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Official Westinghouse TX Series ( TX-42F430S, TX-47F430S ) Owner's Thread - Page 202

post #6031 of 6156
Thanks CD, one more question. What temp did you use when you desoldered the caps?
post #6032 of 6156
My previous post identifying the bad cap..."That capacitor should remain a 470uF but the voltage can be higher...the other guy put in a 25V...I'd prefer to stay at 16V but make sure it's one designed for switching power supplies...not general purpose because it gets a lot of pulsing from the LC circuit it's in...I think they're called low ESR caps. Be careful when de-soldering the leads that you don't over heat the PC board...follow my instructions and use a solder sucker as an iron by surrounding the leads and tilting the cap back and forth from one lead to the other until it is loose - then suck out the solder or stick a needle through the hole from the component side so the replacement cap can be inserted. Re-solder the connections using that same iron so it heats it up thoroughly to get solder to surround the lead into the hole. Good luck! Dave"

I use a Radio Shack dual heat 15/30wt bulb type solder sucker on the high setting! Again, ease the cap out by heating one lead, then the other while rocking it up and out of the holes gently one "tilt" at a time. I was determined to find out which component was going bad and it looks like all you other guys verified that the worst of the "bad" caps is that 470uF 16V...what a shame to cause a really good set with lots of features to fail because of a 50 cent part!!!! Mine only lasted 4 years before going bad. Also, I've noticed on some caps on the laptop main boards that I repair that some have a suffix of "A" while others have a suffix of "E" - I assume A means audio since they're in the audio output section of a laptop and the E are in switching power rail circuits so I believe they are the low ESR type! Pretty intuitive but it took me a few looks before I noticed that difference. Thanks to all for sending in your own experiences.
post #6033 of 6156
To squirrellydw:
I put the soldering iron all the way up to 420C.
The hotter, the better. The idea is to melt the solder as fast as possible, before the heat can dissipate through the board and damage other things.
I have had problems when I have kept the soldering iron tip on the board for too long. This can happen if your tip is not hot enough, if the solder melt temp is too high, of if the board is too thick and the heat dissipates sideways before the entire column of solder can melt.
I suggest that first you apply a little liquid flux compound to the old solder, this will make the solder flow better.
Then you should melt a little new solder on to the old solder. That will increase the surface contact area between the iron and the old solder and increase the rate of heat transfer.
As orgwood has stated in his post, you melt one terminal and rock the capacitor a little and then melt the other terminal and rock the other way. Back and forth until it is free.
The last part is to get all to old solder out of the hole so you can slide in the new cap. That is where the solder sucker is used.
Electrolytic caps are polarized, the side stripe indicates the negative terminal. So be sure the stripe is on the correct side when you insert the new cap.
post #6034 of 6156
Fixed, thank you all
post #6035 of 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDGraves View Post

To squirrellydw:
I put the soldering iron all the way up to 420C.
The hotter, the better. The idea is to melt the solder as fast as possible, before the heat can dissipate through the board and damage other things.
I have had problems when I have kept the soldering iron tip on the board for too long. This can happen if your tip is not hot enough, if the solder melt temp is too high, of if the board is too thick and the heat dissipates sideways before the entire column of solder can melt.
I suggest that first you apply a little liquid flux compound to the old solder, this will make the solder flow better.
Then you should melt a little new solder on to the old solder. That will increase the surface contact area between the iron and the old solder and increase the rate of heat transfer.
As orgwood has stated in his post, you melt one terminal and rock the capacitor a little and then melt the other terminal and rock the other way. Back and forth until it is free.
The last part is to get all to old solder out of the hole so you can slide in the new cap. That is where the solder sucker is used.
Electrolytic caps are polarized, the side stripe indicates the negative terminal. So be sure the stripe is on the correct side when you insert the new cap.

I like the idea of a hot tip too but again, left on too long and the pad can burn...the hole in the solder sucker tip allows the lead to be surrounded. I also think that fresh flue & solder especially if it's lead/tin will reduce the melt temperature and I always use that for my repairs.

I also have used a heat gun to remove those hybrid power modules on plasma sets. I do the same on other through-hole or SMTcomponents where you just can't get the solder to let go all at once.

