #55 of 127
MK, no, I didn't hear other subs in the same room, hence my caution. HOWEVER, I've traded in a lot of Klipsch subs over the past 12 years and none were terribly good, IMO. Most are kind of one notey and certainly on the slow, blurry side. Now, this sub might be fantastic, but look at the price - $1250 for a single 12" passive subwoofer, $1400 for the $500W amp to run it. Figure two 12" subs for, 22Hz response for $3900. Now imagine what you could do for that kind of money. The NHT stereo U1 system has 500W outboard amps/crossover and *four* 12" subs with an optional 20Hz response for $2300. Acoustic suspension too, and with tighter FR curve. And I am sure you could find a Hsu, SVS, Revel, or other subs that will pound these for less money as well. Or you could pick up a couple of 15" Triads and have change left over for Triad Gold LCRs. Or PSB CHS40 3-ways with a pair of Subsonic 9s (dual 10" each).

So, aside from the fact that I don't like stacked midranges or horns, the value portion is where the system gets questionable, especially with the subs, but even the satellites are way up there. If the system were half the price, I'd still think it was a bit pricey and mass market, but it's not and well into the high-end realm of pricing for basically a PA type of design.
post #56 of 127
I think the subs are great, I bought them for a very good price, They were about the same level as the SVS PB12/plus/2 in spl(klipsch maybe slight edge) and sound quality was pick um. I think they sound great but I have since moved on to other subs that I like much better for alot less than the Klipsch and SVS.
post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

... but I have since moved on to other subs that I like much better for alot less than the Klipsch and SVS.

Please... do share!

Craig
post #58 of 127
I am now using 2 18 inch horn subs with a samson s-2000 amp(685 watts per channel). They hit 100 dbs with 1 watt at 1 meter. I have been through the gammit of horns don't go that low and so on. In my room they are pretty flat down to 22-25 hz. They have very good output down to 10 hz. I did eq them flat to 10 hz and reached 117 db's uncorrected watching WOTW. Without the eq I hit over 125 db's. To me and many others That have heard them think they are faster, more powerful(no brainer), and more detailed. I have a 2300 cubic foot sealed, dedicated HT and for comparisons I used to hit 113-114 db's with the SVS. I have discussed these alot as you would guess. Just look at some sub threads under my name and you will see. My subs are supposed to roll off much earlier but not in my room. I ran that pulse scene at reference levels and I hit 115 db's(uncorrected) and that scene is 16-18 hz.
post #59 of 127
For what it's worth,I was one of the very first people to review the Klipsch U2 system when it came out in mid-2004.I was working for Home Entertainment magazine and got the chance to not only review the system but keep it at my home for a few months.Let me say this,I had a very,very hard time sending it back to Klipsch-It's a GREAT speaker system! I would have purchased the review sample if I could've afforded it.
Yes there are better HT speaker systems out there-but not many.I have had the opportunity to listen to a variety of speaker systems over the years and the Klipsch U2's rank in my personal top5,right up there with Meridian,Aerial,Vienna and Genelec.The Klipsch U2 is one of a very few systems that I would gladly want in my Home Theater any day of the week!
They obviously do full justice to movie soundtracks in the way that all us Home Theaterphiles would come to expect in this day and age.The U2's are indeed dynamic and the subs are intensely powerful-they knocked the clock off the wall in my kitchen during the LOTHR's Return of the King trailer!.But the U2's also do justice to high-quality music recordings as well.Even though they are horn-loaded,they are suprisingly smooth and pleasant to listen to.Trust me on this,you won't be missing anything with this system.One of the most respected audio reviewers Steve Guttenberg,also reviewed this system right after I did and he had nothing but praise.
I would suggest that you really listen to them yourself with some of your favorite material and take it from there.All I can say is your on the right track and I do think you will be impressed.
post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexg75 View Post

For what it's worth,I was one of the very first people to review the Klipsch U2 system when it came out in mid-2004.I was working for Home Entertainment magazine and got the chance to not only review the system but keep it at my home for a few months.Let me say this,I had a very,very hard time sending it back to Klipsch-It's a GREAT speaker system! I would have purchased the review sample if I could've afforded it.
Yes there are better HT speaker systems out there-but not many.I have had the opportunity to listen to a variety of speaker systems over the years and the Klipsch U2's rank in my personal top5,right up there with Meridian,Aerial,Vienna and Genelec.The Klipsch U2 is one of a very few systems that I would gladly want in my Home Theater any day of the week!
They obviously do full justice to movie soundtracks in the way that all us Home Theaterphiles would come to expect in this day and age.The U2's are indeed dynamic and the subs are intensely powerful-they knocked the clock off the wall in my kitchen during the LOTHR's Return of the King trailer!.But the U2's also do justice to high-quality music recordings as well.Even though they are horn-loaded,they are suprisingly smooth and pleasant to listen to.Trust me on this,you won't be missing anything with this system.One of the most respected audio reviewers Steve Guttenberg,also reviewed this system right after I did and he had nothing but praise.
I would suggest that you really listen to them yourself with some of your favorite material and take it from there.All I can say is your on the right track and I do think you will be impressed.

Hey, it was your review (in Home Entertainment Mag) that made me "bite the bullet" and buy this set! Thanks for the great write up. Your evaluation on the music part of this system was spot on, and I listen to a lot of DVD-Audio and SACD with these speakers. As for theater, well, they simply blow me away each time I cue up a great action movie with plentiful sound effects! The subs ROCK, and continue to amaze me with high LFE content movies.
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