"Conditional Access" - Page 2

When will Expanded Hybrid mode take place?

Mike... sorry I didn't respond very fast... been on vacation with no internet access.

Conditional access sounds pretty good for background music and reading for the blind.

My simple point about background music is simply that most places already have background music situation under control already. There's satellite service called Musak (http://music.muzak.com/), which offers a boat load of 100% commercial/DJ/interruption free, original artist channels. Honestly, that's pretty hard to beat.

As for "narrowcasting", I think it's a good idea, but I'm skeptical of it's actual market. Five years ago, I would have siad, "YEAAAAAAAA." Totally great idea" but Podcasting has really filled that niche. There's a podcast out there for just about every conceivable hobby, interest, political view and music genre.

On the radio, there are two types of talk programming:
1)Know it all conservative muckrakers (with a few exceptions)
2)Liberal elitists with viewpoints I don't agree (who bore me to death)

....and they almost talk about politics. As if there were nothing else in life worth discussing.

I dont have a problem with background music for places etc. Just as long as HD-1-2-3 is free I dont care about all the other stuff I got just about all the formats I need now with HD.

That's nice to know Mike. I feel better about it not affecting the quality of the HD1, HD2 feeds now.

But then again, a next logical question to ask is why not allocate all that extra bandwidth to the first main HD1 feeds to get even better quality audio capability. Then HD radio can shine and brag over satelite without question for audio quality improvement. If for some reason the "pay per listen" trials are not successful, I hope that they will consider giving that full bandwidth to the main HD channels for closer to CD quality sound!

Wasnt HD 1-2-3 channels expose to be free? I dont care about the rest I acually have enough with analog, but digital sounds so much better.

Just if they should do this, what will my radio do? Will it try to tune to the HD-3 channel or will it just tune into the HD-1-2? or will it tell me to pay to recieve that channel?

My guess is that, just as most FM stations never bothered with SCA, most stations will consider "conditional access" to be too much trouble to bother with. I'd wager that it'll be a niche that will survive, but never become very large. I feel NO apprehension about buying now, and frankly have little interest in conditional access. IF it ever comes to my area, they'll have to offer something I can't get from another subscription service, like XM (which I've subscribed to for over five years).

HD is a welcome addition, offering better quality AND greater variety for free. The benefits are obvious (to me). "Conditional access" would likely be mostly for limited, niche markets.

I have another question about this, lets say I do decide on paying for the more channels, if they do this. Will I still be able to DX my favorit HD channel or will they block it from me and only make it in my local market HD-1-2-3 channels and above?

"Conditional access" has absolutely nothing to do with blocking dx reception! If it did, HD would be pretty useless in a car, now wouldn't it?

Excellent, then. Bring on whatever services they want to add, especially if it means the HD2 channels will remain commercial-free.

Yes, this agreement sounds good. What we haven't agreed on yet, though, is what the **** stands for.

The FCC just posted (5-31-07) a comprehensive document on HD radio. See http://fcc.gov/mb and open the Order. Of particular interest to this thread are references to ancillary subscription services at the bottom of page 19 continued on page 20 and on page 45.

Although not on topic for this thread, page 37 denotes approval of nighttime AM HD operations, which I recollect was the subject of an earlier thread.

Thanks for the info. However, the url link you posted did not work for me using IE7 on my Windows Vista machine. It should be http://www.fcc.gov/mb

After a quick read of this document, here is what I understand from it (my summary of the pertinent concerns we have discussed in this thread only)

The radio stations are allowed total freedom (within FCC DAB rules) of what and how they want to use the HD Radio channels as long as they provide one FREE main HD1 channel that is equal or better in audio quality to their main analog broadcast and also that it be the same content (simulcast) as their analog content. They are free to choose to use the full 96kbs HD bandwidth for a single high quality audio free broadcast HD1 channel or they can choose to multicast by dividing up that available HD bandwidth to broadcast lower bit rate (read lower audio quality) subchannels. They are free to decide what format, content, they think is the best and most successful for their segment of interests and service to consumers. They are free to change and experiment (at this time) with those subchannels. The radio stations themselves will decide on charging for paid subscription services or FREE service. The FCC will stay out of those decisions leaving it to each individual station and market to decide on what is the best model.

As for AM radio night time HD broadcasts (Full time), it is approved and allowed now with no need for the radio stations to re-apply for permission to do so. From what I understand, all AM stations can just start broadcasting FULL Time now. I don't know why here in NYC, the AM stations still stop broadcasting in HD after about 07:30pm to 08:00pm. They must not be keeping up with the new rules and regulations readings! I will check tonight to see if AM HD radio still stops at night or if any AM station (in the NYC area) has adopted the new ruling.