I also don't feel the need to clean out all the solder if I can punch a sewing needle through the hole from the top and get the lead to go in fairly easily but that's my preference! That extra solder just remelts back into the new solder joint which I always flux first. Same with SMT devices which should have some on the pads to start and just allow the chip to float down onto the pads through the melted solder which because of its viscosity, normally pulls the chip into alignment although sometimes I have to nudge it into place.

If you must clean the hole, use gravity to pull the solder down and out of the hole while heating it from the bottom - it's tough to align the tip because you can't see through the board but you can see when the solder has melted while looking at the hole from the top. I've never rigged up a mirror but think that could be helpful when doing this type of repair.
post #6036 of 6156
squirrellydw:

That's it? That's all you're going to say? "Fixed, thank you all"? smile.gif
No details on your foray into the world of soldering? How the set responded after replacing the components?
How many components you replaced? Where you found the replacements?

I guess we'll all have to find something else to do this evening since there's nothing new here...

Seriously, congratulations on your successful repair.

Tim///
post #6037 of 6156
Lol sorry. I replaced the same cap as everyone else, the one in red. Soldering was easy once I got a tool that was hot enough. Thanks again
post #6038 of 6156
ok i read thru most of this thread WOW long thread...... tried and tried to get my set to flash nothing would work... let me start at the beginning about 5 days ago power went out for about 1 minute. i got up later and tried to turn my tv on it wouldnt turn on.... all i had was a orange light on the front. i unplugged the set held the power button about 20 secs plugged it back in still nothing. noticed the orange light would flash blu about a millisecond then goto orange but never would turn on. so then began the search to find out what was wrong with it, found this forum. thus began the epic fail at trying to flash my set.

then since it wouldnt work no matter what i did. i decided it must be the capacitor that was mentioned in a couple of the posts. went to local radio shack couldnt find the right cap. well after many years of building , upgrading and repairing pc's. a thought came to me. all the parts i've aquired over the years.... i went and sure enough i found an old geforce 8400 video card and low and behold guess what cap it had on it....amongst the bundle of 1500uF 6.3v caps there stood my holy grail! a 470uF 16v ... i then began the ardurous task of unsoldering it out of the video card and then soldering into my mainboard on the TV. after a few burns and cussing. the cap was installed and the TV was all reassembled. put her back up on the wall hooked all the cables up plugged in the power cord. saw the brief flash of blue and the orange light. i almost punched it......then a small flicker and the giant white W on the screen then black .... i pushed the power button and the angels sang!!! and the picture came on.

all i wanted to do was to register here and give a humungous THANK YOU! to all the people who have figured this stuff out and shared thier trials and errors and knowledge at figuring this stuff out. i have been unemployed for about 3 months now money is super tight right now there is no way i could afford to buy a new set right now. Thank You. but as of right now she is working like brand new.

and a special thank you to orgwood for bringing up the cap problem. that was definately what the problem was.
post #6039 of 6156
"""holy grail! a 470uF 16v ... i then began the ardurous task of unsoldering it out of the video card and then soldering into my mainboard on the TV. after a few burns and cussing. the cap was installed and the TV was all reassembled. put her back up on the wall hooked all the cables up plugged in the power cord. saw the brief flash of blue and the orange light. i almost punched it......then a small flicker and the giant white W on the screen then black .... i pushed the power button and the angels sang!!! and the picture came on.

all i wanted to do was to register here and give a humungous THANK YOU! to all the people who have figured this stuff out and shared thier trials and errors and knowledge at figuring this stuff out. i have been unemployed for about 3 months now money is super tight right now there is no way i could afford to buy a new set right now. Thank You. but as of right now she is working like brand new.

and a special thank you to orgwood for bringing up the cap problem. that was definately what the problem was."""

It is sweet victory when someone is so appreciative by the sharing of knowledge and then rewarded by success when the manufacturer or other sellers of these boards won't reveal the fix. I have found that the hardest problems often have the simplest solutions IF people will only search for them and then share them. If anyone knows why that cap fails, please share your knowledge - is it the wrong cap in that type of circuit? Too low of a voltage?

Other simple fixes I've "discovered" are -

The Wii won't show anything on the screen - loose WiFi module probably caused by dropping the system box causes the system to halt during boot because that module isn't recognized - why can't it just say that on the screen!!!

