Format Battle General Discussion Thread III: Discuss it here! - Page 15  

I agree that there are many different reasons why people support one format or the other.



As messed up as the stats can get when it comes to stand alone Blu-ray players vs all Blu-ray players are you sure that Sony didn't note that distinction in their press release? Also I would point out that the HD DVD side also has a pretty wide definition of what they consider a HD DVD player since I have seen HD DVD player announcements that turned out to be multi-thousand dollar computer systems.



In terms of titles yes, but in terms of major movies it seems to me like Blu-ray has a good amount more. Also considering the delays with several big Warner titles on Blu-ray and Fox being MIA the number of movies that Blu-ray currently has is certainly not as great as it could have been.



True, but that makes little difference to the vast majority of consumers in North America who don't order titles from Europe. In my opinion this is one of the most mentioned advantages of HD DVD but one of the least significant in terms of the format war.



I am, though they are PS2 games. Also in my experience most new game consoles have a bit of drought in terms of good games at first and that should end once we start seeing PS3 games like Lair, Heavenly Sword, FFXIII, and White Knight Story.



I don't think any of the other studios claimed to be neutral in this format war though while giving such a contradictory impression. Also personally I believe Fox, Disney, and Universal when they say that they picked their respective format for certain reasons. I don't things went quite as planned for Fox because of delays with BD+ just as I don't think things went quite as planned with Universal in terms of combo discs. With Disney I think things have gone better which is why we occasionally hear about TL51 from the HD DVD camp even though I think it is somewhere between a dream and a wish in terms of being implemented. Note that I would like to be proven wrong about TL51 but I just don't see it happening.



Similar, but not quite the same. First off the Blu-ray drive can be used for games and though a lot of people mock that idea, usually because they don't like Blu-ray, I personally consider that to be a good thing for PS3 games. Secondly game consoles are traditionally subsidized while I can't even think of one other CE product that has been subsidized the way I believe Toshiba's low cost HD DVD players have been. Logically it makes sense what Toshiba is doing but it certainly isn't something that we normally see in the CE world.



Just to point this out but technically this would apply to both the PS3 and the low cost Toshiba HD DVD players. In my personal opinion it is very likely that both are subsidized.

If you buy a PS3 you are paying more because it has a Blu-ray player as part of the system. What you buy the PS3 for (games, movies or both) is not relevant.

The Blu-ray player in a PS3 is not free. If the PS3 was $600 with a DVD drive then it would sell less. People buying it for Blu-ray playback, obviously, would not have bought it!

Best Buy doing a great incentive deal does not impact on the argument on whether Sony charge for the Blu-ray player in a PS3, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it.

If you buy a PS3, you're paying more because Sony is giving you a Blu-ray player for 'Free'. And, I believe it is very relevant what you buy the PS3 for, as evidenced by several arguments from both sides.

The Best Buy incentive is for Sony TV's only, similar to the Toshiba HDTV + HD DVD promotion. My point was simply that both sides are trying to give away this hardware to increase penetration. Claiming that Toshiba is 'giving away players' as a last hope to stay in the game and then saying that it's okay for Sony to do it with the PS3 because it's a Game Console seems like a silly argument to me. The net of it is, again, they're both 'giving away' the hardware.

To put it another way, why didn't Sony have a DVD-only version and a Blu-ray version of the PS3 and give consumer's the choice as to what they wanted? I know their excuse was that they needed the capacity for games, but that hasn't quite shown up just yet. If there were both options out there, how many PS3's would have sold? I'm willing to bet that if the PS3 was $400 and $600, they would have sold way more units than they did today and wouldn't be nearly as far behind on the console front. Though, on the Blu-ray front, different story.

You left in the incredibly awful (Rotten Tomatoes: 33%) Fantastic Four film, but left out the "so bad it's good" (Rotten Tomatoes:47%) DOA: Dead or Alive? How could you??
DOA is a Weinstein title, and therefore HD DVD exclusive. I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing, but it's probably better for HD DVD than fantastic four would be for BD.

The first vote from the market was the ticket sales for opening weekend, which were (at least studio estimates):

Fantastic Four: $57,400,000
DOA: $232,000

Yes, you read that right, $232k. Theater averages were over $14k for FF and under $500 for DOA. Wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the worst openings ever for a film from one of the top 10 studios.

If you were looking for a film left out that would help HD DVD you probably would have been better off going for Knocked Up.

--Darin

I was at BB/Magnolia this afternoon and I guess they have decided who they are backing. There were five BR player displays (three in BB and two in Magnolia). There were zero HD DVD player displays. They also had eight feet dedicated to BD and only four feet for HD DVD. My guess is that they have a lot better margins for BR players and that's why they are pushing them.

The companies pay for favorable retail placement.

That is why having every major manufacturer support one format is a big deal. They're all spending dollars to promote and advertise the format.

how does one pay more for something that is free

Did you miss the smileys? I'm sure I put them in. I wouldn't use a reasonably popular film (although not to my taste) like Knocked up to make a completely silly statement like that.

Anyway, considering the amount of advertising DOA got (read: none) compared to the fantastic four barrage, it doesn't surprise me that it did pretty dismally at the extremely limited number of screens it's showing on. That's neither here nor there, I was just being silly.

