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NAD M55 vs. Denon 3930ci???

post #1 of 16
5/28/07 at 9:02pm
Thread Starter 
For pure sound quality and ergonomics, what player would be the best bet???
I could save 2 or 3 hundred and go Denon with most likey better ergonomics, from a few short comings I read about the M55 needing the OSD for a few music format functions and no indication of what is playing as far as 2.1or 5.1...

But does the 3930ci beat the M55 in overall audio and how is its redbook???

OR does the NAD beat it overall and worth the few extra bux???

Any recommendations are appreciated
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post #2 of 16
5/30/07 at 5:08am
The NAD is the best Redbook player of all the universal players.

It is not as good as separate CD transports/outboard DACs in that price range.
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post #3 of 16
5/30/07 at 6:37am
Thread Starter 
I have an out board DAC, the Lucid DA2496. So I could use its with the digital out of the M55 and possibly improve red book even more!

How does anyone feel about the operational factors of the M55? any bothersome quirks?
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post #4 of 16
5/30/07 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriggy View Post

does the 3930ci beat the M55 in overall audio and how is its redbook??? OR does the NAD beat it overall and worth the few extra bux???

I've been using a new DVD-3930CI now going on three or four months now, it's an un-believeably nice sounding player for, both, redbook and multi-channel/hi-resolution formats (SACD, DVD-A, etc.,...). It has discrete (or separate) 2ch and 5.1ch circuitry. Moreover, the addition of world-class video playback capability make this unit even more worth going for.

I can't compare the M55 as I've never test-listened to one. But I am definitely a fan of the M15/M25 pre-pro/amp combo (some of the best for the price).
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post #5 of 16
5/30/07 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriggy View Post

I have an out board DAC, the Lucid DA2496. So I could use its with the digital out of the M55 and possibly improve red book even more!

If you're going to use an outboard DAC, then you could use a Sony Discman as source... it won't make a lick of difference in the end sound.

Beyond that, the notice of "improving" the sound... most people want to reproduce it, not change it.
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post #6 of 16
5/31/07 at 8:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


If you're going to use an outboard DAC, then you could use a Sony Discman as source... it won't make a lick of difference in the end sound.

Yea, realized that after I said it...

Quote:


Beyond that, the notice of "improving" the sound... most people want to reproduce it, not change it.

Well now you're just picking apart my words... Getting closer to that reproduction would be an improvement yes?
I do believe alot of us are here to "improve" the sound coming from our speakers. Making the use of the word "improve" a valid one...

It all good though

I love my DAC! as it greatly improved the SQ coming from my Squeeze Box.
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post #7 of 16
5/31/07 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriggy View Post

YGetting closer to that reproduction would be an improvement yes?
I do believe alot of us are here to "improve" the sound coming from our speakers. Making the use of the word "improve" a valid one...

My argument would be the notion that you can somehow be closer to or further away from the CD "reproduction." DAC conversion is a science, not an art. There's a stream of 1's and 0's that absolutely dictate the invariable reconstruction of a waveform. Unless the DAC is broken, the output waveform will be the same coming from a $40 discman as it is from a $4000 outboard DAC.

Have a look here for an ABX of the highly-regarded and fairly pricey DAC-1 against a plain-jane Pioneer DVD player. Conclusions are the same as any such ABX... nobody could tell the difference under double-blind conditions.

Or here for an ABX of a $130 discman vs. a $2400 high-end cd player. Again, once you strip away the magic bias of audiophiles by blinding the comparisons, the sound cannot be differentiated.

Things to ponder as you're poised to spend that kind of money ...
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post #8 of 16
6/12/07 at 5:57am
We're talking about SACD playback between the two players, right? My understanding is that the DACs are critical to converting from SACD digital (1s and 0s) to analog for output via the analog audio outputs on the player.

marcus
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post #9 of 16
6/12/07 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post

We're talking about SACD playback between the two players, right? My understanding is that the DACs are critical to converting from SACD digital (1s and 0s) to analog for output via the analog audio outputs on the player.

Of course they're critical because without a DAC you don't get sound. But the conversion from 1's and 0's is done the same by any DAC.
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post #10 of 16
6/13/07 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Spy View Post

The NAD is the best Redbook player of all the universal players.

It is not as good as separate CD transports/outboard DACs in that price range.

Which universal players did you compare against?

larry
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post #11 of 16
6/14/07 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr View Post

Of course they're critical because without a DAC you don't get sound. But the conversion from 1's and 0's is done the same by any DAC.


Hummmm...are you suggesting that any SACD player (no matter the price) will produce identical sound (analog output) to a receiver ir pre-amp?
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post #12 of 16
6/14/07 at 6:38am
Heavens no. Often you'll find differences in the output voltages. At the very least, you'd need to find a way to normalize any two players to evaluate differences.
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post #13 of 16
6/14/07 at 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post

Hummmm...are you suggesting that any SACD player (no matter the price) will produce identical sound (analog output) to a receiver ir pre-amp?

I just cited some ABX's that - like all unbiased tests I've ever seen - come to that conclusion. I'm fully aware it offends high-end music sorts to think that anything under $1000 actually can turn a digital stream into an analog waveform properly. Personally, I'm left to wonder what such people think those DACs were programed to do and why they were programed to do it wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Heavens no. Often you'll find differences in the output voltages. At the very least, you'd need to find a way to normalize any two players to evaluate differences.

Which would be how you do an ABX, yes.
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post #14 of 16
6/15/07 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Heavens no. Often you'll find differences in the output voltages. At the very least, you'd need to find a way to normalize any two players to evaluate differences.

Often you won't differences either as there is a standard. Level differences aside there are still measurable differences (albiet small). They are not identical. Whether or not those small differences are audible or not is another story.
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post #15 of 16
6/15/07 at 4:16am
The standard is loosely held to as an inspection of any reviews that provide measurements illustrate. Loosely even to the point of being out of spec. The CD spec is 2 volts for example. Not 2.00 volts. Therefore, one can have units that measure 1.51 and 2.49 and still be considered within spec. Rounding, right? It's not unknown to find values above 3 volts. I'm not arguing the other points, but first level the playing field with respect to how loud it's playing.
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post #16 of 16
6/15/07 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr View Post

My argument would be the notion that you can somehow be closer to or further away from the CD "reproduction." DAC conversion is a science, not an art. There's a stream of 1's and 0's that absolutely dictate the invariable reconstruction of a waveform. Unless the DAC is broken, the output waveform will be the same coming from a $40 discman as it is from a $4000 outboard DAC.

Have a look here for an ABX of the highly-regarded and fairly pricey DAC-1 against a plain-jane Pioneer DVD player. Conclusions are the same as any such ABX... nobody could tell the difference under double-blind conditions.

Or here for an ABX of a $130 discman vs. a $2400 high-end cd player. Again, once you strip away the magic bias of audiophiles by blinding the comparisons, the sound cannot be differentiated.

Things to ponder as you're poised to spend that kind of money ...

Another thing to ponder...many of those "studies" are also based on an N of 1, which is far from any sort of statistically relevant conclusion. Would you make a decision to buy or not buy any piece of audio equip. based on ONE person's assessment of it (unless that ONE person is you)?


Scott
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