HP X1000/nx7010/zt3000 has power port problems because of poor soldering during manufacturing, uses swaged center power pin instead of soldered - also has main power switch problem because it gets "dirty" and needs contact cleaner put in it, and video card develops intermittent solder joints because of heat buildup by restriction of air flow.

Thanks for the gracious acknowledgement, Dave Colglazier - orgwood at iaxs dot net or on eBay as orgwood user ID
post #6040 of 6156
To orgwood:

"If anyone knows why that cap fails, please share your knowledge - is it the wrong cap in that type of circuit? Too low of a voltage?"

The capacitor failed because it developed an abnormally high ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance).
Every electrolytic capacitor has a small amount of series resistance. Normally this is too small to matter. How ever, over time ESR will increase as the dielectric between the plates dries out.
The dielectric will dry out faster with high temperatures and high ripple current. Poor quality capacitors will fail more quickly.
This is just a poor quality capacitor that was exposed to a high ripple current and dried out.
These capacitors look normal and will show a good capacitance with a standard capacitance meter. I was only able to see the problem with an ESR meter.
post #6041 of 6156


I purchased a broken Westinghouse TX-47F430S which I fixed by replacing that troublesome 470 uF capacitor.
I now have this great TV but unfortunately it did not come with the base. The prior owner had mounted the TV on a wall and discarded the base.
I really do not want to screw this thing to a wall. I would like to get the original base and place it on a table.
I have searched the Net but I can not find any for sale. I have not been able to determine what the part number is.
There are some bases for sale for the model TX-42F430S, and the part number is 60.3YB02.002.
I do not know if the base for the 42" and the 47" are interchangeable.

My questions are:
1. Is the base for the TX-47F430S and the TX-42F430S the same (interchangeable)?
2. Could somebody please look at the base of a TX-47F430S and tell me the part number (hopefully it is 60.3YB02.002)?
3. Does anybody have a TX-47F430S base they would like to sell?
Edited by CDGraves - 6/16/13 at 1:40pm
post #6042 of 6156
Thanks for the answer. I know that 50-60HZ filter caps have been around as long as AC was converted to DC in tube circuits and such and audio coupling caps seldom fail even though they pass some pretty high voltages over the audio frequency range. Through my electronics theory knowledge I can understand switching supplies and pulse width modulation...my gut says that since low freq filtering through the audio range is mostly sine wave signals, the switching circuits are largely square wave and that causes the destruction of the dielectric probably because of the steep transitions and higher freqs involved...does this cause an internal heat build up that dries out the cap from the inside out rather than from the outside in? What do cap manufacturers do to make low ESR caps vs general purpose other than possibly use a different dielectric that is more immune from the heat? Will low ESR caps function properly in general purpose applications?

As to your question about the bases for both the 42" and the 47", please measure the spread between the uprights and post it here. I'll measure my spread and see if it is the same. I really doubt that they made a different base for a 5" diagonal difference that would be less than 2.5" on both sides of the base. Dave
post #6043 of 6156


OK just to add to this, had the same issue with solid amber standby light with TV not turning on. Found this thread, and replaced the capacitor that was mentioned previously. TC51 on main board (470uF 16V) out of spec and high ESR. Cap visually looked OK. Replaced with Panasonic EEU-FR1E471LB (470uF 25V). TV came on immediately.

No firmware update necessary in my case.
post #6044 of 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by orgwood View Post

Got my caps in and found the time to start re-capping the signal/main board yesterday. I started with one 100uF 85 C cap up near the power connector but found that not to be the problem..remember I'm leaving in the new caps so this could be a progressive repair. I then focused the heat down towards the middle of the board on the right side opposite the heat sink and intended to replace them in groups of identical values where the large FETs are...2 - 47uF @ 50V, then 1 - 1000uF @ 6.3V and I thought I could tell that the set was responding to less heat. I finally replaced a single 470 uF @ 16V that is on top of the 150 inductor before I had to replace the 3 - 220 uF @ 16V down in the FET area and lo and behold, the set began working properly again. I have been doing my repairs while this TV is in my garage that I keep around 40 F for our very long winter this year so I'm pretty confident that this fixed my main board. I was getting pretty worried that I had a semiconductor intermittentcy but am confident that this was just a bad cap issue where those FET inductor switching supplies just wear down/out the caps over time ESR surges or something like that. I'll put it back together soon and get back here if I find out anymore that changes this repair.cool.gif

Hello guys,

I have this same 42 inch set with the solid orange problem. I can see the 47uf cap you replaced. Should I try plugging the tv in and heating that cap to see if it will turn on or, just replace it? Should I order other caps while I'm at it or, have we determined that this one is usually the culprit? Thanks in advance for any help.