Now, my only concern is the mention or implication in this FCC documentation that there is only 96kbits for the total HD channel bandwidth and that stations can choose to use (as in take away, reduce) any amount of that 96kbits to reallocate some kbits to their multicast HD2, HD3, etc. channels for lower audio quality services. There is no mention anywhere in the doc that gave me the impression that there is 150kbits total bandwidth for HD broadcast signals... (I have not read up on IBOC technical specs at all and am too lazy to go that deep in research right now, so I don't know for sure if there will be 150kbits or is it just 96kbits tops for audio quality and sharing more bits to subchannels).

In a nutshell, though, FCC seems to be fairly open minded to how FREE HD and pay for listen terrestrial radio will pan out and develop. It will be up to the stations and the listeners (us) to decide and vote in dollars spent (or dollars made) ultimately.

I just got back from an HD training class at Harris and here's what I picked up on:

Those new rules allowing night-time HD on AM will come into effect 30 days after they are posted in the federal register.

As for the 96kpbs max available bitrate, FM IBOC has several modes of operation that are allowed. MP1 is the basic mode that allows for 96kpbs. Additional modes (MP2, MP3, and MP11) each allow for additional data by adding more secondary carriers. Digital carriers in MP1 mode all exist between 129 and 199khz above and below the carrier. MP2 and above add more carriers between 129 and 100khz of the analog carrier. These higher data modes can impact the analog signal depending on the presence of SCAs. We were told that MP2 and MP3 modes can be turned on "today" at the stations discretion. MP11 is still experimental. I just pulled out my training material to verify that digital carrier position stated above. Sadly, I can't find anything in my material that states what the new data rates are but I vaguely remember either MP2 or MP3 being around 124kpbs.

You are correct that only HD1 or MPS must be subscription free, same as analog, and at the same or higher quality. All subs (even HD2) are not subject to that rule. The references above that HD2 must remain "in the clear" don't jive with what we were told by ibiquity directly. But that confusion probably comes from the existance of the HD Alliance. The Alliance is a group of major station owners that have committed to an HD Radio rollout schedule and I believe they include plans for HD2 service as part of that commitment.

One of the presentations was by NDS, the company that is providing the conditional access service. Most of us were stuck in the "pay radio" mindset as well, but the NDS spokesmen had some pretty good info that I hadn't been thinking about. Sure, this will allow pay services, but there is also speculation that "opt-in" programming could provide shelter from the FCC indecency rules. Imagine formats that have never been offered on radio, such as comedy, being carried as and HD2 or HD3. They could still be free, advertiser supported programs. By forcing the listener to willingly subscribe to the programming, indecency rules may not apply. Of course this is all still speculation, since it hasn't even become feasable yet, let alone ruled on by the commission.

Another key point made by NDS is that none of the existing radios have the necessary provisioning hardware installed. Their encryption hardware is just being released to manufacturers and is expected to show up in new radios in the third quarter of this year.

They claim there will be no firmware or software upgrades to fix conditional access on existing radios. Take a hypothetical HD station broadcasting a conditional access stream on HD3. If you have a new radio with the correct hardware, when you tune that station it will display on screen that a subscription is necessary and provide your radios unique "key" for registration. You will then call the service provider and have your radio authorized. If it's a pay service, you pay, if it's simply opt-in, you just provide your radio "key." If you have an older radio that lacks the correct hardware, you won't even know that HD3 exists. Your tuner won't acknowledge that the channel exists.

MP11?... The Ibiquity "white paper" defines primary modes MP1 to MP7 and secondary modes MS1 to MS4:

http://www.ibiquity.com/i/pdfs/Waveforms_FM.pdf

Are they now just lumping them all together now as MP1 to MP11?

I just took a quick look at the Ibiquity paper at the link just provided by jr_tech pointing to http://www.ibiquity.com/i/pdfs/Waveforms_FM.pdf
and you are right about the bit rate being around 124kbps. Looking at their tables and adding up the bit rates allocated to each channel/partition I got just about 124 to 125kbps total in the allocated sideband sections or partitions. So no 150kbps for MP1 through MP4 hybrid modes. And what is MP11, I don't see that mentioned in their paper.

Ya, The MP11 is a weird designation. The Harris guys didn't know why they started calling it that either and I didn't think to ask the iBiquity guys. That mode seems to be a little further down the road so I didn't put much thought into it.

I'd like to add one more positive use for conditional access: public radio.

The only thing worse than listening to a pr station during a pledge drive is listening to that station after you've already contributed!

Those listeners that "subscribe" to the station could then tune out the begging during those periods. Everyone else would still have free radio as usual.

That's not a bad idea you have there!
But I would still prefer all free radio!