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Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) - Page 53

post #1561 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

A CIE chart doesn't show dE values. All it shows is a rough visual indication of hue and saturation errors.

That's what I thought. Was was referred in post #1555?

thx

bob
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post #1562 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:09am
Thanks Tom, and I do like the AVS disc pattern for Contrast and Brightness.

So, if I feel there is some crush/detail loss at 2.33, then I should set brightness properly and reduce the gamma slider(-3 to -2 or -1) to get closer to a 2.2 curve?
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post #1563 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I want to comment on this because it has come up before. As I tried to make clear in the original post, the 2.2 advice for setting brightness should only be used as a way making a more precise adjustment to the one you have already made visually using a pluge pattern. In fact, the AVSHD has a kind of pluge pattern for setting brightness that is so precise that no further aid is necessary.

.

Tom

Where on the disc is that?


thx

bob
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post #1564 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:10am
Check the AVS709 thread and download and burn it.
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post #1565 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

That's what I thought. Was was referred in post #1555?

The dE value of a color is a more accurate and comprehensive way of determining its accuracy than its position on a CIE chart.
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post #1566 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Thanks Tom, and I do like the AVS disc pattern for Contrast and Brightness.

So, if I feel there is some crush/detail loss at 2.33, then I should set brightness properly and reduce the gamma slider(-3 to -2 or -1) to get closer to a 2.2 curve?

Any gamma response between 2.2 and 2.35 is fine. Try to get it as linear within that range as possible.
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post #1567 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The dE value of a color is a more accurate and comprehensive way of determining its accuracy than its position on a CIE chart.

When adjusting Tint/Cyan, using your method, I use the dE level too. On the 21% Red vs White, would the dE value be best for this too, or just trying to hit the 21% number?
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post #1568 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

*) I have tried both Gamma 2.25 and 2.33, using the Gamma slider on the tv, and feel 2.33 loses a little bit of detail (appears to crush a bit). It also is not close to the 2.2 gamma at 10% Tom recommends.

Although he takes some pains to clarify this in the first post as well as here and elsewhere I think it's time to modify item 4.
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post #1569 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:39am
Its looking like I should reset user settings, adjust bright and contrast, tighten up grayscale, then check the gamma slider starting at 0, and see which setting gives me the flattest line between 2.2 and 2.3. Then go back and check the other settings.
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post #1570 of 1810
3/8/10 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Check the AVS709 thread and download and burn it.

I have it. Wondered what pattern Tom was referring to?


thx

bob
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post #1571 of 1810
3/8/10 at 8:21am
I assumed it was the standard brightness pattern where you want bars 17 and higher showing and 16 and below off.
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post #1572 of 1810
3/8/10 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

When adjusting Tint/Cyan, using your method, I use the dE level too. On the 21% Red vs White, would the dE value be best for this too, or just trying to hit the 21% number?

dE is a comprehensive method for grading color difference. 21%-of-white is simply a straightforward way to set the brightness of red correctly. Since the Color control has the biggest effect on color brightness (within a reasonable range of adjustment), it's a good way to adjust the Color control.
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post #1573 of 1810
3/8/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
The dE value of a color is a more accurate and comprehensive way of determining its accuracy than its position on a CIE chart.
Tom

Can you look at this reading and tell me why Magenta's de is 28, even though it looks closer than yellow that has a de of 8.9?

This is from a Pio PRO-101FD.

thx

bob

 

greenminus15cms.zip 0.84375k . file
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post #1574 of 1810
3/8/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhuffman View Post

de is a comprehensive method for grading color difference. 21%-of-white is simply a straightforward way to set the brightness of red correctly. Since the color control has the biggest effect on color brightness (within a reasonable range of adjustment), it's a good way to adjust the color control.


10-4.
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post #1575 of 1810
3/8/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

A CIE chart doesn't show dE values. All it shows is a rough visual indication of hue and saturation errors.

Using, HCFR, when I hover my mouse over a reading on the CIE chart, It gives me a de reading. Am I missing something?


thx

bob
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post #1576 of 1810
3/8/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I assumed it was the standard brightness pattern where you want bars 17 and higher showing and 16 and below off.

I have trouble with that pattern

bob
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post #1577 of 1810
3/8/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

I have trouble with that pattern

bob

??
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post #1578 of 1810
3/8/10 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

??

hard to distinguish the difference in the flashing bars. I think there are better pluge patterns.


bob
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post #1579 of 1810
3/8/10 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Using, HCFR, when I hover my mouse over a reading on the CIE chart, It gives me a de reading. Am I missing something?

No, that's just something HCFR provides. It is not part of the CIE chart itself.
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post #1580 of 1810
3/8/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

hard to distinguish the difference in the flashing bars.

That's because you have an Elite monitor (or it's too bright for proper calibration) -- although they might reduce the brightness of the labels in the next version which is also a problem for Kuro monitors in a light controlled environment.
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post #1581 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:04pm
If you guys have HCFR, can you check mile file above (#1573) and see why the magenta Delta E is so high compared to where it is on the chart and compared to the other colors?


thx

bob
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post #1582 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

If you guys have HCFR

There's a thread for C-HCFR reports/advice.
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post #1583 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

There's a thread for C-HCFR reports/advice.

Done, but I thought this was CMS related and that most people here used or were familiar with HCFR.

thx

bob
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post #1584 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Can you look at this reading and tell me why Magenta's de is 28, even though it looks closer than yellow that has a de of 8.9?

This is from a Pio PRO-101FD.

I don't know what you are looking at.
LL
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post #1585 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I don't know what you are looking at.

Using HCFR, I am looking at the Delta E readings for the pri/sec. colors. You can check it in the measurements window under primaries and secondaries or you can hover the mouse over the reading on the CIE chart. Magenta DE is 28 and looks to be fairly close on the chart where it should be. Other colors are much closer (Delta E) Sorry if I'm not being clear enough.

bob
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post #1586 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:56pm
What Tom's saying is that when we open your file, the dE for the Magenta primary is 7.4, not 28, whether you look at it in the measurements window or hover of the Magenta in the CIE chart.
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post #1587 of 1810
3/8/10 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Done, but I thought this was CMS related and that most people here used or were familiar with HCFR.

thx

bob

I've replied to your post in the ColorHCFR thread. It appears magenta is 7.1% too dim relative to the target luminance.
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post #1588 of 1810
3/8/10 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by glaufman View Post
What Tom's saying is that when we open your file, the dE for the Magenta primary is 7.4, not 28, whether you look at it in the measurements window or hover of the Magenta in the CIE chart.
I must be having a twilight zone day, then

It says DE 28 when I open it. I'll post again after i just confirmed that.

I did get your response on the other thread, Plasma. Thanks

bob

 

greenminus15cms.zip 0.84375k . file
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post #1589 of 1810
3/8/10 at 2:55pm
Check what you have set as your references.
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post #1590 of 1810
3/8/10 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by glaufman View Post

Check what you have set as your references.

REC 709.


thx

bob
LL
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