It would be great if you could link to a good high quality cap to use for this. I see the part number Kevin used but, it's 20% tol. which I saw Dave say not to use.
Edited by 12voltguys - 6/10/13 at 10:01am
post #6045 of 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12voltguys View Post

Hello guys,

I have this same 42 inch set with the solid orange problem. I can see the 47uf cap you replaced. Should I try plugging the tv in and heating that cap to see if it will turn on or, just replace it? Should I order other caps while I'm at it or, have we determined that this one is usually the culprit? Thanks in advance for any help.

It would be great if you could link to a good high quality cap to use for this. I see the part number Kevin used but, it's 20% tol. which I saw Dave say not to use.

You can use a 20% cap just to try and it should work but make sure it's 470uF NOT 47uF - the heating of the existing cap with a hair dryer would give you a better idea that the cap is the problem. Everyone seems to confirm that this is the problem - don't know why updating firmware would make some work unless those were corrupted by this power rail getting "fuzzy" during a brown-out like some reported having prior to their set's failure. My set is still working just fine and my son's PS3 is even using one of the HDMI ports with no problems.
post #6046 of 6156
That was a typo on the 47 uf. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I don't want a cap just to try so I may as well go ahead and find one with 10%. I do see a link on the previous page to 10 of them at Amazon. Comes to $10 with shipping. I suppose most of the places like mouser and digikey proably have a minimum order anyway. Glad to hear your set is still serving you well.
post #6047 of 6156
To orgwood:
I appreciate the help. I assume you have a TX-42F430S. The dimensions of the holes for the posts is 35 mm x 29 mm. The post holes are 258 mm apart, as measured from inner edge of one hole to the inner edge of the other hole.
As to sine waves vs square wave. Fourier analysis shows us that a square wave is actually a summation of an infinite series of sine waves at odd integer harmonics. So the effective frequency is actually much higher than the base frequency. Since ESR rises with increasing frequency, a square wave will cause more heating than a sine wave at the same frequency. I apologize for being such a nerd.
As to why some caps have lower ESR or last longer than others. I am not an expert in capacitance manufacture, but I imagine the chemistry of the dielectric and tightness of the seals has a lot to do with it.

To 12voltguys:
The only way to know for sure if the cap is bad is to measure it with an ESR meter. I realize most people do not have one, and you would have to invest about $100 to get a cheap one. Since this cap fails so often, I would suggest just replacing it empirically. Any place like Mouser or Digikey or Newark will charge a hefty minimum order fee for your 50 cent cap. You could try Radio Shack to see if they have something close. It is generally safe to go to higher capacitance or voltage values if you have to. Do not go lower. Since this part appears to be so critical, going up a higher capacitance value like 820 uF or 1000 uF could be smart. Increasing the voltage will not help (but will not hurt either). Make sure the cap is rated for temps of at least 105 C. Do not get a cheap 85 C cap. A tolerance of 20% should be fine since this is not a tuned circuit. If you can not find a suitable cap at Radio Shack, send me your mailing address and I will drop one in an envelope and mail it to you. I have a bunch of them.
post #6048 of 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDGraves View Post

To orgwood:
I appreciate the help. I assume you have a TX-42F430S. The dimensions of the holes for the posts is 35 mm x 29 mm. The post holes are 258 mm apart, as measured from inner edge of one hole to the inner edge of the other hole.
As to sine waves vs square wave. Fourier analysis shows us that a square wave is actually a summation of an infinite series of sine waves at odd integer harmonics. So the effective frequency is actually much higher than the base frequency. Since ESR rises with increasing frequency, a square wave will cause more heating than a sine wave at the same frequency. I apologize for being such a nerd.
As to why some caps have lower ESR or last longer than others. I am not an expert in capacitance manufacture, but I imagine the chemistry of the dielectric and tightness of the seals has a lot to do with it.