Because it's a Game Console ...

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL

Has anyone been keeping up on this story?

http://ww2.engadgethd.com/2007/06/16...arting-to-rot/

There's a fairly large thread in the Blu-ray Software forum on it, as the link references IIRC...

Anyone else hear about this?

LOS ANGELES Bl0ckbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.

The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Is this for real or are you trying to poke fun here at AVS forum members. PS: Please feel free to read other threads on this forum as they can be Highly informitive on the subject you are posting.

This is true. I heard it announced this morning on CNN. Here is the online version of the piece.

Or you should read the article for yourself.

Obviously I was being sarcastic. If you would have checked the sticky at the top of the HD Software forum you would heve seen that this is big news already.

A little trolling here is OK though, isn't it?

I have seen three posts now with users with less than 8 posts about this story. It's like they have never read anything on this site before.

Someone please argue how these are not viral marketers out in force?

Average in my 6320. And then chill out. We all thought we were doing everyone a favor. After all, it was only announced this morning. And who with a life reads everything on this forum?

Oh yeah, and you might want to learn a new buzz phrase, too, Mr. 213.

No need for the personal attack.

The FACT is that there are numerous posts using almost the exact same wording but by users. No I won't average in your post because you are not one of those users. Too hard to understand Mr. 6320?

And oblique personal attacks are OK?

Similar wording? How many different ways can one say "Blockbuster is favoring BD?"

So even though it is obvious viral marketing you are ok with it as long as it advances your agenda?

These once informative boards are beginning to turn into a vaste wasteland of spin, fanboys, FUD and marketing.

I guess if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Check my sig; neither one are quite ready for me to buy into.

Here's a link to the Blockbuster COO Interview ...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=383736735&play=1

What he is saying is quite a bit different than what is being spun in the media, fwiw ... amazing how this stuff becomes sensationalized and takes off ...

LOL no kidding, I just watched it.

Simple, because Blu-ray can be used for games. Now of course those who are against Blu-ray are unlikely to admit to the benefits of having more capacity for a game but that is a pretty logical explanation. Also I am rather happy that both a Blu-ray drive and a hard drive are mandatory for a PS3. I think those will benefit PS3 games since it will allow for larger games with a hard drive that developers know will always be there.



Yes, I have been keeping up on it in the thread. So far it looks to have only affected a few people and some of the photos that have been posted about it are actually fake. As such though it has been an issue for a few Blu-ray owners for the most part there is also a lot of BS that has been posted about it as well. Personally speaking I get the impression that the HD DVD boiling disc issue was far more widespread issue. Also there is something rather typical in the fact that more HD DVD supporters, who don't own a Blu-ray player, are posting in that thread than Blu-ray owners who have actually had any problem.



Well I have seen such things with supporters for both HD formats when a big news story is released on either HD format. After all most people don't regularly read this forum about the format war but would certainly hear about it if it was mentioned in a major news story. I think many of us who pay close attention to this format war can easily forget that fact.



Well besides the fact that you have absolutely no proof for that where were you when certain HD DVD posters began promoting the anti-Blu-ray website known as hdnowonline? Every single thread made on this forum that has criticized the numerous biases and errors on that website has been closed down by trolling HD DVD supporters. At the same time though HD DVD supporters have been allowed to promote that website. In terms of the truth I don't really see how HD DVD supporters can defend such a website with a clear conscience. As such in my opinion the concern about "viral marketing" from HD DVD supporters rings hollow when such a website may be promoted on this forum but may not be criticized.

But ... the games aren't using the capacity ... and the future seems to be moving towards DLC anyways. Take Warhawk, for example ... online only, no single player, and downloadable. Another *very* popular franchise, SOCOM, will be available this year as well ... but ... again ... no single player, online only, and downloadable.

RFOM was on a Blu-ray disk, but had a campaign shorter than Gears of War on DVD9.

Now, I understand that moving forward, the need for the capacity might be there in years 4, 5, or 6 ... but compression efficiency should increase as the sizes increase, so that renders it moot. Plus, it's not like the hardware is going to get 'better' ... while they can tweak the software, the trend seems to be towards 8-12 hour single player campaigns with replay via online multiplayer. And, it's already been shown that immense and immersive worlds like Oblivion can be done on DVD9. Not to mention I believe that in the future, we're going to see the 'Base Game' on disc and the rest of the levels will be downloadable until eventually everything is just brought down over the wire.

So yes ... Blu-ray can be used for games ... but a shotgun can be used to swat a fly ... it doesn't mean that it's necessary. I think the whole 'We need the space for games' was Sony's way of getting the gamer to 'buy in' to their Trojan Horse strategy. By convincing the gamers that it was needed for them, they don't feel as used in the whole format war. Developer's aren't clamoring for it ... in fact, some of them would have rather had double the RAM in PS3 instead ... and some have publicly stated that they'd rather have a cheaper PS3 without Blu-ray because it wasn't needed.

The future is already here. It is just not evenly distributed. id's new game (with John Carmack's new engine), Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, is debuting this year with 20GB of textures. Stuff all you want and you'll not get that on a DVD.

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=40911

This game will be the first of the next generation games needing the huge capacity if Blu-ray discs.