To 12voltguys:
The only way to know for sure if the cap is bad is to measure it with an ESR meter. I realize most people do not have one, and you would have to invest about $100 to get a cheap one. Since this cap fails so often, I would suggest just replacing it empirically. Any place like Mouser or Digikey or Newark will charge a hefty minimum order fee for your 50 cent cap. You could try Radio Shack to see if they have something close. It is generally safe to go to higher capacitance or voltage values if you have to. Do not go lower. Since this part appears to be so critical, going up a higher capacitance value like 820 uF or 1000 uF could be smart. Increasing the voltage will not help (but will not hurt either). Make sure the cap is rated for temps of at least 105 C. Do not get a cheap 85 C cap. A tolerance of 20% should be fine since this is not a tuned circuit. If you can not find a suitable cap at Radio Shack, send me your mailing address and I will drop one in an envelope and mail it to you. I have a bunch of them.

I assumed this is an LC switching power circuit so I suspect a higher capacitance might be inadvisable...not certain but my design background does not include switching supplies so I am probably in error. I always assumed that the LC component was matched for the particular FET used in these types of power circuits.

I will try to get out my "mm" ruler to get you some measurements if nobody else beats me to it!smile.gif Dave
post #6049 of 6156
I appreciate the help. I assume you have a TX-42F430S. The dimensions of the holes for the posts is 35 mm x 29 mm. The post holes are 258 mm apart, as measured from inner edge of one hole to the inner edge of the other hole.

I am not sure this will help because I cannot get to the back of my set easily now -

I measure approximately 27 cm from post to post and there are 3 holes up each post - ~17cm off the mounting surface to the first hole, then ~9cm then ~20cm

Sorry I am not more exact but I hesitate to take the set off the stand to be more exact. Dave
post #6050 of 6156
To orgwood:

Your measurements seem very different than mine.
Are we talking about the same thing?
There are only 4 holes (2 on each side) in the back of my TX-47F430S with which to mount it to a stand.

I have photographed and measured the distances of the mounting screws.
Distance from the bottom of the set to the lower screws is 108 mm. (4-1/4 inch)
Distance from the lower screws to the upper screws is 92 mm. (3-5/8 Inch)
Distance from the left screws to the right screws is 292 mm. (11-1/2 inch)
Since I do not have a stand, I can not determine distances related to it.
I have included a photo with measurements.
I also attached a photo of the bottom of the TV with measurement to my earlier post.
If you could compare my photo and measurements to yours, I would greatly appreciate it.

post #6051 of 6156
Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.1.1.M2b

I agree that the dimensions seem very different between these 2 models - I looked around the web too and didn't find any stands for the 47". The dimension that concerns me the most is the distance between the posts. If my approximate measurement is somewhat accurate, then there is a difference of about 2cm...I'll have another go at it. The 3 hole scheme I'm referring to could be just another case mounting hole on top of the 2 lower ones since the stands I've seen for the 42" only have 2 holes and the 92mm and my 9cm are so close and the ~17cm off the mounting surface could be reconciled with height of the stand - again I'll try to be more specific. If someone has a 42" not mounted, they could measure these more easily than I can since mine is almost embedded in a wall cavity. I can only move it out a few inches to get a look at the mounting scheme. Sorry!
post #6052 of 6156
I am a new AVS forum member. I started my account inorder to thank EVERYONE that has come here and posted helpful updates on their Westinghouse TVs. THANK YOU!!!!!

I purchased an "as-is" Westinghouse TX42F430S for $30 from Goodwill a few weeks back. It was stuck in standby mode, with only an amber light on the front and two green LEDs on the back. After reading through nearly every page of this forum, I found that there are two things that could be causing the issue: the firmware needs to be updated, or a certain capacitor needs to be replaced. I tried the firmware update with 4 different USB drives to no avail. I was now forced to try and replace the 470 uF capacitor that seems to be causing everyone else problems. I am new to the world of replacing electrical components, but I trust my hand skills enough to try it out. I search around the internet for a "470 uF 16V low ESR" capacitor and decided to purchase the following part from Mouser Electronics based in the DFW area. Since this forum doesn't feature many links to appropriate replacement parts, I decided to post one here.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UPW1C471MPD6TD/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiNUNNXGTdzPedL3oyoyUZVTeTn7qTQhkcsz%252b1ulT2gog%3d%3d

This is a high quality part that should work for anyone else wishing to fix their Westinghouse TX model. The shipping cost was about 10 times more then the part, so I decided to grab a new soldering iron while I was at it.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/SP23LK/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui2jEDN%252b%252bSWgI4unSeLYTOGgpFw0TKx%2fvM%3d

I used a 25W Weller soldering iron to remove and install the new part. 25W seems to a pretty general power and should help prevent newbies from roasting their board, while still being hot enough to get you in and out quickly. I just used the sample solder that came with the iron. Not the best stuff in the world, but it was convenient. If you need a refresher course in soldering, like I did, check out these links.

http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/desolder.htm
http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm

After reinstalling the motherboard, I plugged the TV in (fingers crossed) and the set came right on! I was pretty happy to say the least. I can now replace my ancient 24" Sony Trinitron CRT.

My only ISSUE now is that when I use the RCA Audio Out to my stereo, I only get the left channel. I suppose that my problem may be the right channel of the S-Video input. Yes, I am guilty of plugging in my SNES to test the TV. Anyone out there have this problem? Westinghouse obviously uses crappy components, I wonder if any of the capacitors in the audio section of the board have gone bad. How can I check the ESR values of the current capacitors? I have a cheap analog multimeter, but I wasn't really understanding the resistance readings I was getting. I dont really want to take this thing apart again, but maybe Ill have to. Thoughts?

Additionally, I do not have the remote for this TV. Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced universal remote that would work for me? Doesn't need to be fancy, just functional and cheap.
post #6053 of 6156
Congratulations nwj82. A good 42 inch LCD for $30 + 1 capacitor. Outstanding!

As far a measuring the ESR. Why bother. You have replaced the capacitor and fixed the problem. You have therefore proven the capacitor was bad.
But if you want to proceed, please note: You can not test ESR with an ordinary multimeter. You need an ESR meter. This tests resistance at frequency. I suppose it should be called impedance rather than resistance. I use the Atlas ESR70 from Peak.
http://www.amazon.com/Peak-Electronic-Design-Ltd-esr70/dp/B005NIBEYU
I bought mine for about $100 a few years ago. It was worth it for me since I do a lot of trouble shooting.

As for that 470 uF capacitor. It seems everybody is having the same cap fail. That points to a manufacturing flaw. Probably a bad run of that particular cap. In my case the ESR measured over 11 ohms. That is extremely high. Normal value should be under 0.1 Ohms. At 11 ohms, the capacitor was acting more as a resistor than a capacitor. I do not think you have anything to gain from testing the ESR of the new cap either. The new ones always test good. It has been my experience that the replacement caps are better quality than the originals and do not fail again.
I checked the ESR on the other caps. There are some 220 uF caps that were between 0.7 and 1.0 ohms. Out of spec, but not terrible. All the others were good.

Need a remote control? The TX-42F430S and TX-47F430S use the same remote. There are a lot of them for sale on ebay for under $20. That will be better than any universal remote.

I would like to request a favor from you. I am trying to determine if the base for the TX-42F430S and TX-47F430S are interchangeable. Would you please look at my previous post and compare the measurements of the mounting screws on my TX-47F430S to your TX-42F430S and let me know if they are the same?
Edited by CDGraves - 6/21/13 at 8:31pm
post #6054 of 6156
Guys, I got a new 470uf cap however, I can't get the solder to melt on the PCB. I was holding the old cap with pliers and trying to rock it off but, all that happened is the body of the cap ended up coming off leaving it's full legs. I'm guessing my soldering iron isn't up to the task but, nwj82 just got it done with a 25 watt iron. I'm using a 45 watter. This one to be specific.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-soldering-iron-45-watt/p-00954042000P?PDP_REDIRECT=false&s_tnt=39869:4:0

Any suggestions? confused.gif
Edited by 12voltguys - 6/22/13 at 7:48am
post #6055 of 6156
Another TX-42F430S fixed by replacing the 470uf cap, thanks all! To try and give back a bit I'll tell my story for any who care to read it.

The trouble started one night when the screen went crazy and showed what looked like a messed up version of the menu on the screen. Like I'd done many times before I pulled the power cord from the TV and waited a few seconds after the power light on the front went out before plugging it back on. This time the screen never came on and the LED on the front stayed orange instead of turning blue. I checked online to see if there was anything I could do and I found my way to this thread.

The first thing I tried was the firmware replacement. I'm not sure if it ever took, but I was at least able to get the USB drive to light up a couple times by following these steps:
  1. plug in the power
  2. press the power button once
  3. hold the power button again for 15 seconds (I'm assuming this triggered a reset of some sort
  4. wait a few seconds and watch the drive like up a few times
This never seemed to have any impact with any of the firmware versions posted here, even when I left it sitting for a long time before restarting. This left more complicated solutions which I wasn't comfortable tackling on my own, so I called a local TV repair shop. The repairman said he thought it was the power supply and would come out the next morning. Still suspecting the capacitor, I decided to try out the blow dryer capacitor test before he showed up. I tried pointing the blow dryer at the capacitor shown in the pictures from this thread from about 6 inches away and plugged it in with a video source plugged into the HDMI 1 port, but nothing happened. I'm not sure if I didn't get it hot enough, but I was worried I'd fry the electronics if that wasn't the problem so I gave up.

When the repairman showed up he checked the power source and said it was perfect. He was surprised to learn that the set was about 7 years old. He said there wasn't much else he could do beyond replacing the motherboard, which would have been too expensive, so I asked him if he could try replacing the capacitor discussed on here. He said he had time and I figured I had nothing to loose so we proceeded. He tried touching the capacitor I pointed out and said it was hot, which he said was a sign it had gone bad. He said sometimes they'll bulge too when they go bad, but that they might do neither if they're bad. He checked some of the other capacitors too (mentioned in other posts) but said they all felt fine. I believe he replaced it with a 25V or 35V, since I told him people recommended increasing the voltage to avoid it failing again. It took him a couple minutes, but once he was done we plugged it up and within a few seconds we could see a white glow through the back (it was set facing down on a bed). We put it all back together again and plugged up the video source and sure enough it worked like a charm.

The TV's been going strong for the last week, as if nothing ever happened. It ended up costing me $150 (maybe a bit high for some, but in LA I figured it was fair), but saved me much more, and it looks like the TV should keep on going strong.

On a bit of an aside, the repairman said he'd be in the business for 30 years and that he wouldn't be surprised if it was his last year with how the market was moving. I guess cheaper TVs with expensive circuit boards which people don't see as economical to replace have been taking over and making it harder to keep a repair business going. I know many people here are just fixing it themselves, but I appreciate the information in this thread making it possible for me to support the dying art of TV repair. Thanks!
post #6056 of 6156
Hi guys,
I just picked up the 47" and "unbricked" it with the awesome custom firmware file. My question is that now that I got it working, im noticing a strange discoloration around the outer area of the LCD. Almost looks like what happens to paper if you wet the edges and let it dry. Has anyone come across this before? Is there a fix for it?
Edited by RonAlam - 7/7/13 at 5:54am
post #6057 of 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12voltguys View Post

Guys, I got a new 470uf cap however, I can't get the solder to melt on the PCB. I was holding the old cap with pliers and trying to rock it off but, all that happened is the body of the cap ended up coming off leaving it's full legs. I'm guessing my soldering iron isn't up to the task but, nwj82 just got it done with a 25 watt iron. I'm using a 45 watter. This one to be specific.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-soldering-iron-45-watt/p-00954042000P?PDP_REDIRECT=false&s_tnt=39869:4:0

Any suggestions? confused.gif

I finally used my Sears 100 watt soldering gun to get it hot enough. It still looked like the solder barely melted but, it got the job done. I got the legs of the old cap out. I then soldered in a new cap and put it back together. Boom! The TV turned on and is working fine. I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. This working TV is alot better than a big door stop.

You might find this information particularly helpful. Digikey no longer has a minimum order. For a real small order they will ship via USPS first class mail. This ends up very cheap. I ordered 2 of the 470uf caps and 4 of the 220uf another posted mentioned that he replaced (just in case) and the whole order was a little over $8. Shipping to IL was $2.41 The only cap I replaced was the same 470uf that everyone else replaced.

Here is the cap that I used

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=493-3019+ND


CD Graves: I just measured the mounting holes relative to your picture with my set and the measurements look the same to me. I do believe the stands are interchangeable.
post #6058 of 6156
"I asked him if he could try replacing the capacitor discussed on here. He said he had time and I figured I had nothing to loose so we proceeded. He tried touching the capacitor I pointed out and said it was hot, which he said was a sign it had gone bad. "

It looks like your cap went shorted and that the LC switching circuit was dumping its power into its resistance causing it to become hot. Therefore, the hair dryer trick wouldn't work in your case. I think when the cap dries out somewhat, it becomes out of spec on the low end and heating it up with the hair dryer brings it's capacitance up to a level where the power switching circuit starts working again until it cools off.

One person here has already shown that just soldering onto the remaining leads when the bad cap is removed can be an effective repair although not as "pretty" as a full replacement....so I'd just do what you're comfortable with to make your set work.

I'm glad this has helped so many people get their sets working again. I really like the quality picture and inputs these have so I intend to keep mine going as long as possible.

Another symptom I remember mine having was as the set took longer and longer to come on with more and more reset, the sound would go "goofy" into a slow motion type voice and fall several seconds behind the picture especially when we had a bad signal that caused the picture to break up or "pixilate" badly! Finally it just got to the point where the picture froze and then the set wouldn't come on anymore. Now that the cap has been replaced, that is not happening anymore! Just thought I mention it so anyone else having that symptom might recognize their cap is failing and get it replaced before the inevitable.
post #6059 of 6156
To 12voltguys:
" I just measured the mounting holes relative to your picture with my set and the measurements look the same to me. I do believe the stands are interchangeable."

Based on your reply 12voltsguys, I purchased base for a TX-42F430S on ebay.
I am happy to report that it is a perfect fit. My TX-47F430S finally has a stand.
So if anyone wants to know, the base for the TX-42F430S and TX-47F430S are inter-changeable.


To AndroidDev123:
"He tried touching the capacitor I pointed out and said it was hot, which he said was a sign it had gone bad."

That is true, if the ESR of a capacitor increases, it will get hotter.
Ohms law says E = I x R. Another way to express it is P = I square x R. So as R increases, Power (heat) increases. It is a little more complicated for AC current and Impedance, but you get the idea.
I repaired a power supply once where the ESR of one of the caps had gone up. That cap got so hot, the paint peeled off of it.

"On a bit of an aside, the repairman said he'd be in the business for 30 years and that he wouldn't be surprised if it was his last year with how the market was moving"

When I was a teenager, TVs had vacuum tubes. TVs were very expensive and unreliable and you could make a good living repairing them. There were TV repair shops everywhere. Over the last 4 decades, the purchase price of a new TV has dropped dramatically and the parts prices have increased, It has become uneconomic to repair these things. TV repair shops have become a rarity.


To orgwood:
"Another symptom I remember mine having was as the set took longer and longer to come on with more and more reset"

That is typical of a problem caused by a bad capacitor. It starts with an occasional fail. That fail gets more frequent over time, until it just quits altogether.
When electrolytic caps go bad, they do so slowly over time. The voltage it is supposed to be holding slowly drops as the cap deteriorates. It eventually drops to a threshold voltage and it starts failing. The ESR will be improved slightly by heating the capacitor, and that may be enough to get it over that threshold value. Hence the heat gun trick. But even that will stop working as the cap deteriorated further.


To RonAlam:
"im noticing a strange discoloration around the outer are of the LCD. Almost looks like what happens to paper if you wet the edges and let it dry."

That means your TV has had many thousands of hours of use before you got it.
Your LCD TV is illuminated with fluorescent lamps. Just like the ones in you kitchen or where ever. Except that these are smaller and very thin. Like all florescent lamps, they have a limited life span. As they age, the ends turn black. Because of this, the edges of the screen will appear to be a little darker than the rest of the screen. It gives it that "old paper" look.
post #6060 of 6156
@CDgraves, it looks lighter, not so much darker, like it has a stain.
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